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Old    Bill Maupin (gogop)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-03-2006, 7:22 AM Reply   
I had pretty much narrowed down my boat choice between a Nautique 236 and a Centurion Enzo. We were leaning toward the Enzo as it was about 15K less and we really like the boat.

Problem is it drives me crazy everyone walking on the vinyl. The enzo has a section that hinges up on the right side, but it's not optimal.

We breifly looked at an Avalanche which does have the walk through, but the boats a little smaller.

Does anyone have any other recomendations?

Thanks Bill.
Old    Kyle L (skier12)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-03-2006, 8:03 AM Reply   
Just thought I'd throw this one out there. I'm sure you probably are not interested but it's another option. They have a vdrive and direct drive with walkthrough transoms.

http://www.svfara.com/homepage.htm

Theres been a few other threads lately about their boats so they came to mind.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       12-03-2006, 8:50 AM Reply   
Bill - Supra makes 2 models for you.. Your request is part of what seperates the Sunsport vs. SSV trim lines.

You can get either the Sunsport 22V seen here.
YOU MUST CLICK ON INTERIOR FEATURES TO SEE WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.
http://www.supraboats.com/sunsport22v/index.html

or the or the Sunport 24V seen here.
CLICK INTERIOR FEATURES

http://www.supraboats.com/sunsport24v/index.html

At these links you are looking how the drivers side rear locker lifts to expose a very sturdy walkway with steps following down to the floor to the interrior of the boat. You will also get walk thru bow with floor storage instead of a playpin with basement.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-03-2006, 9:07 AM Reply   
Session 22SI - extremely functional walk through transom. I hated the idea of a walkthrough, but now though I got one, I'd never go back.
http://www.sessionboats.com/

Probably one the top 5 wakes on the market. If by crossover, you mean slalom, the Session may not work. It's fine for open water, but it's a chore to go short. I did come close to 22 off @34 mph, but wouldn't try it again. We did it just to try.
Old    kvanderg            12-03-2006, 9:45 AM Reply   
Bill... you are eliminating some really good boats with the walk thru transom requirement; therefore, I offer this.

I noticed your 43 years old and a doctor so I assume you have the ability to reason your way thru this in a non-emotional fashion and/or have the $$$ resources so either way:

1) Why not just buy the boat you really like the most and meets your needs the most... then take it to an "upholstery doctor" after about 300-500hours of use and get the 1 or 2 high wear parts of the interior redone.

2) Why not just buy a new boat every 2 years. Try to stay with the same dealer and brand. Being a doctor and repeat customer... the dealer will probably treat you pretty good and the cost to trade in wont be that bad... but it will still be way more $$$ than option #1.

I just dont want to see you buy a 2nd rate boat or a boat that doesn't meet the more important needs just because it has a walk thru... does that make sense?

Anyway... everyone knows this is coming... check out and water test the Malibu 23LSV... its with out a doubt one of the top 3 best looking, best built, best performing boats on the water.

Take care Upload
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-03-2006, 10:14 AM Reply   
Bill
I have an '05 Malibu XTi for sale
it's a great boat with only 100 hours on it
I am here in DFW
email me if you want pics and more info
Upload

noodleski@sbcglobal.net
Old    Red Sovine (san210nut)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-03-2006, 10:20 AM Reply   
You might first want to decide what is important to you, like QUALITY level. How long are going to keep the boat, does resale value matter, etc. etc...

The boats that you mentioned, the Centurion and the Correct Craft have a night an day difference in quality. Nothing beats the Correct Craft for Quality or resale value.
Old    WakePowell Chris (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-03-2006, 10:26 AM Reply   
Im confused, if you cant walk through, what does it look like?
Old    kvanderg            12-03-2006, 11:12 AM Reply   
Bill,

There are a million and one ways to attack buying a boat. Red listed a few important ones for sure... but there are probably about 50 more points that could be taken into account if a guy wanted to really drill down deeper into the topic.

If you are newer to the sport(s) as I suspect you are, have the $$$ but might only know enough to evaluate a boat on about 5 - 10 of the 50 points... I would stick to any cross over product from Malibu, Mastercraft, Correct Craft and perhaps Supra. This will get you the quality, performance and resale from one of the big three or four. Doing that... you are about 90% of the way to making a good risk based decision (not knowing 100% about the product you are buying... but still having to write a BIG check is risky).

Only a couple more words of advice (even though you didn't ask for it ):

1) Get a Vdrive... dont let ANYONE talk you into anything else. Vdrives can do it all... and are in high demand... and that means good resale. Direct drives configured to look more like Vdrives ARE NOT Vdrives!

