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Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-30-2006, 10:49 AM Reply   
I searched the forums for diesel engines and while there was no thread specifically for diesels, I foung that a couple threads veer off topic into diesel discussion. These threads had many posts so i think it wouldbe an interesting topic. I like diesels and plan on getting a 2001 nautique and putting a diesel inside in the next 2 years. So put in your .02 and your knowledge about these engines bc i have an intresest in diesels and i think others do as well.
Old    Ben (schackdaddy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-30-2006, 1:03 PM Reply   
Someone made a comment about the exhaust of a diesel. I agree they have a lot more visable exhaust, just something that will have to think about when routing the exhaust and where it exits the boat.
Old    Thomas Schön (wakeboat)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-30-2006, 1:06 PM Reply   
Hello-look at this,the future from good old germany !!!!
http://www.volkswagen-marine.com/vwm/index.php?id=2&L=0&tx_lienginesheet_pi1[engine]=11,the 225-6 is the new mastercraft engine,see the picture

(Message edited by wakeboat on June 30, 2006)

(Message edited by wakeboat on June 30, 2006)
Old    Kevin aka Chino (big_xstar)      Join Date: Nov 2004       06-30-2006, 1:17 PM Reply   
Nice link to the Germany VW Site, but I need a
translator.

(Message edited by big_x-star on June 30, 2006)
Old    Dex (tarpongator)      Join Date: Jan 2006       06-30-2006, 1:57 PM Reply   
There was a Session boat ad in Wakeboarding magazine and the ad mentioned optional diesel engine.
Old    Tickle (showtime)      Join Date: Nov 2005       06-30-2006, 2:02 PM Reply   
what type of diesel are you talking about --- what year and model?
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       06-30-2006, 2:36 PM Reply   
Kevin,after you go to the link provided,go to the top right corner,there is a english button there.
Old    S Dub (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-30-2006, 3:30 PM Reply   
I ran across a good article in FL Wake Magazine about a company Mastry Engine Center putting a diesel in a 03 X Star. There is not a link to the article but it had some good info.

They stuck a 4.1L 315HP Yanmar in it and ran some tests. The article claims it they loaded it down with 2,100 lbs ballats, plus another 1,165 lbs of people weight and pulled up a rider taking 19.8 seconds to go from stop to 23 mph. The same test was done on a 6.0L 385 hp X star and that boat took 27.5 seconds.

What was most interesting was they claimed the gas boat burned 9 to 13 gallons per hour with all that weight ( seems a little high to me but I dont have that big a boat or that much wiehgt.) They say the 6.0L X burned 9.5 gals per hour. The Yamnar deisel was noted as running for 14 hours on 57 gallons of diesel, or 4 gals per hour. That could save you some serious scratch over the life of the boat.


Anyway the article says learn more at http://mastry.com/.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-30-2006, 6:16 PM Reply   
Thats why i want a diesel boat. I know i sound ridiculous bc I dont even have my own boat, but i hope to transplant a deisel into a 2001. Does anyone know if a yanmar 315 hp engine will fit the tranny of a 2001? If i do switch i would pick the yanmar bc it seems thats the only engine thats been tested wakeboarding.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-30-2006, 7:37 PM Reply   
Heres a link to the Yanmar 315 hp in the X starhttp://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/23XStar-253004.pdf
At boarding speeds it ONLY USES 2 GPH!
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-30-2006, 7:41 PM Reply   
Heres a link to the Yanmar 315 hp in the x80
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/28Maristar-253005.pdf
Not as efficiant bc its a bigger boat.
Old    rodney (azwakekid)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-30-2006, 8:53 PM Reply   
the next problem is who is going to service it in your area when something goes wrong? cause pretty much unless your by the ocean and know a good mechanic u are sol. but that is just what i think
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       06-30-2006, 9:32 PM Reply   
Yeah, every 16 year old I know has the resources to handle such a chore... have you tried wakeboarder.com?
Old    Greg McNeill (greg2)      Join Date: May 2002       06-30-2006, 11:40 PM Reply   
Did you see the service interval on the VW engine? Oil change once a year or every 200 hours....sure beats every 50!
Old    why_i_work            07-01-2006, 12:05 AM Reply   
What about filling up at the lake. Not too many marinas' I know sell diesel.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-01-2006, 4:44 AM Reply   
I ride in a saltwater creek behind every kind of boat imaginable. I have a nice 18.5 Sea Hunt that has a Yamaha 115 four stroke that i wakeskate behind. And my smart friend has a 2002 xstar that he rides in the creek, and i wakeboard behind that. The only problem is that it breaks every other week,and every winter they trailer it to orlando to get serviced, which is costly. The only other inboard in the creek is a 1989 "2001" which i love. I go behind that sometimes and love the wake. It never breaks either. I live 5 min away from the landing and there are many gas stations on the way.

