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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through September 10, 2007

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Old    mendo247            08-06-2007, 4:56 PM Reply   

quote:

The power may feel soft but when you line up next to any one of the three in bone stock fashion, the new 08 supeduty will walk away from all of them.




HMMM.. Thats a pretty bold statement.. My buddy has one coming in the next couple weeks, well have to line em up!
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-06-2007, 4:59 PM Reply   
James,

Have you read the 24-page comparision on www.pickuptruck.com of the the 2007 GM, Ford and Dodge 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks? They came to a different conclusion.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout1.html
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-06-2007, 5:14 PM Reply   
Sorry to interrupt...I found an '05 Duramax 4x4 Crew LT with 51,000 miles on it for $30,995.

Thing is my current vehicle is an '05 F-150 Supercrew with 25,000 miles on it, so I would be doubling my mileage! I plan on keeping my next vehicle (diesel) for a while.

I guess my question is do diesels last longer than gas engines? Is 50,000 miles nothing to be concerned about? If you were me would you hold out for something around 30,000 miles?
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-06-2007, 5:22 PM Reply   
50,000 miles on a diesel is hardly even broken in!!!! I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a diesel that's a good deal even pushing 70 to 100k
Old    James B (slmracer9)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-06-2007, 5:28 PM Reply   
I can only talk about the f250 with the diesel because that is what I have. This article they tested the 250 with the v10 and the 1 ton with a diesel. Once your into the 1 ton category it seems like the F450 is a step above the rest in towing capability and other options. Plus this is the only truck of this size that can legally tow these 40 and 45' weekend warriors that are so popular in california.
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-06-2007, 6:20 PM Reply   
The only real difference between the 3/4-ton and 1-ton is the rear suspension to give more payload capacity. Usually, thier tow rating is the same unless it's a dually.

The point I was making is that the 6.4L diesel in the Ford is hardly the best thing about a F250 or F350. They actually prefered the Triton V10 to it in many ways. Comparing diesels in a 3/4-ton or 1-ton class, the F250 will not run away from a Ram 2500 or Silverado 2500HD. The V10 is more powerfull than the Dodge or GM V8 gas engines but that's not the debate.

The F450 is not a 1-ton truck so it's not a fair comparision to the Ford, GM, or Dodge 1-tons.

I'm not saying the F250 is not a great truck. I'm saying that the post 7.3L Ford diesels are hardly the best point about the truck and that I and apparently that article believe the new GM Duramx/Allision is a superior truck.

You know what's funny about this thread is that's another on here about smaller trucks pulling boats where everyone and thier brother has boasted about towing boats with 1/4-ton SUVs and we're debating 3/4-ton diesels.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-06-2007, 6:45 PM Reply   
^^^^
Unless Dodge and Chevy are different, the difference is 1000lb difference on GVWR between the 250 and and 350, and that makes a huge difference when your near the legal maximum of of GVWR and GCWR.

Also if the 6.4 from Ford was the most tested engine ever, they should have found the problems with the "flamethrower." Also the boys from RV Net are not impressed and are not getting the best mileage.

While I agree with the quiet ride and interior on the 08' Ford, mileage and the early problems will keep me away.
Old    James B (slmracer9)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-06-2007, 9:18 PM Reply   
are chevy's still torsion bars?
Old    stillstandin            08-06-2007, 10:53 PM Reply   
Yes...and whoever made the comment about the 6.4 walking away from the other two.. Wrong, unloaded, loaded it doesnt matter. A duramax LBZ, or LMM will walk away from a 6.4. Its been proven a few times. Just saw a absolute bone stock 07 crew cab classic edition 4X4 run a 15.8 in the quarter the other night at the track.

All of them are good trucks, I would not hesitate buying any of them. I chose the GM because of the Duramax, Allison combo. But the ford dealership in my town has a terrible reputation.
Old    Ryan (bull)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-06-2007, 11:48 PM Reply   
bb12- Couple of things to check on that dmax:

1) any power mods to it?
2) what size are the tires - anything over a 245 means that it has higher miles than what it reads
3) maintenance records - make sure that he has changed the allison spin on, fuel filter (twice), and the front and rear diff fluid after break-in. Any meticulous diesel owner will have all of those records.