2) Be cautious with the term cross over. Some companies market pretty hard off of the term and some dont. In some cases... the company that doesn't use the term cross over at all might actually have the best cross over product.

Do a search on boat buying advice or send me a private message and I can give you a BIG comprehensive list of things to consider.

Take care and good luck
Old     (midwesty)      Join Date: Aug 2003       12-03-2006, 11:52 AM Reply   
Red,

stop trying to shove Correctcraft down everyones throat. its getting old man, real old
Old    JK (justridin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       12-03-2006, 12:31 PM Reply   
Kevin,

Are the four brands you listed above the "big three or four"? Would that analysis come from accurate production numbers, quality measures, or personal experience? I am sure that Centurion builds more and sells more boats that Supra.
Old    Ryan Haug (ryan27r)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-03-2006, 1:35 PM Reply   
i am pretty sure skiers choice out sold Centurion
Old    Red Sovine (san210nut)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-03-2006, 1:40 PM Reply   
Dear Mr. Foust of Granite Construction,
If it's getting old you can stop reading my posts. The fact is that Correct Craft is known for having the best quality in the skiing/wakeboarding line up. They stand behind their product better than anyone and they have more 15+ year old boats on the water than any other ski/wakeboarding manufacturer. He was already looking at Correct Craft

Also, I find it funny that you, just a couple of months ago, were looking at a Correct Craft.

Also, It's to bad you didn't buy a Correct Craft originally and not a Sky Supreme or you wouldn't be looking at new boats now. Aren't you just really mad that you didn't make the right choice the first time around and now just resent me talking about the quality of Correct Craft?

Stop attacking me please, you do your thing and I will do mine.


(Message edited by san210Nut on December 03, 2006)
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-03-2006, 1:48 PM Reply   
Skiers choice out sold Centurion yes if you combine to different boat Brands to do it.

Not that that should make any difference in a boat buying decision one way or the other
Old     (midwesty)      Join Date: Aug 2003       12-03-2006, 1:53 PM Reply   
red,
hate to say it that i have had a sky supreme since 03, now currently have a malibu. but do i shove either one of those down anyone elses throats? no, i dont. i have always liked the CC 210 and its wake is second to none, but their new boats are not my style.

maybe if you would have sent me interior pics of yours at the time i would be in the CC right now. what is your name again by the way? which is it this month??
Old    kvanderg            12-03-2006, 2:07 PM Reply   
JK... long time no talk. I'm sure that being the local Tige dealer... you, once again, do not appreciate the unbiased information/opinion that I share on this board.

I dont want to argue semantics with respect to production numbers and who the Big 3 or 4 really are. Yearly production numbers do not reflect anything about construction quality or resale values. It really is a short term reflection of marketing approach, styling and $ value to the consumer.

It would be interesting to see the NEW production numbers if all the actual "no discount asking prices" for 20-24 foot boats were all at the top of the scale (i.e one high price... not a spread) and see how many people would get a Centurion Avalanche over an Mastercraft Xstar if they had to pay the same price?

My advice stands... if you have the cash but perhaps not the knowledge... stay with the big 3 which are commonly known and widely accepted as Malibu, Master Craft and Correct Craft.
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       12-03-2006, 2:32 PM Reply   

quote:

Nothing beats the Correct Craft for Quality or resale value.




That is funny,I wonder where you get your info from.

FYI the reason you see 15 year old CC(2001)on the water more then any other boat is b/c of the wake.People will restore the 2001 b/c for that old of a boat the wake is unmatched!
Also MC was the 1st to make an all composite(no wood in the boat)and CC followed as did every other manufacturer so from the beginning it shows who was concerned about quality and DID something about it.MC was a leader in Quality then and is leader today!!

Don't forget that.
Old    kvanderg            12-03-2006, 2:50 PM Reply   
JK,

As I am still waiting to be converted to a Tige owner this coming summer (according to you Tige is better than Malibu and I am willing to keep an open mind having never been in a Tige)... maybe we should limit our internet exchanges before we get to the point that I wouldn't buy a Tige for $5 and you wouldn't sell me one for $1,000,00

Are you going to be at your Bowness/Montgomery location this coming Saturday? Perhaps I will stop in, introduce myself and look at some Tiges... that or we can just punch each other in the ear and get it over with

(Message edited by kvanderg on December 03, 2006)
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-03-2006, 2:50 PM Reply   
red, my buddy has a 2004 226 loaded and i mean every option inc custom stereo, very very nice, he can not give it away, i think it was 80k 2yrs ago he will sell for 45k to get rid of it, not that great resale you speak of but it is a hell of a boat for a great price if you know anyone
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-03-2006, 2:52 PM Reply   
ps 45 is bottom dollar
Old    kvanderg            12-03-2006, 3:03 PM Reply   
Supra for me,

I personally loved it when I paid $64K CDN for a 2005 22SSVGG Supra and got the big $51K for it one year & 80 hours later.

