powering wetsounds

what kind of amps do you use to power wetsound speakers

I have a massive p800-4 on the Wet Sounds 3 some. I'm happy with the way it sounds.

arc audio 4150 for two pro 80's

sounds great...very noisy

What Wetsounds speakers are you looking to power. I just purchased a Rockford Fosgate T400-2 to power a pair of Pro60 speakers. They need 150 Watts RMS so this amp should power them nicely. The T600-2 is also a sweet amp if you have more then 1 pair of speakers.

Out of curiosity has anyone looked at the Hifonics amps, I've been out of the whole custom stereo thing for a bit but I'm getting ready to order a set of 485's so I need something. I'm looking at the RF T600-4 or the Zapco 1000.4 (if I can find a deal on one) since both are recommended by Wetsounds but a friend suggested I look at the Hifonics Zeus ZXi6404, or a pair of ZXi6006's (one per 485) or after looking at their lineup how about a Gemini or Colossus? Any thoughts on their quality or output.

Thanks

tim from wet sounds told me he is aiming to have his amps out at the first of the year.

Any idea what they'll be and what they'll run price and power wise?

i didn't ask him, you'd have to PM him. I know he is on tigeowners.com, and i'm pretty sure he has made a few posts on this site.

I've had the best luck with 2 JL Audio 300/2. If you want to run a single amp try any of the larger Arc Audio 4chs. I amp not a dealer but the Zapcos seem to be a popular choice.

Avionixx AXA800.4 (tripath)
400w X 2 @ 12.5v/1.0% THD
www.woofersetc.com

Powering two Pro-485s driven through a maxxbass processor.

I just won a kicker SX700.4 off Ebay for $230 shipped. Do you guys think it will do a good job powering two pro 485's?

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm trying to stay away from running seperate amps for the 485's because I don't want to have to split the RCA's. I'm trying to allow for the possible addition of a set of 80's as well so if I did that I'd need a another amp and just don't think the head unit will run three sets of inputs off a single pre-out (I plan to use a LC1 for the tower setup).

Ben,
The 300/2 look nice but are rated ~ the same power as the single RF unit, any feedback on how the two compare in the real world? I'm especially interested in power consumption and actual power output. Have you used any of the Hifonics gear?

Mikeski does the maxxbass processor really help? I have seen a couple of guys use one of these.

sorry for the hijack.

Mike- The 300/2 are very under rated at 150 per ch. Short of going to the Arc Audio SE4200 I think that power and sound quality is hard to beat with the 300/2s. Like I mentioned, the Zapco seems to be popular also but I really don't have a TON of experience with it. The JL, Arc, and Zapco have great sound quality. Rockford will be okay for the guy who wants to be loud but it is not the BEST sounding amp but much better than the Hifonics.

I would take my opinion on sound quality lightly because I can tell the difference in amps much more than an average listener. For the guy who has a couple Coronas and just wants to hear the beat any of these amps will work fine. If you are a true audio enthusiast then JL, Arc, Zapco are some of your top picks in addition to lots of high quality smaller manufactures out there.

is any one using the kicker amps that come with all new tiges with 4 wet sounds that come from the factory? I'm wonder how well they work, the sales men at the marina said it would work but again he is the sales man.

Many people will tell you it will be hard to tell the difference between kicker and zapco at 70-80 feet. Kicker is a popular choice and seems to offer a good "bang for the buck."

You guys crack me up.

Focusing on sound quality on tower speakers is like focusing on a smooth ride in a diesel 3/4 ton pickup.

My amp decision criteria:
1. Power output (50%)
2. Amplifier efficiency (20%)
3. Cost (20%)
4. Sound Quality (10%)

MaxxBass sounds better to me on my Pro-485s the way I have my system setup. It may help yours too but it has lots to do with the overall balance of your system.

Mikeski my system is pretty basic but to be quick...
-Sony HU to audiocontrol four.1 line driver - to an Mmatts 4150 amp - to two pair of pro 80's

I am thinking if I could get a little more midbass that would be great.

"Many people will tell you it will be hard to tell the difference between kicker and zapco at 70-80 feet."

I'm one..... You won't hear a SQ difference at 70-80ft with two amps of similar power. You would be doing good to hear a difference in SQ in the boat with two similar amps. What you will hear a difference in is an underpowered amp and one that's not.

