I just started trying these on the water and haven't landed one yet, but I feel they are very close. What I have found works best for me is to try to take it straight up by pushing real hard off the wake when you dig your edge. That helped me get more frontroll rotation. I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it. I keep falling out the front. I've been trying to really tug the handle around for the spin to loosen up the line for a good landing. I think I just realized why I'm going out the front, I spot my landing just before 270 and watch the water as I come around, I think I should be looking for the shore at that point... anyone know if that's right? Sorry I can't help, maybe after I start landing a few.