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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-30-2010, 8:48 PM Reply   
What do you think the outcome will be?
Old    deltahoosier            06-30-2010, 9:10 PM Reply   
Doesn't matter. The idiots of the bay area will riot. I say close them in and let them kill themselves.
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-30-2010, 9:54 PM Reply   
if the jury doesnt see him guilty than i dont know what murder is. he killed him point plank multiple times. it was not self defensed and he was trained and knew what he was doing.
Old     (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-30-2010, 10:11 PM Reply   
If he's not guilty,instant riot in Oakland.
If he's guilty,slow peaceful march,immediatly followed by wild party in the streets,that turns into a riot.

It's a win/win for Oakland.
Old    wakeridinrob            06-30-2010, 10:22 PM Reply   
can we close this thread? Dangerous territory....
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-01-2010, 12:20 AM Reply   
It's the biggest fad in California. Rioting for any reason. Given Rodney King, Laker championships, whatever; then you have a riot.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-01-2010, 12:32 AM Reply   
The underclass of society welcomes any reason to riot. So, a riot is likley.

But, regarding the verdict, the cop either made a big mistake or he is nut case. Either way, he should pay.

IMO, its murder 2 unless the cop can prove that it was a mistake and then it becomes man slaughter.
Old     (jps912)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-01-2010, 8:10 AM Reply   
Hopefully no one riots because living Berkeley its awful close to me haha.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-01-2010, 8:29 AM Reply   
I don't believe for a second that he intended to pull his gun and execute a guy laying facedown in front of several other people and cops.

I believe he made a mistake and that he shouldn't be convicted of murder. Maybe he should pay either way, but I don't think he should spend his life in prison for a mistake, if that is the case. I think it's unfair to expect cops in these situations to not make mistakes, which is why you should do what the tell you, especially if you're a known pistol-packer.
Old    deltahoosier            07-01-2010, 8:55 AM Reply   
Not even close to Murder 2 and Mitch. I don't even know what you are talking about. Killed him point blank multiple times? Not to be brash but I don't think you know what murder is. Sounds like you don't even know what happened in the case. He shot once when a officer when using a gun is trained to shoot more than once. They just got the tasers that week and were not trained that well on them. Of course the jury did not get to hear that this guy has priors and did time in jail. Not sure if it would have mattered or not. Depends if they called in his ID and it came back that he is a ex-con. If there is justice, he either gets involuntary or worst case voluntary. Involuntary if he screwed up but did everything else by the book. Voluntary if he violated procedures. From the small amount I heard in the papers, it sounds like he followed procedures and just screwed up but I am sure the people in Oakland will take it differently.

At the end of the day, do as a officer asks. You put people into places where mistakes can happen.

Stay away from Oakland this weekend if they have a verdict.
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-01-2010, 9:09 AM Reply   
I would say just stay away from Oakland anytime...
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-01-2010, 1:25 PM Reply   
I like oakland. Like every other big city, it has nice areas, and ghetto. Many parts of Oakland are gorgeous, and the climate is perfect.
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-01-2010, 1:53 PM Reply   
You're Crazy J-Rod, but I still love you!
Old     (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-01-2010, 4:18 PM Reply   
Forget Oakland. I saw some of the WORST neighborhoods of my life in SF this weekend. Maybe I'm from the suburbs and I'm naive.. but damn.. seeing people dealing crack on the open street in front of cops is not something I'm prepared for, at all.

I never thought I'd miss Sacramento.. but damn it.. it happened!
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-01-2010, 5:01 PM Reply   
I'm not a cop hater or lover, but I have to ask, for those that think he just "made a mistake," what do you think the punishment should be?

I know the knee jerk reaction to what I'm about to say is that it's apples to oranges, but the end result is the same, someone lost their life that didn't have to. What is the difference between this guy's mistake and lets say Joe Average who gets behind the wheel after having a few too many and kills someone? I'm willing to bet if you ask Joe Average, he'd say the same thing, that he made a mistake and/or had a lapse in judgement, but like I said, the end result is the same.

