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Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-06-2005, 12:27 PM Reply   
all of the sports you mentioned have hard objects for an impact. Wakeboarding does not, unless you get hit with your board, or if you are on sliders.
Old    Anthony Racinelli (aracinelli)      Join Date: Oct 2004       07-06-2005, 1:09 PM Reply   
This is ridiculous. Everybodys going back and forth about there opinion. Is any body here a scientist. I'm not I just like wearing a helmet cause it has help me many times. Because I have worn them for years I speak from experience. My guess is most of you nay say'ers have never given helmets a real chance. And all you want is a good argument. I've ridden with and without. My early days of not using a helmet resulted in some pretty crappy injuries including a concussion. But since I've been wearing one I have'nt experienced any head, or ear injuries. Whiplash injuries still occur when my head gets whipped back but the impact on the back of my head seems almost none existent. So maybe the helmet displaces water better than you think. I'm 43 and I ride hard. I know what a hard fall is. My son is 15 and does 7 different mobes that he practices every day. How many hard falls do you think that he has experienced? The only real danger in my eyes with helmets is the bucketing(when the water grabs the inside of the helmet.) But this can be eliminated if the person wearing the helmet straps it on properly and snug. Also I have seen helmets crack by hitting the water, and the person comes out just fine. I wonder how bad it would have been without the helmet. Also to all you young bucks out there, I once was stubborn like you. But I got older and realized that at my age I needed a little more protection. My healing time is much longer than 20 year olds. When you get older you will have to live with the pain of all your past injuries, so take care of yourself now and stop being so stubborn.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2005, 6:14 PM Reply   
Nice Anthony. Isn't personnal experience so much better than theory and conjecture? My experience so far says I'm with Anthony. My son is happy wearing his also. I'm remaining cautiosly optamistic and will continue to evaluate over time with each experience. Maybe at the end of summer I'll be singing a different tune but for now... (05 Ace Wake. The padding is so much better than last years!)
Old    blumperkan            07-06-2005, 7:03 PM Reply   
not everyone that doesnt wear a helmet is stubborn. I wear helmets when i snow ski and kayak. I love safetey. however i've never heard of someones head cracking because of hitting the water like you claimed that helmet to do. I do wear a vest because i care about my body and safety. i do not wear a helmet because i am concerned about my safety. It is the DECELLERATION of your head and entire body that causes wakeboarding concussions. I find it ridiculous that everyone instantly equates helmets with safety when there are clearly downsides to wearing a helmet while wakeboarding such as bucketing and the increase in drag that makes the force of decelleration greater. Why is it that no one ever gets cuts or cracks their heads open wakeboarding but they still get concussions? hmmmmmmmm? do you think maybe because its from your head stopping so fast it makes your brain swell? if you said 'yes' you are correct and helmets will not help your head from slowing down at an incredible rate. in fact, they can only hurt.
Old    Mike (tige_n_it)      Join Date: Nov 2004       07-06-2005, 7:27 PM Reply   
What about the fact that when the water smacks the side of your head it hurts. Put the helmet on and the water smack the helmet not your head. No pain. Try it without water. Tell you friend to put the helmet on and smack him upside the head with a 2x4. Now take the helmet off and try smacking him again. Do I need to go on?
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2005, 7:30 PM Reply   
"Why is it that no one ever gets cuts or cracks their heads open wakeboarding but they still get concussions?" Boards coming off and hunting down their riders happens all the time no? Or how bout the scorpioned rider that gets whacked in the back of the head with the board still attatched? C'mon man, use a little common sense here.
Old    blumperkan            07-06-2005, 7:32 PM Reply   
if you hit me in the head with a 2X4 my head will bleed. if i hit my head on the water at 40mph, my head will not bleed. sorry mike, but your comparing apples and 2x4's.

helmets are good if your getting hit with 2x4's though, i'll give ya that.
Old    blumperkan            07-06-2005, 7:34 PM Reply   
btw, i'm not talking about boards and other SOLID objects hitting you in the head. IF ANYTHING SOLID IS GOING TO HIT YOUR HEAD, I WOULD CERTAINLY WEAR A HELMET. That is not my argument sparky.
Old    Mike (tige_n_it)      Join Date: Nov 2004       07-06-2005, 7:49 PM Reply   
I was hoping someone would be stupid enough to try my theory!
Old    Giddy Up (mike_t)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-06-2005, 7:52 PM Reply   
On Mon the 4th, my buddy did a back roll and came down and caught the front edge and did a face plant...the board came back over his body and popped him in the back of the head. By the time we swung around to pick him up there was blood all over and he was completly out of it. Put a 4" gash all the way to the skull. Took him to the ER and took 12 stitches. The doctor asked him if his board was black due to the fiberglass he was pulling out of his head...I'm getting a helmet this week for sure!
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2005, 8:03 PM Reply   
"IF ANYTHING SOLID IS GOING TO HIT YOUR HEAD, I WOULD CERTAINLY WEAR A HELMET. That is not my argument sparky."

