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Old    Andrew Brown (robie)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-29-2005, 11:26 AM Reply   
I would like everyone’s opinion on getting pop. After watching my video (higher education), they tell me to keep my progressive edge through the wake and straighten out just before I hit the wake. For some reason I can'/won't extend my legs all the way before I hit the wake.

But when I flatten out my board at the wake I extend my legs more and get a lot more pop. From what the video says this is bad. I know I loose some speed but if I get a lot more pop this way should I do it anyway or can someone give me a magic trick to make my legs lock while holding my edge.

Thanks for the help.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-29-2005, 11:46 AM Reply   
I've kind of been wondering the same thing. I've always heard to edge through the wake and stand tall at the wake, but the mechanics of it don't seem to work out. Actually, it sounds like you and I are confused about the same thing. I usually get decent pop by just flattening off and standing tall/locking knees. However, if I could figure out how to edge through the wake AND stand tall to generate the same kind of pop, I would.
Old    Andrew Brown (robie)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-29-2005, 11:57 AM Reply   
Yep, exact same issue. The worst part is I am getting OK pop without my legs straight. I can get my back roll around just fine with only factory weight. But when I flatten out it is just that much better.
Old    airwarrior04 (airwarrior04)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-29-2005, 1:00 PM Reply   
Do nto flatten out. use a progressive edge althe way through the wake gradually bend your knees and stand tall right at the wake. then pull handle to waist. hope this helps
Old    butt_slider            08-29-2005, 1:00 PM Reply   
well im not an expert and not very good but i had always htought that i was flattening off when really it was probably the boat the wake is like flat i mean its kinda big but i dotn know anyway i had my uncle take pictures and i noticed right at hte wake when i was standing tall that i actually was on edge i cant really show you a picture but really i was there was a spray probably up to my knees coming from underneath the board so maybe your guys problem is just you think your coming off edge i do like at the bottom of the wake but when i would stand tall i was on edge i dont know maybe i just have superhuman techniqe without knowign it. and maybe you guys like know from pictures i dont know
Old    Andrew Brown (robie)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-29-2005, 1:04 PM Reply   
Thanks Big,

I guess I just wanted to hear that it was just a bad idea to go to flattening out. My next step is to tie my knees so they are locked. jk. Oh well thanks for the help.
Old    Stephen Higgins (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-29-2005, 1:37 PM Reply   
When I stand tall at the wake I get the pop and get shot up, but I lose alot of my momentum going across the wake as it is all directed up. I haven't figured out how to take things up and over.
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       08-29-2005, 1:47 PM Reply   
Stephen. I have the same problem half of the time myself. Huge pop and lost distance. No one on my boat good enough to tell me what I'm doing wrong. Only thing I can figure is flattening out a little at the wake.
Old    airwarrior04 (airwarrior04)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-29-2005, 1:52 PM Reply   
Try Cutting out further .
Old    Andrew Brown (robie)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-29-2005, 2:22 PM Reply   
Randy and Stephen, cut out so you are almost even with the boat. The cut so your ass is almost in the water. These are the things I have down, when you strighten you legs you are on your own.
Old    wickedwake            08-29-2005, 3:05 PM Reply   
Azz almost in the water is not a good egding position. For just jumping the wake you should be leaning agaisnt the line, with your hips up (forward) and knees bent.
Old    Andrew Brown (robie)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-29-2005, 3:09 PM Reply   
I should have been more specific. I lean against the rope hard. Not bent sitting down. That was the bad form that I was using.
Old    rich (sandman59)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-29-2005, 3:16 PM Reply   
Big Wake Inc.

Your explanation is exactly what is confusing to people.

"use a progressive edge all the way through the wake gradually bend your knees and stand tall right at the wake"

You say to use a progessive all the way thru, but also say to stand tall right at the wake. The question remains...how to stand tall at the wake without flattening out the board.

Rich
Old    airwarrior04 (airwarrior04)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-29-2005, 3:19 PM Reply   
Ok sorry let me re phrase

cut all the way as faer out as you can con in with a progressive edge until right before the wake and then stand tall right at the wake. other than this i dont knwo how to explain.
Old    Robert Welther (roberto)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-29-2005, 4:39 PM Reply   
Hey, if this were easy we'd all be tired with it after the first pull. Getting the consistent pop is a technique that takes time on the water to develop. Just about anyone can clear the wake with enough speed and a decent ramp. But we all want the hang time. Getting air is all about the progressive edge, load and release line tension, body position, timing, and wake shape. Oh yeah, speed helps too. Pop is the sweet spot equivalent to smashing the 300 yard golf drive or Ace on a Tennis serve. The best description that I've come across as to the edge, load and release technique was on the DVD "The Book - Base Inverts". The guy basically does a Mexican backroll in the flats by just loading and releasing (no wake involved). It's a beautiful thing to watch a rider who's got this technique mastered and frustrating for the rest of us especially when these blessed riders fly by our $45k rigs being pulled behind some backwater, hill-billy, jury-rigged swamp boat that has at best an ankle high wake and they're throwing down scarecrows and Nuclear... whatevers. Damn I love this sport!
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-29-2005, 4:58 PM Reply   
You can edge-hard and stand-tall if you are leaning against the rope.