So I guess CC and Supra are out... anyone got a resale value horror story with a BU or MC? I'm sure if we debate this long enough the only boat worth owning (with respect to resale) will be a pontoon boat as pontoon boat owners typically dont frequent this board... ya pickin up what I'm layin down... Jeez

To me the sky is blue... but I'm sure there is someone out there who will argue that because one day early in the morning or late in the day... the sky was red. There are exceptions to every rule... please dont use them as the backbone of your arguement... it does not make you appear to be intelligent in any way.

(Message edited by kvanderg on December 03, 2006)
Old    JK (justridin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       12-03-2006, 3:51 PM Reply   
Kevin,

I can appreciate and respect your opinions. But believe it or not there are thousands of happy boat owners that do not feel they bought a 2nd rate boat just because it was not made by the company that happened to hold the top sales position at the time of their purchase. My first towboat bought in 1989 was from a then 2nd rate boat company called Malibu. In the early nineties Supra was on top of the sales curve and bankrupt around 1995/6. MC's foray into little jet boats just about sunk them in the late nineties. To this day CC sales in our area (one of the best towboat markets in North America) are embarassingly low for a "big three" company. How could a potential buyer argue with the name brand "Toyota" when it was backing a towboat company a few years back? They should have kicked some ass, instead they faded away. And through all of those time periods, people bought those brands and others that have come and gone or just stayed "2nd rate" (tell a Sanger owner that he owns a 2nd rate boat and see what the reply is!). The most interesting fact is that most of those boats bought over decades are still on the water somewhere making their owners happy. There is a Ski Challenger for sale here in the local Boat Trader. In 1989 the Malibu dealer said those were junk (while the Supra dealer said my Mailbu was junk) and this one will likely sell for about the same as any other 1989 towboat. Red is right that cc deserves our respect, but maybe mainly because they have been building boats and owned by the same family the longest, not because their current boats are superior.

So your advice of: "... if you have the cash but perhaps not the knowledge... stay with the big 3 which are commonly known and widely accepted as Malibu, Master Craft and Correct Craft." might be accurate in some markets today and wrong at some time in the not too distant future.

My advice to Dr. Maupin would be to buy the boat with the features you want from a dealer that you can work with. Given that we all agree that any towboat is better designed and constructed than 99% of inboard/outboards, I think he will be more happy with a choice based on features and good service than the name printed on the side of the boat.

Looking forward to having that beer with you at the Chestermere Landing Kevin. What will we talk about?
Old    JK (justridin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       12-03-2006, 3:56 PM Reply   
Kevin,

I missed your last post typing the essay above. I plan to be there next saturday all afternoon. Drop by.

JK
Old    David Baker (bakerds)      Join Date: Feb 2004       12-03-2006, 4:11 PM Reply   
Tige 22i - cross over boat with walk through transom

http://www.wakeworld.com/boats/getboat7.asp?ProductID=200127Upload
Old    kvanderg            12-03-2006, 4:17 PM Reply   
JK... What you are drilling down into are some of the 50 plus points that should be considered when purchasing a boat. They need to be addressed; however, I didn't want to go that deep because Bill wasn't asking that question. But good advice none the less. What will we talk about? Probably boats

Also... I didn't mean that if you dont have a big 3 boat you have 2nd rate boat. What I mean is that if you have a big 3 boat... you for sure dont have a 2nd rate boat (i.e risk management).

Take care.
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-03-2006, 4:21 PM Reply   
kevin i bought a new moomba 23 xlv in 2004 sold in 2006 130 hrs for 2k less than i paid, i bought a 2006 24 ssv in feb sold in sept w/ 80 hrs for 1,200 less than i paid, you paid to much and sold for to little, sorry
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-03-2006, 4:38 PM Reply   
would suggest mc or nautique... both offer boats with walk throughs... though they cost more, they are built better, higher resale value, awesome, and most importantly - BETTER MOTORS and BETTER WAKES !!!!!

though the walk through is nice (i have one).. it is a bit overated imo as major buying decision...like anything ymmv

good luck !!

