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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through November 07, 2006

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Old    max french (timeless11)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-15-2006, 10:28 PM Reply   
Enjoy, spread the wealth

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Old    Ty (wakeandsnow27)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2006, 10:38 PM Reply   
wow, all background worthy.... nice choices.
Old    max french (timeless11)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-15-2006, 10:52 PM Reply   
couple others, lets see some other peoples top pics
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Old     (attila916)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-15-2006, 11:03 PM Reply   
Wow
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-15-2006, 11:23 PM Reply   
You know it's customary that if you're going to post other peoples work, you should give them photo credit.
Old    max french (timeless11)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-15-2006, 11:48 PM Reply   
i wouldnt take credit for anyones work, i love water sport photography and was just trying to share a few of my favorites to some other riders and see some of theres, i do give credit to Bill Doster who took about half of the photos i posted, the rest i have no source from just an awesome picture
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       10-15-2006, 11:49 PM Reply   
oops!

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Old    max french (timeless11)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-15-2006, 11:55 PM Reply   
some others were takin by Garrett cortese, Mike Isler, and the rest i dont know
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       10-16-2006, 5:37 AM Reply   
The shots of Josh Storrer look like Buffalow's.

But as Steve and Joe pointed out you're treading on dangerous ground. Basically it's illegal to post, display, use someone else's images without their written consent. Technically you need the permission of the riders as well.
Old    Loren (helix_rider)      Join Date: Mar 2003       10-16-2006, 6:19 AM Reply   
Rich, is that true if it's simply a 'check out this picture' post? Of course if he was trying to sell them, or make money because of them in some way I would understand the 'illegality' of it. If I had taken the picture, I would love the exposure and want it to be shown around so people might go to my webpage and buy my work. Obviously that only works if credit is given where credit is due.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       10-16-2006, 7:28 AM Reply   
Technically: yes

Realistically I doubt anyone is going to get in trouble for reposting images that are already out into the public domain. I realize my statement "dangerous ground" was a bit emphatic.
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-16-2006, 8:53 AM Reply   
First of all, it's good to see people stoked on wakeboarding. Max is only 17 and probably can't respond because he's in school right now. It wasn't my intention to run the guy through the ringer. Just point out that if you are going to post other peoples work then include a photo credit.

When it comes to utilizing someone’s photography without prior written consent, it depends on the person or company. I copyright all my material. Then when someone uses a photo I actually have some ground to stand on. Copyright infringement usually get's an invoice for 3 X's what I would normally charge. It's almost better to catch people in the act then sell them initially.
Old    max french (timeless11)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-16-2006, 10:45 AM Reply   
When posting i didnt take that into consideration, now i realize that and it makes plently of sense and i respect every bit of it. I did go back and give the credit to a few that i knew that took some of the pics. If you would like me to i can take them off, or i can repost when i find all the names of photographers
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-16-2006, 11:50 AM Reply   
No worries Max. There are a bunch of us here that work in this industry. Keep up the stoke. Here's one of mine from up in your neck of the woods.

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Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-16-2006, 12:54 PM Reply   
Damn guys.....little sensitive?

The photos above wern't used to sell or promote any of Max's personal interests besides his passion for your work. And he certainly didn't harm the value of anyone's intellectual property.

Although he could have said "I didn't take these."
Old    Ty (wakeandsnow27)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-16-2006, 1:03 PM Reply   
I agree with J-Rod on this one.
relax people.
Hahn, he never claimed them or used them to advertise. Its just like half of the other pictures people post on here.... I understand you're take on this with your profession and all, but still...
if one of those photgraphers actally cared than Id say they are shooting the wrong sport.
max- dont sweat it. nice pics and thanks for contributing to the sport and sharing those pictures.

