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Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-22-2017, 8:02 AM Reply   
If at all possible it would be nice to see a thread where someone can try to defend the Tax plan without resorting to Lib-Tard/Rube-publican Meme's.

I can't see how anyone but a greedy billionaire can be in favor of this.
Removing the $250 teacher supplies deduction from all teachers in america is offset by the Estate Tax that Betty Devos' familly won't have to pay seems morally wrong to me. (one of many examples of how terrible this is)

The Deficit will go up by Trillions and the middle class and poor pay more so rich people can pay less.
Who is in favor of this that isn't worth over $5 million?
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       11-22-2017, 10:44 AM Reply   
Getting rid of the $250 deduction for teachers is a slap in the face. The fact that it is only $250 sucks anyway as my wife spends at least 750 a year if not more on her classroom, puts in more hours (by far) than i do at work and comes home with a paycheck that is very mediocre (we live in a rural community).
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-22-2017, 12:43 PM Reply   
The teacher deduction is a horrible decision, as is the removal of the deduction for grad students that teach. No one but trust fund babies will be able to get advanced degrees and we can continue to hand advances in STEM and other areas to India and China.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-22-2017, 12:54 PM Reply   
How can they sell this as middle class tax relief? Repealing the estate tax is only for those with $5M+ estates. This is clearly an effort to pay back the republican donors....check that, republican OWNERS.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-22-2017, 1:33 PM Reply   
Yes, the liberals (or at least what wakeworld calls liberal) on this site can list a billion things wrong with the tax cut.
I want to know how a Trump supporter justifies this.
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-22-2017, 1:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
How can they sell this as middle class tax relief? Repealing the estate tax is only for those with $5M+ estates. This is clearly an effort to pay back the republican donors....check that, republican OWNERS.
How long has it been at 5M? The republican have been touting the estate tax as one that hurts everyone and everyone will get relief once it is gone. I would like to know when that law was implemented because they were definitely looking out for the middle class! Now, instead of getting rid of it because it is obviously a tax on the rich, they should just be able to move it up to 6M if it ever effected the middle class.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-22-2017, 2:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
How long has it been at 5M? The republican have been touting the estate tax as one that hurts everyone and everyone will get relief once it is gone. I would like to know when that law was implemented because they were definitely looking out for the middle class! Now, instead of getting rid of it because it is obviously a tax on the rich, they should just be able to move it up to 6M if it ever effected the middle class.
Shoot, move it to $25M.

Are we really worried about those who die with estates greater than $25M suffering under the boot of an oppressive government?

Remember, while yes the estate is taxed, the beneficiary to whom the estate is distributed gets a stepped up date of death tax basis in the assets, so there are no capital gains on the estate that are attributable to the period prior to death.

If you get rid of estate tax, it means that rich folks won't sell their assets as they approach death and incur the capital gain, they'll just croak and pass along the assets to the next gen without any gain.

As a middle ground I'd be down with only applying the long term capital gains rate to middle-ground ginormous estates (say 25-100M).
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-22-2017, 2:38 PM Reply   
Also, correct me if Iím wrong but much like tax brackets it is progressive and it only taxes actual assets above 5 mil; the first 5mil is not taxed at all
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-22-2017, 3:05 PM Reply   
from the IRS website.
Most relatively simple estates (cash, publicly traded securities, small amounts of other easily valued assets, and no special deductions or elections, or jointly held property) do not require the filing of an estate tax return. A filing is required for estates with combined gross assets and prior taxable gifts exceeding $1,500,000 in 2004 - 2005; $2,000,000 in 2006 - 2008; $3,500,000 for decedents dying in 2009; and $5,000,000 or more for decedent's dying in 2010 and 2011 (note: there are special rules for decedents dying in 2010); $5,120,000 in 2012, $5,250,000 in 2013, $5,340,000 in 2014, $5,430,000 in 2015, $5,450,000 in 2016, $5,490,000 in 2017, and $5,600,000 in 2018.