If the Dept. just gave them tasers that week and "they weren't trained on them very well yet," isn't this somewhat the dept.'s fault as well? If it truely was a "mistake?"

Personally, I doubt this guy was out to cold blood murder some hood rat. If he was, he certainly would've chosen a better place than a busy train station with dozens of witnesses, video cameras, etc.....Having said that, his "mistake" cost somebody their life (no matter of his background) and IMO, he deserves Man1.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-01-2010, 5:20 PM Reply   
This is how we keep it real in Dallas, not sure if this made the national news or not for those of you in CA.

On Fathers Day, the newly appointed Chief of Dallas Police's son was hopped up on PCP, shot and killed an innocent young father of two in front of his wife and 2 young children while they were driving through an apt. complex to visit his sister. He then shot and killed the first responding officer before backup officers responded and killed him.

As if that isn't WTF enough, the new Chief of Dallas Police authorized a police escort for his sons funeral procession. Seriously.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       07-01-2010, 5:49 PM Reply   
drinking and driving is WAAAAAAY different than what happened here. drinking and driving is selfish and you know the what could happen when you are driving while impaired. having an officer untrained on a new weapon is dangerous, but no way did this officer murder anyone. if he is convicted of murder, that is going to open the books on every other case where an officer shot and killed a criminal who was not obeying orders.
I hope they find him not guilty, and oakland burns. that place could use a fresh start anyways.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-01-2010, 6:22 PM Reply   
So what if any punishment should this officer face in your opinion? None? Go back to work? Let the scum of Oakland all burn? lol
Old     (baldboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-01-2010, 7:37 PM Reply   
Yes Train and Yes Stanfield. But he should go to work for the Border Patrol in Arizona.
Old     (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2010, 8:07 PM Reply   
Stanfield, to draw a comparison to drunk driving is awful. A better comparison would be driving, having some idiot blow a red light, you tee bone him and kill him. How many of you have been stopped by the police at 2AM? How many of you are convicted felons on parole?

This guy will never be a cop anywhere again. He'll likely go to prison. And why, the court system is too concern with the political pressure of the ghetto riot. He's guilty of involuntary manslaughter, nothing more. For anyone calling this murder 1 or 2, go back to community college and pay close attention in CJ101.

Pay attention when they talk about Mens rea, Actus reus, Concurrence, and elements of crimes.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-01-2010, 8:36 PM Reply   
Jeff, you're right. Officers should be allowed to kill felons at their discretion.
Old    deltahoosier            07-01-2010, 9:17 PM Reply   
Not a cop hater or lover but you seem to be arguing against the cop. I know of a guy who killed our neighbors mom and boy friend on 4th of July weekend around 3 years ago. The guy decided to cross a double yellow because he knew he could get a jump down a straight away (he was on his commute to work). Pulled around the car in front of him and hit both of them on the motorcycle. He did not get a day of jail. He made a illegal act and killed someone. What should he got?

The cop in question should never work in the field again and the family is going to receive a sum of money to make their life better. That should be it.

It is not like some guy who was doing as he was told and the cop just shot him. The guy was resisting being cuffed. Especially as a ex con, he should have known better. He was not innocent in this. Granted he did not deserve to be shot but he forced the officer to take an action. I guess I don't understand why people think they should argue and resist someone who has a gun anyway. Are people just born stupid? You force action by someone carrying a gun and you are already a half step away from big trouble. Add a new weapon in the mix and you have trouble. I think the whole thing sucks. No one likes this but to say that the officer murdered that guy is wrong.