As for 50k - the dmax will go 300k easy depending on if you keep it stock or not. The allison is a good trans but can't handle too much over 100hp in stock form. If you get a built trans the combo will take 450 rwhp all day long.
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-07-2007, 7:47 AM Reply   
Ryan, as far as I know it is completely bone stock from tire size to engine. It is at a dealer about 45 minutes from where I live so I will email them. Here is a pic:
Upload
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-07-2007, 8:34 AM Reply   
Okay, the tires are 265s, no engine mods and maintenance records available.

Will the 265s make a huge difference in mileage?
Old    Ryan (bull)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-07-2007, 9:31 AM Reply   
The 265's won't affect mileage much at all. If you plan to tow a heavy 5ver check to make sure they are a load range E tire. If you are just going to pull the boat then a load range D will be fine.

If they have all maintenance records and it's otherwise stock it looks like a good deal. If you wanted to you can install the newer '06+ extending mirrors so you can see around the boat. They run about 350ish and are a direct swap out.

One last thing you can do is to run a VIN check on it at http://dieselplace.com/forum/index.php. There is a forum topic where you can ask one of the members to run a history report on it. Just another bit of insurance to see the vehicles history.

-Ryan
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-07-2007, 9:45 AM Reply   
I would probably be just towing the boat.

The only mods I would do is put 285s and rims on it, maybe a programmer chip, and maybe maybe put a navigation/cd/dvd deck in it.

It has a CARFAX history report and everything looks good. Its just a matter of if I want to pull the trigger and let go of the Ford
Old    Ryan (bull)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-07-2007, 9:00 PM Reply   
There are a ton of great guides on the diesel site I listed. Right now I've got a nav unit from a denali in my truck and it works really well. I wanted to keep mine stock since i program mine with a laptop. If you go aftermarket then you have to pull fuses in order to reporgram the ecm.

Keep me posted on what you choose to do. Drop me a pm if you want any more info or help - just in case I lose track of this thread.
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-09-2007, 12:00 PM Reply   
Just wanted to post another pic of her for the hell of it!
Upload
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-01-2007, 9:01 PM Reply   
I FINALLY made a deal on the above and below Duramax...Thanks for all your help and input!


Upload
Old    Sam Aikele (atropine)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-02-2007, 8:48 AM Reply   
Congrats. Nice truck. My dad has that same truck (05, white, except his is an extended cab, not a quad cab). He gets about 20-21 mpg on the highway (which is virtually all of his driving), and has gotten as much as 22-24 unloaded on some trips (this is according to his own calculations, not the trip computer). But he is an ex-semi truck driver and drives his D-max gently like he used to drive the semi. He accelerates gently and lets off the right pedal way early. He has been over 120,000 miles without needing any brake work yet.
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-02-2007, 8:55 AM Reply   
i got a chance to tow with a 06 ford f-250 and 06 chevy duramax... i preferred the chevy for a couple of reasons:

- Allison transmission (amazing)
- Chevy got better mileage 15 mpg vs 12 mpg
- nicer interior and feel
- Chevy seemed to have more power torque
Old    rG (canecorso)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-02-2007, 1:06 PM Reply   
For a guy thats looking to pull a 4500# boat 3 times a week, drive 22miles to work one way. Would you guys suggest I go with a desiel or gas truck? Is a 3/4 ton really needed or just nice to have. Not trying to hijack thread just curious since I am looking at posssibly buying the 2500hd or 1500z71.
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-02-2007, 2:49 PM Reply   
rG,

This thread is now over 100 posts and has probably about ran its course but you're probably still going to get responses telling you everything from they tow thier Malibu 247 with a Honda CRV just fine to guys using 1-ton diesels to tow their jet skis.

When you say 4500lbs, is that the dry weight or weight with all the gear, fuel, trailer, etc? A 1/2-ton will do it fine but yes a 3/4-ton diesel, or even gas will do it better. It's not all about the engine though. The trailer used will have an effect also, such as its tongue weight and brakes.

Do you plan to keep the truck or do you plan to buy another one in <5 years?

Rather than go into a page long thesis on why I would choose one over the other. I would simply offer this. No one has been able to tell me one advantage of a 1/2-ton over a 3/4-ton execpt for the upfront price. I say upfront price because resale value comes into play also.

You already know that the 3/4-ton Duramax will tow best and that the 3/4-ton gas when towing will ride better and be more in conrol when than the 1/2-ton.

So it really comes down to two things: money and is the HD truck as good or at least an acceptable daily driver?

