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Old     (attila916)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-21-2007, 9:18 PM Reply
Old    DRA            03-21-2007, 9:25 PM Reply   
Can't resist----Ford tough (only when built with Chevy stuff)

(Message edited by sanger215guy on March 21, 2007)
Old    mendo247            03-21-2007, 9:37 PM Reply   
its only gonna get worse from here on out with all the restrictions on the new diesels! glad i bought mine when i did
Old     (senna1)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-22-2007, 6:22 AM Reply   
And what a fix they're offering! Either your exhaust catches on fire or the engine shuts down. Copied from the article:

The software upgrade will reset the powertrain control module on the Ford trucks. In cases where the system detects unusually high temperatures in the diesel particulate filter, the control module will power down the vehicle.

The aim is to allow drivers to pull safely to the side of the road to allow it to cool before proceeding, Jarvis said.
Old     (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-22-2007, 6:52 AM Reply   

Oh here we go Baby!
Old     (duckguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-22-2007, 7:20 AM Reply   
Dear Beautiful 8 pound baby jesus. Please give Toyota the inspiration to put a diesel in there new Tundra and reassure them that all the necks out there will approve because of there presence in Nascar now, and not go out right away and but Calvin peeing on Toyota stickers for there new 2008 Superduty's that I will pass on the road while they are waiting for the tow truck.

(Message edited by duckguy on March 22, 2007)
Old     (hemihauler)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-22-2007, 7:54 AM Reply   
Matt Classic!!
Old     (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-22-2007, 9:13 AM Reply   
MATT - Toyota Corp stuck the NWL for 1100 sponsorship at the 2006 NWL National Championship. Will not return calls or emails.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-22-2007, 9:28 AM Reply   
The EPA mandates that all new diesel engines have a particulate matter separator in the exhaust system. It initially catches the black stuff (not sure exactly what it is) that diesels kick out, maybe it's soot?? The engines then go through a periodic phase called regeneration where the motors run higher RPM, burn some fuel and use very high exhaust gas temps to burn the soot and turn it to ash.

The ash is then removed from the particulate filter periodically, like when you get an oil change. This is not limited to Ford. Along with the new ULSD fuel requirements, this is another "system" that is put in place to reduce diesel emissions, along with the whole exhaust gas recycling etc.

The flames shooting out of the tailpipe is the soot burning off, which is not all that great, so now they are gonna install a limp mode when the exhaust temps get too high. Not really a fix and could be a serious issue if you are towing a road with no place to pull over. I have heard poor fuel economy on these trucks already, the emissions is choking them down.

It will be interesting to see how this carries over to the other consumer diesels, and if they have similar issues. I won't defend Ford on this, but I am betting that they are not the only ones who will be having these type of issues. It makes me very glad I bought my F250 diesel in 06 and won't have to smog it or sit by the side of the road waiting for my EGT's to calm down so I can regenerate my particulate matter filter.

I really don't see how Toyota is relevant at all. it took them decades to enter the half ton market and all they did was produce a slightly more powerful F150 type truck that has not passed the test of time. I think it's a nice powertrain if all they say is true. When they put half a million diesels on the road in the US and do it for 10 years solid pulling all kinds of loads in every condition, they will have something to brag about in the US heavy duty consumer truck market.

Right now Toyota is comfortable comparing the Tundra's power to the F150 and it's price to the F250. So which is it?? I am willing to bet the Toyota will not do any better than an F250 with a V10 in MPG while it is pulling a heavy load.

But I digress, I don't want to get into a pissing match about Toyota trucks, they are fine and it's your money. My main concern is with folks who really enjoy their diesel trucks and know how well they pull and how reliable they really are. This is the future of Diesel engines as mandated by the EPA. And what we are seeing is the first recall on Ford's new engine because it's shooting flames out of the tail pipe and the exhaust is too hot.

It's funny in a way, but not so great either. This is one of the best truck manufacturers on the planet, particularly the US. They have enough issues already and now their flagship line of heavy duty trucks is suffering a recall for a not so trivial matter. This is after millions of miles of testing, and I won't even guess the dollar cost to develop the new Super Duty line.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-22-2007, 9:43 AM Reply   
Flux, do the older trucks have any of these issues. Particulate traps? I've got to proclaim my ignorance on this one. Sad since I have an '06. I frequently wonder about the EPA. What are they trying to accomplish. Why try to eliminate the black soot from a diesel. It falls harmlessly to the ground anyway. I just think that they fail to see the big picture sometimes. Pollution is a huge issue, but needs to be addressed on a very large scale not limited to the automobile industry.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-22-2007, 10:00 AM Reply   
This is only on the new 6.4l, and only on the first run or "JOB #1", JOB #2 is already in production and it's a simple reflash, or new strategy for the burnoff procedure for the trap.