I use a Zapco 1000.4 for four Wetsounds Pro-60. I went with Zapco because I knew the reputation for quality, like the symbilink cables, and it provided more than enough power.

Who has the time or resources to really compare amps of different manufactures anyway? Usually a dealer carries one or two lines of amps and they usually are not competing lines.

Btw, Zapco can be found for far below thier MSRP through authorized dealers so when I started comparing amps of equal specs there wasn't much of a cost difference.

I'm sorry to say that I have heard a difference in amps going to tower speakers. It might just be me listening to music that brings out the imperfections in lower end amps and looking for a problem. I think sound q should be a higher, but not your highest, priority. After all, you did by speakers to reproduce sound, might as well make them sound as good as they were intended to. If you only cared about volume then you would be at the local auction buying particle board boxes loaded up with motorola horn tweeters and seeing how many you can fit on the tower powered by the 2000 watt Rockwood or Crunch amp. Its one thing to be loud and an even better to sound as good as possible and be loud.



Its one thing to be loud and an even better to sound as good as possible and be loud.

Maybe I should clarify... I have heard a drastic difference in SQ from the same pair of tower speakers (Pro-80). But I attributed that to an underpowered amp being used and then replaced one that was not.

My previous comment needs a little clarification as well...

I feel that the speakers are 90%+ responsible for what you hear. Put you money into the speakers not the amp. Audio 101.

"Many people will tell you it will be hard to tell the difference between kicker and zapco at 70-80 feet."

I am one too.....

But hey....whatever it takes to get brand loyalty for the big ticket items, right? I've got some $400 condoms that work way better than Trojans if anyone wants to buy some.


"I'm sorry to say that I have heard a difference in amps going to tower speakers. It might just be me listening to music that brings out the imperfections in lower end amps and looking for a problem. I think sound q should be a higher, but not your highest, priority. After all, you did by speakers to reproduce sound, might as well make them sound as good as they were intended to."

If you had any idea of the circuitry of an amplifier, you would realize how absurd this comment is. Show me one component inside an amplifier that has the job of improving the frequency running through it. An amp has about as much to do with improving the sound frequencies as a bunny with pancakes. If an amp is crap, then yes it will introduce distortion; other than that, the function of an amp is to amplify. An amplifier does not (and should not) "tint" the signal it is amplifying.

The myth that an amplifier improves sound quality was introduced by the lacadasical ratings being given to amps for so many years. B/c of this, many were underpowering with cheap amps that had ratings lower than printed, or higher distortion rates. Someone replaced it with a properly rated amp, was able to lower the input signal, and voila....the "sound improved". In actuality the sound didn't improve so much as a better overall frequency balance was achieved through lowering the input signal to the amp, and having lower demand on the power supply, decreasing distortion.

For even better proof that amp choice has very little to do with sound, look at the manual. You will never see a manufacturer print specs related to frequency reproduction. The only part of an amp that relates to frequency reproduction is the EQ, and some of those can tint sound, but only near the cutoff frequency.

My amp purchase is based on 4 criteria:
Best match to my other gear (HU output and driver setup, power rating, etc)
Rated according to CEA
Best overall distortion rating
Best design. I do care about how it looks.


(Message edited by OlskoolTige on November 06, 2007)

Steve,

Nice post. It's refreshing to hear somebody else talk in terms of circuitry versus shades of gray and opinions based on experience. It's nice to have somebody else that understands the difference between an Op-Amp and a Filter.

Steve- I agree that amps do not make a signal sound better or contain anything that makes them do but I do believe that they can have better internal components that will prevent them from coloring or "tinting" the sound that is reaching the input stages of the amp. I agree that amps should not tint a signal but I have heard many that do. I agree that having enough power can overcome the most horrible specs compared to a lower power amp with great specs.
Mike- I speak based off my opinion based off experience and I think many people do. I'm proud to share my experience here and I'm glad that I can get feedback from people like you and Steve that probably do have much more circuitry knowledge than I do.
I'm not on here to preach my words but more to learn and help if I can. I do not want to compete or even get into a tech battle with anyone on here. I just give my 2cents on the subject and never intend to put down anyone or bash anyones opinions or experience. I may have different ways of picking my equipment and I may lean towards the higher end stuff because I have had it sound better than others and I can hear it. Other people in the car, truck, boat, living room, back yard or garage may not hear the difference but I like what I hear and that is was I care about when its time to piece together my own audio systems. This is the same anyone should do. I made the mistake of bashing auction equipment in an earlier post. I should not have done that because to some that makes them happy and sounds good to their ears. I have done $1500 systems that people love and $35000 systems that people feel "needs a little more". Its all personal taste, previous experiences and a persons tonal preference. How anyone gets to their completed system or what they use doesn't matter as long as their ears are happy.