Well then: the board is solid. It can hit your head. So for the sake of safety, why not wear a helmet? This reminds me of when I was younger I would argue that seat belts were'nt safe because if the car caught fire I might not be able to get out in time. All I'm saying is there's more reasons to wear one than not.
Old    Anthony Racinelli (aracinelli)      Join Date: Oct 2004       07-06-2005, 8:34 PM Reply   
OK now we're really getting into it. Look who's pushing the argument now. Another young kid taking things personal. That is not what this is about. Forget all your scientific theories (Dave) I wear a helmet cause it works for me and my family. We are all safe and no one in my group has been to a hospital for any concussions. My family has logged 1400 hrs. on our boat in four years while we have been wearing helmets. I've seen it all. Scorpions resulting in stiches, hitting debris and that person almost dieing, concussions, broken ear drums. Don't tell me about your theories and don't take everything so personal.
Old    blumperkan            07-06-2005, 8:52 PM Reply   
i'm not taking anything personally, in fact i'm making rational arguments wheras you are not addressing anything i'm saying and arguing that i am young. yes. i am younger than you. And i agree, if a board hits you in the head, i would want to have a helmet on. I've never been in such a situation. but if this happens to you alot, by all means wear a helmet. all the wakeboarding concussions i've witnessed have been with liquids.

just because you've had concussions without a helmet and none with a helmet does not mean that the helmet was the 'x' factor. Every rational thinker knows that CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.

I've never been in, nor seen a situation where the board has been close to hitting someone in the head. i consider myself lucky for that. my point is, and listen closely please, cause you havent addresed this once is that... "helmets dont help you in conventional wakeboard concussions where your head slows down so quickly to the point it causes damage." Helmets do bucket. They can give the water extra grabbing leverage to snap your neck and slow your body and head down when entering the water. this is not MY theory. this is a fact. From what i have seen/experienced, this is by far more frequent than a board flying from ones feet into ones head. maybe i'm just not flexible enough.
Old    Anthony Racinelli (aracinelli)      Join Date: Oct 2004       07-06-2005, 8:59 PM Reply   
Dave, You've seen someone snap there neck? Is that what you are implying. Cause I've actually seen someone get hit in the head, right behind the ear. I've also been hit in the head with my board. Thank God I was wearing a helmet.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       07-07-2005, 9:06 AM Reply   
"Isn't personnal experience so much better than theory and conjecture?"
yes and my personal experience says helmets work. anyone who says they dont isnt thinking correctly. hmm. a helmet wont save you on the worst of the worst impacts. however for all the other stuff you will be in far better shape if you have a helmet. and while water isnt as hard a concrete it still is fairly hard at 21 mph. i guess a glove isnt as hard as concrete either but look at ali.
Old    Jeff (smokedog2)      Join Date: Dec 2004       07-07-2005, 10:27 AM Reply   
Ordered three yesterday.

I'll try it first, I'm still worried about the bucket problem wrt neck injuries but no helmet head has cofirmed that this fear is founded in experience. The body stops faster than brain theory may be true after impact but the first contact with the water is the fastest deceleration and the foam in the helmet should help spread out the skull deceleration in those few important fractions of a second on contact.

SD2


Old    doug4powpow            07-07-2005, 12:05 PM Reply   
OK folks...

