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Old    keith (toofdog29)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-14-2007, 9:28 PM Reply   
I am a new 30d owner and got bit hard by the photo bug.. I have tried many different camera settings but I am struggling with shooting wakeboarding once the sun is over the mountain at my local lake.. Their is still light there but not bright light any tips would be welcome.. I am shooting with the ef 28-135 is usm lenses. Thanks
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       07-15-2007, 3:50 AM Reply   
shoot in Av mode, set the aperture wide open, and bump the iso between 400-1600, although you might get a little bit of noise with the higher ISO.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-15-2007, 8:28 AM Reply   
I stay in TV mode, crank the ISO up to max and then watch the meter to make sure I'm at max aperture. If the meter is showing gross under exposure then it's basically too dark and you need fill flash and/or a faster lens (70-200 f2.8L IS)

It's also a good time to use the spot meter that the 30D now offers or your rider will just go black. (fine for silhouette though) In the ISO 3200 shot below I was in evaluative metering so I dialed in +.7 EV because of the side lighting. Shoot RAW so you can pull detail out of the shadows and then run your adjusted version through a good noise reduction program like Noise Ninja and hope for the best.
Upload
Old    keith (toofdog29)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-15-2007, 11:15 AM Reply   
Thanks .. I have tried to shoot in both av and tv modes and have had small success with both I may need a flash were most of my shots are being taken. Although I haven't tried to bump the iso that high yet I think the highest iso I have used is 800?? I will try to dig up some examples for you Thanks again thats nice shot.. What's a good flash to use again I am new . . I looked at the 580 ex what are your thought's ??
Old    keith (toofdog29)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-15-2007, 11:34 AM Reply   
Camera Model Canon EOS 30D
Shooting Date/Time 7/12/2007 6:43:51 AM
Shooting Mode Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/1250
Av( Aperture Value ) 5.6
Metering Mode Center-Weighted Average Metering
Exposure Compensation 0
ISO Speed 250
Lens EF28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Focal Length 117.0 mm
Image Size 3504x2336
Image Quality Fine
Flash Off
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode AI Servo AF
Picture Style Standard
Color Space Adobe RGB
Noise Reduction Off
File Size 2731 KBUpload
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-15-2007, 9:13 PM Reply   
You've got plenty of light in that scene, the camera metered for the bright background which is exposed properly and the rider is under exposed. If you had spot metered on the rider or dialed up some positive EC the rider would have more detail. Center weighted metering helped but the camera is always going to err on the side of not over exposing anything. It's hard to get a shot like that right straight out of the camera - expose the rider properly and the BG is blown out. That's a prime candidate to shoot RAW, pull down the highlites and pull up the shadows or a flash would have made a big difference as well. Get as powerful a flash as you can afford - 580EX is good. See below I tried to pull up the shadow detail but it's tough on a highly compressed jpeg.Upload
Old    keith (toofdog29)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-15-2007, 10:52 PM Reply   
Yeah allot better.. What program are you using for your tweeking on the photos ? For the raw and jpeg?? I have a little expireince with corel photo x3 but other than that not sure what else to use. The program that comes with the camera digital photo pro is that good and I just havn't figured it out yet or is it junk ??? Thanks allot this is all helping me allot. I have taken some really good shots and some really bad ones so just trying to learn more and more. The camera goes out every time we ride.

Camera Model Canon EOS 30D
Shooting Date/Time 7/12/2007 6:43:26 AM
Shooting Mode Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/2000
Av( Aperture Value ) 5.6
Metering Mode Center-Weighted Average Metering
Exposure Compensation 0
ISO Speed 250
Lens EF28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Focal Length 95.0 mm
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode AI Servo AF
Color Space Adobe RGB
a little betterUpload
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-16-2007, 6:33 AM Reply   
I used the highlite/shadow sliders in Aperture but photoshop works fine as well.

Your second shot has even side sidelighting, easy for the camera to meter correctly.

