SANGER, SUPREME, CENTURIAN

I know this is a hard question to ask i am ready to buy a centurian, but i have been up and down, please fill me in before i have the dealers calling me and asking what i think.

I had a buddy who had a Ski Supreme and it was reliable for him' however another buddy had a Sanger and the boat was flawless for him. IMO one of the best valued boats out there.

dg

Disclaimer: I've owned three Sangers. Answer out of those three, Sanger.

(Message edited by wake_upppp on February 20, 2007)

Travis,
I own a Sanger v215 2006 and it is awsome,I agree with Sparky 100% great boat for the money .Stick with Sanger.

I am on my second Centurion. No issues at all. test drive them all and go with a good dealer.

I have owned a Supreme, and now a Sanger, and have been in 3 Centurians. My Supreme was fine, and the guys who have Centurians are happy with them. No disrespect to anybody who has a Supreme, or Centurian. For me, it would be a no brianer, Sanger hands down. I hope you have demoed, to help make your decision

Demo and ride behind all three.

I love my Sanger and have had zero problems with it. Best value out there in my opinion.

Love my Supreme V208. Take Walt's advice, demo all three.

I have a Sanger V215, love it. Demo, buy whats right for you. You will get the best value out of the Sanger though.

SANGER V215...
Oh did I say that out loud..

Really thats like asking if you like blond or brunettes or both, I say just take them out for a ride then u decide.

You're getting two types of answers if it wasn't obvious.

Supreme and Centurian owners are saying test ride them all and go with a good Dealer. Sounds like a you could find a better boat.

The Sanger owners are all saying this is THE BEST BOAT for the money. (Translation: I'm not spending 80K on a boat because of a name, I can get all of the top features at a reasonable price in a quality boat from Sanger.) And they are going to buy another Sanger when that time comes.

DISCLAIMER: I'm a Sanger V230 owner. I love my boat, and I will buy another in the future. I get tons of complements from people who ride in, behind, and even walking by on the dock every time I have her out.

Just Ride!

I love my Supreme and don't think you can find a better boat for the money. I also love my Mercedes but that doesn't mean it is the perfect car for everyone. I looked at Sanger, Tige, Centurion, Calabria, MB Sports, and Supreme before making my decision. I think all the major brands of boats have their pro's and con's I'm not going to tell someone to buy a supreme because I own one. Do some research, drive some demos, make an informed decision and get a boat that fits your needs.

Sounds like you already made up your mind on the Centurion, don't change it based on some comments from a forum. Change it cause YOU feel one is better than the other to YOU!

---

quote:

Supreme and Centurian owners are saying test ride them all and go with a good Dealer.

---

As a Sanger owner I'm also suggesting you try all three. Yes I like my Sanger but that doesn't mean Travis will.

DEMO DEMO DEMO !

remember you are the one going to be making the payments, NOT any of us!

There is a reason the common thing everybody is telling you....DEMO....DEMO....DEMO!!!

You wouldn't buy a ride without taking it for a drive it like you stole it spin would U?

"Supreme and Centurian owners are saying test ride them all and go with a good Dealer."

Best advice regardless of the boats being considered.


When a person tells you to demo the boats they are not telling you you could find a better product!

Kevin, I could not agree more. I have a Supreme, but I would tell anyone to take a look at their needs and demo their boat options and make the choice that best fits their needs. That doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend a Supreme.

For someone has sold these boats - the Sanger is a no brainer. Without the demo, get in the Sanger and Supreme on the lot (Centurions are dressed up Supremes like Reinell and Bluewater boats are the same). Supreme has the worst floor makeup. They are soft, flexible and the carpet is cheap. The Sanger floors are sturdy. Although we had problems with the carpet not being completely glued down under the dash on Sangers, it is a quick fix. These days with the prices being so close, the Sanger has a better resale value, IMO. They also have limited production.

Buuuuuut, to each his own.

lets make a deal!!
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/402863.html?1170043989

Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt the same company own all three boats names? I know Centurian and Supreme are owned by the same company just not sure about Sanger.

Kal Kustom Owns Supreme they are the west cost distributor for Centurion, and the West coast distributor for Sanger. To make it a bit more confusing Fineline The owner of Centurion builds Supreme for Kal Kustom the owner of Supreme

(Message edited by krbaugh on February 23, 2007)

As a Centurion owner, I am saying don't buy a Centurion.
Tim

Well put Kevin, now try saying that ten times fast.

why are you saying not to buy a centurion?

