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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through January 11, 2007

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Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 10:44 AM Reply   
Ok ill try to make this short as poss. but my parents live on 7 acres. the land that surrounds the house is already disced and flat. My good freind owns a few tractors and we want to dig some small ponds, build some sliders and pull each other behind his banshee or even invest in a winch. Now here's my problem. The Pop's thinks somebody will get hurt and sew him or there family will if they get seriously hurt. I know it wont happen atleast the sewing part, but how do I reassure him. Can someone sew even if its on private property? If anyone can help it would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Old    JOSH ROSSI (josh_r_skater)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 10:52 AM Reply   
i dont know but that sounds sick hit me up if you need any help
Old    Byrd (byrd)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-29-2006, 10:58 AM Reply   
In Florida, you can get sued if you are on your private property and someone gets hurt. You might want to check out a liability policy to appease Pops...
Old    DRA            11-29-2006, 11:11 AM Reply   
The big answer is "yes" you can get sued if a friend gets hurt on your property. Your insurance winds up taking the hit but don't think that someone won't sue you because your friends. A crippling injury changes everything.
Old    innov8actionsports.com            11-29-2006, 11:16 AM Reply   
Anybody can sue you for anything these days, the question is if someone did get hurt, could they sue you and win? I would say yes, unless you had some kind of release of liability you could make them sign before they play. Even then they could still sue you, but could they win the case? Depends on there lawyer and how deep there pockets are.
BE CAREFUL!!!!
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 11:25 AM Reply   
would a waver help? What do these other rail jams do. Take out an outragious insurance policy
Old    Byrd (byrd)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-29-2006, 11:29 AM Reply   
It wont help here in Florida, so check with a lawyer....

I think Rail Jams will take out a liablility policy for the day or days, and usually it is not that expensive, compared to a yearly one, because it is for a small time period, 1-3 days.
Old    DRA            11-29-2006, 11:36 AM Reply   
At the rail jams and other events the contestants due sign a waiver and insurance policies are taken out to cover injuries. But these documents are created by lawyers to cover most of the angles some one could take to try and sue. It may be enough for your dad to see your friends sign a paper acknowledging they are taking part in activity that could cause injury or death and they will not hold him responsible but the best advice is be careful at what you expose yourself to. You may want to find out from you homeowners insurance how your at risk if someone does get hurt on your property and what they suggest to keep you protected.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       11-29-2006, 11:44 AM Reply   
Having kids being pulled across ponds and sliders by a Banshee sounds like a lawsuit waitng to happen.

Homeowners insurance will not even work with a trampoline.

Just letting your friend drive his 4wheeler on your property is already putting you at risk for a lawsuit.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 12:21 PM Reply   
I agree its not the safest but its a blast. When the river is low we take rails out to the canal and irrigation ditches and pull each behind my buddies same banshee. In 5 years not one of my freinds has been seriously injured but thats irrellevant i guess. Thank you guys for your input looks like an upward battle. Maybe ill buy pops a nice bottle of wine let em get trashed and then beg.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       11-29-2006, 12:48 PM Reply   
All that said. I have an awesome pond to do this on and the 4 wheeler. When it gets warm again we will definetly have to do this.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 1:27 PM Reply   
for sure man i dont know where your from but i got a bunch of wood and treks.
Old    Dtb (dtb)      Join Date: May 2002       11-29-2006, 1:31 PM Reply   
couldn't the same be said for pulling some one behind your boat? if they get hurt, they could sue.
Old    DRA            11-29-2006, 1:33 PM Reply   
To be honest yes they could.
Old    kelly lee (kickasskel)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-29-2006, 1:39 PM Reply   
Probably a good idea to talk to a lawyer. You can get sued if someone gets hurt on your private property, especially if you know that there is a possibility that injury could happen.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 1:46 PM Reply   
What happened to the good ol days when you didnt need lawyers advice to have fun on your own freakin property. Rediculous, Im movin to mexico...... Sike, scratch that i probably would never ride there
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-29-2006, 1:56 PM Reply   
the boat is an assumed inherent risk. the rail idea is completely different. ESPECIALLY since you built it.

