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Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-08-2005, 3:42 PM Reply   
Got to take a short ride last week, but tomorrow will give them a good testing. Love them so far. Can't wait!!!!

Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       12-08-2005, 3:48 PM Reply   
Is that the Oogle on the right? I wanna try, I wanna try! Where did you get them? What time are you going to be out there tomorrow?
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-09-2005, 1:52 AM Reply   

Yea, Oogle on the right, Prop on the left. I am heading out about 7A, and will probably start surfing about 10 or so. Should be there til about 3 or 4. Hit me up. Are you coming out on your boat? If not, jump on mine and take them for a spin.
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-09-2005, 1:54 AM Reply   

BTW you can take off my double post above. Fingers were too fast or something. Sorry.

(619) 261-1181
Old     (greg__s)      Join Date: Jul 2004       12-09-2005, 5:36 PM Reply   
Nice! I have the Oogle on my gift list this month.

You guys are still out riding San V?
Old     (gvb)      Join Date: May 2003       12-09-2005, 5:57 PM Reply   
Got a chance to ride the Oogle (thanks Mike) and loved it. I own a boat and will be buying a wakesurf board in the next month or so, but since it's the only board I'll have, I'd like something that everyone can use.

You guys think the Oogle will be easy enough for beginners to ride, or should I go with the 4'6" or 5' LF Skimskate (my other choice)?

Old     (greg__s)      Join Date: Jul 2004       12-09-2005, 6:17 PM Reply   
I have a 5' LF for sale. Could work for everybody. $160 and I'll bring it to your house.
Old    jesiday            12-10-2005, 12:01 PM Reply   

I would go with the Skimskate before I go with a 4'6". So many of those are VERY squirrelly and take a little bit to get used to. I haven't had anyone that couldn't ride the skim skate. The only thing that kind of bites about the skim skate is that it is a little slower and tends to grip harder. Not a problem for beginners, but just an annoyance to me.

Still liking your new boat???

Old     (gvb)      Join Date: May 2003       12-10-2005, 12:11 PM Reply   

I'll let you know what I decide.


Well, it's either a 4'6" Skimskate or a 5' Skimskate (LF makes both sizes). I am really leaning towards the Phase Five Oogle though... I think it gives me the best of both worlds. I am going to try and get one of each and ride them back to back before I decide.

I love the new VLX! Haven't had a chance to take it out again, but I am thinking about a river trip in Jan... maybe MLK weekend. We'll see if we can get Buzz out there. Water should be nice and cold.

Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-10-2005, 9:12 PM Reply   
Buzz, I really need to jet down there and go out with you guys one Friday. Whats the closest airport?
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-12-2005, 12:17 AM Reply   
Got to spend some good time on the new boards, and LOVE them both. Definately notice a ride difference between the two. When I find a few minutes, I will write more of a review on both. Can't wait until I can get out again and spend more time on them.


Hell yes we are still riding. Still water in the lake!! That would be about the only thing stopping some of us. Heck, last Friday I wimped and wore a shorty, but a couple of the girls trunked it. OK, they are a little nuts. I have to say that Friday was probably the BEST day I have ever spent on San V as far as the water. I am serious - glass all day, except around 3 there was a slight (very slight) wind chop. Most of the day there was 1 or 2 other wakeboard boats on the whole lake. Let me know if you can make a Friday sometime.


sounds like a plan! Still checking my schedule. Love your new boat!


Lindbergh Field. I will pick you up, and give you a place to stay! Let me know.
Old     (malibu)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-14-2005, 10:33 AM Reply   
What board did you ride before the Phase 5? Was it hard to learn to ride the Phase 5 without the handle and stay in the wave? I ride a 5'6" Landlock so the Phase 5 would be a big change. I am interested in the Oggle but I should wait until Spring so I can demo one.
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-15-2005, 1:32 AM Reply   

My original board is a CWB Ride, and I have not been very happy with it. It was easy to ride, cuts nice, etc, but very hard to keep the nose from going under. Others had the same problem. I find the Oogle is just as easy, if not easier to ride, but rides and handles MUCH better. The Oogle (and the Prop) are very fast. I really have to pay attention so I don't run into the boat. It feels like it is just slicker on the water. No problem at all riding ropeless. I think the Oogle would be a great board to learn on, and you can progress a long way with it. The Prop would be a bit more work for a beginner, just because it feels shorter, quicker, etc. It is a great board though. I have only spent 2 days on these, but love them! I have ridden a HL Broadcast, and a LF Skimskate (my other favorite, after the Phase 5's).