(Message edited by clubmyke on December 03, 2006)
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-03-2006, 5:13 PM Reply   
better motors, oh really
that comment cancels your second opinion
Old    kvanderg            12-03-2006, 5:20 PM Reply   
Supra for me,

I "paid too much and sold for too little"... ya think? Thanx for the life lesson big guy

The fact that I lost money on a boat shouldn't surprise anyone... but what should surprise everyone is how you managed to pull off the Moomba/Supra resales that you did. There is more to the story than what you are saying... my guess is:

1) Your parents, brother, uncle, best friend, etc... is a dealer and your getting the boats at or near cost.
2) You are patient and buy used when that rare opportunity comes up (i.e. used '06 for sale at the start of '06 season)
3) Your not telling the truth.

Please fill in the blanks for us.
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-03-2006, 7:11 PM Reply   
kevin
1) none of the above, just a local dealer who knows i will return if i get a good deal
2)not real patient, if i was i could have sold mine for more (sold 1 in feb, other in sept, not really the best times to sell)
3)both of the current owners of my prev boats are here on wakeworld
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       12-03-2006, 10:18 PM Reply   
The walk through on my Nautique 211 is great, the one on my buddies MC X45 is great too. The lack of a walk though on the Malibu was a major determinant for my boat choice. I hate walking on the vinyl getting between the platform and the inside of the boat. The pass through is great no matter which manufacturer you decide.

My $0.02
Old    Jamie LaMar (jamie_lamar)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-04-2006, 7:17 AM Reply   
Bill - Check you e-mail, I sent you some info on the Supra 22SSV.
Old    Bill Maupin (gogop)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-04-2006, 9:53 AM Reply   
I found the MC X30 also has a walk through. Love the Bu Wakesetter, but really need snap in carpet. We ski 70% board 30%. Had a Sea Ray IO, so we're looking forward to surfing with a vdrive.

The pylon on the CC 236 is way in the back so I'd have to get a tower boom (teaching my girls to foot this summer). The MC X30 looks good, but we have not test driven one.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-04-2006, 12:52 PM Reply   
I would recomend the tower boom for any V drive
It is a little more trouble to put on but it is way up front and out of the spray it is also easier to store than the huge bend V drive booms. IMHO of course I use the Tower boo a lot my skiing is barefoot 60 wakeboard 30 ski 10
Old    Red Sovine (san210nut)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-04-2006, 3:15 PM Reply   
Why some people buy Correct Crafts:

http://www.planetnautique.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=6978

All boats have problems but how many companies do you see doing that?
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-04-2006, 3:39 PM Reply   
red
red
skiers choice is on this forum all the time taking care of their customers, so to answer you question
yes, other boat companies do the same
ps is 45k on my buddies 2004 226 a good deal, it is in great shape but he has had it for sale over a year now
Old    Red Sovine (san210nut)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-04-2006, 4:10 PM Reply   
That is a hard sized boat to sell at any price from any manufacturer. Your buddy should have had a little more fore thought to go and buy an $80K boat and then try to sell it in two years. To answer your question, yes that is a good deal if someone wants that big of a wakeboarding boat. My truck can't pull that boat so I am out.

Your buddy should know that a boat is not a bank account.
Here is a similar Malibu:
http://www.boattraderonline.com/caddetail.html?/ad-cache/6/5/5/86470355.htm

Here is a Mastercraft:
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/6/1/86298361.htm

There are Correct Craft 210s selling for more or the same amount as when they were new. I see them all the time. If a boat is in demand it will sell and historically Correct Craft takes a smaller hit than most other wakeboard boats, check NADA. It just depends if the model of boat is in demand or not, look at the CC 2001. Correct Craft just retain value better, sorry but it is fact.
Old    Bill Maupin (gogop)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-04-2006, 9:33 PM Reply   
Wish I didn't like to ski, 45K for the 04 226 sounds a lot better than 70'ish for the 236 I'm looking at.
Bill
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-04-2006, 9:45 PM Reply   
So the 236 is a Crossover boat? Have you skied behind one? Which Enzo where you looking at?
Old    Bill Maupin (gogop)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-04-2006, 11:13 PM Reply   
Yes it's advertised as the Crossover 236. It's about 6inches longer than the Nautique 226. Has controls by the throtle for ski vs. boarding. The model is new. They just got a demo boat here which was one of the first boats to come off the line. There has been a blizzard here so we have not been able to go out on the boat.

