first invert- which is best?

Holler! I have been working on my heel side back roll fOREVER now...and I had some guys tell me I need to get a tantrum down first before I roll. My main problem is I'm landing my roll switch so I'm not carrying it out because I don't ride switch well! Any advice would be much appreciated!!!! And does anyone ride in Idaho?! I'm moving there soon and need buddies!

For me the tantrum was the easiest because it is the same exact feeling doing a backflip off a divingboard or on a trampoline. I can do a backroll but it has never felt automatic like the tantrum. It just seemed so easy after land a hand full of tantrums. It's like you don't even really try to throw it, it just happens.

Amber - I did the same as you. Took me a 1 1/2 seasons to land the backroll, kept going to switch too.
I ended up getting my 180's & riding switch and landed a roll 2 revert.

Took 1 weekend to land a tantrum. Give them a go.

some people learn tantrums easier, some backrolls, it depends on whether your good at backflips on trampolines and such. I was and landed a tantrum on my 12th try.

tantrum just didn't feel right the first time i tried (despite i do back flips on the trampoline) the HS back Roll just came natural though. after the first attempt i knew i was landing it THAT DAY and after just a few more tries i nailed it.

I say to everyone trying inverts, try both at least once and go with which one seems to give you the most confident feel... unless the first one you try immediately gives you that "feel" then hit and nail it and then try the next ;)

maybe i will get a tantrum down this summer now

(Message edited by wakerider111 on March 31, 2009)

Amber... the most common mistake I see when people are learning inverts is the basics building up to a backroll. 1. Are you able to do wake to wake jumps in control with grabs? 2. Are you letting go with your lead hand on your backroll attmepts? If so don't. 3. Are your eyes open? Those are the three most common things wrong I've seen with backroll attempts. Post a video of it and people would be able to give you some great coaching. There's a lot of knowledge on this forum.

Amber, my boy has the same problem with hs back rolls. One day out of fustration, he decided to try a 1 wake ts backroll and landed it first try, the next day he was taking them w2w. If you're comfortable doing back flips on a tramp then give them a go. Try them first at the slowest boat speed where you still have a clean wake...good luck!

I suggest learning all of them on a trampoline first to make sure you have a feeling of what your body is supposed to be doing in the air.

I like the backroll over the tantrum because the backroll feels fluid and the tantrum feels a little bit forced. My biggest problem when learning the backroll was trying to start rotating up the wake where instead I should've been waiting longer until my tail snapped off of the water. The backroll took me 6 attempts, it's really an easy trick because all you're doing is edging yourself right into an invert.
But you're saying that you keep coming out switch, I'd take it to the trampoline and work that out.

i had the same problem of going to switch when i tried my backroll and it was pretty much always because i didnt keep the handle on my front hip and let it drift back toward the center or back of my body...found this out from a friend in the boat never really realized myself until he showed me

toeside front rolls were the easiest for me to learn

HS Backroll was my first
Tantrum was super easy
Scarecrows were super easy to learn too

pends on your hs/ts abilities and how you're comfortable flipping.... a backroll is an odd motion until you understand how it is suppose to be, then its super easy.

hs backroll was more natural for me. I've heard the tantrum is the easiest, but it just feels weird upon approach. that being said, I watched a video of a tantrum, explained it to a buddy of mine before we went out, and he stuck it first try.

I still to this day have trouble doing a regular back roll. I always end up going R2R, and just stuck with it. I learned the BR 1st then a scarecrow before a tantrum.
If possible a tramp is best to learn that rotation on, but really tough to give you the feel on a back roll, IMHO.

I learned Backroll, Scarecrow, TS frontroll, and then R2R. To this day I have the backroll and crows fairly consistent, but ts fronts and R2R only sticking a handful...

Anybody do TS R2R's? Doesn't seem too common, yet doesn't look all that tough?

I do ts r2r's pretty easy for a ts invert.

My invert prgoression was HS backroll, TS backroll, then a tantrum. Although I learned the HS backroll first, I find the tantrum much easier just because it is an easier trick to envision yourself mentally landing. HS backroll is a little more awkward to explain compared to the straight back flip motion of a tantrum which is just like doing one on a trampoline. To some it can be a little more intimidating because the liklihood of accidently going revert is higher, increasing your chances of catching that TS edge on the way down.

I've coached two of my buddies now on their first inverts, both of them being tantrums. One friend stuck it his third try, and the other stuck it after a day's worth of attempts.

It may be good for you to try something new (tantrum), so that you aren't beating yourself up, both mentally and physically. Then again, if you feel you are that close, keep at it. If you're taking it to revert, or switch, then you aren't keeping the handle at your hip. Make sure throughout the whole rotation to keep two hands on the handle and hold it tightly to your lead hip; otherwise, if it drifts to your back hip then you'll begin to rotate the 180. Good luck to ya!

