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Old    jasonr            07-09-2005, 5:35 PM Reply   
We are trying to surf behind an 04' Centurion Enzo, and we can't do it w/o the rope. How do we weight this thing?

Currently we've tried both ballasts full, surfing side ballast full, both ballasts full and a 500lb fat sac, and every position for the people in the boat. There is also 100lbs of steel(lead?) weight in the bow of the boat. Any help would be awesome. Thanks!

Also what board would work well for me? I'm 5'6 152 lbs. Thanks!
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-09-2005, 6:11 PM Reply   
Hey Jason,

You might want to check these two discussions:

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/238967.html?1120957659
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/237507.html?1120870432

Hope they help

Old    jasonr            07-09-2005, 9:18 PM Reply   
Thanks, I read those. Hopefully someone w/ an enzo chimes in.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-10-2005, 6:11 AM Reply   
Hey Jason, can you post a pic of your wake? That will REALLY help folks assist you.
Old    Larry Mann (niap101)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-10-2005, 10:35 AM Reply   
Jason,
You may also want to contact Centurion directly. The contact info from their website is:
http://www.centurionboats.com/contact.html
Old    jasonr            07-10-2005, 12:05 PM Reply   
Next time we go out I will get a pic. I also shot Centurion an email. Thanks!
Old    4sher            07-11-2005, 8:32 AM Reply   
Jason-

I had an 04 Enzo and now an 05. Done right, the Enzo will throw the best wake of any boat. Here is how I had mine set up:

Full ballast both sides
700lbs of lead in left side (port) rear locker
400lb fat sac on top of the lead
400lb fat sac on the floor but on the left side.

You can see pics of the wake we had on www.inlandsurfer.com

Now, that being said for the 05 boat, I had Fly High create a custom ballast bag that runs from the back of the boat all the way under the left side seating. I used the factory pumps and plumbing. It works amazing.

Good luck
Old    jasonr            07-11-2005, 1:01 PM Reply   
Thanks for the pics. One question though, what do you do when wakeboarding? Leave all that wait in the boat? We usually wakesurf and wakeboard on the same outing/day.
Old    jasonr            07-11-2005, 2:38 PM Reply   
Where do you get the lead for the boat? Will 700lbs damage the boat in any way?
Old    4sher            07-11-2005, 2:58 PM Reply   
I bought mine in Seattle from a company that sold steel, aluminum and lead. We have been using lead as ballast for years with no problems. You do need to be carefull, and check some of the other threads that talk about using lead vs water for ballast. Water really is the best way to go. I live on a lake so I can just leave the lead on my dock. Also, we JUST wake surf and never wakeboard.

Since wakesurfing needs weight in the back corner of the boat, I would suggets getting a hold of the guys at flyhigh (www.fatsac.com) and have them make you a custom ballsat bag that fills the port storage locker. It should weigh almost 800lbs. Fill it up when you want to surf and run the stock fallast for wake boarding.
Old    jasonr            07-12-2005, 1:34 PM Reply   
So if throw a fat sac in the locker, fat sac in the back next to the port seat, with both ballasts full, you think that would be enough?

Also is your platform underwater when you surf? Currently our platform is a few inches above the water.
Old    4sher            07-12-2005, 3:38 PM Reply   
It will be a good start. My swim step is under water on the port side and the rub rail is just above the water. Also, we ride between 9.3 and 9.8 on the prefect pass.
Old    jasonr            07-16-2005, 8:38 PM Reply   
Update:

We went out today with a new board (a hyperlite 4' 9"). We had both ballasts full, and a fat sac on the ground as close as possible to the port rear seats. there were only 3 people and a 60 lb kid in the boat, so we didn't have much weight. I can hit spot for a while where the rope becomes slack, but I can't seem to hold it. Definitley a huge improvement, I had it going for a while. We are also turning slightly to the left. When the boat is going straight I can't seem to ride it as long. I think we need more weight??
Old    4sher            07-18-2005, 10:43 AM Reply   
Did you have a sac in to locker too? It still sounds like you need more weight. How fast were you going?
Old    jasonr            07-19-2005, 10:47 PM Reply   
No sac in the locker. We went to buy one but noone in town had one. Next time out we should have an extra fat sac.

On Sunday we had everything full as mentioned before, but we moved the 120lb weights in the front of the boat to the rear. I could definitley hit the spot for a while and surf, but I would still lose it. I think we need even more weight. Hopefully that'll do the trick!
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-20-2005, 5:43 AM Reply   
Jason, dude, you don't need more weight. That's NOT the problem.
Old    4sher            07-20-2005, 9:58 AM Reply   
There are many variables that contribute to being able to wakesurf:

Boat speed
Weight in boat (both placement and total amount)
Board size
Board shape
Foot position
Rider weight distribution (pressure on the front or back foot)

All of these must be right to have a good experience. Owning an Enzo, and having wakesurfed for many years, I do know, if you want a wake like this you, you need more weight. And with a larger wake, you have more room to make mistakes before you loose the wake. With a small wake, your margin for error is very small.



Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-21-2005, 10:29 AM Reply   
Killer wake Mark. Is that Jeff's wife Debbie riding? The entire crew of Inland Surfer is amazing. I would like to clarify for folks that as Mark listed there are MANY factors that affect riding. In the instance this thread is focusing on, being able to DROP the ROPE and ONLY that, a huge massive wake isn't necessary. Focusing all of your attention on that one factor is probably detrimental to success. I guarantee you, Mark and I could free surf the wake as Jason has described it. We have worked out our board selection and ridden many an hour. As such, it's not a matter of a bigger wake, but of refining the riding position, including pumping like mad, and the board selection. For anyone that is struggling with dropping the rope, adequate ballast is only ONE factor and IMHO is one of the LEAST important factors when using a modern wakeboat. Again, that ONLY pertains to dropping the rope and freesurfing for the first time.
Old    4sher            07-21-2005, 10:49 AM Reply   
Yep, that's Debbie. She KILLS it. We are lucky to have access to such a great boat that throws an amazing wake. I agree if you are just trying to free surf and drop the rope, you don't need a lot of weight. I started wakesurfing 5 years ago with an '92 Mastercraft Prostar 205 with 2 fat sacs. The wake was pretty small, but we had plenty of fun. I believe one of the major contributors has to do with board selection. Some of the boards out there just aren't fast enough to allow you to ride a smaller wake. Or, the rider is too big for the board, ending up with the same result. (Just as a side note, we test all of our boards behind a Malibu Response ski boat with just the wedge down to make sure they are fast enough for small wakes.) However, in defense of the larger wake, we have found that with teaching first-timers the large wake makes the "sweet spot" much bigger and they don't have to worry so much about pumping and keeping up.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-21-2005, 11:15 AM Reply   
Hey Mark, yeah I remember everyone from Inland Surfer ripped at the world's last year. Point well taken on the size, but if you scan the threads virtually everyone struggling with dropping the rope is focusing on MORE BALLAST. So let me pose one simple question to you. A person is TRYING to drop the rope for the first time...riding a skim style board. Average build and weight. The wake is adequate if not huge. Would you agree that switching to a Green Room board would increase the likelihood of success? Most of the Inland Surfer boards would work fine, they have adequate bounancy, but the Green Room is a very stable easy to ride board. IMHO, it's hands down the single greatest factor for folks struggling with this one specific problem, the second being stance on the board.

Seldom, if ever, have I seen a situation where wake size was the only impediment to dropping the rope, yet it is the MOST discussed problem in these forums and sadly, most advice is add more weight. Again, IMHO, such advice is misguided.

On a different topic, when can we expect Inland Surfer to host a competition and demo day? You folks have the most extensive line of boards...I know I'd love to participate in a low key grassroots comp to see you folks in action.
Old    4sher            07-21-2005, 3:13 PM Reply   
Jeff, you make a very valid point. I would agree putting a rider on a larger board to learn is always helpful. Especially if there is no one in the boat with the experience to fine-tune the riders foot position, speed control and stance. With a larger faster board, the wake seems proportionally "stronger" and can support the rider (their weight is displaced over a larger area therefore allowing the board to ride higher in the water creating less drag). We have found the Green Room works great for larger riders, or as a learning board.

And, you are right, wake size alone is not the reason someone won't be able to ride. Even on my monster wake, if we don't help the beginner by telling them EXACTLY where to put their feet and show them how to move weight from their front to back foot, the learning curve is much harder. Just moving someone's feet closer to the wake-side edge of the board usually makes a huge difference. Also, keeping weight on the balls of your feet and driving your knees towards the wake seems to help stay in the pocket.

Good idea about a demo day/ friendly competition. Weve been kicking around doing one up here on Lake Sammamish. Ill keep you posted, although Im sure you guys would like to see one in CA. If you ever have a chance to ride the new Yellow Loogie, wed love your feedback. The board was completely designed from the ground up rather than an evolution of one of our other boards.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-21-2005, 4:24 PM Reply   
Mark, we're headed to Minnesota for a competition next week, so WA would be ever so much closer. We're fanatics. :-) As one of the bigger players in the sport, I know we'd all appreciate if Inland Surfer would help foster additional grassroots competitions AND with the potential to sample your product line. Give us an invite and we'll be there.
Old    4sher            07-21-2005, 4:30 PM Reply   
Glad to hear you guys are so into the sport! I think I may have just talked Jeff into doing something in your neck of the woods (Sacramento area). I'll keep you posted.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-21-2005, 4:45 PM Reply   
Fantastic! Kudos to you, Jeff and the entire crew at Inland Surfer.
Old    4sher            07-21-2005, 4:51 PM Reply   
Thanks and good luck in Minnesota. Hopefully it will be a good event.
Old    jasonr            07-21-2005, 5:02 PM Reply   
Thanks for the comments. I'm the most experience wakesurfer in the boat as far as dropping the rope goes (which means we are all very inexperienced). We're riding a hyperlite broadcast, and I'm 152lbs. Thanks for the tips, I'll move my feet even closer to the wake edge of the board, and I'll keep more weight on the balls of my feet. I feel that I have to lean forward alot to stay with the boat, but sometimes I come shooting in to the swim platform.

Thanks again! Hopefully we'll go out this weekend (not my boat!)

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