Yea, the Phase 5 would be a big change from the Landlock. Like going from an SUV to a sports car, IMO. Go for it!

Your profile does not say where you are at. I am in So Cal if you want to take them for a spin.

Good luck.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-15-2005, 4:28 PM Reply   
We have trouble with burying the nose on my Broadcast 5.6, especially when surfing on the goofy side. It seems like the nose needs much more rocker.
Old     (malibu)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-15-2005, 5:45 PM Reply   
Thanks for the info. The Oogle and Prop sound like a blast. I think it's been three years since I started surfing, I have one of the first Landlocks to come out. I am ready for a change. I like the idea that the Phase 5's are fast. I wish I was in So Cal this time of year. I am in Boise,Idaho. I surf year around when I can find a third but it is really cold right now. Thanks for the offer though.
Old     (niap101)      Join Date: Jul 2004       12-16-2005, 5:11 AM Reply   
Check out for videos of Trick Boardz surfing even after the nose goes underwater. We will have pictures of this as well on the updated website which should be ready in a few days.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-16-2005, 3:59 PM Reply   
Hey Buzz, with all due respect, I've ridden virtually every board commerically available (thanks mostly to my son James, pictured below) he gets offers to test or he's won them in competitions. The Phase 5/Zap skimmers are nice boards for their intended purposes. But fast? I really would recommend you try some of the more high-end wakesurfers, compare those to the mass produced offerings. I think you'll find the difference is night and day. A picture of my new ride is below James.

Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-16-2005, 4:00 PM Reply   

Old     (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-16-2005, 4:44 PM Reply   
Jeff, what high end surfers are you talking about? I want something that's FAST.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-16-2005, 6:38 PM Reply   
Hey Scott, what sort of "FAST" are you looking for: Down the line fast for aerial moves like James above, or rail-to-rail fast for quick turns...OR...did you want both? NOW, I want to go on record as being a more "surfstyle" fan than skimstyle. That said, Inland Surfer's Yellow Loogy is very fast down-the-line, arguably the fastest. It's a bit wide for my tastes rail-to-rail, though. The definitive surface "fast" is the Trick Boardz Surfskate. NOTHING spins faster, PERIOD. Take the fins off and spin yourself sick. For the best all around rail-to-rail and down the line speed I like Mike's ( F-18 in 4'6" above.

I do believe that a duplicate of the board above is going to be given away to a registered user at Nothing faster than a free board, eh? :-)

Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-16-2005, 8:02 PM Reply   
Great looking board Jeff, I love wakesurfing but so far have not been able to let go of the rope for more then like 15 seconds
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-16-2005, 8:09 PM Reply   
Dan, make sure you get your boat to list hard, get the rub rail near the water, put as much weight as far out board as possible, that should make your wake better and surfing easier.

I was going to buy a Trick Boardz but my boat dealer talked me out of it, maybe next season.
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-16-2005, 10:24 PM Reply   
Im gonna totaly get it dialed in this summer, so what board should I get that will stay locked in on the wave and will be easy to do spins? Or was that already answered here and I didnt see it?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-17-2005, 6:36 AM Reply   
Hey Daniel, You GO! I'm sure you'll get it wired. In regard to the board you want:

"locked in on the wave and will be easy to do spins?"

The two goals tend to be mutually exclusive. "Locked in" is a function of drive and is usually associated with deeper fins. The "ease of spin" functionality is associated with the ability to break the fins loose, less deep fins or fins that are placed further back.

The Trick Boardz Surf Skate is seriously loose, and will spin without much effort, but isn't what I would call "locked in". James can spin 3's on his WalkerProject board without much trouble, but I don't think I would say it's "easy", he's very talented. Personally I like the Inland Surfer Orange Phlem as a good compromise. It spins pretty easy...not like the Surf Skate, but easy enough. If you really want to just spin like crazy, and think that in the future you may not care too much about the "locked in" feel, the Surf Skate is probably a better long-term choice, but initially may feel too loose. IMO, either of those two boards would serve you well.

Good luck and keep us posted on what board you choose.