Mikeski
I have already saved 1300 $ for a boat since I got A job 4 months ago. It was my first job so i didnt work alot to begin with. But i just bought a truck(had too pay half)and the rest of the money goes to gas for the truck. I know a kid my age who is a waiter at a restaruant/bar and works as manager in an ice cream shop that makes over 20k a year. Hes the hardest working sob ever! So i am hopeful i can get 5000-6000$ in the next year and buy the boat by next summer.
Old     (midwesty)      Join Date: Aug 2003       07-01-2006, 9:28 AM Reply   
diesel emmissions are cleaner than the gas exhaust, just visible
Old    Tate Viehmann (redv215)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-01-2006, 9:35 AM Reply   
What the do you know Jonny?! You can't even keep yours running.
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2006, 9:58 AM Reply   
Elliott,

I like your ideas, I'm questioning how cost effective it might be. For instance, lets say you can buy a 2001 for $5000 that produces 4 GPH. Then lets say you sink $4500 into the diesel conversion. Let's say the diesel platform generates 2GPH. Assume $3/gal Gas, $3.30/gal Diesel. You're now saving $5.40/hr by switching to diesel.

You'll have to run 834 hours to break even. 834 multiplied by $5.40 is greater than the cost of the conversion @ $4500. It seems diesel has always been about $.30 more per gallon. When gas was $1.50/gal diesel was 20% more @ $1.8. Gas at $3/gal, diesel is 10% more @ 3.30. Perhaps at $6/gal, diesel will be 5% more @ $6.30/gal. The point I'm trying to make is that the diesel cost benefit diminishes with increased gas prices.

Rodney, Anyone who has the mechanical ability to convert a Ski boat to a diesel platform has the ability to perform all their own maintenance, thus negating the need for a mechanic.

Some of the technical challenges will be, Engine/Trans mating, finding Watercooled exhaust manifolds, developing the 24 Volt starting system (depending on the package you end up with), considering wither or not the 2001 streamers will handle the added torque output of the diesel - probably not a problem, and building engine mounts.
Old     (midwesty)      Join Date: Aug 2003       07-01-2006, 10:32 AM Reply   
tate,

that truck is finally long gone, only been down 2 years.
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-01-2006, 10:38 AM Reply   
Greg,the thing with diesel is you probably won't need to fill on the lake plus the demand get big enough and puff it just appears.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2006, 12:31 PM Reply   
Even on the delta, where big cruisers with diesel engines are plentiful, diesel isn't the easiest thing to find on the water. I can only think of one between Antioch and Stockton (but I'm sure there is more)
Old    elias haldeman (elo)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2006, 12:41 PM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=516 he used diesel
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-01-2006, 4:39 PM Reply   
Gotta give him major props.

Craig,thanks for actually posting something helpful. My dad owns a (big)local landscaping business and buys truck loads of diesel at a time. Somehow its tax deductable, so I didnt do the math but its dirt cheap.(Thats why i just got a 1986 chevy k5 with a 6.2 diesel. Just got it out of the shop with an 8 in lift and 38 in swampers.)Sorry , excited, 1st car. Thats why i want a diesel boat.

And what are "streamers"?

These will bolt on where any gm engine was. I was looking at a 2001 with a gm 454 so this might fit?
http://www.marinedieselusa.com/marine-engine-inboard.html
What do you guys think?
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-01-2006, 8:30 PM Reply   
In LA we have a lot of diesel at marinas because of all the fishing boats. You can actually buy diesel a lot cheaper than gas because marine (red) diesel is 50 cents cheaper per gallon because you don't have to pay hwy taxes on it.

Also, not everyone buys fuel at marinas. I get all of my gas at a gas station. Unfortunately I can't get a tax refund because they dont offer that in LA.

