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Old    Clayton191 (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-14-2006, 9:54 AM Reply   
What is the difference between a 15W40 Heavy Duty oil and a 15W40 Marine? I CAN NOT FIND Pennzoil 15W40 Marine anywhere and I want to change the oil tonight vs. three weeks from now when I get my quarts from the Internet.

Also, are most people very loyal to filters or could I use a fram instead of the pennzoil pz3?

Just curious - i've never really cared about oil in my car before, but muh boat is muh baby....
Old    Stan Tanner (sbt3)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-14-2006, 10:00 AM Reply   
I use the heavy duty 15W40 mobile oil in my nautique and haven't had any problems. Not sure what the difference is, probably nothing.

I would try to stay away from fram if possible. Go to a autoparts store and pick up a wix filter or something like that.
Old    Clayton191 (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-14-2006, 10:03 AM Reply   
hot, i'll just get the 15w40.
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-14-2006, 10:04 AM Reply   
Clayton, I could not find it either anywhere. I ended up contacting Indmar and they said it was fine to use Rotella 15W 40. I also am having to use a fram.
Old    NAW (ripr)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-14-2006, 10:05 AM Reply   
I've been using Rotella and any filter that cross references with the PZ3.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-14-2006, 10:08 AM Reply   
DO NOT use Fram filters. There are plenty of far better choices. I like WIX and Purolator. My Indmar uses the same filter as a late 80's 2WD Chevy truck.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       07-14-2006, 10:09 AM Reply   
I use whatever 15w40 I can find, I'm actually goingot go with a 20w next time (living in houston, it's very hot, pretty much year round) I'm the same way with filters whatever fits. I've read all the stuff on the internet bashing differnt brands. But have had no problems with frams (premium) in the past nor has anyone I've every talked to.
Old    Clayton191 (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-14-2006, 10:12 AM Reply   
sweet. i take the advice you guys give as gospel - you've never seemed to lead me in the wrong direction.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-14-2006, 10:32 AM Reply   
NAPA Gold filters have the marine grade housing. The main difference between a marine and regular filter is the burst strength of the housing.

Oil is oil. Look at the rating required.
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-14-2006, 10:40 AM Reply   
No real difference whatsoever.. Except the everything branded as "marine" cost freakin twice as much. I changed the starter on my merc last year and the "car" version was half the price of the "marine". Same stuff different color...
Old    Stanfield (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-14-2006, 10:49 AM Reply   
15w40 oils are simply labeled "diesel" which is why everyone passes them over. I personally use Castrol 15w40 diesel and the purolator that crosses with the pz3. No issues.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-14-2006, 11:13 AM Reply   
There is a profound difference between a marine and an automotive starter, alternator, distributor, and fuel system. They are NOT the same. All the electrical systems have "explosion proof" housings. You will find flame screens, plates, and other features to isolate a spark from the potentially explosive environment in a bilge. Other parts have special features for marine use (non-corrosive leads on spark plug wires, different seals on carbs, different grinds on cams for low-end torque, fuel hoses, etc.).

There are regulations on marine engine parts - USCG approval, NMMA, other certs - that you need for safety. I have seen, personally, two fires from automotive starters igniting the fumes in the bilge. I was a USCG officer, so I investigated the incidents.