Its not just someone cracking their face on the rail you have to worry about. any and everything is a risk. You need a thorough hold harmless waiver at the very VERY least. and even then, if someone gets hurt and they find shoddy construction, a shallow landing area, etc etc etc (a very long list of potential problems that point the finger back at you) you're still liable.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 2:19 PM Reply   
what is a thorough hold harmless waiver.
Old    kylie-logan (kylielogan)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-29-2006, 2:21 PM Reply   
yes you can get sued, even if you have them sign a release, but you should still have them sign one if you're gunna do it. friends sue friends all the time and then they're no longer friends (unfortunately). and if they're minors, then the parents can sue even if the minor doesn't want to. if you decide to do it, check with your insurance agent also - maybe you can get an umbrella policy that would cover that type of injury.
Old    Peter T (deltawake)      Join Date: Sep 2004       11-29-2006, 3:20 PM Reply   
We are members of a private lake, and the owner of the lake has a release that everyone must sign before riding on the lake. I'm sure that there's a lawyer somewhere that would try to sue in spite of the release, but the release makes his chances in court a lot worse. That being said, you're crazy not to have a good liability policy if you're going to let anyone else ride on your property.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-29-2006, 3:40 PM Reply   
Man that sucks. The whole waiver thing doesnt pass with my pops. He owns his own business so hes hard nosed when it comes to losing anything.(money, house, business, due to liability) Its just the perfect set up. We have the tractors, a well about 20 feet from where i would like to dig the ponds, and tons of wood. Im soo bummed there has to be a way around. Actually these days probably not.
Old    Marvin Harville (marvin)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-29-2006, 6:41 PM Reply   
Yeah, that stinks Dave. But, you have to try to see your dad's side too. I know he might seem like the bad guy but I don't blame him for not wanting to lose money, house, or business because of liability. It is sad that people can (and do) sue over everything, but it happens. And like Kylie said the parents can sue even if you friends don't want to. It would be bad to lose friends over something that started out as fun.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-29-2006, 7:00 PM Reply   
Dave, if you dad runs his own business have him talk to a lawyer about asset management and protection. I am hoping he has already done this due to owning his own business. There may be a way to shelter those personal assets in a way that benefits both you and your father.
Old    Britt (btr1)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-30-2006, 3:26 AM Reply   
You have to worry about more than just the person that got hurt suing you. Even if the person didn't sue you their insurance company might just so they can recoup their expenses.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-30-2006, 10:27 AM Reply   
wow, thats crazy. I definetly see my dads side it just sucks. All my freinds are over 21 and none of us live with our parents i just cant see them sueing us. We grew up since we were like 2 ft tall you know. I am glad i got all this input and thanks everyone i guess i didnt think outside the box(about insurance agencies sueing or things like asset management protection) this has given me some convo to shoot at the pops about. If anyone knows anything else your feed back is appreciated
Old    Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       11-30-2006, 8:25 PM Reply   
What you think your friends will do and what they end up doing are two different things.

As for why it is different than them getting hurt behind your boat, there are a couple of major differences.


First off, do you realize just how much dirt you would need to move to create a pond/ditch deep, wide and long enough to be useful?

Okay, now, as you start getting tired of moving a mountain of dirt and decide it doesn't really need to be that deep....... This is where major lawsuit comes in.

You will have created this pond, it is all your doing. It isn't a natural spot, it isn't owned by the state, it was created by you. If it is unsafe for the intended purpose it will be your fault.

You invite your good buddy over to ride, he brings a friend of his along. The friend's friend takes a face plant, hits his head on the bottom of the too shallow pond and breaks his neck.

He is paralized and essentially a vegetable. Any one of a number of ambulance chasing lawyers contact the family and tell them that they can win a lawsuit at no risk to them. The family is facing some pretty big hospital bills and needs money. Yes, they will sue.

They will probably win, because:
1) you built it, and it obviously wasn't safe.
2) The danger was hidden to the guest, but you knew the pond wasn't deep
3) You encouraged the activity knowing it was dangerous.