(Message edited by malibuboarder75 on July 01, 2006)
Old    Kyle L (skier12)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-01-2006, 9:11 PM Reply   
Elliot,
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/339886.html?1151806166
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/321176.html?1149992388
Checkout this 2001 you have to finish the boat but the guy gives you the option of just buying the boat. $2800 for newly painted hull and trailer. It would def cut down on the initial start-up cost. I would def like to findout what kind of fuel economy is possible with a smaller boat like a 2001 and a diesel engine.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-01-2006, 9:26 PM Reply   
So id have to place in:
seats
carpet
motor
tranny
windshield
What about guages and all that stuff?
Is there more?
Looks like leos wants it pretty badly...are you getting it?
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-02-2006, 4:24 AM Reply   
Yea dude, I am working on it. I think we may have worked out a deal. If you want to move to Texas, we can go in on it half way and let you install a diesel. Doubt you want to do that.
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-02-2006, 9:58 AM Reply   
"Streamers" are the two structural beams that run front to back. The engine mounts sit on the streamers. I'd guess that on a 2001 the streamers are wood. If you look at the pictures of that 2001 that's for sale, you can see them between the engine bilge and the exhaust.

Some diesel engines are quite torquey. I'd be concerned if you snapped the throttle hard once that it may lift the left side engine mount out of the streamer. This probably wouldn't happen, though you may consider it from a design perspective.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-02-2006, 10:34 AM Reply   
Strength issues aside for now:

1)How could I mount a different engine on the streamers?
2)Could I get an apadpter that would allow me to mate the motor(lets say the Yanmar would be 1st pic b/c they have been tst behind wake boats)to the stock transmission.
I was looking at 2001s for sale on boat trader and one had a gm 454. Do you think this guy had to get a new tranny?
These are the only 2 major problems.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-02-2006, 8:27 PM Reply   
The 2001 with a 454 is the barefoot edition. It had more power for more speed. Now that engine technology has improved, there is no need for a 454 in any engine because you can get the same performance with a 350 with a few upgrades.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-02-2006, 9:12 PM Reply   
Does any one know how they put the yanmar in the xstar?
Did Thet have to get a new v drive?
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-03-2006, 1:11 AM Reply   
Uh I think you mean "Stringers" not streamers
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-03-2006, 9:36 AM Reply   
lol.. You know, I kept thinking to myself, "streamers" doesn't sound right.

Yes, "Stringers"
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-03-2006, 3:15 PM Reply   
here's another diesel pro : Over here you can run boats on "non-taxed" diesel. Same as regular diesel but intended for agricultural use only and coloured so it's easy to check if anyone use it in roadcars or trucks (illegal and makes roe insane fines) However : the coulored diesel only costs about 3/5 of the regular stuff.. Makes boating way cheaper. I'm wishing to switch from a 4.3 merc gas huffer to a nice turbo-diesel myself
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-03-2006, 4:31 PM Reply   
Bob, I mentioned that earlier as marine diesel. Same thing. I didn't know it was 3/5 the price of road diesel.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-03-2006, 4:56 PM Reply   
Bob, do you, or anyone else know if i could bolt a different engine to the same direct drive tranny used in a 2001. Do all trannys fit all marine motors? For example if you wanted a x star with the 8.1 liter vortec, would that transmission bolt on to the 350 hp MCX engine or would they swap?
Old    nate (gr8n8)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-03-2006, 5:03 PM Reply   
Diesels are heavier than gas motors, also in order to get the hp/torq, you need a turbo diesel. The problem with that is turbo lag. I drive a ford W/ a 6.0L T.D. Sweet truck but only 1 problem. Turbo lag
Old    cwbabsolute1080            07-03-2006, 7:04 PM Reply   
Hey I guys.. I live here in St. Pete, FL and I ride a bunch behind that 2003 Diesel X-star... VERY VERY GOOD IDEA AND IT WILL BE CATCHING ON SOON... That test results are all true... they took the boat to orlando and compared the diesel with Zane Schwanks X-star (normal engine) and it really did out perform it in everything... plus now when I ride behind it.... we are out for hours and the gas needle BARELY MOVES..... which is a wakeboarders dream!! Also the x-star has a huge wake
Old    B. Eriksen (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-06-2006, 7:16 AM Reply   
Nate, not too sure about all engines fitting all trannies i'm afraid. However this is an issue solved by car customizers and hotrodders since way before my time so it should be doable, in theory anyway. You might have to fabricate some engine mounts and possibly a few brackets tho.
Old    Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-06-2006, 11:29 AM Reply   
Elliot:

Are you really into auto mechanics as a hobby?

If not, then I would not recommend attempting such a project. A Nautique 2001 is a direct drive boat, correct? Here are some of the issues that I would expect you would run into:

1) engine mounts: very unlikely that the diesel engine would have the mounts in the exact same place. It might not be very difficult to change the mounts, but you might need to have something custom made.

