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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through August 27, 2006

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Old    Fill er up (fill_er_up)      Join Date: May 2006       08-02-2006, 11:40 AM Reply   
Water puppy, Simer pumps, or aerators... This question has been posed before, but it seems not recently. The majority of posts lately favor a manifold with gate valve which I like, but am about to put together my system (one fill and one empty per bag) and keep thinking about the idea of one reversible pump on each bag. Any strong opinions pro/con on the diff approaches?
Old    TR (biz)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-02-2006, 11:49 AM Reply   
I have gone back and forth on this as well. If you are looking... I have 3 ballast puppies (the bigger capacity pump) for sale. I just decided to go with a couple of aerators for right now.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-02-2006, 12:17 PM Reply   
Impeller pumps (Simer, Jabsco) make for a simple and reliable installation, but have three distinct drawbacks: 50% or less flow rate, much more noise, and 2-4x the amp draw of aerators.

Aerators are very nice if you can work out the priming issues.
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-02-2006, 12:26 PM Reply   
My 02 SANTE has aerators. They rarely do not prime and if the don't you only have to drive the boat forward 10 feet to get them going. Swapping them is simple and I have an extra in the boat. They draw 6 amps max and are rated at 1100 GPH. Another nice feature is that we can open up all the through hull valves and cruise and the bags will fill up without running the pumps. you do need to shut the valves after fill up which can be a pain.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-02-2006, 12:56 PM Reply   
installed a 4-pump system with aerators. works flawlessly. just install below water level on fill pumps and below the sac for drain. all wired to two switches at the helm. if i were doing a new install, i would put solenoids on each fill line. Thats the only thing I would change about the system
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       08-02-2006, 1:07 PM Reply   
My vote is for aerators. They are a bit more difficult to set up but once they are set up correctly you will have a fast, quiet and troublefree system. Impeller pumps are noisy, power hungry, expensive and slow. The Simers need to be in open ventilated areas because they are not rated for engine compartments or elsewhere where gas fumes may exist (not ignition protected).

A single 1.5" manifold works well for the aerator fill pumps. Trace posted one about a week ago.
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-02-2006, 1:33 PM Reply   
I gotta give some props to livebaitlarry, dude got me a replacement pump and his guy drove it to my house. If you are looking for aerators and plumbing fittings, he has a nice selection.

http://www.livebaitlarry.com
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-02-2006, 1:34 PM Reply   
simer pumps are 60 bucks each, I can live with putting somewhere other than the engine compartment and 600 gph is plenty for me with the ability to fill/drain on the fly this translates into only 5-10 minutes anyways.
Old    Psyclone (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-02-2006, 1:40 PM Reply   
You will be ripping out the Simers and Jabscos after a year or so. They don't hold up. For the expense, I'll gladly take four Rule 1100's over one water puppy. Simers are junk, they have a plastic pump housing. They don't run reliably in reverse and like to burn up impellers at the wrong time. I had one melt the whole pump housing, causing a big leak. I replaced it with a Water puppy, the motor on it failed after 6 months, it didn't get wet or anything. Replaced it with two Wally World Attwood 750's
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-02-2006, 1:42 PM Reply   
I run 3 Jabsco Ballast puppies and have replaced 1 impeller in the past year. I run 8 gauge power and ground wire to each pump and 10 gauge wire from the pumps to the switches. What ever pumps you go with just make sure you use the correct gauge wire and it will save a lot of headaches.
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-02-2006, 3:14 PM Reply   
I had four simer pumps used daily that never once needed an impeller, sounds like you run them dry for too long...

A plus to the simers is that if the impeller does fry, takes about 30 secs to replace.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-02-2006, 10:00 PM Reply   
I'm with Mikeski all the way on this one!
Old    Wes Gardner (wesgardner)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-03-2006, 6:32 AM Reply   
My system uses 4 Tsunami's to fill 2 700's and 2 600's...my fill times are about 3 minutes (OK maybe 4 1/2). I have four switches at the helm for control. I have one 1 1/2" thru hull connected to a 2" manifold... works well, can't hear a thing...the manifold fits back under the motor and can't be seen in the installed pics...to do it "right" you may want to use a bronze valve where I have the pvc ball valve or even an electric gate (rv waste dump valve)
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(Message edited by wesgardner on August 03, 2006)
Old    Rich (rich_g)      Join Date: May 2003       08-03-2006, 7:57 AM Reply   
Wes, when you have 2 pumps hooked up to the same manifold, what keeps one pump from pushing back against the other? does it do that if only one is turned on?

I did have a pvc valve break one time in a setup similar to yours; was able to get on the boat lift before it sank; put in a brass valve the next day.
Old    Wes Gardner (wesgardner)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-03-2006, 9:01 AM Reply   
My manifold pumps are all on the suction side - they are not reversible, check valves stop any "back flow"
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-03-2006, 9:08 AM Reply   
rich - how old was your PVC valve? got a couple in my boat as well. just curious...
Old    Rich (rich_g)      Join Date: May 2003       08-03-2006, 9:22 AM Reply   
not that old, it wasn't the age that got it, it was coming off of a 90 out of the thru-hull, and had a little bit of weight on the end of it from the manifold. it seemed sturdy, but the bouncing from waves cracked it at the joint
Old    Wes Gardner (wesgardner)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-03-2006, 9:35 AM Reply   
Mine is isolated by tubing/hose "shock mounted" - my manifold is padded from the hull with rubber...you DO need to be careful with PVC
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-03-2006, 9:43 AM Reply   
Ok, think I'll be fine. my setup t's off the thru hull, then valves, then pumps. hopefully it will stay balanced..
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-03-2006, 9:46 AM Reply   
Everything below the waterline from the hole in the hull to the seacock / emergency shutoff valve *should* be brass, but even boat mfrs don't always seem to follow this.

I've also had better luck than Psyclone with my Simer systems over the last ~6 seasons, only had to change 3 or 4 impellers. That said, I'm in the process of changing over to an aerator system right now for the reasons above.
Old    Psyclone (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-03-2006, 7:40 PM Reply   
The Simer I had didn't have a chance to run dry, it failed draining a full sack. It may have been defective, hard to tell when the pump body melted.

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