Oil is the same. Use a high burst strength filter and you are fine.
Old    David Polk (smackus)      Join Date: Apr 2004       07-14-2006, 11:36 AM Reply   
Fram filters were rated the highest by consumer reports a few years back. I assume the are still the same. IMO you are wasting money bying marine grade oil/filters for a sport boat that is not on the ocean. I use Mobile one with a decent standard automotive oil filter. Fram is just fine.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-14-2006, 11:54 AM Reply   
NAPA Gold is less than a buck more than a cheapie. Your money, but I'll drink one less can of Dew and put it into a better filter housing. Is it really worth less than a buck? If it were $20 more, I can see an arguement. Arguing over pocket change? Why?
Old    Jay (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-14-2006, 1:41 PM Reply   
Bob
If you have a family and you have them on your boat do the right thing CHANGE YOUR STARTER! it is foolish to have anything BUT marine parts on your boat. Karl hit the nail on the head I to have seen an explosion in a bilge caused from a car starter luckily it was small and knowone was hurt BUT that is rairly the case.
as for oil filters I to would stay away from FRAM filters I have seen a cutout of a fram next to a good filter like BALDWIN or WIX and a FRAM pailes in compairison as for oil I take the advice from all my race buddies and use Diesel approved oil it still has all the zink in it that regular oil is without these days and zink my friend is what makes oil oil
JJ
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-15-2006, 5:36 AM Reply   
Jay. The thing about marine starters is that they have a small seal thats supposed to prevent electric sparks from contacting with gas fumes.. in a well vented space / open air this simply cannot be an issue. Sparks don't ignite unless the engine compartment is closed and quite full of gasses. I keep my engine cover open whenever i'm not onboard and always vent properly before i start it up while at sea. No problem. Also these parts are insanely expensive overe here so all things concidered and me not being some rich i'll stick with the cheaper alternative. We're talking close to $300 here, thats money to me.
Old    Scott Root (sroot1)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-15-2006, 7:25 AM Reply   
How many hours between oil changes Is the average?
I have just been using Mercruiser oil and filters, then just changing at the end of the season. We are lucky If we get 100hrs. In for the season here on Lake Erie.
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-15-2006, 10:04 AM Reply   
Scott, most of us will do more than ok if we change filters once a year. i always change oil and filter in the fall while winterizing the boat
Old    Jay (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-15-2006, 10:09 AM Reply   
Bob
good luck But..if you do decide play it safe you know precious cargo and all. Go to DB Electricial Rebuilders on the net you can buy a Marine starter for about 110 bones well worth the piece of mind in my book hell for that matter 1000 dollars is well worth it BUT... I have three kids that ride in my boat. and really whats $300 apposed to $100 for a car starter a day on the lake. just my 02 I like to see people being safe at sea.
JJ
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-15-2006, 10:21 AM Reply   
Jay
I'm with you all the way on safety and proper marine products. However i'm in Scandinavia, Europe and even if i ordered the $110 starter it'd be at least double that before i could touch it with the freigh and insane taxes we got here. We're like the most expensive country in the world.. for real.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-15-2006, 10:21 AM Reply   
Scott, Indmar says change oil every 50 hours, Mercruiser says change oil every 100 hours. I change mine at 50 hours. While under warrenty I use Mercruiser (Quicksilver at Walmart) 15W50 marine oil. After warrenty period n my last boat I changed to Mobil 1 - 15W50 Racing Oil.
Old    Brad (spoonman)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-15-2006, 10:38 AM Reply   
George does your owners manual say its ok to use synthetic? My mercruiser manual specifically says not to although mine is considerably older (2000).I am interested to see if they changed their stance...
Old    Jay (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-15-2006, 11:28 AM Reply   
Bob
You might want to wire a timer on your bilge blower so you cant start you motor unless your bilge has been on for like 30 sec cheep insurance and you can pick up everything you need at your local electrical warehouse. any way GOOD LUCK hope all works out
JJ
Old    Dirty D (dkjbama92mariah)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-15-2006, 11:34 AM Reply   
Bob, i empathize with the extra cost across the pond. You have to ask, is it worth the $200 if you, your family or friends gets hurt or dies in a fire?

DKJ
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-15-2006, 11:41 AM Reply   
spoken like a true rich bitch ..lol
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-15-2006, 11:50 AM Reply   
actually it's kinda like saying i wanna kill myself, my wife and everyone else i see just cause i dont get the best freakin' tires for my car.. Do you guys ever barbecue? Do you worry your bbq could explode and kill everyone.. think dudes.. think
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-15-2006, 12:06 PM Reply   
Brad, I haven't switdhed the Mercruiser over yet, plant to later this year. Mercruiser is now selling a Synthetic Blend 15W40 oil. There are no warnings in my owners manual.
Old    Dirty D (dkjbama92mariah)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-15-2006, 12:07 PM Reply   
Blow me bob. We're just reminding you of the scope of the risk you're taking.

DKJ
Old    Clayton191 (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-15-2006, 1:36 PM Reply   
If this GOshDAMN OIL FILTER DOES NOT COME OFF SOMEONE IS GOING TO DIE!

(*INSERT INSANE LEVELS OF FRUSTATION*)



HAISLJ:FHP(*SDGP(*)UWEP(*jhrep8hrgfepnn;re k
Old    Jay (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-15-2006, 1:48 PM Reply   
WOW this thread took a turn for the worst calm down guys.
Hay 191 clean the outside with degreaser then try I would hate to see someone die because of a filter or a starter or an alternater for that matter remember righty tighty lefty loosy
JJ
Old    Clayton191 (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-15-2006, 2:01 PM Reply   
jay or anyone ...