(Message edited by wakeandsnow27 on October 16, 2006)
Old    mendo247            10-16-2006, 1:12 PM Reply   
i would have easily done the same thing max! dont sweat it.. allot of times i think we just look at photos and think how cool the rider and scenery look and get all excited.. when the truth of the matter is that the photographer may have taken thousands of shots, sat in the sun for 12 hrs straight,etc. etc... then they get to go home and work on the computer for hours on hours all for the hope of getting those couple shots that stop us in our tracks! there is allot of hard work they put in to bring us high quality shots and i think we sometimes forget and wonder why they want a little credit..
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-16-2006, 1:26 PM Reply   
Ty, I told Max not to sweat it. I said "it's customary" to give photo credit.

Richard, well put.
Old    Les D. (ldebbold)      Join Date: Jun 2006       10-16-2006, 1:44 PM Reply   
Great pics. Don't mean to hijack, but does anyone know where I could get wakeboarding posters with this type of pic and quality? I've searched on the web a fair amount and there just doesn't seem to be much available. Thanks, the crew needs something to look at during the winter!
Old    Arun Frances (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       10-16-2006, 1:59 PM Reply   
I took both of these shot of Josh at the delta although I could see how Rich may have thought that Buffalow may of took them being that we were both shooting from the same chase boat... I can't believe these shots were posted. I just can't accept this kind of behavior!!! Just kidding Max! Post away dawg... as long as its not stuff that is not already out.
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Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       10-16-2006, 2:17 PM Reply   
These are the type of shots I like to see. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Wakeboarder Magazine tends to take great shots like these and zoom in on the rider to where all you see is the rider in air. Rarely in WBM do you see any perspective as to where the rider is in relation to the wake and the boat (in the same shot).

The other day I was at my local library for my sons cub scout meeting. While there I picked up a WaterSki magazine they had. I was quite impressed by the shots that they had. Almost every shot showed the skier and the boat in the same shot. There were also plenty of shots from above where you could see a good portion of the lake that they were skiing. I couldn't help but think that I wish WBM published photos in the same way.

Also, in WaterSki magazine the boat ads were beter as well. Instead of some artsy-fartsy boat ad where the boat is a blur and the focus is on ther rider, the boat ads in WSM actually show a shot of the boat from above. I could actually see the inside layout of a boat!!

I guess WBM is trying to appeal to a younger audience by taking the arsty-fartsy approach, and their advertisers are as well?
Old    max french (timeless11)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-16-2006, 2:41 PM Reply   
Thanks steve, and Arun, i checked out both of your guy's work and love all of it, some amazing photography, ive been trying to get into it myself, because i have such love for the sport and the suroundings, if you have any tips or suggestions you could give me that would be awesome, like a good starter camera or any classes i could get into. Thanks allot, Max
Old    Jeffrey Byron (99xstar)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-16-2006, 3:57 PM Reply   
Richard, I'm with you on the angles that you like as well. I hear a lot of guys saying that they prefer pics of just the rider (no boat, etc). I'm a big fan of pics like the one above with the boat in the shot as well as pics from in front of the boat where you can see the rider popped up above the tower with the boat coming at you. I guess it's all personal pref.

You said Fartsy.....twice.
Old    walt            10-16-2006, 4:14 PM Reply   
Here you go Max. http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/376523.html?1160717266
Old    Arun Frances (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       10-16-2006, 4:23 PM Reply   
Thanks Max, if you ever have any questions please do not hesitate to shoot me an email... I am not a super techy camera kind of guy <--- did that make any sense? I have gotten a lot of help from some photog's and have no problem passing on some info.
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-16-2006, 4:25 PM Reply   
First off WSM and WBM are both owed by world publications. I do not agree this statement

"Wakeboarder Magazine tends to take great shots like these and zoom in on the rider to where all you see is the rider in air. Rarely in WBM do you see any perspective as to where the rider is in relation to the wake and the boat (in the same shot).

Did you even read the last issue? The photo annual has a ton of great photos. Now granted the boat isn't in every shot, but the scenery and perspective truly captures the essence of our sport.