I started this thread so maybe it's only fitting that i attempt to end it. After catching a heel side edge yesterday and getting slammed, i woke up today with whip lash symptoms (front neck muscles sore as hell) but no concussion symptoms...i have had similiar falls with no helmet and had Big Ben in my head for a day. Pro Tech Ace saved the old knoggin...
Old    Jonathan Metherell (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-07-2005, 1:55 PM Reply   
What are peoples thoughts on mouthgaurds and their use to prevent concussions while wakeboarding? I don't feel the need for it, just like I don't the helmet. But if you are concussion prone and worried about it, as many people on this thread appear to be, maybe you should consider stuffing one of these in your mouth.
Old    jetgofish            07-07-2005, 2:00 PM Reply   
I think the choice to wear a helmet is mine and if I think it helps me then fine, if you don't think it helps then fine that is your opinion and I respect that. I've been holding off on asking this question and stepped away from the debate, but can you please explain to me how a mouth guard is going to help keep my brain from stopping suddenly and/or how it's going to help "prevent" me from getting a concussion when it's not my teeth/mouth that is smacking the water but my headmaybe I've had one to many concussion as it stands but this has left me dazed and confused


(Message edited by jetgofish on July 07, 2005)
Old    DJ (greenthumb)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-07-2005, 2:24 PM Reply   
It's official, this thread has now reached 100 posts. Who would have thought....not me because I have been whacked on the head too many times not wearing a helmet....
Old    Jonathan Metherell (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-07-2005, 3:39 PM Reply   
Mouthguards are worn in most contact sports. I have always heard that besides keeping the teeth in your mouth, these were mainly worn to prevent concussions. Maybe someone can confirm if I am out to lunch or not (please limit your comments to mouthgaurds). i think it has to do with your jaw banging together???

And I agree Teri. If you feel more comfortable with a helmet, wear one. I certainly wouldn't ask someone in my boat to take his/her helmet off.
Old    jetgofish            07-07-2005, 4:03 PM Reply   
Jonathan - here is your answer

Although many authors claim that mouthguards offer an effective means of preventing concussion and spinal injuries,the evidence for this statement is limited.

http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/35/2/81
Old    jetgofish            07-07-2005, 4:06 PM Reply   
"The ability of mouthguards to protect against head and spinal injuries in sport falls into the realm of "neuromythology" rather than hard science.Reading the original studies cited as evidence for this effect reveals anecdotal claims that can best be described as bizarre rather than reflecting established medical principles. It is unlikely that a mouthguard would offer effective protection against brain or spinal cord injury, and the limited published data are not compelling in this regard nor does it accord with the known pathophysiology of such injuries."

http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/35/2/81

Now, unless I plan on hitting my lower jaw directly on my knee, board, rails or debris it doesn't sound like a mouth guard is going to "prevent" a concussion

"In certain instances (direct blows to the mouth) a mouthguard may lessen the chance of serious injuries such as concussions,neck injuries, jaw fractures and brain hemorrhages by helping to avoid situations where the lower jaw gets jammed into the upper jaw."

(Message edited by jetgofish on July 07, 2005)
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       07-07-2005, 6:03 PM Reply   
i think the dude was just being an arse and not serious teri.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-07-2005, 6:47 PM Reply   
I have got an idea, you people that like helmets wear them, us people that don't like, don't wear them. I Don't wear one walking, driving a car, playing soccer, riding motorcycles, hunting, wakeboarding, or snowskiing. God, I love America, Freedom.
Old    Mike (tige_n_it)      Join Date: Nov 2004       07-07-2005, 6:50 PM Reply   
I wish I knew of the mouth guard idea last year when I was doing a backroll Michael Jordan style, crashed, and bit off my tongue! Now all I can do is be a post whore. Oh, and if anybody was curious is wasn't wearing my helmet.
Old    Anthony Racinelli (aracinelli)      Join Date: Oct 2004       07-10-2005, 5:32 PM Reply   
Jonathan, My son and I have worn mouth pieces in the past and I believe it does help for mouth injuries. But, mouthpieces make it a little tough to breath while you are riding. We started wearing them because of chipped teeth broken cap in my mouth. Kids kept losing them and so on. We stopped pushing the issue with the kids didn't wear them for a while and then my son knocked his two front teeth out and shattered the bone above his teeth. Dentist made it mandatory for him to wear one now. But he always loses them.
Old    Jeff (smokedog2)      Join Date: Dec 2004       07-10-2005, 7:55 PM Reply   
So how did he knock his teeth out?

SD2
Old    Anthony Racinelli (aracinelli)      Join Date: Oct 2004       07-10-2005, 10:53 PM Reply   
On a raley. Hit his mouth on his knee. Very ugly.
Old    Jonathan Metherell (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-11-2005, 11:57 AM Reply   
I wasn't being an ass (this time). I was a little curious about the mouthgaurd myth. We were always forced to wear them in this one rec hockey league, + a full face mask. They cited preventing concussions as the reason (to cheapen insurance). I just thought all of you people who were worried about concussions could have one more item to add to your safety toolbox.