SO THE TOP OF THE OIL FILTER is into the engine. I have driven a screwdriver through the oil filter. I am twisting toward the engine block - is this right? My screwdriver has actually ripped through the filter ...

Is there ANYTHING I can do to get this thing off?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Old    Jay (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-15-2006, 2:09 PM Reply   
Nope your gonna have to give me your boat and buy another one if its warm the rubber on the filter is sticky and aparently you or whomever put the filter on the last time didnt oil the rubber gasket on the filter wait until it cools down and try or try to cool it down somehow next time oil the filter and only put it on by hand tight I mean "tight" but only hand tight
hope it helps
JJ
Old    Dirty D (dkjbama92mariah)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-15-2006, 2:24 PM Reply   
Turn it counterclockwise to remove. Go get yourself a BIG set of vicegrip pliers.

DKJ
Old    Clayton191 (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-15-2006, 4:20 PM Reply   
I'm going to kill the m'fer that put this oil filter on with no oil on the rubber ... your right, i think that the rubber piece is melted to the engine block and its stuck. I have had a jiffy lube dude try a set of "pliers" though I havent tried really large vice grips - home depot? Who knows. I'm about to lose it. I've spent over 5 hours today trying to change my own oil. They can charge me three hundred dollars - I'm never going to do this again! Arg.
Old    Dirty D (dkjbama92mariah)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-15-2006, 4:40 PM Reply   
Deep breath Clayton. Take a break, have a beer, chill out, and deal with it tomorrow. Working on stuff while extremely frustrated is a good way to break stuff. If you do it yourself, you dont have to worry bout someone else screwing it up and you having to go through this again.

DKJ
Old    Jay (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-15-2006, 4:46 PM Reply   
I still say your gonna have to give me the boat
JJ
Old    Ben (schackdaddy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-15-2006, 5:06 PM Reply   
if the vise grips don't work just put a screwdriver through it anduse it is a T-handle.
Old    Jay (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-15-2006, 5:09 PM Reply   
he did that
JJ
Old    Clayton191 (clayton191)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-16-2006, 2:21 AM Reply   
After FIVE hours - I finally figured it out ... used a regular oil filter wrench, but put sandpaper around it. The sandpaper, while kind of thick and definately having some grip, was able to better hold the filter and I finally got it off -- installed the new filter (with oil rubbed on the rubber part) and hand tightened it.

Ran great for some late-almost-dark wakeboarding.

IT SUCKS when you have a ton of people over at your house DYING to go out and the oil filter will not come out! Oh well - turned out ok!

Sorry I freaked out - I'd rather go nuts on the Internet then randomly freak out on my roommate who I have to see and deal with on a daily basis! :-) hahaha
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-16-2006, 12:05 PM Reply   
Derek.. what kinda lame brain dillhole comment is that? Blow you? You're just pathetic lady..

Oh and sorry all you other guys for imposing this crap on your post.. I'll shut up now
Old    Shawn (csquared)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-16-2006, 8:41 PM Reply   
Was this the first oil change???....If so, removing the PZ3 oil filter is a TREMENDOUS PITA. Not only is it on too tight but for some reason, it is a little small and doesn't fit the oil filter wrench like it should. Sandpaper trick is a the perfect solution.

You won't have the same problem in the future.

FWIW, the NAPA Gold 1069 filter is the cross-reference for the PZ3 and their 15W-40 oil is a good oil (exceeds the Indmar service requirements).
Old    benf            07-16-2006, 8:47 PM Reply   
For anyone who cares,I found the Pennzoil Marine SAE 15w40 @ shipstore.com
Old    Dirty D (dkjbama92mariah)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-16-2006, 9:49 PM Reply   
Bob, i was merely responding to your attack on me when you called me a "rich bitch." We both broke forum rules, and i will not continue to break them by responding to your last attack.

My apologies to the rest of the forum for the thread hijack.

Regards,
DKJ

(Message edited by dkjbama92mariah on July 16, 2006)
Old    Doug (supradoug)      Join Date: Dec 2001       07-16-2006, 9:57 PM Reply   
Just remember."rightie tightie, leftie loosey"
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-17-2006, 7:25 AM Reply   
Many marine starters use the same automotive case with some additional parts put in place. I have used a auto starter case with the marine parts to get an older Merc going. Cost me $40 and 1/2 hour of time.

In the US, almost all marine insurance polices only cover engines that are compliant with the original build standards. If you swap out regulated parts with unregulated parts, you may be denied coverage. Take out your own policy and see what is written.

Obviously, I have no experience in Europe, so I cannot comment with any authority.

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