One rider from each heat =Bull

I really think the Pro Tour is hurting our great sport, how many excellent riders that could easily ride the tour that don't make it, you try out year after year, then get discouraged and say the heck with it. 1 rider out of each heat qualified to ride the tour this year, having to wait another year is bull, I don't know of any other sport that doesn't have other ways to qualify. Let's talk about Sean O Brien for my case, he can easily ride and beat almost any rider on tour given the opportunity but putting that much pressure on each rider that they only have one chance to qualify is ridiculous. I guarantee that there are several other riders out there that could compete and do really well but without those opportunities, they'll get discouraged and give up, does anyone else agree and what are your opinions? I know the tour had to limit the amount of entries but they should add an extra day to their schedule and have a qualifying round at each stop and allow some great riders a chance to make it, not once a year.

I totally agree with you, but you have to remember our sport doesn't generate enough income to pay for an extra day of venue, workers, gas, etc. to have a qualifying round at each stop. I think there should be local INT's or something that you have to qualify through. If you let everyone who wants to compete compete, we'd be there a week just qualifying people.

Melanie, It cost a lot of money to travel to these stops (plane tickets, rental car, hotel,food,ect.)your not going to get tons of people trying to qualify at each stop, right now you do because the riders only have one chance to qualify. Yes it would cost the tour a little more money but if builds the sport instead of inhibiting it, it's worth every dime! Since the riders don't have other ways to qualify, it is the tours responsibilty to promote the sport, not slow it down. I can tell you this, Shaun Murray qualified but lets say he had an off day and fell twice and didn't make it. What would the sponsors and the tour do about that, Shaun is one of the best riders on tour hands down but anyone can have a bad day!!

"you have to remember our sport doesn't generate enough income to pay . . . . "

Isn't that what it really all get's down to? Maybe it doesn't have the income because it isn't planned out or marketed properly? This is a classic "what comes first the chicken or the egg" scenario in my mind. The tour sponsors try to cut expenses and the product becomes less and less viable.

Regional qualifiers based on an overall performance make the most sense to me. If a local rider is just dominating the local outlaw class provide an extra heat or 2 at all the tour stops allowing those types of riders to try and make it in. When your whole year rests on 1 heat that's just too much for a rookie rider to even cope with IMHO.

Craig: I didn't see Justin on the list, did he try to qualify?

I wasn't saying to get rid of qualifying altogether, just make it easier. I definately don't agree with the whole one time only thing, but it's insane at the amount of riders that enter.

Does anyone have the complete list of the riders that are going to be competing at the tour?

I'll probably get slaughtered for this....but maybe they should replace the wakeskating seats with more wakeboarders. It is the Pro "Wakeboard" tour. Then create a separate Pro Wakeskating event. I love wakeskating, but trying to watch even highly respectable surface tricks from shore SUCKS anyway. Seriously, 90 percent of the people there wouldn't miss it because it sucks to watch from shore in choppy water, and more wakeboarders might have a chance.

J-Rod I couldent agree more with what you are saying. I love to wakeskate its really all I do anymore, but I agree and think wakeskating needs its own pro tour, and is boaring to watch from the shoreline. It would also give more great wakeboarders a chance to qualify for the Pro WAKEBOARD Tour. Wakeskatin heats go on forever and ever, not good for the wakeboard fans as well. I hear it all the time from wakeboard fans.

Rich, Justin decided not to try and qualify, school was more important as it should be.

Funny,

Rich and I had the same conversation about his boy 2 days ago.

We need to get Justin and Chris together. That would be a boat load of talent.

I remember Justin watching Chris' section in Delta Sessions and commenting on how sick his riding was.

end of highjack....

Bottom line - Pro Wakeboarding is VERY underdeveloped and mature in any way yet.

Take a hint on how to succeed from other sports, namely pro surfing. There is the WQS (World Qualifying Series) which develops and feeds the WCT (World Championship Tour). The WQS is a series with 44 contests around the globe. The top 16 finishers in that grueling tour qualify for the WCT. The WCT, also known as the "Dream Tour" is a series of 12 huge venues showcasing the tried, true and proven top 45 surfers on planet earth, bar none. The prize money, sponsorship and coverage is solid and the world can watch & relate. Since the WCT has been going, there has been a huge development in pro surfing and hero's have been made larger than life to kids all around the world (Kelly Slater, Andy Irons, Occy, Taj, Knox etc etc).

Now - Pro Mens Wakeboarding is hurting when related or compared to that BUT it doesn't have to. Granted, a "World Tour" is a bit much to ask right now when it comes to Wake but there definitely is the money, the market and the following to have a solid and developed USA Pro Tour.

There simply should be two tiers of competition for Pro Wakeboarding in the USA:
1. Pro Mens Qualifying Tour
2. Pro Mens Championship Tour

The Qualifying tour would be more smaller events with less prize money but if you're a hungry pro or an am that wants to take it to the pros - you get your shot to fight it out, contest after contest in order to qualify for a spot on the bigger Pro Mens Championship Tour. Say, top 15 or top 20 qualify each year for the Championship tour which would hold the top 40 Wakeboarders.