TS R2R is waaaaaaaay easier than a straight TS back,
I would say scarecrows and/or front rolls are easier than TS r2r's.... the falls hurt far less too if you come up short.

Where in Idaho are you moving? If it's close to Spokane, WA make a trip up and I can get you landing your backrolls and tantrums. We have a pretty good crew of guys and gals of all abilities!

We also have some events coming up again this year you might be interested in:

http://www.wakefirst.com/events/5th-annual-dukes-of-hauser

http://www.wakefirst.com/events/butter-stomp-wakeboard-comp

http://www.wakefirst.com/events/wake-the-desert-wakeboard

If you are close to landing flips you would do well in the Womens division!

The backroll was my first invert. The tantrum came much later but now it is probably the easiest invert for me.

On the backroll it might help you to let go with your back hand once you are upside down. That will help you square up on the landing.

If it doesnt improve, move on to a tantrum. The tantrum can be a little bit more scary than the roll because you need to charge the wake harder.

I think backrolls are easier, although I learned Tantrums first, actually learned raleys before both of them.

If you're going to revert on your backroll, chances are you're throwing it too hard. I had the problem of throwing it too hard and would always go to revert when I was learning it. It is hard to go out and not throw it as hard, because you don't want to not make it all the way around. Things that may help: shorten your approach (think progressive edge, but start out really mellow and then lay into your edge right before the wake) - you're probably laying on the gas too hard too soon, let go with your back hand half way through the trick (the natural rotation of a mexican roll actually takes you to revert - this will help prevent that from happening), make sure the handle isn't toward your rear hip at any point during the flip.

If that doesn't work, slow the boat down, shorten the rope, and try it one wake. It sounds like you're really close though.

The tantrum was my first invert and I have always found it easier than the backroll. I think the tantrum was easier because it's just like a backflip on a trampoline or off a diving board.

Man I blew my knee out learning tantrums years ago and just never got back in the sadle. I always come up short on backrolls, but I went out and learned a raley in like 3 tries. The raley still messes with my head though. I came so close to toeside back rolls a couple seasons ago but I would always bounce on the landing and couldnt stick it. I really want to start learning the inverts again, I got into spinning stuff more the past couple seasons

Definitely tantrum. I was afraid of the backroll for some reason, and couldn't get myself to throw all the way around, but after seeing a friend land the tantrum i was able to pretty easily.

Landed my first one this past summer and here is a clip of probably my 2nd or 3rd tantrum ever! its pretty crappy, and the video quality is even worse.. just warning ya...ha



http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=55030 088

I really think it depends where you are at in your ridding technique. Backrolls are more dependant on a progressive edge and will never ever get one consistent if your edge is not very progressive. Tantrums rely more on speed and timing which allows for poor technique to not really effect the trick. Like mentioned before if going to revert is your only problem just try the trick one handed a few times, I had the same problem at first and it solved it right away.

Raley!............J/K Tantrum is the only way to go!

People go both ways, if you have learned the proper techniques a roll should be easier, and it sounds like all you need is to ride with someone familiar with the trick and they'll have you landing it in one set. I tried tantrums for nearly a year, then tried a roll and landed 3rd try. Last year I had 3 people learn rolls first, and 2 learn tantrums. Maybe try throwing your head just a little more down instead of all the way out (assuming you are properly throwing the roll up and away at the wake, and a little too much creating the to revert), and tug the rope in a bit halfway through with your front hand. Congrats on ripping it, first flip is always one of the greatest feelings.

Thanks so much for all the solid advice guys....I knew I should start dropping my rear hand. I'll try that and I'll give a couple of the tantrums a try....I just really want to progress out there and it's difficult not going to people that can help me! THanks everyone!

I don't mean to be a jerk but if you don't ride switch well yet you are probably going to have a hard time with inverts. Get your fundamentals strong and getting upside down will be much easier. I know people who have taken full seasons to learn a backroll because the were not ready and I have seen people learn it in one session.
If you want to go for an invert I would suggest the backroll. It is an easier trick and there is less chance of major damage to your body. It only takes once coming up short on a tantrum to really mess up your ankles.

I'd be careful with dropping that backhand. Drop it to early and your not going to get as much pull into the rotation. Maybe try dropping it after your all the way inverted if you must do it. Remember this trick comes from your edge and line tension and you should never be "throwing" the backroll, it's a really natural fluid motion all of the way through.

Here's a video, It's probably not even a good example, it was cold that day, but watch how my edge progressively gets harder until I'm right at the point of my take off. Proper edging is key in this trick.

Handle on the lead hip... key to Backroll not going switch.