2) Transmission: As you have already realized the tranny is going to be an issue.

3) Clearance under crankshaft center: Let me try to explain this: The propshaft enters the bottom of the boat at a certain angle and as it goes foward inside the boat it gains space above the hull. The centerline of the engine crankshaft will be inline with the prop shaft. The engine needs to be mounted far enough forward to provide space for the oil pan under the engine. Because diesels have longer stroke than a gas the oil pan will be lower under the crank. You may need to move the engine farther forward just to provide clearance under the oil pan.

4) Engine length: Diesels tend to be built a little beefier then their gas counterparts. Cylinder walls are thicker, the blocks are heavier, just built stronger. The engines tend to be bigger: taller, wider and longer. As I previously said the rear of the engine may need to be farther foward to give space for the deeper pan, and the front of the engine might be even farther forward because the engine is longer. You might be really crowding the driver and observer seats. A bigger problem is that the engine might need to be farther forward than the "bilge" space permits. Most direct drive ski boats I have seen have the center pole mount pretty darn close to the front engine pulley. The center pole mount usually ties into the skeg mounts so removing it might be a problem.

5) Perfect Pass: I wouldn't have a wakeboard boat without PP, and I am not sure what problems you would have adapting Perfect Pass to a diesel engine.

6) Fuel system: As a minimum you will need to modify the fuel tank to provide the fuel return line (diesels pump excess fuel and send the left over back to the tank)

7) Engine cover: I would be really surprised if the cover fit. Compared to everything else a new cover will be easy to make, but it will be visible so you will want it to look nice.

8) Cost: The hull and the engine will be the major costs, but all the misc. stuff will really add up! I bet that even if you picked up the hull for free by the time you had such a project finished you could have bought a fairly new boat in great condition.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-07-2006, 6:20 PM Reply   
Wow, thanks for the info. I just thought it would be cool to have a diesel boat. And i was looking at 2 speed trannys. I cant find any prices on engines or tranmissions so i have no idea about the cost.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-08-2006, 1:51 AM Reply   
Ebay has a few marine diesels. I think you will need to get a marine diesel if you buy one because I have been told the gear ratio and cam shaft is different on marine applications (because you dont have a gear box). I am guessing you will need an engine that gets about 3000rpm if you plan on wakeboarding. I have been around really big diesel fishing boats and a lot of them had like 65hp diesel engines, but the torque was incredible. So I don't know how you will figure all of that out. Good luck on the project and finding an engine that will be suitable. It is a good project, but I dont suggest doing it unless you have about $10k to spend.
Old    Jay (jay_g)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-09-2006, 11:08 PM Reply   
Go for the whole thing If you put a diesel engine in convert it to run on vegitable oil. Free Gas with purchase of fri's

http://www.dieselveg.com/
Old    Justyn Cousino (cooze)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-10-2006, 8:39 AM Reply   
No one has brought up the idea of Bio-Diesel? Would it work it a boat? If so you can make it for under 50 cents a gallon!
Old    ilovetrains            07-11-2006, 10:13 AM Reply   
If you are serious about this, you might want to think about the GM diesel's. As a Cummins owner, I don't have a high oppinion of them, however they solve a lot fo your problems. The bell housing is a standard 350 bolt pattern, so any transmission that bolted to a 350 will bolt up. the elctronics are also pretty standard GM, and they will run in a 12 volt system with a second battery on a relay to the starter. They use small turbos so very little turbo lag and are only marginally larger than GM blocks using GM engine mounts. They are also cheap as dirt from junk yards. As for cooling, why not run an enclosed cooling system? You could even build a lake fed intercooler.

Look at some of the GM diesel sites for some further advice.
Old    Eric G. (cinder1995)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-12-2006, 7:19 PM Reply   
Their are people in the states that will convert your diesel to "greasel" too. I've thought about it several times.

Hey Mathew, why don't you like Cummins? I've talked to a few Cummins owners with over a million miles on them. I have one and it runs beautifully.

(Message edited by cinder1995 on July 12, 2006)
Old    ilovetrains            07-12-2006, 8:06 PM Reply   
I meant I did not have high opinion of GM disels. Mine is starting to throw some codes. Of course that might be related to the fact it's running 1K ft lbs. Gonna have to find a "friendly" dealer who will not notice the box and replace the crank position sensor without much lip under warranty.

No better diesel engine on the planet than the Cummins.

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