Hey Ed, which Trick Boardz were you contemplating and why did the dealer talk you out of it? I'm guessing the pro shop only carried HL, LF or CWB?
Old     (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-17-2005, 8:15 AM Reply   
Thanks Jeff. I too like the more surf style. I was talking fast down the line to generate speed for aerials and hard turns. I'll have to check out the yellow loogie. I did get the Inland Surfer demo video the other day and the yellow loogie looked to be the board most geared toward the type of surfing I want to do.
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-17-2005, 12:47 PM Reply   
I guess when I say locked in I mean will let the wave push it along you know, a board that stays withthe wave longer? does that make sense? or am I just a lame wakesurfer lol
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-17-2005, 3:03 PM Reply   
Jeff, I started the season trying to surf on an old Thruster, knee board and a Trip 143. Neither of these had enough surface area to allow me to let go of the rope. I told my dealer that I was looking at the Trick Boardz and told him that they were wooden. He told me that I should get a good compression molded board. I donít know if he had any experience with the Trick Boardz products, I suspect not. I think he had a bad reaction to the materials Ė wood.


My boat dealer is getting out of the water sports equipment business, he says that he canít compete with the internet.

Growing up and living in land locked Ohio, itís pretty hard to get a chance to learn to surf. The Broadcast 5.6 made getting started wake surfing easy, man itís a lot of fun. My crew and I all surf the Broadcast now. Iím carving pretty good now but have yet to come close to a 3.

My Lightning makes a pretty good wake for regular footers. Iíd like to see a little more volume in my surf wake. I plan to replace my hard tanks with larger sacks and also throw at least one other sack in the crew area.

Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-18-2005, 6:26 AM Reply   
Hey Scott, for down the line speed the Loogy is a good choice. Also, look into Mike's offerings, James is the aerial king (or at least he likes to think so :-) ) Here he is just after turning 14. He rides one of Mike's boards.

Hey Daniel, you make sense. There are a few threads here on wakeworld that describe diagnosing problems with dropping the handle. Let me know if you want me to try and locate those for you. Personally, I like to treat the sport like a progression, starting with a BIGGER, yet slower board and then once THAT is mastered to move on to a smaller and more responsive board. I like the Shred Stixx, Shoreline Lakeboards and AWakesurf boards, as well as, the Broadcast, for getting a good foundation. James got his start on a Shred Stixx. Also, like Ed mentioned above, make sure you have an adequate wake. It doesn't need to be huge, but you have to have some.

Hey Ed, I know as folks progess, like you, they want and need a bigger wake to step up the riding. I had a custom sac made by the folks at Fat Sac - Bare Foot International...I think, theoretically, it holds 1300-1500 pounds. Makes a big difference in the wake and is completely hidden. When you get your wake dialed in, be sure to post a pic.

I posted a picture tutorial on spinning surface 3's on a surfstyle board over at, you might check that out to see if it helps.
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-19-2005, 9:49 PM Reply   

When I started this thread, my intention was to show my new boards that I am very excited about. My opinion of them being "fast" was simply comparing them to some of the other boards I have been on, like the Ride, Broadcast, Skimskate, etc. This is also based on only 3 days time on the new boards. I just felt the ride of the Phase 5 was faster than those, not necessarily the fastest boards out there. I do also have a Red Chubby, and have ridden Jessica Oswald's Shoreline Lakeboard several times. Since these are the only ones I have ridden, that is all I have to go by. I only started wakesurfing a few months ago. I realize there are many other boards out there, and I am willing to try any of them if I get the chance. Unfortunately I don't get the same opportunities as you and your son with the other boards.

I hope this post does not sound negative. That is not the way I intend it. You provide a vast amount of experience and information, and it is greatly appreciated. I am just excited about my new boards, and just wanted to show them off a bit, and give my thoughts on them so far.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-20-2005, 5:37 AM Reply   
No problem Buzz, I'm happy that you're excited about your new P5's. I think we could all use a shootout of the various boards, with unbiased results reported, by some recognized experts...perhaps a recommended skill level and style.

Enjoy the rides.
Old     (clubjoe)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-20-2005, 10:11 AM Reply   
Daniel--If you stop by Buzz's, somebody shoot me a PM...If you have room Buzz, I could bring my broadcast for comparison, and meet Daniel.

I'm sure he's not NEARLY as bad a person as you say he is, Buzz.

Old     (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-20-2005, 11:06 AM Reply   
Jeff, who is Mike? And where do I look into what he has available, prices, etc.? Thanks
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-20-2005, 11:44 AM Reply   
Hey Scott,

Mike Walker of

I get lost on his website, but at the bottom of the page referenced above there "should be" a retail price list.