From Wikipedia...effects highest .02%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate..._United_States

Correct first $5M is protected for an individual, for married couples its $10M.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-22-2017, 5:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Also, correct me if Iím wrong but much like tax brackets it is progressive and it only taxes actual assets above 5 mil; the first 5mil is not taxed at all
zactly.

Quote:
Correct first $5M is protected for an individual, for married couples its $10M.
zactly.

Dunno about WW members, but among the general population, I think most people feel that a marital estate of $10M is rich.
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-23-2017, 4:03 PM Reply   
Lol this thread is useless idk why you started it in the first place nobody really cares about it but you the tax plan is not gonna make you homeless so stop crying about it like a 3 year old. There are far more important things to worry about rn like not getting nuked by rocket man etc pretty pathetic to complain about the tax plan imo.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       11-23-2017, 5:33 PM Reply   
some many more important things right Alex? Like bathroom privileges, protecting the sanctity of marriage, abortion, gun rights.. the entire libreral agenda. With all these amazing domestic topics to discuss (don't get me started on Hillary!) why would we EVER even think about discussing a new tax plan. Just crazy talk.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-23-2017, 6:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
Lol this thread is useless idk why you started it in the first place nobody really cares about it but you the tax plan is not gonna make you homeless so stop crying about it like a 3 year old. There are far more important things to worry about rn like not getting nuked by rocket man etc pretty pathetic to complain about the tax plan imo.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-23-2017, 8:28 PM Reply   
#1 Most important issue is tax policy IMO. Long term this sets the stability for the society. Get it wrong and the gap between rich and poor blows out and the whole system collapses.
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-23-2017, 10:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
#1 Most important issue is tax policy IMO. Long term this sets the stability for the society. Get it wrong and the gap between rich and poor blows out and the whole system collapses.
LMAO whole system collapses hahaha yeah sure......................
You fool do you know how many people it has to go through before it gets passed pretty sure they wouldn't pass a tax policy that would make US collapse you imbecile.

Last edited by wakeslash; 11-23-2017 at 10:40 PM.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       11-24-2017, 5:26 AM Reply   
it's time to give up on you.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-24-2017, 7:34 AM Reply   
Yeah Alex you are wrong, this matters.

I'm on the fence on this. On one hand it seems this will lower my taxes now and in the foreseeable future. I have other reasons to believe it will help my business.

On the other hand I don't have multiple children or live in a state with really high state and local taxes. Some people on this forum will pay more taxes. So at this point I'm 50/50.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-24-2017, 9:16 AM Reply   
one more thing. If you claim a lot of deductions then this probably isn't good for you. If we are going to go that route and get rid of all the deductions (imo a good thing) then we need to further reduce the individual tax rate
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2017, 9:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
LMAO whole system collapses hahaha yeah sure......................
I am talking long term 15-25 years. If you don't take resources from the top and reinvest it at the bottom the inequality gets too much for the poor to handle and they decide is better to tear the system down. It's why you have coups in dictatorships. Peterson talks about it here at 1:30hr
https://youtu.be/6G59zsjM2UI
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-24-2017, 9:53 AM Reply   
Very clearly explained at 1:47
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-24-2017, 8:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Very clearly explained at 1:47
LOL watching paint dry is more entertaining then that vid.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-27-2017, 3:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
#1 Most important issue is tax policy IMO. Long term this sets the stability for the society. Get it wrong and the gap between rich and poor blows out and the whole system collapses.
The gap between rich and poor is already huge and getting bigger. If the brilliant tax plan trump is pushing were to pass....its over for most. Years from now we will remember trump and the republicans passed this "huge tax cut for the middle class". by then it will be too late. They should all be castrated and fired for flat out lying to the American people who put them in office. There SHOULD be a law about telling the truth to americans, If you lie on a bill about what it does, who it benefits, you are out w/ no medical benefits and pension.
The biggest issue I wish someone could explain to me is why the need for 35% to 20% for Biz?
Corps are currently cashed up, loan rates for them are at historic lows (they are not even borrowing), they are buying stock back, paying down debt, execs are being paid more than ever before....What is the need for the biggest "tax cut" in the plan to corps?



