Couple of Problems here.. Need some help

Hi Guys and Gals,

I've got a few problems and would need your help, I ride at 60ft:

Problem 1: I can't land way out in the flats!!!!

I've tried to do wat my friends tell me to do.. raise your hip at the wake dun pump down to get the pop.. look farther etc etc.. but nothing seems to work so far..the farthers I've ever been is about 4 feet from the wake!! How do you guys brings it way out???As in wat are you thinking when you jump??

Problem 2: Landed my backroll but.....

ok, I pop, invert, felt my board land on the water.. and then splash... down I go.. It's kinda frustrating.. and my instructor told me to initiate the trick after I've lifted off from the wake, another guy tells me to edge away from the boat so that the wake will do it for ya. So which one should I follow??

thanks for reading this lenghty thread..

sigh....

hey man dont let it get to you....

prob1. to go further... start wider and coast(meaning flatten off your edge and ride on the top of the water with the speed that you have gained.) most important.... wait for the boat to start pulling you back to the wake..and do this for the first 2 or 3 feet of your cut in.

once you know that the boat is pulling you back in lean with your shoulders (and not your butt...major prob for alot of riders.)if you can get your shoulders back further than your butt then you are doing this step right.think about sitting in a chair..(do this while you are reading this post. if you are sitting correctly and leaning back on the legs like your mother told you never to do.... and have your arms in the riding position...which is generally the same as resting on the keyboard...then you will realise that your shoulders are over your further back than your butt... this is the edging position that you want to be in when starting your cut....as you lean further back in your chair (careful on this bit)you tend to want to rock onto yor heelsto go further back...

now imagine this applied to the water but i want you to think of not letting the boats power pull your butt up from the chair. infact you want to rock onto your heels even more. this is called "building your edge" which in turn builds up your speed thus increasing your distance.

cant remember where i read this but
"speed= distance.... edge=height"

so if you can "build" that edge all the way to the wake (and preferablly up the wake and through the top.) then in time the only thing that will limit your distance is the length of your rope.


prob2...take all that i've said into your start of your cut for the backroll...but start your backroll from about five feet outside the sprayline of your boat.
wait for the boat even more than before but add the edge a little more about a foot from the trough off the wake... try to get the board away from the boat by looking over your leading shoulder if you are over rotating and landing on your butt then let your arms out a little "before" leaving the wake... if you are underrotating then pull them in a little before takeoff.

man i hope this helps.... backrolls are one of my favourite and most consistant inverts.

Whoa... Ok I'll try that when I hit the water this weekend!! Thanks man!! Never quite heard it explained this way...

no worries... let me know how you go!

When I was learning back rolls, I was amazed at how soon you can spot your landing by looking over your front shoulder (left for reg/right for goofy). I found that once you get into the habit of looking over your shoulder and spotting the landing, your body almost instictively slows its rotation down for the landing. Ben described it very well with pulling the handle in or letting it out. the closer the handle is to your body when you spin, the faster your rotation is and the opposite is also true.

Good Luck!!!

hey thanks guys!!!

Ya.. I think I got a problem spotting the landing... once I invert, I'm totally disorientated. Gotta work on this!! Will update you guys this weekend!! thanks!!!

Ok guys!! I landed farther out and practised spotting my landing. But I still can't land way out in the flats!!! Hmmm.... Ok do you guys look at the wake or at your landing spot when you jump?? And which factor carries you far out??? Line tension or speed?? Cause my friend claims that it was line tension.. dun really make sense to me...

Still can't land my backroll though... gotta work more on it. I tried edging away from the boat but didn't get enough rotation. Do I have to use my bopdy to give it a little more boost on the rotation??

Thanks!!!

defineatly line tension.... if you can build your line tension it tends to catapult you up as well as out... try hitting the wake perpendicular(90degrees to the boat) if you carry your edge through the wake the boat will pull you forward but your line tension will boost you out!

Mirage, how is the wake size on the boat you're using? A large wake makes the backroll much easier. Add weight to the boat and get the largest wake you can.

Ok thanks Ben! I will try to keep the line tension up when riding next time. Hope to catch bigger air!!

John: For the backroll, I'm riding behind a tige which I think has a pretty good, huge, rampy and hard wake. Wouldn't risk trying one on a samller boat. I thing it's pretty ok. I've completed the rotation, landed but fell.... sigh...