This would give value to the Championship tour in Wake. Right now, it's a JOKE. One run to qualify cannot suffice or showcase your talents enough to make or break your year - that's just plain STUPID and shows a complete lack of organization with the Pro Tour as it stands today.

Pro Wakeboarding today is WRONG. How can kids have their hero's? How can a rider truly prove in competition that he is THE BEST or THE CHAMPION? You can't with today's structure. The kids have to read the mags and go to some "Slider Slam" or "Rail Jam" to find a Wake hero or a rider they can relate to because the Pro Tour is NOT a true reflection of who's the best.

Change needs to happen. The industry is ready.

Yea sucks for Sean... i'd rather watch him ride then most on that list. Put in a few of the other groupings and he would have been on the list. He got his fair shot don't get me wrong, but it isn't fair he wont ride the tour now.

I am curious what you guys think of the whole head to head format? As a spectator I like to watch my favorite riders as close to possible in their free-ride format and I feel that the whole "head to head" deal seems to take away from that. Everything I ever heard from most of the Pro's interviews was that contests didnt really represent wakeboarding in its real form, freeride. Are they happy with the way things are now? It seems logical to me that head to head is even more rewarding for a consistent "trained run for wakeboarding" If my opponent even fell, all I would have to do is put in a decent stand up pass correct? Maybe the judging has changed and they scores support a rider pushing the sport rather than conservative riding; but I want to see some tricks tossed that are more in development and less "on lock". Something like a best of three runs format, best spin, etc. I know surfing does the whole head to head deal, but cant wakeboarding come up with a more original format? What happens if your two favorite riders are seeded together, you only get to see one run from the loser of that heat?

The head to head is a good format because it makes the pro truly earn his victory in the finals. He has to have three stand up runs to win showing that he is the best and deserves it. As for comparing the WCT and QS to the pro wakeboard tour, it just isnt possible right now to do. There is not enough money in our sport to have two tours going around and the riders cannot afford to run a QS circuit. The QS surfers still fly to the contests for free and are still pretty big named surfers, but I dont think the wakeboard companies can afford to send their riders on a seperate tour like that. That would be a very cool idea though and i think it will one day lead to it, but remember, our sport is very young compared to surfing. Honestly, I think it is fair to run the 15 heat 1 qualify system. If you think about it, that is a TON of heats. The riders can still ride in the other pro comps but only if some of the top 44 dont show, which always happens. Don't worry guys, you will see some of your favorite riders on tour this year and if they do well, they will up their ranks and bump some of the other guys off. As for the junior men, they are the ones getting the real short end of the stick. Only 16 of them qualify for the tour, but I guess it will give them a chance to hone their skills if they don't make it. Some of those guys that you were mad didn't make it are over the hill anyhow and probably shouldnt be on tour anymore. Its time for the new guys to show their stuff

I think there are plenty of local events that could become a qualifying tour/event process. It's a matter of coordination and agreement. There is very little cooperation between the large boat company sponsors for the different events. Mastercraft has the pro tour, Nautique the Masters, National and ???, Malibu the worlds, Centurion has Boardstock, and Tige has the US Open. In addition the all contribute to numerous local events. If they could work together and gain the cooperation of all the local dealers who sponsor events they could come-up with a better way to qualify- both the pros and juniors.

Wakeboarding in the USA has the money and the size to have two tours going - a Qualifying series and a Pro Championship Tour.

Please, do not underestimate Wakeboarding and its size in the USA. We all tend to "cop out" and say things like "Surfing has much more history" or "Surfing is much larger" blah blah blah... Surfing created an ASP Board (Association Of Surfing Professionals) and put together a plan - That plan being the WQS and the WCT. Then, once the plan was set, they solicited sponsors and created organic events. The last WQS contest was the "Body Glove Surfbout at Lower Trestles" It was sponsored by Body Glove and was a "4-Star" rated WQS event - perfect. Wake needs things like that. The boat companies and major brands have the revenue - they just need an organized presentation plan. With no option for these companies to commit marketing dollars, we end up getting what we have - A 1/2 planned weak Pro Tour with a lot of confusion and minimal impact and a LOT of local company sponsored contests & slider events.

I'd rather go ride with friends any day then go watch a pro event

"We all tend to "cop out" and say things like "Surfing has much more history"

Excellent post! Having grown up surfing Santa Cruz in the 70's-80's it amazing to see the transformation of that sport from the "soul surfer / extreme localism" mentality that it was then to the mainstream commercialized sport it is now. The great surfers of the past could only dream back then of actually making a living surfing and look where it's at now. As much as the local surf contests just weren't cool back then (well at least not up in Norcal) they were the foundation of the sport that it is today. The funny part is you never had to pay to watch the Coldwater Classic at the Lane so where did the money come from? (rhetorical question)

What I think they need to change is that say for the pro heats that one goes through per heat and in Jr. Mens that 2 go through per heat. I think it should be changed that the top say if there is 16 spots open then the top 16 scores from all the heats get through and same for Jr. Mens they should take the top 16 scores from all the heats and they are the riders that go through to the next round or qualify for the tour. This is the fairest way to do it and then the FANS the ones that pay to see a SHOW will get the real top riders in the nation. Just my .02 cents. I think there are alot of riders that made the tour, that really dont have the skills of alot of riders that dident make the tour. What do you all think?