wakeslash, isn't it past your bedtime, the adults are talking now. Or, on the upside, you could do as YOU said and think first, then write. Taxes arnt important? Do you pay taxes?
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-27-2017, 6:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
LMAO whole system collapses hahaha yeah sure......................
You fool do you know how many people it has to go through before it gets passed?
Why yes, Yes I do! But the senate Tax Bill never went to committee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-28-2017, 8:48 AM Reply   
So if you make 30k a year you save 3% on either the house or the senate plan. I think the reason for the corporate tax plan is to stimulate corps to stay here and quit buying foreign companies for tax avoidance purposes (then they pay a lower tax rate overseas and write it off here). So have lawmakers on both sides of the isle not proposed cutting the corporate tax rate? This seems kinda easy to understand. If anything companies are essentially customers of the countries they pay taxes to. When someone has a better product at a better price a consumer tends to go there. Now the other school of thought is to impose regulations to somehow lock companies into a terminal marriage with the us government.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-28-2017, 8:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
The gap between rich and poor is already huge and getting bigger. If the brilliant tax plan trump is pushing were to pass....its over for most. Years from now we will remember trump and the republicans passed this "huge tax cut for the middle class". by then it will be too late. They should all be castrated and fired for flat out lying to the American people who put them in office. There SHOULD be a law about telling the truth to americans, If you lie on a bill about what it does, who it benefits, you are out w/ no medical benefits and pension.
The biggest issue I wish someone could explain to me is why the need for 35% to 20% for Biz?
Corps are currently cashed up, loan rates for them are at historic lows (they are not even borrowing), they are buying stock back, paying down debt, execs are being paid more than ever before....What is the need for the biggest "tax cut" in the plan to corps?

wakeslash, isn't it past your bedtime, the adults are talking now. Or, on the upside, you could do as YOU said and think first, then write. Taxes arnt important? Do you pay taxes?
he's had his ass handed to him a few times, but still doesn't get it.

agree, tax bill doesn't do a lot for the average american. Taking away homeowner interest deduction is a big mistake IMO. Real estate is about the only way the average american can grow their wealth (they spend every dime they earn then spend more on unsecured debt) yet we just took away a big reason to invest in it.

Estate tax: was already 2% issue, now its 1%.

Agree corp tax rate isn't a problem, many corps pay less than 5% effective rate. Stock buy backs, cash flush and plenty of capital available. GE did say they would hire more people if corp tax wasn't so high, but they're about the only one. GE stock down 42% YTD

the part they didn't connect: Trump talking about penalizing/adding tariffs to companies that produce abroad, yet no mention of it, from what I can tell (no I haven't read the proposed bill) with this tax plan. Would seem like a great time to enforce all the chatter from the pulpit about foreign trade balances and US companies producing elsewhere.

need some "truth in legislation" measures. If they haven't read the bill or said something contrary to what's in it, they shouldn't be able to vote on it or anything related to it.

Last edited by denverd1; 11-28-2017 at 9:01 AM.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-28-2017, 8:59 AM Reply   
Yeah it's definitely not perfect.. but what is these days
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-28-2017, 11:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
Taking away homeowner interest deduction is a big mistake IMO. Real estate is about the only way the average american can grow their wealth (they spend every dime they earn then spend more on unsecured debt) yet we just took away a big reason to invest in it.
Don't really think it's a mistake. The mortgage deduction is just another govt program subverting the free market. It wasn't ever necessary. But unfortunately all the people who bought homes budgeting for a deduction and likely paying a higher price because of it would get the short end of the stick.