Hope that helps.
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-21-2005, 2:49 AM Reply   

You bet. I will hook you and Dan up. You would make a cute couple!
Old     (clubjoe)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-21-2005, 4:33 PM Reply   
Old     (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       12-25-2005, 7:18 PM Reply   
Thanks to surfdad, I also ordered a large sack from barefoot international. It makes a huge difference to be able to just fill one sack and have it ready. So far, I'm just enjoying the broadcast for smooth floating in the pocket and some mild slashing. I hear so much of different boards that it makes me dizzy to thing of what my next board will be when I'm ready to spin and attempt aerials.

(Message edited by talltigeguy on December 25, 2005)
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-26-2005, 7:22 AM Reply   
Hey Tall, I saw your post that you purchased that sac from Barefoot International. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but can you tell me how you are filling it? Did your Tige have factory ballast that you spliced into or did you opt for the Tsunami pumps? That full length sac really makes a differnce in ease of filling, plus size of the wake doesn't it?
Old     (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       12-27-2005, 9:02 PM Reply   
I use the Tsunami and just fill it from the side of the boat. I timed it and it takes 10 minutes to get it full. I've only used it once, with just me and a driver. The wake was easily surfable. I'm eager to add a few people and also see what will happen with a little weight up front. I'm not finding many volunteers this time of year.

I have seriously considered doing a through hull pump - I like the Rival system - but have yet to do it. With the Rival system, I could turn it on at the dock and have it filled in the time it takes for the tow vehicle driver to get back and then to drive out past the marina buoys.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-28-2005, 8:13 AM Reply   
Hey Tall, I just decided to go the thru hull route. I tried a ballast puppy setup and it was pitifully slow compared to the Tsunami pump. However, I just get so tired of having to toss a pump overboard. Then, the last time we were out I wasnít paying attention and the pump body got into some debris and it fried, so I lost one of the pumps. Thankfully, I always have two onboard, one for just such an emergency. I went with the folks at, they have given me some great free advice (my original bag had a fill and drain port at the bottom Ė however, these guys told me that filling and draining from the top is better because as the water fills the bag, it takes more force at the bottom to pump against the increased resistance of the water. This is also why I chose the positive displacement type pump). They even developed alternative plumbing designs so that I could incorporate the old Ballast Puppy if I wanted. I like the idea of just flipping a switch rather than climbing all over, attaching the pump, tossing it overboard, undoing the pump and then stowing it afterwards.
Let me know if you decide to go to the thru hull route.
Old     (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-01-2006, 7:31 PM Reply   

Thanks for your thoughts again.

Shouldn't it empty faster if the emptying pump is on the bottom? The pressure in the bag would assist the pump to some degree.

I think if I went with a through hull type, I would just connect all of my bags to a manifold with multiple pumps. Do you only have a pump to your surf bag, or do you have other bags for wakeboarding? I love tinkering with the boat, but hate going to the hardware store...that's why I'm toying with the Rival system, so that they can send me everything and I hopefully don't have to make any extra trips to the store.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-02-2006, 6:43 AM Reply   
Hey Tall,

I think you're right that the inverse of fill/empty would be true. I think that I've never noticed the empty time requirement, but when everyone is fresh and ready to surf, I sure notice the extra time it takes to get started! :-)

Since we started surfing a few years ago we almost never wakeboard any more. The wake on my Tige with Taps at 8 is more than adequate for our abilities. I'll be 50 this year so I'm not trying inverted moves!!!!!!! :-)

I know what you mean about getting the whole package ready to install. There "used" to be company that sold a complete kit with installation instructions. I think it was called They used positive displacement pumps instead of the aerator style.

The folks at set me up with industrial sized pumps. The sheer size of that bag really needs some additional "help".
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-04-2006, 11:10 AM Reply   
Hey Tall, well I was wrong about the fill and empty differences. I heard from the folks at and they informed me the positive displacement pumps' output isn't affected by the pressure of the incoming water unless that pressure is SO HIGH that it overcomes the pump.

This is unlike bilge pumps, where incoming water pressure does impact the output.

So in my situation, where the pressure in the bag wouldn't overcome the pump, there won't be any difference in having the pump intake from the bag be at the top or the bottom. There is a slight performance INCREASE on filling, so it makes sense to have it on the top of the bag.

I just got my completed system and I have to tell's pretty much plug-n-play. Everything is labeled, and nicely set up. I just need to connect my hoses, and bolt down the system.


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