Here are two quotes pulled off other sites that relate to the topic that this post has turned into:



------"Some audiophiles have postulated that the present set of audio measurements does not fully represent all that is significant in accurate music reproduction, and instead represents only those aspects which are relatively easy and cost-effective to measure with our current technology. Given the complexity and sophistication of human hearing and perception, it is felt that some consideration should be given to the possibility that there may be aspects of music reproduction that have yet to be identified.

Measurements are quantitative, not qualitative. Subjectivists claim that listening tests are more appropriate for appraising the quality of an audio system than measuring the accuracy with which it can reproduce a waveform."



--------"Hey, enjoy your music. Don't sweat it. Play with the knobs, and if you like what you're hearing, the specs are probably pretty good. Or your ears don't care. Maybe someday you'll hear something better, or you'll use specs to put something together you know is better. Maybe not. But if you like what you're hearing, you're on the right path. I can guarantee you one thing: There are an awful lot of people out there spending money on specs they will never be able to hear as differences in the music in a million years. Just don't expect them to ever admit it. I have to really work not to laugh my head off when someone tells me they spent several hundred dollars - or even over a thousand - on speaker cables and they "sound better" than a nice heavy gauge twisted pair of stranded copper wires they could have had for about five bucks...

Steve and Ben, great posts..
Mikeski, I agree with that opinion as well. The speakers will be responsible for more of the sound. Can amp make a difference? yes, but not nearly as much as the speakers .

Wouldn't the tranformer in an amp be the most likely component to affect frequency? I cant imagine it would be a hugely noticeable thing..

Transformer shouldn't affect sound. A transformer takes high voltage and converts it to a lower voltage. Simple transformers are wire wraps.

is anybody using a PDX amp to run a 3some setup.

Steve,
Transformers do lots more than what you outline. They will affect sound quality and output to a degree. Not much but WAY too much for this discussion. In a a modern car audio amp, they are in the power supply and are switching at about 100khz, making a high DC voltage out of a low DC voltage. Even in a crappy amp. My point being.....HIFONICS cheap chinese junk baby. An amplifier is a simple device that takes a signal and makes it bigger and ever so much more so, but an absolutely faithful reproduction of the crappy signal you put in it. I like well designed and cheaply executed pieces of hardware, available for dirt cheap and I don't really care if they get wet or stolen. You "audiophiles" cannot tell the difference in the amp I run, whether it be one that has full page ads in magazines or not. That's the only real difference, hyperbole. With HEADPHONES, you guys can't tell the difference between 1% and 10% THD, its a proven fact. I am talking about years of double blind testing. It is a joke in our industry.
What sells in the audio industry is bling and hype, not performance. Not to say that the high end amps don't perform, they certainly do. So do certain cheap ones.

For a boat? Unless you are building a showpiece or a monument to your blingness, use the simplest piece of hardware that will do the job. I recommend the hifonics crap simply because I have had good luck with it, it holds up under a given load. I don't recommend running any amp at a low ohm rating on a boat because of the long transmission lines and heat requirements. Buy an amp that's 50% bigger and let it run cool. I concur, spend the money on the speakers.

there are a lot of good amps out there for not too much coin...JL slash series, zapco reference, arc audio, alpine pdx just to name a few (i personally dig on the zapco for the symbilink and the rock steady reliability).

i kinda go along with what psyclone said - buy a amp 50 % bigger and run it cool..

I have the Alpine PDX 2.150 running 2 Pro-80's and they are too loud for everyone in the boat but me of course. You can't hold a conversation when i really get them going and the amps don't take up all of your room under the seat and will not zap your battery. I also have another 2.150 and a 1.1000 and can play loud music for a couple of hours while only using only 1 battery. Very efficient!!