The same dealer (who we really like) also has the Centurion. We are looking at a Enzo SV230. We went out on this boat and liked it. I've also looked at the Avalanche which is a little smaller but we like the walk through better. The deal is I can afford any of them, but who want's to waste money if a less expensive boat suits our needs. We don't put a ton of hours on a boat. I have 4 daughters that all ski and board,ages 3 through 10. I slalom and barefoot on a long line. The girls want to learn to barefoot so I need a boom, I want to surf as it looks easier on the body. Three year old twins drag a ton of sand on the boat, hence the need for snap out carpet and more than likely a walk through transom.

The dealer who sells both the boats we are looking at does not push the more expensive CC like you would think. They feel the Centurions have really stepped up the quality.

Problem is as much as I like the lesser price tag on the Centurions(15k less), something is telling me bite the bullet, buy the CC and I will not have to worry about problems.

I also thought the resale would be better on the CC, but after reading some of the earlier posts this may not be the case with the larger boats. We plan on keeping this for a while so the point may be mute, but I always think I'm keeping a boat longer than I do.
Old    Red Sovine (san210nut)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-05-2006, 6:36 AM Reply   
Resale is better on the CC for larger boats. It's really bad for other brands of larger ski/wake boats. I really just depends on the demand for the model at the time. For instance I would bet a used Epic would sell for close to what it was bought for new due to all the hype.
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-05-2006, 7:43 AM Reply   
red
i used my 2006 24 ssv supra for 1 season and lost 1,200
yes, i did buy it for a great price (new) but it is not the bad resale for larger "other brands" you speak of
2004 226 lost 80-45 thats 35 k in 2 yrs and he still has not sold it he may have to take less
Old    Red Sovine (san210nut)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-05-2006, 7:53 AM Reply   
Where does you friend live? Is there a market for that boat? Your boat was "cheap" to begin with. Like I said before the 226 is a boat that isn't really in demand, specially with the 236 as a new option. If I could, I would buy that yellow 236 that is on the market right now. I think someone traded it in on an MB, it might be the best looking boat I have ever seen.
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-05-2006, 8:21 AM Reply   
supra for me......my mistake on the motors - i didnt realize supra was using indmar's (thought is was merc's)
Old    Sam Aikele (atropine)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-05-2006, 10:07 AM Reply   
Bill-
I have three daughters (#4 is due in May) ages 2-7. They love to play on the beach, but they have been very good to rinse off as they get in the boat. That, combined with the carpet saver (essentially a direct-fit floor mat) has kept the carpet clean in my Malibu 23 LSV. Granted, I have not owned it very long, but the carpet in my previous boats stayed very nice looking as well. The carpet saver makes for a very plush feel on the floor, and comes out in 15 seconds for cleaning. Yes, I suppose you could still collect enough dirt around the edges to get the floor carpet dirty, but it hasn't been a problem yet. Just another thing to consider. Although I don't think Malibu has any boat with a walk-thru in the size you are looking at, you could probably get a similar type of "carpet-saver" for another brand of boat.
Old    Coach (oaf)      Join Date: Jul 2002       12-05-2006, 12:39 PM Reply   
Bill-
I just bought a Tige RZ2. There are many Tige's with a walk through transom. The 22 and 24 Ve and the RZ2. They all have a cushion that flips over with carpet on it to step on when you come in the boat. Although it was low on my list of priorities I am very glad I have it and have many of my buddies who really like it as well. The difference with the Tige walk through is that it is all fiberglass and nothing lifts up. You have an extra cushion that you can place there if you want to have a full pad across the back. The 2007 Tige's are a huge step up from years past IMO. I was set on a Malibu LSV until the RZ2 came out. Look and drive all of the boats you are intrested in and you will find one that fits you the best.

[img]http://www.wakeworld.com/wwimages/boats/guide/200147.jpg[/img]
Old    Bill Maupin (gogop)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-05-2006, 3:22 PM Reply   
Hey Red, what yellow 236 is on the market?
Old    Red Sovine (san210nut)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-05-2006, 3:33 PM Reply   
Sorry Bill, I meant 226. I think it might be the best looking boat I've seen but it's personal preference I guess.

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/6/3/85882063.htm

Great price too.
Old    kvanderg            12-06-2006, 11:45 AM Reply   
Supra for me,

If you bought new, then used the boat for one season and only lost $1200... thats called getting the boat at or near cost.

If I could get boats at cost... I wouldn't lose any money either. Anyone who would like to argue that... line me up with a boat at cost and I'll show ya

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