It does not matter what the verdict is going to be. Thug are already talking about how they are going to try and beat up white people on the trains and telling station agents better not show up to work. The local news papers are trying to incite hostilities. National Guard is already on standby. Going to be fun. Thugs looking to be thugs and are going to get jacked.
Old     (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       07-01-2010, 9:31 PM Reply   
I know the EOC (Emergency Operation Center) down here is on stand bye for the verdict. And we'll be sending 8 police officers to Oakland and Morgan Hill well be sending 4 officers to Oakland. We're expecting Riots wether he is found guilty or not! The little information i have recieved so far is Alameda Island well be a huge staging area as thats where all our officers are going and San Fransisco will be the other staging area but not sure where there. Its an unfortunate situation I believe the officer made an honest mistake that cost someone their life. While there should be punishment i don't feel murder or manslaughter is appropriatte. I believe he should no longer be able to be an offficer as he has a hard time performing his job duties. If he was uncomfortable with his new taser or the operation of it he should have taken it upoun himself to familarize himself with his new weapon. BART will have to pay a huge settlement and that well be that. If he is found guilty of anything at all negligent manslaughter would be as far as i could imagine it going. Anything more will be a miscarraige of justice and a verdict based on the fear of backlash from the black community.
Old     (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-01-2010, 9:33 PM Reply   
In six other incidents, cops have mistaken their gun for their Taser and shot a suspect. None of those cops were tried for Murder. However, I think the way the aftermath was handled, and maybe public pressure, caused the District Attorney to charge Mehresele with murder. In all of those other incidents, the cops gave statements right away that they made a mistake. Mehresele remained silent. That was probably his downfall.

Blaming this on inadequate training isn't fair. Hundreds of thousands of cops had the exact same training. It's standardized by TASER Intl. What occurred was an inexperienced cop in a stressful situation and got confused. Murder 2 - no way. But I would not be surprised if this came back with manslaughter.
Old     (clubjoe)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-02-2010, 1:03 PM Reply   
Not guilty if politics haven't soiled the jury....... Shouldn't qualify as murder, and the D.A. should know that B4 they swing for the bleachers.

The civil stuff is what's gonna bury BART, imo....
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-02-2010, 1:23 PM Reply   
"He made a illegal act and killed someone. What should he got?"

Manslaughter and some time in the pen, just like I think this LEO should get.

I went to HS with a guy that got drunk on senior prom night and proceeded to drive his car into a tree killing his HS sweetheart, he walked away uninjured. Just like in this case, the DA tried for murder. The jury didn't convict, and when it was all said and done, he basically walked away from it all. When accidents happen and someone dies, murder is a bit much, but these people need to do some time on it IMO. I dunno, the system is flawed, I certainly don't have the answers. We'll lock people up for selling pot, but make a mistake and kill somebody and we're somehow sympathetic. I don't get it.
Old     (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-02-2010, 3:18 PM Reply   
Oakland will riot this weekend if he gets acquitted or if he gets life. Doesn't matter. Let him off in my opinion. His life is ruined already. He'll always have to watch his back living in Alaska in a protection program. I like to party on new years too. I just make sure I don't put myself in a position to get tazered, shot or arrested.....

If it was a black cop and a white victim I'd still feel the same way. Tragic situation all the way around.
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-08-2010, 5:22 PM Reply   
Looks like he's guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

That seems right looking at all the facts of this case and that it seems the cop thought he pulled his tazer gun rather than gun. Since it was a guilty verdict of just involuntary manslaughter, though, I'm not sure if that means the usual rioting and looting in 'protest' or not.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       07-08-2010, 5:46 PM Reply   
"A white former transit officer was convicted of involuntary manslaughter Thursday in the shooting death of an unarmed black man"

I thought the media did not have any bias at all?? even though he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, they still refuse to call it an "accidental shooting".