If you don't already have it, Zinio reader for digital delivery of each issue is sick. Highly recommended.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       10-16-2006, 11:25 PM Reply   
My question to all of this- why aren't these images watermarked? Most people out there don't know all of the ins and outs of the business and legal side of things, so why not protect your stuff so that WHEN someone unknowingly violate these laws you don't have to worry about not getting your photo cred? Preventative measures, people...
Old    matt (supraman)      Join Date: Jan 2002       10-17-2006, 5:53 AM Reply   
Wow. Sen-suh-tive! I think the "constructive criticism" Max is getting on this thread is way off base. The legal principle of "fair use" is at least as applicable as anyone mentioning "copyright."

Hahn,

When you say "I copyright all of my images," what exactly do you mean by that? Did you you know that all original creative works receive "copyright" by default?
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       10-17-2006, 7:31 AM Reply   
"Did you even read the last issue? The photo annual has a ton of great photos. Now granted the boat isn't in every shot, but the scenery and perspective truly captures the essence of our sport."

As a matter of fact, I took another read of this months issue while taking the morning sit down earlier today. I stand by my statement above. There were VERY FEW shots that showed the boat, the rider, and the full wake in the same shot. One of the few that did was of the Billabong boat with the rider out in the flats. The shot looked like it was taken from up on the mountain side. It was very nice! The majority of the other shots were close ups of the riders with very little perspective. And yes, I am fully aware that both magazines are published by the same company.

Like Jeffrey said, it's all about personal preference. It's obvious that WBM caters to a younger audience and WSM caters to an older audience. Personally I prefer the wider angle shots, I guess because I'm old

To me WBM is a lot like MTV. Obviously MTV caters to a younger audience. When I was younger I loved MTV. Now if I happen to come across it when flipping channels I get an instant headache form all of the funky camera angles they do on their shows. The camera is always jerking around, turning at an angle, zooming in an out, etc. It drives me nuts. I guess I never noticed when I was younger, or perhaps I just didn't mind it. Now that I'm older I can't stand that crap.

WBM isn't quite MTV, but it's close. I just never realized it until I opened up a WSM and saw shots that appealed to me much more.

To each his own. That's one of the great things about our sport. It can be something different to everyone. Unfortunately, that's also what causes so many dissagreements on the message boards
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-17-2006, 8:09 AM Reply   
First off, images that I post on the internet are ones that have been submitted for publishing but were not used. I really don't feel the need to watermark low resolution images. If in fact companies take my images and utilize them in advertisements, which in the past they have, I simply send them an invoice for 3 x's what I normally would charge.

I think we're getting off point once again. I simply stated that it is customary for someone posting other people work to give them photo credit. That's all.

Richard, you may be right. Generally the demographic for water skiiers is a bit older and wakeboarders is a bit younger. I never really looked at it that way. Then again it's been years since I picked up a copy of WSM.
Old    max french (timeless11)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-17-2006, 11:27 AM Reply   
I just wanted to say, im sorry if i caused any of this confusement, i probably should of posted the thread differently or named it a little better. I understand what everyone is saying, and i just wanted everyone to know i am not trying to make money off of these or steal the credit, i did not take any of these pictures, i found them online and was just showing some love for the sport and trying to share some amazing photography and next time i ever post another photo i will make sure to find the source and credit who ever took it. Thanks Max
Old    Steve (crack)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-17-2006, 11:43 AM Reply   
*************Attention************************* **
There are entirely too many words on this "post a pic thread"(including this one___marmoset___) Everyone post one pic right now. Ive got a real funny one for ya soon as I get outta work.
Old    B (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-17-2006, 1:41 PM Reply   
GOD POST SOME PICTS, STOLEN OR WHAT. WHO CARES WHO TOOK THE PICTURE GET OVER IT. IF YOUR PICTURE WAS POSTED YOU SHOULD BE STOKED A 17 YEAR OLD LIKED IT AND YOUR NOT TAKING GAY A$$ PICTURES NO ONE LIKES. I NEED TO FIND A NEW WEBSITE TO CHECK OUT THAT DOESN'T HAS SO MANY CRYBABIES ON IT.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       10-17-2006, 2:02 PM Reply   
Quit yelling!!
Old    Steve (crack)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-17-2006, 2:11 PM Reply   
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! LOUD NOISESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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