Mirage, are you falling on your butt? You say that you completed the rotation, but how close are you to overrotating? If you are making the full rotation then sticking it should be a matter of trying a few more times. OTOH, if you are not quite getting a full rotation.... You can speed up your rotation by sweeping (hard) the board away from the boat as you go up the wake. That's only a crutch for getting the full rotation and sticking the trick. One that I continue to use alot, especially when the wake is small.

Hi John,

I'm not falling on my butt. I'm falling flat on my face.. which makes this trick sooooooo.. painful for me. My instructor claims I have a problem spotting the landing. How do you guys do it?? do you seek out your landing spot and look at it.. or look further out???

Mirage, I don't really spot anything. If you are falling on your face then it sounds like you are seriously over rotating. If so then you need to slow down your rotation.

Describe what's going on when you throw the trick. Do you have any idea how you are getting far enough around to land on your face? That's another 90 degrees of rotation beyond whats needed to stick the roll.

Hi John,

Well... basically I'll cut in for a normal wake jump. pop.. then I'll initial my rotation...during rotation I try really hard to spot my landing.. but my vision is usually a blur.. I landed firmly on the water. And just when I think I can ride away, I'll fall flat on my face... sigh....wat do you reckon???

you may be bringing your hands or arms around to your oppposite hip on the landing...(causing you to open your chest up to the boat...making you catch a front edge...ouch...

really concentrate on sticking that lead arm to your lead hip on the landing...and lean against the rope and continue edging out on the landing.

its only a matter of time...stick with it.... i'm going for a set right now!!!!

I agree with Ben. If you are face planting it is probably because you are under rotating a back roll to revert. Make sure that you land with the handle at your front hip. It may help to think of pushing the handle out towards the flats as you are finishing your rotation. Trampoline practice is a great way to get used to spotting your landing.
Good Luck!!!

Whoa!!! Okok.. shall try that!! thanks guys!!!

Mirage,
Sounds like to me that you are trying to edge too hard when you get to the top of the wake. Make sure that you maintain the same edge on the approach as you do for the ramp. A roll isnt about the power, its taking a wake to wake jump and just letting your board follow the wake up. Remeber as your in the air to to pull the handle to your front hip, to ensure you land with the correct foot foward. However if you take off from the wake properly then you wont have to do anything but hang onto the handle. I have found the biggest mistake people make on a backroll is trying to force it. Dont, its a smooth transistion from the water to the wake to the air and down again.

Man... I wish I read your post sooner Ryan... Just had a bad crash (was trying to throw it too hard).. ok I will try to get it right the next time round.. thanks man!!

Backrolls should throw you- not your throwing the roll. The ket is to stay on edge all the way up and through the top of the wake. DON'T start too far out as you end up building too much speed and you'll lay off your edge- I did that for a month! I like to set up about 5-6 feet outside the wash and edge back to the wake- looking toward the part of the wake that I'll go in front of - sort of like you're looking away from the boat. Also, assuming you're "regular stance", turn your chin toward your left shoulder as you initiate the trick and stay there!! You'll see the landing much better and it helps you initiate the rotation. Keep your arms bent slightly and think about landing on your heels. As Ryan said, you don't have to force this trick - if you edge all the way up the trick will throw you- it's cool.

Ok thanks! will5150!!! will try it on sunday!! dying for a ride now... so i er.. just let the trick flow by itself!!! hope i won't crash....

Sometimes letting go with the back hand will help keep the board aimed the right direction as you land. With 2 hands on, if you tighten up your arms (like you are hanging on for a roller coaster ride) you tend to pull yourself out of position which can result in a pretty nasty faceplant. Don't let go with the back hand until you start the rotation.

Nearly died that day... letting go back hand??? hmmm... ok.. I'll try that the next round.. now I nurse my injuries first.. thanks Greg!

I was lucky to get coached by a pro two days ago and today I landed it properly. This is my two cents: 1) You don't need huge edge for this trick. The all important thing is to stay on edge. 2) Don't edge out too far - about 12 feet should be enough. Keep things slow and under control. You don't want to be really fast at your take off. Just set a rather slow, but progressive edge! 3) Correct body positioning is a key factor. Don't crouch low as you edge in, but stand tall through the whole trick. 4) Take off from the TOP of the wake 5) First take off with a clean pop (by standing tall), then initiate the flip by looking over your lead shoulder. 6) It helps if you let go with your back hand when you're on your way down. 7) When doing the trick, think about landing in an edging position (heelside edge) 8) If you do all this correctly, you should get insane pop - without really using a lot of force when edging in. It's all about proper technique.

Hope this helps!