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Old    rod (rodltg2)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-22-2007, 5:14 PM Reply

Nice come back to zero off. looks like it will work on the older boats too. lame name though.
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-22-2007, 7:58 PM Reply   
Except for the fact that trick mode(which would be wakeboard mode) still runs off of the paddle wheel, so it would be no different for any of us.
Old    Tony (guitsboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-24-2007, 7:52 AM Reply   
GPS based cruise control will not take any currents into consideration, so if you wakeboard on a river or any moving water, you might have a real wide wake in one direction and a thin one in the other!
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-24-2007, 10:20 AM Reply   
I'm guessing they didn't realize that Stargazing is the same term for what you're NOT supposed to do on raleys?

Having been on a 220 with Zero Off it was absolutely amazing through the double ups! It required no driver input on the throttle. An amateur could drive double-ups no problem.

That's too bad though if what Travis said is correct. (And since it's Travis, I'd imagine it's correct.)
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       10-24-2007, 11:42 AM Reply   
The Zero off on the Nautiques works perfect on lakes or on a river with current, it keeps the best speed hands down over any speed control system I have ever used.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-24-2007, 3:18 PM Reply   
How many boat companies are using Zero Off now? Perfect Pass must be losing a lot of business...I guess its good, now they won't be a monopoly.
Old    K.B.C.            10-24-2007, 3:22 PM Reply   
I think CC only
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-24-2007, 4:09 PM Reply   
I just read what it said on link that Rod posted.

It said trick mode will continue to run off of paddle wheel, but performance has been tweaked. It also said jump mode will remain the same. So the only change has been made to the slalom mode. If they are smart they will do it across the board.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-24-2007, 4:13 PM Reply   
The Mastercraft at TSR had Zero Off, Scott.
Old    Larry (larrys)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-24-2007, 5:13 PM Reply   
I had a chance to spend the day in an '08 Nautique with Zero off. It worked great! Except for the fact that the waterway we wakeboard on has 5 bridges. When we passed under the bridges the signal was lost and speed dropped. I hope they come up with a solution for this!
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-24-2007, 6:07 PM Reply   
you can order it aftermarket for any boat, but as a factory option, only CC has it Leo.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       10-25-2007, 7:40 AM Reply   
If you set the speed and wakeboard in slalom mode isn't that going to be exactly the same as zero off?
Old    GrandmasterB (bp909)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-25-2007, 9:30 AM Reply   
I did not read the entire article, but it appears that system is for Slalom Courses. It mentions magnets and bouy's. Not good for Rivers. BTW. 150 ft. from any bridge = no wake.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-25-2007, 10:47 AM Reply   
Grandmaster, even the bridges in California/Oregon that are 200-300 feet high?
Old    GrandmasterB (bp909)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-25-2007, 11:06 AM Reply   
Check your local laws, even the Police personnel do not have their facts straight. Here in TX, we don't have any 300 ft bridges. If it is a suspension bridge sounds like it would be ok.
Old    Mike B (mlb75)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-27-2007, 1:26 AM Reply   
The problem I see is that in all honesty for board sports, be that skiing or especially wakeboarding, you don't care what the actual Speed Over Ground is you only care what the velocity of the water under the board is (that's what determines the lift generated and the feel of the board in the water not SOG and if the Star Gazer (Gay name BTW) uses GPS it won't have water speed only SOG. A good example of this difference and it's impact in the real world is an aircraft landing on an aircraft carrier, the carrier will always be pointed into the wind so that the apparent air speed for the aircraft landing (effecting stall speed) will be greater while their actual SOG is lower meaning they're able to come to a stop quicker, with less force, once they actually hit the deck. Granted for those riding on non tidal lakes this might be OK but even then I think I'll stick to my perfect pass.

As for the no wake around bridges I know in VA they're pretty hard core about it, granted if you're talking Golden Gate or something like that you're probably fine but check you're local guidelines and you'll probably find that they're like marina's even if it's not posted it's by default a no wake zone.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       10-28-2007, 10:59 PM Reply   
The bridge rule is either not in effect around here (Panhandle florida)or has never been enforced. We go through flat out unless said bridge is in a "no wake" or "minimum wake" zone. Someone please point me to this rule either on the coast guard site or floridas FWC.
As far as the GPS based PP I was saying this wouldnt work anyhwere other then a lake that has no tides of water flow. Tide going out a couple mph will make a big difference when boat changes direction. You could feel like your going upwards of 5mph different easy. Go with the paddle wheel unless you have a dedicated or 4 wheeler would work though if on lake lanier in ga, right now.
Old    Andy Larson (mwmc_andy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-29-2007, 2:25 PM Reply   
Most of the companies who use Indmar engines will likley only install Perfect Pass as a factory option.

Zero Off will only work on 2007 and newer boats with a throttle by wire system. To use Zero Off in an Indmar engine, the ECM (computer) must be replaced with a different unit. The unit they use is the same that PCM/Correct Craft does from the factory.

Indmar has expressed a great degree of concern over allowing someone elses computer to control their engine (at least while that engine is under their warranty!). I would not want to own a boat with an Indmar engine equipped with Zero Off if there was an engine failure that could not be easily attributed to mechanical failure.

MC is going to install both systems in the 3-event Tournament Team boats this year to see what that crowd prefers.

Zero Off seems to have made a few errors in their business plan. 1- Not offering a product that can be installed on older boats. 2- Offering a product that requires running a different engine ECM than several of the largest selling inboard companies (Malibu, MasterCraft, Supra, Moomba.) creating a warranty grey area.

Will Zero Off end up like Accu Ski?

I would think that PP could make it pretty tough on ZO if they can utilize GPS and make it function without potential warranty issues on both new and used boats.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-29-2007, 3:36 PM Reply   
I am with Mike B and Bob, there is no way a GPS speed control can work if there is an ounce of waterflow in one direction or another. If installed properly, I don't see any need, whatsoever, to replace the good old paddle wheel. Especially, when all that matters to us is water speed. Also, as a boat dealer, I have replaced 1 paddle wheel out of 100+ boats I have sold in the last 3 years. Maybe I am missing something, I just don't understand, 99% of problems with perfect pass are engine control related, not speed input.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       10-29-2007, 10:30 PM Reply   
Alan ,mine has been in for probably 700 hours and I think the paddle wheel just went bad. I only trailer, on avg, 10 miles and up till now have never had any problems with it. Some folks have had problems getting the servo wet but it is really a rock solid, basic design.


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