I am a Centurion owner and I say buy one

Finding a good boat dealer is like finding Cindy Crawford naked in your boat...
Buy a Sanger you won't need a good dealer.
Just to be clear: don't put "good" and "boat dealer" in the same sentence.
You will always get treated fine until they sell you the boat...then you can expect to wait to ever get any service again. Dealers are not in the business of helping you solve a problem with your boat, get it serviced in a timely manner or anything else they are there to sell boats.

(Message edited by bftskir on February 23, 2007)

You know all three of these brands use Mercury engines and walter v-drives and half the same components. If you take care of any of them you shouldn't need the dealer that often.

But Sanger is made very different from Supreme, and Centurian

Craig, let's take off the ownership goggles for a moment, almost any boat built today is going to be solid regardless of the manufacturing methods, I'm not saying any brand is better and not looking to bash anyone's boat at all, I just stated that they use the same engines and a lot of the same components.
It always seems the Sanger owner's on WW insist that there boat's are somehow the best of the price point boats and perhaps they are but that's a matter of personal opinion, to be honest I almost bought a Sanger V215 except I didn't like the shallower freeboard of the Sangers, just my opinion. I looked under the dash, sidewells, and everywhere in all of these boats, and the fit and finish of all three of the brands in this thread were very similar.
I'd just like to say I'm not bashing any boats here, I like all three (Sanger, Supreme, Centurion) and I try not to be biased when I give advise on WW...nuff said

So true ANDYMAC, so true. Maybe not 100% of dealers, but darn close. I would choose a certified independant shop with a solid reputation before any dealer for service.

Steve, take a deep breath. I didnt say one is better than the other, I said Sanger is built different. Which is true. I have visited both factories, as I have owned a Supreme, and now a Sanger. The methods of building the boats are different. I have nothing but good things to say about Supreme. The boat was flawless for me. I was about to buy another (direct drive, to V-drive) but went and looked at Sanger, and felt it was the better boat for me, as you felt yours was the better built for you. Before you get all upset and defensive, read the post a little more.

Here is pic of my old boat, and my new boat.

I own a 2006 Centurion Avalanche and I have Sold them for a living....... BUY THE SANGER!!!!

Craig,
Okay my xanax kicked in and I'm better now ...I have to say that your Sanger looks a lot better than your Supreme.
Now tell me more about the weak floors in the Supreme, I have seen that mentioned in other threads on WW about Supremes and would like to hear more, if anyone else has info on the floors feel free to chime in.

I never had any issues with my floor, or am I aware of any. I'd have to look to see who had that info. I couldnt imagine them being any different that Centurion, considering the hulls are made at the same place...

Fineline builds boats to the manufactures specs.
They have built Tige's , Gekko's and now Ski Supreme they where all built to the manufactures specs.

Sharky, You Own a Centurion and sold them But Recommend Buying a Sanger LOL, Sounds like someone may be Upset with there old employer, Let me Guess you now work for Sanger

Travis bought a 6000ft Donzi. He said Centurion, Sanger and Supreme weren't as nice.
End of thread.

Craig,
Ahhh it was Mike G who said the Supreme floors were weak, I need to send him A PM to get the scoop or perhaps I will start a new thread and get the bashing going.

Kevin, I'm not interested in selling boats not enough money in them for the work.... did it for 5 years and was very successfull.... the dealer I worked for sold both centurion and Sanger they just gave me 3,000.00 off on the centurion or 10% over on the Sanger. screw it went for the centurion.... my mistake!!! the Sanger is a much better built boat hands down buy what you want but if you knew what i knew you would buy the Sanger.... no disrespect intended it just is what it is...

^^^^
Oh my f'ing god....you work at Marine Max last I heard...selling......let's think here.........oh, yeah...Sangers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Marinemax sells Centurions and they just picked up Sanger a few months ago.

Hammer marine is the only dealer that I can think of that sold both at the same time in the nor cal area.