All giving a mortgage deduction does is drive up the price of homes. It's an injection of cash by the govt into the market and ultimately accomplishes nothing but pushing prices higher. The reason for investing in a home doesn't go away by eliminating the deduction.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-28-2017, 1:52 PM Reply   
So you agree that the bill does nothing for the average American...
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-28-2017, 2:45 PM Reply   
What do you mean, doesn't the average American own a Learjet? Or is it "Leer"jet now? Hard to keep up.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-28-2017, 3:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
So you agree that the bill does nothing for the average American...
Nothing that I'm aware of.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-28-2017, 4:50 PM Reply   
Fox news toasted Steve Mnuchin on the tax plan.
https://crooksandliars.com/2017/11/f...e-mnuchin-over
Old     (Reddog78)      Join Date: Mar 2017       11-28-2017, 5:37 PM Reply   
That clown Alex said taxes don't matter!! I wanna slap his ass...
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-29-2017, 7:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog78 View Post
That clown Alex said taxes don't matter!! I wanna slap his ass...
you think that fool pays taxes??? he stills on the t|t !
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-29-2017, 11:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog78 View Post
That clown Alex said taxes don't matter!! I wanna slap his ass...
I said whining about the tax plan doesnt change anything you idiot.
Old     (Reddog78)      Join Date: Mar 2017       11-29-2017, 11:20 AM Reply   
You said nobody cares. Mf'er I CARE! I care a whole bunch come talk with men when you get off your moms *** you ****.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-29-2017, 3:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
I said whining about the tax plan doesnt change anything you idiot.
This is a discussion forum. We are discussing the proposed tax plan, finding what it does, who it benefits, who it penalizes, who likes it, why, who dislikes it, why.....
The national approval rating on the plan is roughly 16%. how can they pass a massive tax overhaul that 84% of the public dislike?

I read that it includes creative deductions for golf course owners but eliminates the $350 deduction for teachers to buy supplies for students. Golf course owners...hmmmm. Middle class tax relief at its best. Drain the swamp.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...f-course-break
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-30-2017, 11:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
I said whining about the tax plan doesnt change anything you idiot.
HaHaHa, Reading erics comments remind me of a special Olympic event I went to where the autistic kids and the down syndrome children were calling each other names. The autistic kids were laughing and pointing at the down syndrome kids and yelling at them, "your retarded"! Then, the down syndrome kids would yell back at the autistic kids "your stupid"!
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-30-2017, 11:09 AM Reply   
Anyways, looks like the bill is going to pass the Senate, that's why the stock market popped today. Didn't really know why Johnson was against it at first anyways, I'm sure he got some personal stuff through for his constituents. So, now, when the stocks stop going up, the market will have the passing of the Tax reform built into them and now, if it does not pass the market will go down, just like some republicans have threatened.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-30-2017, 11:15 AM Reply   
137 economists have signed a letter in support of the GOP tax plan. It's been needed for years but both sides make everything a partisan pissing match hoping to score political points. Like everything in life, there's gonna winners & there's gonna be losers, some will be happy some won't.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/137-...ommentary.html
Old     (john)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-30-2017, 12:19 PM Reply   
What is the definition of "middle class"? I know it's politico-speak used because surveys regularly show that about half of all Americans identify themselves as middle-class, but what is the actual annual income range used by government agencies when they refer to the impact of the tax changes on middle-class?
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-30-2017, 12:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by john View Post
What is the definition of "middle class"? I know it's politico-speak used because surveys regularly show that about half of all Americans identify themselves as middle-class, but what is the actual annual income range used by government agencies when they refer to the impact of the tax changes on middle-class?
Obama defined it as those making under $250k a year.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-30-2017, 12:58 PM Reply   
^^^they don't define it. That's how they create the illusion.@