Theres other competitions besides the pro tour.
For sure this quick elimination process right at the get go will bring more fanciful riders to other comps. Even smaller local comps(that pay cash of coarse).
Word has it, no more wakeboarding at the Xgames. It was replaced with RALLY RACING! Ya BO!

Shaun Murray just went heads up with Solven. To close for me to call, what a great heat. Murray is BACK!!!!!!!!!

Sweet!! Someone start posting whats going on!

yes, this needs pictures.

innov8, they could not use the top 16 scores because each heat scoring is based on the first rider in each heats score. 1st rider sets the bench mark for that heat. That's way the top scores are all over the board.

Craig, as I mentioned in the other thread, there are other opportunities for riders to get in throughout the year. Here's how it works...

The top 16 riders from last year qualify automatically and are seeded based on the final 2005 Pro Tour rankings.

The top 16 riders from yesterday's qualifying rounds are also seeded (17-32) based on the final 2005 Pro Tour rankings. If a rider didn't ride on the Pro Tour last year, they are seeded in alphabetical order.

This year, the competition if fully head-to-head. That means that the lowest seeded rider (Aaron Rathy according to my calculations) will start the day by going head to head with the top seeded rider (Josh Sanders). Seed #2 will take on seed #31 and so on in a tournament style format until one rider beats everyone he faces.

For the first event in Georgia this weekend, anybody that wanted to sign up for pro men was able do so and they rode in the qualifier yesterday. I believe there were about 80 riders. Even if 1000 riders had signed up, they could still only take 16 for this weekend's event, so that just would have meant bigger heats and more competition. Unfortunately, because of the huge number of competitors, there will always be some "big names" that don't qualify.

For those riders that did not make it through qualifying, they are encouraged to sign up for the rest of the Pro Tour stops because if someone who did qualify doesn't show up to one of the subsequent stops (and there are usually half a dozen or so that don't show for various reasons), they will take the next seeded rider (based on the same seeding as described above) from the second place qualifying finishers and allow them to take that spot. In this case, it would be Keith Lidberg because he is the highest seeded rider of the second place finishers in qualifying. If the rider doesn't get in, they get their money back.

According to my rough calculations (certainly not official), here is the ranking of the top 16 non-qulifying riders that could fill an open spot at the next tour stop.

Keith Lidberg
Jonathan Nadolski
Kyle Rattray
Scotty Broome
Jesson Vedel
Chris Law
Adam Fields
Marcelo Giardi
Gerry Nunn
Collin Wright
Clay Fletcher
Mike Marsh
Sean O'Brien
Travis Propst
Justin Savich

If this list is exhausted and there is still room for more riders, they would then rank the third place finishers from yesterday's qualifying and so on.

In addition, each tour stop will have a mini-qualifier dubbed the challenge round where four additional pro riders will have a chance to qualify for each event.

Hopefully that answers all your questions.

David, I think that the alternet spots are filled by first come first serve sign up. I know that's how it is in Jr. Men's and I thought in Pro as well.

I don't know about Jr. Men, but what I just outlined above is how it's done for the pros. That's straight from Chris Bischoff's lips.

There are now 32 riders who have qualified for the pro tour. These 32 have slots for the next tournament. The tour has 4 slots open to invite whoever they want for a total of 36.

If one of the 32 does not make it due to injury or does not register within 2 weeks of date then a slot(s) open up. They will go to whoever registered first for this tournament and not by pro rankings. It could be a 40 year old fat guy from Albany, it doesn't matter, it's whoever registered first.

Afetr that tournament they will use the top 32 riders in the point standings to fill the Kelowna stop with 4 invites. The same scenario will play out as above. So it is possible and does happen that the original 32 qualifiers from this weekend could and will change.

The riders at risk are those who received 25th place points. Those are the riders who qualified but finished 4th Saturday's first round. If they finish last in their first heat in MN and one of the invited riders does well they will be passed up in point standings and lose their guaranteed spot.

Same is true for Jr men and wakeskate except they don't have the 4 invite rule. If you understand all this you have earned 3 credit hours in non applied logic.

Someone could start a new thread called "pro tour suggestions" or "pro tournament" suggestions. Positive ideas on what would be good for the sport. Remember, the Pro Tour is only 5 (albeit very important) of the several tournaments. I think the pro tour is a needed tour and is crucial to Jr men which is the feeder system.

My explanation above is straight from Chris Bischoff. Should I tell him that he doesn't understand how his own Pro Tour's qualifying works!

David, From the 06 pro tour rule book, rule # 2.05,
"Once the 34 position two week deadline has passed, entries will be accepted on a first come first serve basis, until the 36 competitor field is reached without concideration for position or ranking list"

wow theres some big names on that list you posted dave