Sharky, no war here, what do you know?

meathead, olld info you need to catch up if you want to play the sarcastic game bro.... Centurion is a production line boat... we all know this and that is fine for mass production... but for the quuality and the price it doesn't hold up to the Sanger... drive them both back to back hell you can hit me up and I will bring my Avalanche out and find a Sanger for you and you tell me... when the Sanger hull comes out of the mold and the top deck come out they shoe box the two together and then they threw screw every 3" and then they fiberglass weld the two halfs together... when the Centurion comes out of the mold they inner lay the topdeck into the hull and then they rivett every 6".... after that the boat goes down a production line and poeple start putting in the peices they are responsible for... by the end of the line you have 100 different people who have worked on the boat... when the Sanger comes out of the mold it goes into 1 bay and 1 guy builds the boat until it is complete... you get alot of care going into the build proccess when you have 1 focused individual working on that product.... not trying to slamm centurion... just talking about the differences and the end result of the build... like I said earlier by what you want, but I'm telling you that you are missing out if you don't consider the Sanger.... there is so much more we could go over between the two boat lines but I'm not interested in selling the boat and some people get too emotional over the boats that they own.... I am going to keep the Avalanche for now but I am thinking about adding a bow thruster so I can turn around in the river...

Sharky, what are you still doing with the avy then?? I gotta give my head a shake when i read posts like yours. "centurion's build process blows compared to sanger, yet i got offered a better deal on the avy even though i know that they aren't near the boat that a sanger is and I still bought the avy. it ain't emotion we're working with, just trying to figure out your stupidity. You make it sound like the 1 dude knows the buyer personally and is doing everything he/she can do to make this boat perfect. as far as i see it, if they are alone for that long, who's to say they aint' putting some secret sauce in places you can't ever know about and laughing every night as they stamp out.

Sharky

Interesting version of how Centurions are built! Since he is either intentionally distorting the way the boats are built or has no idea I will give an accurate description.
I have not been to the CA plant but I have been to the East Coast plant a few times.

The molds come into the gelcoat area they are taped off and sprayed by 2 or 3 gelcoat artists.


3 molds
hull


Deck


Stringers


Then the molds go to the lay-up area here there where 3 or 4 people
That are dedicated to laying up the glass matt and resin that builds up the rest of the molds






After the molds cure they go to then go to the bonding area. The stingers are bonded the hull a molecular level with Plexus this bond becomes stronger than the fiberglass itself.
Holes are then cut in the stingers and are filled with foam.




Then the deck/sidewall/floor is joined to the hull and stringers that have now become one solid piece. This is done with a reverse show box joint.
The 2 half’s are chemically bonded again with Plexsus. Stainless screws are used to hold the 2 pieces together until the bond is dry. The screws are not removed but are really not need since the Plexsus bond is stronger than the fiberglass. The other contact points where the hull and deck/sidewall/floor pieces are also bonded together making the boat one solid piece
I saw 3 -5 people at this station




The boats from there go to engine rigging and Upholstery to finish the product off

Although many people contributed to the end product they where are specialist on there part of the boat and took pride in there work.



I am sure I left out some details but his will give you a much better idea of how Centurions are built


Sangers are GREAT boats and are built like a tank the old school way ......Not that there is anything wrong with that

ryan,.... the avy is paid off!!!!! answer your stupid question.... and while your busy shaking your head remember I am not trying to bash the Centurion... just giving what I know if you have something consrtuctive to put in then do it.. and I did not say anything blows compared to anything else... just giving the differences between the building of both boats... but looking at your profile I now understand that maybe your feelings are hurt... sorry... there are things I like about my avy.... when I got the avy I had been moved over to help sale them,.. made sence at the time... not completely unhappy it's paid for....

kevin you and I both know that there is alot more that goes into it so... didn't know I had to write a book on the subject... just gave a quick example... I know you have been selling boats for a while Jimm Hammer and please do not insult me w/ the Kevin Baugh B.S. you made a mistake in the archives a while back and I saw it unless you gave Jimm Hammer your passcode!! I guess I can continue w/ this but it seems to be going nowhere... I'm sure the people at fineline put alot of pride in there boats.. but if Sangers are that oldschool than I guess some brands like Cigarret, and Fountain, Carver Yatchs, Reinell, Searay Cruisers just to name a few are old school as well... I guess there is something to be said for not reinventing the wheel just makeing it better....

You gave a quick distorted example. I just called you on it.
The last time I called you on a post you said I was Jim Hammer.
I am not a boat dealer nor do I play one on the web.
If you can give any proof that I am Jim Hammer or a boat dealer
I will give you Jim Hammers dealership…… oh no wait that won’t work since I am not
Jim.

I am calling you on this what is your proof I am Jim Hammer?

Nothing wrong with old school you listed some great boats Sanger is one of them!

Sharky, what do you mean when you say you're going to add bow thrusters so you can turn in a river. Are you implying that your Avy doesn't turn?

I have a Centurion Lightning. I don’t have a lot of experience with other inboards but the difference in handling from my old I/O to the Lightning was night and day. I can turn her around on a dime using only one finger to spin the steering wheel around.