Since you're looking at the GM trucks go drive them and see if the 3/4-ton is worse to drive than the 1/2-ton everyday and then make your decision. If it's not or if it's not significant then it's just a matter of money and you'll know which one to choose.
Old    rG (canecorso)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-02-2007, 3:42 PM Reply   
Chad- the 4500 is dry weight, no gear,gas etc. I'd assume total weight will be around 5200 loaded.

Reason I ask is this will be our first truck, we plan on spending 20-25k so this will put us into used territory.

We plan on keeping the truck for a long time or as long as it will last. Were going to try to test drive some this next week, that should clear up some questions.
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-02-2007, 4:31 PM Reply   
rG, you will fall in love with the diesel. I would think 20-25k should get you a nice '03-'04 Duramax crew or extended cab.
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-02-2007, 4:39 PM Reply   
Rg,

That's heavier than most boats on this website. My Malibu VLX's dry weight for instance is 3600 lbs. I once emailed Malibu and asked what that weight did not include and was told that in addition to obvious stuff such as fuel that it also did not include the tower or other options. The tower was 175lbs. 5200lbs is probably a good guess not including the trailer so add another 800-1000lbs for that at you're roughly 6000lbs which is about 70% of the maximum tow rating depending on the 1/2-ton truck. I would go with a 3/4-ton for the following reasons.

1. You stated you intended to keep the truck awhile and towing 6000+lbs 3 x week is not something I would want to do to a 1/2-ton truck for several years.

2. Resale will be better on a diesel

3. long-term relibilty will be better on a diesel and even if you don't get a diesel, the rest of the truck is built to be more durable. The only drawback to this is that very few people buy 3/4-ton trucks to be grocery getters and commuters so you need to know the history of the truck you're buying. A diesel should last you 200K+ miles before needing major repair. The new Cummins diesels are predicted to go 350,000 miles before needing overhaul. They don't even predict how long a gas engine will last.

4. MPG. Towing or not a diesel will get better milage. Apples to apples, GM trucks usually get better milage. Towing 3 x week plus a 44 mile round-trip daily commute and fuel adds up.

5. The truck will have a higher GVWR and be able to handle more boat. How fast you accelerate is optional, how fast you stop while controlling the load is not always optional.

I would look at 03' and older Ford F250 with the 7.3L diesel. I own a Dodge now but frankly they weren't too civilized back prior to 03'. An 03'-04' Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel is a great choice if that appeals to you. They're Quadcab is not as large as the Ford truck either which has it's advantages, such as a much tigher turning radius. I didn't like the GM trucks interiors back then either but a friend of mine does have 04' Silverdao 2500HD that's a good truck. If I was buying a new one today though it would be a GM.

For $20-$25K I would go with a really clean, 02-03' Ford F250. Most people say to stay away from the 04' and the few late 03' with the 6.0L diesel. You should have no problem finding a clean 2003 F250 Lariat 4WD Diesel with less than 75K miles for $25K; that's what I would be looking for.

Once you get a truck you will never want to be without one again and you will find uses for your truck that you didn't anticiapate.

If you plan on lifting it or putting large tires on it, it's cheaper and easier if it's got solid axles instead of Independant Front Suspension so that's another advantage to the 3/4-tons.
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-04-2007, 7:43 AM Reply   
Finally got a chance to tow the boat with my new Duramax yesterday...one word "WOW". The difference between a gas and diesel tow vehicle is night and day. I couldn't even feel the boat behind me!
Old    rG (canecorso)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-04-2007, 8:29 AM Reply   
Thanks Chad-bb12 were going to go test drive some this week. Anyone have experience with the 1500hd?
Old    bb12 (bradenb12)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-05-2007, 10:56 AM Reply   
Anybody have any pics of a Chevy 2500 Duramax running 285/70/17s or 285/65/18s?
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-05-2007, 3:27 PM Reply   
My father-in-law traded his 1500HD 4WD in for a new 2007 2500HD 4WD. I think his 1500HD was a 04' model and I know it had the 6.0L gas engine. He owns a ranch and used the hell out of it, it was a solid truck. However, he has used my truck several times and each time has mentioned he is just amazed how well my Dodge Ram 1500 towed and that it was better than his 1500HD. For the record, it has the 5.7L Hemi, 4WD, and 3.93 gears.

I think what it's really going to come down for you is does the 2500 ride too harsh? If not then the choice should be easy.
Old    Ryan (bull)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-05-2007, 3:50 PM Reply   
Here's some pics:

285/65/18 on 18x9 ultra predators

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