sentence should read: A former transit officer was convicted of involuntary manslaughter Thursday in the accidental shooting death of an ex-con who was refusing officers orders to surrender.
Old    deltahoosier            07-08-2010, 5:59 PM Reply   
Now they have some islam guy up there speaking for the family. Not a single word from the press about this guys criminal past/ prison record or the fact that his father is not there because he himself is in prison. If you are going to try and report, they at least should tell everyone all the facts instead of trying to get crap started. Why is it every time something happens to a black person it is a outrage for the black community but hear nothing about these gang bangers and the travesty that the everyday life does to the black community. I can understand the frustration of the family but having the idiot attorney up there completely ignoring the skeletons in there own closet is horrible. This could be a great venue to bring all communities together but they will continue to use it to divide.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-08-2010, 6:09 PM Reply   
Delta, did you even read the article that Bret posted? They mentioned very specifically that Grant was recently released on a weapons charge and that his father was in the pen.
Old     (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-08-2010, 6:20 PM Reply   
Old    deltahoosier            07-08-2010, 6:51 PM Reply   
No. I kind of watched the live local news that was/ is reporting it live in the local area and read the local news websites regarding the issue and the people my wife gets to hear at her work. The people in question don't exactly strike me as yahoo news readers.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       07-08-2010, 7:42 PM Reply   
On Bart right now from SFO. Hope I make it home!
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       07-08-2010, 10:04 PM Reply   
wow, what a shocker they bashed in a Foot Locker and "stole stuff" god what a bunch BS.
Old     (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-09-2010, 9:50 AM Reply   
Looting footlocker and jewelry stores. You couldn't write this stuff. This is the exact same mentality that put Oscar Grant in the situation where he got shot. I can only hope they lose their civil suit. And how the hell does a cop get gun enhancement charges? All cops should threaten to stop carrying guns because they are worried about ending up in prison if they have to use it. The threat alone would get them to drop that charge. I hope all of the cops out there understand that this could have just as easily have been them.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       07-09-2010, 10:00 AM Reply   
was watching news from LA last night regarding this. not sure how many protestors said the same thing, but it was funny how they kept saying the cop shot oscar grant in the back of the head for no reason. not sure if any of these people protesting knew anything at all about the events from that night or not. how many witnesses were there that night who heard the officer say he was going to taze him, and then gave statements saying the officer looked shocked immediately after his weapon went off. not sure how anyone can think there was anything malicious about this whole incident. this was clearly an accident, and should be a harsh reminder that you DO NOT resist an officer.

glad to see the black community is taking it all in stride though.
Old    deltahoosier            07-09-2010, 10:08 AM Reply   
I think the gun enhancement is BS. How can you have a gun enhancement when you are required to carry. Lot's of good cops are going to think 2 or 3 times before showing up for a call. Nothing like showing up for a report after the case and I would not blame them one bit. People just do not understand cause and effect.

Good thing there was not a Fubu outlet. They would have taken the whole building. I don't know why but this whole thing pisses me off down to the core. All I see is the continued crap from these animals. They don't give a crap that over 100 people a year are gunned down in their city and hundred plus in the city next to them and so on. Let one ex con resist arrest and a cop makes a horrible mistake and they take to the streets. Does anyone else see the craziness in this? Then it gets me to think about the other political lies that people put out and it pisses me off. We are dealing with people who have no clue how the world works and love to treat right as wrong and wrong as right and we have a whole country of people who vote with them. I can't stand it. I am tired of all the dishonesty from these groups of people.
Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       07-09-2010, 10:30 AM Reply   
Maybe we should remind those clowns in Oakland of the four WHITE cops murdered by a BlACK resident last year, ***** happens stop making this out to be a racial issue.

I agree with the verdict, he should do some time for his stupid mistake but no way was that murder.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-09-2010, 11:40 AM Reply   
The verdict was spot on. The jury did their job perfectly and the police did a great job restricting chaos from our pathetic american underclass.

This should be the message of the day.
Old    deltahoosier            07-09-2010, 12:11 PM Reply   
I have yet to hear any support of all the law enforcement people who have to clean up this mess and have had to work manditory 12 hr shifts and I know one who was held over 24 hrs at work to cover. All the people who see them and threaten them. The threats of violence against white people. No mention of the racism in the community that is faced outward. The media is more of a problem than anything around here.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       07-09-2010, 10:43 PM Reply   
I agree with the verdict. And yes, there are some clowns in Oakland, however the majority of Oaklanders are not these idiots, and the majority of these idiots are not Oaklanders:

In the days before the close of the murder trial for Johannes Mehserle, the former police officer who killed Oscar Grant, the Bay Area was abuzz with "concern" about Oakland. What would those people in Oakland do if they weren't happy with the verdict? Would they riot? Would there be looting?