I normally wakeboard on a river in Columbus Ohio. The river is as narrow as 300 feet in some places. When you consider that your supposed to stay 100 feet from shore and other boats that’s not a lot of maneuvering room. I have no, absolutely no trouble managing my boat on rivers.

Now when I load up with 2,000 pounds of ballast all on the port side for surfing, well that’s a bit sluggish, but what would you expect.

My Lightning is strong like a tank and handles, IMO, really nicely. The walk through ice chest adds strength in the middle of the boat, the weakest point for any boat.

Centurion offers lots of options and pretty cool technology.

Travis I’ve had my Lightning for two seasons, I put on about 200 GREAT hours a year. Good luck with your decision.

Kevin, I just love it when you bring the facts out

Kevin/Jim,
Are you starting trouble again ?

Sharky,
I'm not sure how you came up with that but Kevin and Jim are two different people.

Ok Greg uhh I mean Sharky Could it be that this is the same guy under a different name that called me Jim Hammer once before? http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/396972.html

I wonder where he got the idea someone would post under a false name.

Thanks Edward I just love to interupt a good story with THE FACTS

I will go and find it for you give me a moment

I have put off buying a new boat for a long time and have looked at them all ....and if i wanted to be an _ss i could find something wrong with all of them...but for the most part ALL of them are built pretty good. I think its up to the person footing the bill and if that person likes or loves the boat he or she is going to pay for. Travis if you like the centurion....buy the centurion. If the other guys like another brand , thats great let them buy that one. Opinions are like _ssholes everybody has one and most of them stink.I guess someone will think mine does.and it does .It would be boring if everybody had the exact same boat.I have had a MC for years,and have eat and breathed the name.But I to am changing brands. My reason....I like the boat,the wake,and really like my dealer. Centurion for me too!!!

You can have all the time and resource you need simple fact is I am Kevin Baugh always have been and always will be. Unlike a lot of people I am not afraid to post with my real name.

$100.00 says you can't prove I am anyone but Kevin Baugh. Heck if you can prove it I will give you $1000.00 dollars since I will be Jim hammer and have a bunch more cash

The cool thing about forums like this is that there are some fairly well informed folks that easily smoke out inaccuracies. To help shake out inaccuracies I look at language use; fowl language and name calling tend to indicate inaccurate claims. Short derogatory claims also tend not to stand up to a good challenge.

If you’re going to make claims and want people to respect what you’re saying, you should state what you have to say properly. I’ve read a number of Kevin’s posted replies, he’s articulate and respectful regardless of what other members of the forum post.

This isn’t grammar school, but if you want to make a point you should think about how you say it.

Will the real Kevin R Baugh please stand up.

http://www.clarkboat.com/kt.wmv
http://www.clarkboat.com/kevinsvideo.wmv

Ok i will try


As I have said many times I am a barefooter that loves to wakeboard




(Message edited by krbaugh on February 27, 2007)

One word for you Kev.... CLASSICO!


By the way, I bought my Centurion from Mr. Jim Hammer. THAT AIN'T HIM! Jim plays a twelve string.

(Message edited by c4avalanchen on February 27, 2007)

Sanger is built differently...
No other company utilizes a side bulkhead in their structural support. This bulkhead increases rigidity in the boat, eliminating flexing in the hull.


(Message edited by bftskir on February 27, 2007)

Nice color Rodney. The orange on Centurians is their best on the water.

Nice boat Rodney. That Centurion Orange almost made me buy one. I think it's one of the best colours on the water.

Centurion is built differently...
No other company utilizes a built-in insulated cooler in their structural support. This cooler increases rigidity in the boat, eliminating flexing in the hull.


Sorry Andy, no pun intended. Your grammar was exquisite, so I borrowed it. This is true however.

After many, many email discussions with Kevin, we bought our boat at Clarks, and that is definitely Kevin. Not that anyone other than Sharky had any doubts.

The point or difference is that Andy introduced facts, now I'm better informed.

After reading a MC superior build quality thread this week and then reading this thread all I can say is confusing. The liner build process in the other thread is stated to be a superior build process, an added manufacturing expense, and a reason for MC higher cost. In this thread it is indicated that it is an inferior process?