Thanks for the link. It looks to me as it would have similar effectiveness to a helmet.
Old    aaron guy (wakeboarder123)      Join Date: May 2004       07-12-2005, 7:01 PM Reply   
i will lay it down plain and simple

do you were a seatbelt when driving a car

do you were a helmet whe snowboarding/biking/rollerblading/etc

if your answer is no to any one of these you are stupid.

ok lets take a simple physics class now

there is 3 objects ok.
1(car) objects is going 60mph
object 2(car) is going 60 mph
now object 3(you) is sitting inside object 1
object 1 and 2 collide
object 3 is not restrained in any way you tell me what happens.

yessss thats right the object 1 and 2 stop sudenly while object 3 is still going 60 mph
you fly right out the window and usualy die.
dont beleive me go try it and phone me and tell me what happens.

ok lesson # 2

same thing happens with a person and a helmut just object 1 is your skull
object 2 is the water
object 3 is your brain and you are goin usually a lot slower

and again dont beleive me?

run into a wall head first as fast as you can with a helmet then withought one and tell me which on hurt most


so to recap

were the muther f***kin hemlet
Old    Eh Brah (nautyboy)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-13-2005, 2:36 AM Reply   
What's a "hemlet"? aaron guy, I had to read your post about 3 times before I got your point. And...if water was substituted for object 2 in lesson #1, wouldn't it be going 0 mph? Using the simple physics equation to calculate force (F=M*A), lesson 2 is not equal to lesson 1 in terms of force (kinetic energy differences). Maybe you should read your posts and spell check them before posting them so they are not so confusing. Also, if you are going to post a simple lesson on physics, you probably should understand the simple physics problem thoroughly. But…good work, point well taken.

Anyways, I have not been following this thread for the last few days. I can't believe it is still going!! Good God, enough already. I think we beat this thing as much as humanly possible. Let's leave it up to the individuals to make their decisions.

P.S. I can't wait till the Wife & I get our new Pro-Tecs!
Old    boardonwater134            07-13-2005, 10:30 AM Reply   
helmets are the best. they never let you down, when you crash hard. ive been wearing one for 4 years, and, we are required to wear them when we compete.
Old    Jonathan Metherell (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-14-2005, 9:56 AM Reply   
Aaron - I wear a seatbelt and a helmet when I bike/snowboard. however if I was biking/snowboarding in water, I would leave my helmet at home, because it's water.

A friend of mine received a skull fracture and some brain damage while riding a bike on Monday this week. I pray she will get back to as close to 100% as she can. Helmets are important. But I can't help but point out that if she had fallen off the bike into the lake, instead of the pavement, she would have had no skull fracture or brain damage. Why do you helmet fanatics refuse to recognize the difference between water and cement?
Old    Buzz (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-14-2005, 10:15 AM Reply   
It comes down to common sense, and a personal choice. There are still the fools that don't wear seat belts. Just about every day you hear about a car crash where someone was "ejected" and are now dead. Not too tough to figure that one out.

I always wear seat belts, and helmets when I ride m/c's and bicycles. I have destroyed a many helmets in my time. I would be either dead, or in the drool and slobber ward by now if I had not had one on. I worked 10 years in the medical field, and 15 in law enforcement, and have seen way too many tragedies.

I recently bought a wakeboard helmet, and plan on getting use to it, and making it a regular thing. I really don't care if I look like a tool. I do that already.

I still have not seen one good argument for NOT wearing one. The whole "bucket" thing is lame. The benefits of wearing one far outweigh the odds that you are going to tweak your neck. I will take my chances. I remember when Tyler was injured hitting the debris. That really opened my eyes. I went to Shasta a few weeks ago, and was told there was a lot of debris in the water. I immediately thought of the pic of Tyler, and bought my helmet before I hit the water.

I know this thread has been going long enough. Bottom line - it's your choice to use common sense. Either you will, or you won't.

Evolution at it's finest.
Old    socalgrl79            07-14-2005, 10:18 AM Reply   
Buzz,

I don't understand anyone that doesn't wear a seat belt.. (*cough* BLAKE *cough*) Only a lunatic would be too lazy to put on a seat belt and possibly save their life.