You could avoid a number of the issues that would help your cause. For example, make the pond sufficiently deep. Post signs indicating how deep it is. Make everyone sign a release. But the bottom line is that there is nothing that will keep someone from suing. Your chances of winning will depend on how good your lawyer is and how much sympathy the jury will have towards the injured person.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-01-2006, 9:28 AM Reply   
hey thanks that puts things in perspective. As for the depth, its not a problem cause my buddy thats gunna help if we do it owns a gravel and rock company. He has the artillary to dig any depth. Thanks for your input.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       12-01-2006, 10:49 AM Reply   
Dave, Are you saying you are going to use explosives to build your ponds. That sounds 110x more dangerous than even using the ponds.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-01-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
I kind of find this a pretty depressing topic. The kid wants to share the stoke and sport by building what sounds like a killer setup, yet he cant due to what he fears could happen if an accident occured. Pretty crappy if you ask me, society sucks!
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       12-01-2006, 11:36 AM Reply   
I agree society does suck. It would be great if an acciedent was just an accident but now a days you never know who will sue you. I am thinking of building a similar setup for me, my brother, our wives and maybe a cousin. I would be pretty concerned to let anyone else use it though.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-01-2006, 5:42 PM Reply   
sorry jon maybe i used the wrong word "artillary" i meant big a$$ tractors and machinery to dig big Sorry for the misconception, and ya sometimes society really blows.
Old    wakes4us (leigh)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-01-2006, 8:38 PM Reply   
We took out a million dollar umbrella policy for protection. We live on the water and pull our friends and their kids, plus our daughter will be getting her license soon.

The cost depends on what toys you have and what you want covered. It's definitely worth checking into.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-01-2006, 9:20 PM Reply   
sorry to say but common thing in ca is a 5 mil policy and that may not be enough. Personal injury lawyers are savages, add to that having your own business, malpractice etc. I dont know if there is a large enough policy to cover that type of issue.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-01-2006, 9:29 PM Reply   
i hate my life
Old    JONb (jonb)      Join Date: Oct 2003       12-02-2006, 8:31 AM Reply   
On a side not you would also probably need a permit to do what you want to. You can only move so much dirt w/out one. A small pool is around the size of where you would need to get one at.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-02-2006, 9:36 AM Reply   
i never imagined that there would be this many stipulations in trying to have fun on your own property.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-02-2006, 9:40 AM Reply   
A little kneedle and thread never hurt anybody.
While they are sewing your dad have them sew you a pair of ski gloves. LOL
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-02-2006, 9:55 AM Reply   
haha good one billy i guess i wasnt paying attention in my 2nd grade english class.
Old    Chqwakeboarder (chqwakeboarder)      Join Date: May 2006       12-02-2006, 1:52 PM Reply   
On the topic of sueing, can't someone sue you if they get hurt on the board that you gave them from the Christmas give-a-way thread? I was thinking about it reading this post and I can see someone being an idiot, doing things way beyond their skill level on a board they received from the christmas give-a-way, getting hurt, and sueing the person that they got their board from for some easy money. I believe it could happen.
Old    Dave (knarbar)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-02-2006, 2:05 PM Reply   
looks like this opened a can of worms
Old    Peter Sharp (gobigorgohome)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-02-2006, 4:20 PM Reply   
I'm pretty sure a waiver/disclaimer would get you off the hook in the event of an accident. Get a lawyer to write one up for you, and make sure it's worded so that the user knows that he's got a good chance of getting hurt. He won't read it of course when he's pumped up about hitting the rails but that's his fault. Obviously make sure you keep the signed documents safe and make sure there's no way of people using the place without signing it (eg forgetting about it).
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-02-2006, 10:04 PM Reply   
I don't know what these people do liability wise but the definitely take chances and have FUN.
check out www.cowsrus.net and see the videos of alternative towing methods...
Old    supra for me (supra24ssv)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-03-2006, 6:23 AM Reply   
huge liability, your pops is right, one of your "friends" get hurt and it will be their farm and i promise, they will not let you back over to do sliders

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