Does Centurian really claim that the built in cooler eliminates flexing in the hull? That is funny!!! I might agree if the claim was "reduces"...in addition to the unique side bulkhead Sanger uses a unibody construction where the top and bottom are fiberglassed together. Centurian uses glue(plexus) and screws(Why not use fiberglass?). Sometimes a test drive will not reveal the differences, only real live use under real live conditions shows the weaknesses of other manufacturing processes. I have to wonder about all of these boat companies that started business near the Sanger factory in central california, Sanger started in 1954, the others all came later...how many once worked for Sanger? You have Calabria, Centurian, Malibu, Fineline all within a few short miles of each other...makes you wonder...
And in regard to MC...we had an 84 power slot, blew a hole in a piston at 211 hours... once the prop just broke off right at the strut...we couldn't even tell if we hit anything we were just going along and all of a sudden no power we jumped in and no prop just the busted shaft but what was really bad was that the pop rivets they used to hold the top to the bottom all flexed until they fell out ...the boat basically fell apart...MC claimed we "used it too much"
I have never seen a Sanger fall apart from normal use. I have seen one hit an island and crack the upper hull in multiple places but it hit an island at 35+ and went airborne just missed trees on the little island...probably got 12 feet in the air...I was riding in it...we were teaching the drivers young son to barefoot on the boom he was watching the skiing and not the driving! it did still get us home.

I know Jim Hammer, very well. he knows me, my wife, my kids. I have never met Kevin, but he has been posting using his real name and info as far back as I can remember, all the way back to the rec.sport.waterski discussion board.

I truly believe that Sharky is a disgruntled Hammer's Rancho guy, now selling Sangers for Marine Max.

Does Sanger really claim that the built in bulk head eliminates flexing in the hull? That is funny!!! I might agree if the claim was "reduces"...


Why not use fiberglass?
Because adding fiberglass patch to cured fiberglass is not near as strong as a
Molecular bonding agent like Plexsus.


Andy look Sanger builds a great product they just build it differently than Fineline, Mc, Malibu, etc there are many different ways to build a boat no one method is the best. I have owned many MasterCrafts and Centurions none of them fell apart from normal use one of the reasons I chose those boat brands was because they are wood free. Does that mean that Sangers are bad because they have wood in them of course not they come with lifetime warranty on the wood plus they encapsulate the wood in fiberglass. I have driven and footed behind Sangers many times love the boats. As a matter of fact I came very close to buying one. The wood had nothing to do with my decision not to buy a Sanger

This topic has gotten a bit heated...geeeez. I will say as far as the wood goes (lets not get all bent out of shape on this topic either, it has been beaten to death). The wood is one of the reasons I bought the Sanger. IMO, most manufac. stopped using wood because to do it right, it is more expensive, and labor intensive. Wood is one of the reasons the Sangers feel so solid. It truly takes some time and effort to do wood right. You cant mass produce a boat, and do wood right, hence most have gone to fiberglass. It always amuses (sp) when I go to a boat show, and hear some salesman say "Why would you use wood this day and age" Because $150,000.00 offshore boats still use it, because it helps with vibration, etc......etc.....etc.... Ok, off my soapbox. By the way, I dont sale Sangers, and this is my real name

I have a 2007 Sanger V215 and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Fantastic boat for the money.

Craig, nice job. 100% correct.

none of the above. Try moomba or a Vride if you are looking to save you pennies

ryan,.... the avy is paid off!!!!! answer your stupid question.... and while your busy shaking your head remember I am not trying to bash the Centurion... just giving what I know if you have something consrtuctive to put in then do it.. and I did not say anything blows compared to anything else... just giving the differences between the building of both boats... but looking at your profile I now understand that maybe your feelings are hurt... sorry... there are things I like about my avy.... when I got the avy I had been moved over to help sale them,.. made sence at the time... not completely unhappy it's paid for....

sharky, feelings aint' hurt, could care less what you ride. you sound like a typical salesman though, blow whatever brand or color of smoke up someones arse to get them to believe whatever it is you have to say. you bunch of whiners that claim a boat has hand laid fiberglass laid horizontally instead of vertical and use wood cuz it helps with vibrations b.s. believe what you want, just sell the avy cuz it's paid for and buy one of your precious "one guy made my boat special for me" boats and quit your whining. could care less what anybody drives, all this whining and educated opinions are getting old!!

Then you should start caring less now... and let us know when you couldn't care less




Couldn't resist

2007 V220 Sky Supreme.

Miguel, that is probably the best looking Supreme I have seen.

miguel, same color combo that i got. she bradn new, or have you had a chance to take her out yet?

thanx, broke her in this weekend, put about 7 hrs on her. Will be at vics fri/sat/sun riding off her. heres some more pics.