-Amy
Old    Blake Hughes (blake_hughes)      Join Date: May 2004       07-14-2005, 10:30 AM Reply   
I am alive today, because I wasn't wearing my seatbelt! I'll admit, it was probably just luck, but once again... I'm still alive today.

-Blake
Old    socalgrl79            07-14-2005, 10:59 AM Reply   
What crap!
Stop lying to yourself and wear the damn seat belt!


-Amy
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-14-2005, 11:05 AM Reply   
it will save your life most of the time but it can also trap you inside the car.
As far as helmets and WB...you guys keep talking about it enough and I might have to go get one.
Old    jetgofish            07-14-2005, 11:15 AM Reply   
Jonathan - There is a difference between water and cement yes, however hitting water at 22 mph is much like hitting cement at 10mph on a bicycle.

I don't know, I've thrown out some technical stuff along with my story of getting a concussion, this was after suffering from moderate amnesia after getting in a car accident of which I didn't have my seatbelt on (if I did I'd be decapitated) but I do wear both my helmet and my seatbelt on a regular basis and feel that we all have a choice to proctect ourselves and our well being. So if you chose to wear a hemlet (like I do) then it's my choice and who the hell said I look like a tool? At least I'm a cute tool!! And that brings me to something else, what exactly does a tool look like and what is it, last I check I had a bunch of pretty shiney tools in my tool box that I use to fix stuff around the house, my car, etc .....

(Message edited by jetgofish on July 14, 2005)

(Message edited by jetgofish on July 14, 2005)
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-14-2005, 11:21 AM Reply   
Teri ~ sorry to inform you but concreate and cement are the same thing.Even if there was a slight differents,your head wouldn't know or I should say anybody's head wouldn't know,b\c it isn't soft or have cussion whatsoever..cement or concreate
Old    jetgofish            07-14-2005, 11:23 AM Reply   
I had a typo Ed ... I fixed my edit!

(Message edited by jetgofish on July 14, 2005)
Old    swass            07-14-2005, 11:26 AM Reply   
Actually, cement is an ingredient in concrete...but we digress.

Amy, I was wondering how you were gonna work Blake's name into a thread about helmets.
Old    socalgrl79            07-14-2005, 11:28 AM Reply   
Swass,

It was Buzz bringing up the seat belt thing. Sorry!

-Amy
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-14-2005, 11:30 AM Reply   
ok I thought I was losing my mind.
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-14-2005, 11:31 AM Reply   
Swass ~ don't worry she will find a way.
Old    jetgofish            07-14-2005, 11:31 AM Reply   
No see that would be me with amnesia and a history of 6 concussion! that's why I now and have been wearing my seatbelt and my helmet. I just don't see how some one can't protect their head!
Old    Jonathan Metherell (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-14-2005, 12:44 PM Reply   
Teri - I do agree with you on at least one point, you are cute (I just finally checked out your profile).

as far as your 10mph concrete equals 22mph water analogy goes, regardless of what speed you talk, I disagree. Here is my analogy. You spray me with my garden hose at a velocity of 22mph. Then hit me in the head with a bat (or slab of concrete) at a velocity of 10mph. The bat will hurt more and do more damage. With the garden hose, a helmet may stop my hair from getting wet, but that's it. With the bat, it will prevent serious injury.
Old    Jonathan Metherell (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-14-2005, 12:56 PM Reply   
Another analogy could be raining versus hailing. Car get dented versus cars get we. big difference. I can't imagine how hard it would have to rain to dent my car.
Old    jetgofish            07-14-2005, 1:14 PM Reply   
Jon - pretty darn hard ... but don't fotget your brain is soft and only protected by the skull .

And this entire time you though you were debating with a dude!
Old    Jonathan Metherell (jonm)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-14-2005, 2:00 PM Reply   
Actually I did. Oops. I was way off on that. I'll quit arguing now.
Old    jetgofish            07-14-2005, 2:02 PM Reply   
I'd say women are always right, but I'd like to keep this topic on WAKEBOARDING HELMETS i'm making this small and that big because I know some one like Big Ed will have a come back if I were to just say helmets!
Old    jws            07-14-2005, 8:36 PM Reply   
I wonder if anyone has consider increased drag from the helmet causing neck injuries? Worst injury I have had to date is a strained back from an invert gone wrong

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