The particulate trap is brand new "feature". Your rig is safe and you will never have to smog it like the new ones. You can still get some 07's without this EPA mess installed as well. From everything I have read, the 06 & 07 6.0l diesels are running awesome and are very reliable and have not been flashed to fix any troubles at all. In short, they have the kinks worked out and may turn out to be the best years of the bunch. They also have an a bulletproof tranny in em that is seeing very little trouble in millions of trucks.

Most folks knew there would be a few bugs with the new engine and particularly the first run. A reflash is nothing really, and often they test out better performance options and flash the trucks when they come in for service. Ford is being proactive on this.

I am hearing great things about the updated motor, it has no lag, is quiet, smooth, and powerful. Everyone loves the new interior for sure, although I don't mind my 06 interior at all, it's comfy and everything is right where it should be. I do like the chrome vents and the squared up shape of the dash of the 08's.

It will be interesting to see how these new EPA devices on all diesel trucks pan out. I am all for cleaner more efficient vehicles, but choking down diesels may not be the right thing to do, they are the workhorses and their fuel economy transfers over to our overall economy. I am with you that it's pretty much just the shear amount of vehicles on the road and the American Commuter that is doing the most damage.
Old     (mastercraft1995)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-22-2007, 10:00 AM Reply   
CIE the new EPA rules apply to 08's yours is fine.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-22-2007, 10:16 AM Reply   
I am also hearing that the actual problem of flames was limited to a handful of trucks, but again they are being proactive.

The EPA actually mandated Ford do this particulate trap very late in their 6.4l testing and development. GM's Diesel hits the lots this week and will have the same type of system. So we shall see what happens with their lineup as well.

Sounds to me like the EPA might have bed on this one. It actually takes a good amount of fuel and high Exhaust temp to burn off or clean out the filter, which effects fuel economy. It remains to be seen if this is a safe, economical, and beneficial procedure. me thinks if GM has a problem than other companies will as well and there may be some recourse.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-22-2007, 10:39 AM Reply   
"The EPA actually mandated Ford do this particulate trap very late in their 6.4l testing and development."

It is C.A.R.B., and was mandated in the 1990's that by 2008 we have a 72% reduction in emissions from the year 2000 requirements. All diesels will be running cleaner, including heavy trucks. This is nothing new, and they have known about the requirements for over ten years. It is a good thing. Diesel particulate matter is far worse than gas engine emissions.

As to software updates, that is no big deal. Anyone can reflash a PCM with a pass through device today. It is another C.A.R.B. mandate, protocol J2534. The requirements are good things for the earth. Unfortunately we are the global leaders, and no one is really following...
Old    mendo247            03-22-2007, 11:00 AM Reply   


Bling might have to trade in his EXT for this!
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-22-2007, 11:13 AM Reply   
Old    stillstandin            03-22-2007, 11:21 AM Reply   
No doubt, the import racer type guys pay extra money for this effect. Ford buyers get it for free.
Old     (jamieb)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-22-2007, 12:38 PM Reply   
so it just shoots a little flame?

no biggie
Old     (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-22-2007, 12:49 PM Reply   


(Message edited by sinkoumn on March 22, 2007)
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-22-2007, 1:29 PM Reply   

I'm pretty sure that Peter's the automotive god. Anytime I need to know something I know who to ask.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-22-2007, 3:41 PM Reply   
I know Peter knows his stuff about all sorts of big truck mechanic's and he drives a Pirus.
He is the guy laughing at you as you are pulled over on the side of the road waiting 4 your flame thrower tips to cool down. The whistles go

But thats only in Morning
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-22-2007, 10:33 PM Reply   
Thanks Evan, but I am just full of stupid trivia. I also much prefer my big block powered rigs over my little Prius. I just can't afford to drive a gas hog all over Northern California.

It is not cool if it goes whoooo whooooo, without the guy speaking in perfect Ebonics.
Old     (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       03-22-2007, 10:52 PM Reply   
people should be up cooking breafast or something
Old     (lowdrag)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-23-2007, 3:42 AM Reply   
Hopefully it won't be long before someone like Banks comes out with new exhaust systems for the new diesel engines. Something that eliminates the particulate filter and and has some wiring to fool the computer into thinking everything is there and working fine. I imagine that there's a lot of power left to found in these things and you'd probably see better fuel economy also.


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