Well, there were a number of people in Oakland who weren't happy with the verdict of involuntary manslaughter. And there were instances of violence and looting in Oakland - despite the best efforts of community leaders to keep the protests peaceful and nondestructive.

It must be noted that about 75 percent of those arrested on suspicion of crimes after the verdict Thursday were from outside of Oakland, according to Police Chief Anthony Batts. Many of them are anarchists. From their alleged actions, it is difficult to believe that they were interested in the case, or, for that matter, the city of Oakland.

For the residents of Oakland who assembled to peacefully protest the verdict, the actions of these few are insulting and unfair. They besmirch the reputation of the city, which is often unfairly cast as a violent cauldron, ready to blow at the least provocation.

The truth is that for months, community and civic leaders encouraged residents to participate in peaceful protests. For the most part, they succeeded. The small group of outsiders who decided to smash things didn't draw in the rest of the city. Instead, they were isolated in a one-block area, doing their destruction on their own.

Unfortunately, that's not the story that most people will remember when they think back on this event in the years to come. Instead, they'll remember that Oakland reacted "violently," or with "riots." They won't remember that a band of troublemakers came in from out of town because they were looking for an excuse to cause trouble. Oakland deserves a better story.

The best way for Oakland residents to get that story is to continue doing what the vast majority of them did Thursday - protest peacefully, act constructively and refuse to be drawn into the shenanigans of those who want to be part of the problem, not the solution.

Read more:
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       07-10-2010, 12:16 AM Reply   
I won't remember oakland residents rioting. I will remember oakland residents breaking into a foot locker to steal some new sneaks though.
the anarchists are used to help incite the riots, but they rarely, if ever will loot and steal like the oakland residents did. if oakland police actually cares, they will be making many more arrests once they start identifying the losers stealing shoes from foot locker, or ice cream from a coffee shop. classy folks up there.
Old     (jps912)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-10-2010, 9:11 AM Reply   
^^Just curious where you found it stated that Oakland residents specifically were looting foot locker and other stores. I haven't seen that stated in any article and I'm just curious if you are just assuming that or if there is some factual information to back that claim up.
Old    deltahoosier            07-10-2010, 9:38 AM Reply   
At the Fruitvale station, there was a guy out front selling sneakers on Friday if I heard the wife correctly. Anarchist usually are not in it for the money.
Old    deltahoosier            07-10-2010, 9:46 AM Reply   
Also to note. I would love to see the people in Oakland out marching every time one of them kills each other. The night of the verdict there were two more separate murders in the city. Not a single peep from the citizens or the mayor. Instead they like to worship some guy who just got out of prison for a gun violation and from what I heard is also a gang banger. A guy who's own father is currently in prison. A guy who through his actions forced a mistake from a guy who was just trying to do his job. According to those animals, the guy who made the mistake is a reason to march and play the blame game. They are going to go at it again if the Judge throws out the gun enhancement charge like he should. Then it will get bigger. These people are not for non violence. They are the violence.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-10-2010, 10:14 AM Reply   
"A guy who's own father is currently in prison."

So if a guy's father is in prison, that makes him a gang banger?

