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Old     (nautyboy)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-11-2005, 2:50 AM Reply   
I notice some people ride really fast (28 MPH) and some people ride really slow (18 MPH). My questions is this, how important is boat speed? It seems like more speed may give you better pop due to the water being harder, but you also get worked a lot harder when you crash. On the other hand, you may not get worked as hard going slow, but may not get the pop you need to advance. Will you get better crashing softer and trying more tricks, or should you go bigger and take the punishment of higher speeds?
Old                08-11-2005, 8:28 AM Reply   
i find the happy medium
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       08-11-2005, 8:42 AM Reply   
Stop being a wuss and just charge the wake already

Nah, seriously though, remember that boat speed is related to a combination of your riding ability, how much you weight your boat and your rope length. If you're weighing your boat down to the max, you will need to drive faster to keep the wake clean. So if there's a beginner who's riding at a slower speed but you have the boat fully weighted down, you will probably need to dump some of the ballast so the wake is cleaner at a slower speed.

With regards to rope length, your speed should increase the longer your rope length gets and vice versa. I think the last time I was home, you were riding at 70-75 feet which should put you at about 23mph. HOWEVER, you have to remember that salt water is faster then fresh water so keep that in mind.

My rope length is 85 feet so on fresh water I ride somewhere between 26-27mph. On salt water, I ride more around 25-25.5mph.

Yes, the crashes are harder at a faster speed but as your skill level improves, the natural tendency is to lengthen out your rope a little more so it helps you get more float time in the air. Take your time and figure out what is best for your right now, then stay consistent with that set up. The more you change things the more it screws up your riding.

I don't recommend going over 80 feet usually, but it has worked for some of the guys I ride with and I personally like riding at 85 feet because it feels really good for me.

Aloha and congrats to you and Tanya for being voted into OWSC! I hope I get voted in in Oct.
Old     (nautyboy)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-11-2005, 10:51 AM Reply   

Dude, stop playing with ice skates and get on a wakeboard already!

Sorry, I had to give you some grief! Anyways, dude, I'm so all over the map with my setup. Sometimes I ride at 75 @ 23 mph (I think it's 75, my rope says 70, and I got a handle which I think is 5, is this right?). And other times I ride at like 70 @ 19mph. I do feel really slow at 19, but I was trying toeside front rolls and boy was it mellow on the crashes! Also, I didn't feel like I had to huck it as much to clear the other wake, so I figured it was a good setup for learning new inverts at my skill level.

So what, what's the real answer to my question. If I go slower and try a ton of tricks without getting beat-up too bad, isn't this a good thing? Or, should I go faster and bigger hoping the added air time will help me learn tricks faster and reduce the overall number of crashes. I don't want to be a wuss, but I want to take things slowly and try not to get hurt so I can keep working and paying for my new Nautique

Hey, in the old days, didn't they ride on really short lines and go really slow? I see some of that old school footage on Pre-Pop and Retrospect and they look like they are going way slow, with a short line, and no tower, but they are ripping! Back then the tricks weren't crazy large like they are now, but hell, I'd settle for a bag of some low amplitude inverts and spins anyday!
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       08-11-2005, 12:02 PM Reply   
The boats back then weren't designed to produce a huge wake like today so the slower the speed the bigger the wake was so the shorter the rope. They started to go to longer rope length when they started to add high poles and fat sacs. So don't get confused by what was done back then, even though it was amazing at what they could do.

Your SV 211 produces a big wake, so to maximize the size and get the most out of it, you need to drive a bit faster after you weigh it down correctly. The bigger wake will help you learn tricks easier. If you're riding at Koko Marina, you can't add weight so the boat speed will be a little slower and the rope length a little shorter.

This is what I would recommend for you.

-At Keehi Lagoon (boat fully weighted): 22.5-23mph at 75 feet

-At Koko Marina (no weight, just wake plate): 22-22.5mph at 70 feet

*If you're riding on my brother's Pro Air, with no weight, you will want to ride at 70 feet. Anything shorter and it will just rush you back to the wake. If it's weighted, I would still stay at 70 feet but maybe a little faster speed.

Yes, the goal is to build your confidence when learning new tricks but not at the cost of too many unecessary crashes. You can hurt just as bad going 19 as you can at 25, so remember to always execute proper technique as much as possible. This will help you more then this other stuff.

One last thing, it takes some time to get comfortable riding at a longer rope length and faster speed, so don't be impatient.

Let me know if you need anything else. Aloha
Old                08-11-2005, 1:24 PM Reply   
personally, for learning new tricks i like to ride at slower speeds and shorter rope. the falls are way more forgiving so you dont get murdered. i used to ride at 80ft 24mph, but i got stuck in being scared to try new tricks from getting beat up too much. so i shortened the rope to 60-65ft, 19-20mph. works glorious. some other people i know have started doing this as well and we have all learned around 4 new tricks within a month or two. i probably wont put my rope out further until my trick base is pretty built up. im happy with not getting destroyed on the water

also try riding with less ballast with the short rope and slow speeds, you will see that you are probably getting the same amount of air and saving gas. do that on your first set, then on your second set pump the ballast up and you will fly.
Old     (nautyboy)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-11-2005, 2:06 PM Reply   
Thanks for the input. I see where you are going with this topic. I have to say though, crashing at 25mph and crashing at 18mph are totally different, it's just physics (F = M X A). Do you think you might not have broken your femur if you were riding slower during that tantrum attempt? I don't know, I may be totally wrong, but it just seems that riding faster can be way more harmful than helpful to riders like me that are just trying to learn their first invert, especially at age 30 when things don't bend and flex like they used to

You are doing exactly what I was doing, it seemed to be just as you said, "glorious". I think that once I get a good foundation of tricks I can start to step-up the amplitude and speed.

I think I'll spend this weekend trying out different speed/length combos and see which one feels right to me.
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       08-11-2005, 10:01 PM Reply   
I broke my femur on a scarecrow riding at 21mph at a rope length of 65 feet. So to me, speed doesn't matter based on experience. I taken some of my worst crashes at slower speeds.

Injuries will occur. Remember that I blew out my knee last year on a TS backroll, a trick I've landed probably over 500 times since 1997. You can get hurt learning new tricks or on tricks that you have completely dialed. I think I've gotten hurt (at least to some point, some worst then others) on basically every trick I've learned.

One last reminder. I had a buddy dislocate his shoulder on a HS 180 going 19mph at 65 feet. It doesn't matter. You have the boat and wake to progress your riding so use it. I'm not telling you to ride at 26 mph at 85 feet. I honestly think your best combination would be what I stated in my previous post. Don't spend a whole lot of time trying different speeds, length, etc. It hurts you in the long run.
Old     (nautyboy)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-11-2005, 10:37 PM Reply   

Point well taken. Sometimes I forget that you coach olympic athletes

You're right dude, you can get hurt doing some pretty stupid stuff. I'm gonna just ride what feels comfortable, which is pretty much what you stated in your email. Dude, come to Hawaii and coach my lame ass already, I need help!

I gotta start hitting up your bro more, but he's so busy with fighting fires and selling product!
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       08-12-2005, 7:11 PM Reply   
Believe me, I wish I could come home right now. I need a break from work. Plus the water conditions have still been pretty bad here during the times I can ride.

I heard Keehi has been getting packed huh?

Have a good ride this weekend!


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