I'd go back to evaluative metering though, I never liked that center weighted much.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-16-2007, 9:16 PM Reply   
That second shot looks a little soft, are you shooting with IS on? That's a no-no while panning with that lens as it's got first generation IS.
Old    keith (toofdog29)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2007, 10:40 PM Reply   
Yeah you got me.. I didn't know that.. I use the is for everything??? I thought all it could do is help.... I have a a lot to learn!! But its fun learning.. That being said if Invest in a new lense say 70-200 2.8 or 4l is or no is ..... Is it worth the money?? the l series has a better is or am i wrong ?? Thanks again critique away all help welcome
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-17-2007, 12:54 AM Reply   
keith- this is a great thread...

i ran into the same exact thing with my 30d and 70-200 f4 IS at san v....

somthing i got from matt is to use 1 shot focus vs ai servo focus... it seems to work a little better...
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-17-2007, 8:24 AM Reply   
At those shutter speeds IS doesn't help anyhow so I turn it off even on my 70-200 f4L which has the very latest version. IS is worth having though for all your regular shooting at 200mm at normal shutter speeds.

As far as 1 shot vs aiservo unless the camera is having trouble tracking then it would be more likely to give you good focus in 1 shot mode on a 30D. Shooting from a tow boat the rider distance is pretty constant which minimizes the need for tracking anyhow.
Old    Bakes (bakes5)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-17-2007, 9:11 AM Reply   
I would switch to manual exposure mode on this. Set your shutter speed what you want then play with the ISO and the aperture until you get the exposure you are looking for. Using the camera's exposure recommendations and then chimping a couple of test shots you can dial in exactly what you are looking for. In fact, a pretty good exercise to actually learn how to use your camera is to shoot in manual mode only for a little while for everything. It will force you to start evaluating shots and making the adjustments you want. With digital, the learning curve is very quick.

The better lens is almost always worth the money

Later

Bakes
Old    keith (toofdog29)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-17-2007, 10:59 PM Reply   
Yeah I will have to try again I tried the one shot first then went to servo and thought I saw improvement.... But yeah the canyon at san v is tough because there is light but a shadow from the mountain??? so it sounds like a 70-200 f4l may not be the magic answer for me so I need to experiment some more ... I did try the manuel mode a little and had the same results some shots good and some not so good more not good .. I think my iso was way to low that is the first thing I am going to try .. Thanks I appreciate everyone's help I am open for suggestions .. The one shot mode I am going to set again for sure to give it another try...
Old    Chris Anthony (cmawsr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-18-2007, 9:28 PM Reply   
You should not need to refocus from the boat. Focus once and forget it(kinda) I like to recheck from time to time, but the rider is always the same distance. If you are using the shutter button as focus then you can turn AF off after getting initial focus. I use the star button to achieve focus, I much prefer this but some don't like it. This allows separate shutter release and AF. Focusing on every shot in a situation like this might be causing oof problems also, as the af may achieve focus on the wake or something else and you may not realize it.
The 70-200F4L is an awesome wake lens
Old    Antbug (antbug)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-18-2007, 10:05 PM Reply   
Chris ~ That only works if you are in the middle of the boat. If you are on the driver side of the boat and the rider is on the passenger side you are at a further distance than if the rider is on the driver side. I also use the "star" button for my focus.

Keith ~ just keep shooting and you will get it. Everyone is offering awesome advice.
Old    Chris Anthony (cmawsr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-18-2007, 10:14 PM Reply   
True, didn't think of that as I usually shoot from the middle of the boat
Old    richard holmgren (gundogg)      Join Date: Feb 2004       07-19-2007, 4:26 PM Reply   
Wow...you guys shoot with some high ISO settings. I always thought you should keep those as low as the shot will allow.

Is it really better to run a high ISO and then adjust the shutter speed and Aperature to what the shot requires?
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-19-2007, 5:45 PM Reply   
"Is it really better to run a high ISO and then adjust the shutter speed and Aperature to what the shot requires?"

It's always better to set your desired aperture / shutter first and then only use enough ISO to expose properly. The problem is keeping your shutter speed up there in magic light without dialing up some ISO. The proliferation of slower lenses (f4 and smaller) isn't helping keep ISO values down either. The good news is high ISO on the latest Canon bodies is so good that going up to 1600 is really not that big of a deal.
Old    keith (toofdog29)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2007, 7:31 AM Reply   
I will kepp you posted went last night but got home late and didnt have time to check how it worked .. I didnt do much shooting I got to do most of the riding so the gf did most of the shooting Thanks again everyone For all of the great advice!!!

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