Just curious, because you have mentioned that multiple times.
Old     (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-10-2010, 11:03 AM Reply   
Foot Locker and Jewery stores
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       07-10-2010, 11:06 AM Reply   
like delta said, the "professional anarchists" are not in it for the money. they are the ones inciting the crowds. they are not the ones climbing through broken windows stealing sneakers. they are too smart for that.
Old    deltahoosier            07-10-2010, 11:19 AM Reply   
You sure like to put words in people mouth don't you. He was a gang banger because well he was in prison himself for being well.... a gang banger. He was in prison for a gun violation. At the time of the shooting had recently got out of prison and him and his boys were basically on the F'ed up train on New Years night. All the people out partying ride BART from the city after a night of partying on New Years. BART actually keeps service longer to accomidate the people who do go to the city to party. He was on that train and all the drunk people around did not help the situation. The point of the father being in prison as well is a condemnation that the whole family is bad eggs and not people to be worshiped and held up as martyr for justice. They act like this guy was some loving black father who was always their for his child that was gunned down in cold blood by some race hating white cop. You have a side trying to paint the police as some repressive regime trying to keep the community down that gets away with murder. They see zero wrong with what the victim was doing that helped cause this issue and have said on national TV that they are a family of non violent people who's loving son was murder for no reason. I call BS on all counts. They fact that two adult males in the house were in prison speaks volumes of what type of people they are and non violent does not seem to be one of the things that comes to mind.

The end of the day. No one in the community that supposedly cares about this issue gives a crap enough to march in regards to the nearly a murder every 3 night average in the city. They did not care enough to march when 3 or 4 Oakland cops were gunned down in broad daylight in their city. Throw some ex con who forced a guy into a tragic mistake into the mix and it is a reason to march? I call BS. The cops side of the story needs to be told and people really need to get educated on what kind of animals are out their that these guys have to deal with. It is every day someone trying to size them up and look to get ahead on them. It is nearly every day the press is trying to write some article painting them as some sort of devil. Every time something happens in the Bay Area, the cops are either racists or out of control knuckle draggers according the news. I don't believe every cop is virtuous by any means and I get pissed at them too but when I see dishonesty, I need to call it out and this whole shooting deal is dishonest.
Old     (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-10-2010, 6:36 PM Reply   
Ah, good ol' Oakland. There was a longer version of this video which was deleted by youtube and it all started with the girl in pink (who is pregnant) fighting against some other girl. The guy w/ the camera claims this is happening because of the verdict or some crap. Things settle a bit then the girl in pink hits a minivan that pulls up. The people inside the van don't like this and the girl in pink runs inside and grabs a high chair and throws it at them. That's where this video picks up. Super classy all the way around.

NSFW language

Old    deltahoosier            07-10-2010, 7:30 PM Reply   
absolute animals. This is everyday. Between the press and the people, why the heck would you want to be a cop. Oakland police, please do not show up for these people anymore. Let them be to themselves. Let the people of Oakland have what they want and deserve. All I ask is keep them contained to their border.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       07-11-2010, 2:27 PM Reply   
Kudos to this Oakland cop:
Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       07-11-2010, 3:17 PM Reply   
Let that fawking city burn, god damn animals
Old     (dave23)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-17-2010, 8:05 PM Reply   
BART's in the news again.
Old    deltahoosier            07-18-2010, 8:30 PM Reply   
Sounds like another thug got popped.

The end of the article should have mentioned that the last episode happened when the BART a officers pulled several gang members off the train.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       07-18-2010, 9:55 PM Reply   
Even thugs from Tuolomne feel drawn to Oakland lol.

"Three CHP vehicles had their windows shot out, but no officers were shot, police said. They said the driver was armed with a rifle and a shotgun as well as the handgun and fired at least two of the weapons during the shootout.

Morgan said the driver was hit numerous times and survived only because he was wearing a bullet-resistant vest."

She said he had been released from prison about 2 1/2 years ago after a felony conviction, which she declined to describe, and had almost completed his parole.

"He hasn't been able to get a job because he's an ex-felon and nobody will hire him," she said.

She said her son, who had been a carpenter and a cabinetmaker before his imprisonment, was angry about his unemployment and about "what's happening to our country."

Williams watched the news on television and was upset by "the way Congress was railroading through all these left-wing agenda items," his mother said.
Old     (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-12-2013, 7:24 PM Reply   
Time to go see the movie
Old    deltahoosier            07-15-2013, 3:19 PM Reply   
Well, how was it?


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