Flattening out is not the answer.

PETERC, have you got that picture of you cutting through the wake -- the best wake cut photo I have ever seen.
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-29-2005, 5:33 PM Reply   

quote:

Randy and Stephen, cut out so you are almost even with the boat. The cut so your ass is almost in the water. These are the things I have down, when you strighten you legs you are on your own.




dude you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Old    rich (sandman59)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-29-2005, 8:01 PM Reply   
Last week I rode behind an 2005 X2 and the owner of boat had me slow down my cut and stand tall at the start of the wake. I don't know if I flattened out the board, but I went extremely high with little effort. I tried the same technique behind my outboard's wake without any success. Behind my boat, it seems I need to concentrate more on edging through the wake instead of standing tall. Its hard to get the correct timing of standing tall on a small wake. It's something I need to get down plus I need to continue to enhance my wake
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-29-2005, 8:58 PM Reply   
The height you can get will limited by your wake, and it's shape. You can get a decent about of air off of a small wake, but it has to be thick and have a smooth steep shape. Getting a lot of air behind a wake specific boat will be easy. Another thing that will affect your air time is boat speed, and your rope.

I know that back in first days of wakeboarding, they got big air with out towers, or big wakes or good ropes, but majority of the time they rode behind a ski boat, with a little weight in it, so the wake was decent, and they're speed was constant and moderately fast, 22+mph.
Old    mike sasser (msasser)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-29-2005, 9:26 PM Reply   
the way i think about it is pushing down at the wake, instead of jumping, or standing tall. i think it helps balance wise. also, when you stand tall makes a big difference, if you stand tall too soon, you lose all your pop, and run right over the wake, with out running up it like a ramp, that may make a difference. also, progressive edge maybe be easeir to think about in two sections. instead of making it progressive all the way through, you could just make a decent cut at the wake, and then about 5 feet before you get there, cut realllly hard. same effect, just in two steps, so you dont have to think about it so much. hope this helps.
Old    buffallodan            08-29-2005, 9:45 PM Reply   
I think what will help me is the idea of leaning against the rope. The notion that standing tall implies a straight up and down stance is what is confusing. If one attempts to edge and stand straight up vertically it's difficult to keep an edge but by leaning back I can now see what I need to do, Thx ... Dan
I also think by timing your extension to coinside with the wakes peak that too allows one to hold their edge to the last...ok now I have the visual

(Message edited by buffallodan on August 29, 2005)
Old    Andrew Brown (robie)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-29-2005, 10:08 PM Reply   
Thanks Dogg,

I corrected that mistaken statement already.
Old    Casper (cas)      Join Date: Jul 2003       08-30-2005, 1:09 AM Reply   
Try to look at this clip. I think it looks like he flattens the board, but he gets a lot of air ???

http://www.wakeboarder.com/videos/progressivehsedge.mov
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-30-2005, 12:10 PM Reply   
casper, that it a great technical clip, he is cutting all the way up and through the wake( you can see the spray shooting forward all the way up the wake and he has the line loaded by leaning back. what you do not really "see" is that he has most of his weight on his back foot and this is where you can get your pop, by putting most of your weight on your back ft(or stomp your back ft down at the wake)it worked for me
Old    rich (sandman59)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-30-2005, 2:08 PM Reply   
I'm finding out that speed does make a big difference behind my boat. I ride at 23-24 mph behind mine which also makes my wake firmer. I ride at 22 behind a wakeboard boat. Another big difference for me is riding with and without a tower, I even noticed a difference between a extended pylon because they flex compared to the X2 tower that doesn't flex at all.
Old    Russell (the_love_muscle)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-30-2005, 4:20 PM Reply   
You want to stand tall at the top of the wake...not when you get to it, and do not let off your edge (unless doing trip flips). Also, the weighted foot depends on what trick your doing. A heelside front needs all back foot, but most need it even (some even front foot loaded). Your board will also make a huge difference in the amount of POP you feel. A tip for doing a progressive edge is keeping the handle close to your waist and your shoulders behind your hips. This will help keep the load on the rope

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