@ racer, True, there will be winners and losers, it doesn't need to be so one sided. The losers shouldn't be the poor or middle class getting a tax hike. Corporations getting a 15% reduction equaling Billions and average americans paying that shortage plus increasing the debt substantially. Arnt Repubs supposed to be the debt hawks? They are selling as "middle class tax cut" more truthfully its all about a corporate cut. Corps are cashed up now, stock market at news highs TODAY. Corps do not actually pay anywhere close to 35%. Its slight of hand to benefit the 1%. And it wont help trump, ask him. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...x-plan-n825066
He makes it partisan.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-01-2017, 11:28 AM Reply   
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...-plan-analysis
https://slate.com/business/2017/11/s...-tax-plan.html

So the repubs are ready to vote on a tax plan I would have to guess 75% don't even know whats in it. Treasury depts. job is to run the numbers to help educate on how the whole thing works and "trickles down". Trumps Treasury sec has been telling us (several times) that he has "over 100 people working on it". Except no one ever was. Of course trump appoints another liar. Remember the promise, "only the best"...
So these repub senators are ready to pass this and the treasury doesn't even know whats in it. I am confident Trump understands very little about the his tax plan. Brilliant planning by trump and company, nice accomplishment after 7+ years of planning. 16% of the country approves, and they are ready to vote. I see a big backfire in the future.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-01-2017, 12:07 PM Reply   
[QUOTE] Obama defined it as those making under $250k a year. [QUOTE]

He was wrong. Not that I see $250K as RICH...Middle class should be making enough $$ to afford a median house, an average car/truck or 2, ability to pay your typical bills, utilities, taxes, take a reasonable vacation. Even in EXPENSIVE SoCal this can be accomplished for a family of 4 for $125K and less. Plenty do it with under $100K.
What would be your def?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-01-2017, 4:55 PM Reply   
doh
Attached Images
 
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-04-2017, 12:38 PM Reply   
Repub Corker from tenn. is the only one that didn't vote for it, every other repub voted for it, I'm sure most not even knowing what was in it or what it means. Congrats Senate repubs on a job secretly done with zero input from anyone not a republican senator. Your 16% and donors are very proud.
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-06-2017, 1:41 PM Reply   
It's hard to watch the whole thing. Those facts can be so annoying to congressmen.

Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-06-2017, 4:02 PM Reply   
thank you. that was inspirational.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-06-2017, 5:26 PM Reply   
Looks like the rebound made a $300 billion mistake. Oops.

https://slate.com/business/2017/12/s...-tax-bill.html
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       12-12-2017, 10:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettw View Post
It's hard to watch the whole thing. Those facts can be so annoying to congressmen.

HATE (not a word I often use) MSM. Whatever happened to reporting the damn news and letting your guests offer their side?

I get it, these outlets often lean left, but the guy couldn't even finish answering a question without those 2 boobs interrupting him with more BS.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-12-2017, 10:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
HATE (not a word I often use) MSM. Whatever happened to reporting the damn news and letting your guests offer their side?

I get it, these outlets often lean left, but the guy couldn't even finish answering a question without those 2 boobs interrupting him with more BS.
Fox News does the same stuff pal. But I guess since they aren't MSM, it's okay.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-12-2017, 12:38 PM Reply   
They did interrupt him...but still he couldn't logically defend the tax plan.
The #s i have seen 84% of americans don't like it yet he stated "American people want us to do this".
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-12-2017, 12:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
I get it, these outlets often lean left, but the guy couldn't even finish answering a question without those 2 boobs interrupting him with more BS.
The 2 boobs probably kept interrupting the other boob because when the 2 boobs asked him a question the other boob just went off and started talking about other stuff.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-12-2017, 10:42 PM Reply   
I'm right there with you Nacho. My favorite elliptical machine at the gym is right in front of the tv that airs msnbc. It's a tough thing to watch. Luckly I have my trusty showbox app on my phone to keep me from barfing.....
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-13-2017, 5:34 AM Reply   
curious -- how do you guys feel about the PBS news hour?

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