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Old    starx3            03-17-2005, 6:25 PM Reply   
how good are monster towers. Any info or advice would help. i need a tower but i have a tight budget and it seems like it is the best for the price. other options will help
thanks
Old    walt            03-17-2005, 6:30 PM Reply   
IMHO Monster can't be beat for the $$$ And their service is the best out there . I've installed three Monster towers and it only takes about two to three hours.

I just ordered a monster mirror today.
Old    Daniel (agfan12)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-17-2005, 8:11 PM Reply   
increadible
Old    starx3            03-17-2005, 10:25 PM Reply   
i have an 87 mc 3 star. would i have to beef up the fiberglass to keep the gel coat from cracking. and i heard that you can only pull 1 at a time with this tower, is this true
Old    walt            03-18-2005, 3:37 AM Reply   
bdr(starx3),
I didn't need backing on the boats I worked on but I have no idea how thick the glass is on a MC so call Monster and ask them.
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-18-2005, 5:16 AM Reply   
mastercrafts typicilly have a little of 3/8" of fiberglass, more than enough for support. I measured every spot I drilled just to be sure. You can always add more fiberglass after you drill if you find it's a little thin.
Old    starx3            03-18-2005, 8:11 AM Reply   
thanks, now all i have to do is come up with a grand and i will have what i need.
Old    Dave (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-18-2005, 12:08 PM Reply   
They're solid ... great if you're on a budget.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-18-2005, 1:37 PM Reply   

Old    robertt            03-19-2005, 5:00 AM Reply   
What happened???? When did Monster Tower go to $1,195.00.

I had my wife order one friday while i was at work, and got an email from Paypal that $1,195.00 got charged. I see on the website that they are now that much. It must have just changed.

Man, I hope they can make this right. Thats a 20% increase!!!!!
Old    walt            03-19-2005, 5:52 AM Reply   
It looks like all their stuff went up. But it's still a deal if you ask me.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       03-19-2005, 6:35 AM Reply   
awww. i was thinking about ordering one.
Old    robertt            03-19-2005, 6:36 AM Reply   
Yea, all prices have to go up eventually. They will have to change their marketing....they cant say "best tower delivered to your door for under $1,000.00" anymore.

I emailed them. It turn out that I made my order the same day they changed prices. I confirmed what I wanted, then had my wife finish the transaction. Exspensive few hours.

Anyway, I asked them to either:

1. Just give me back the money, and I will buy elsewhere.

2. Throw in a rack. That would be paying full price as of a day ago.

We will see. I will keep you guys informed how their customer service is.

Either way, no big deal.

Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       03-19-2005, 8:20 AM Reply   
a warning would have been nice.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-19-2005, 8:57 AM Reply   
It's still a deal at $1200, my monstertower was great, probably added $2k to the boat's value.
Old    Nick V. (nvip9r)      Join Date: Feb 2004       03-19-2005, 5:19 PM Reply   
Prices went up...that sucks...but usually when prices rise don't you get something more out of them...looks like all the designs stayed the same...or did something change to make it that much more??? Sorry...was thinking of ordering one...now I need to save longer...lol
Old    Dan (don_stark)      Join Date: Oct 2004       03-19-2005, 5:31 PM Reply   
For another $80 you can have a custom fit titan series 1 that is a better tower shipped to your door for free. I have had both and I would go with Titan. IMO
Old    walt            03-19-2005, 5:43 PM Reply   
Nick, The cost of gas has gone up too but it's still the same gas...Whats up with that ? Do you see where I'm going with this ?
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-19-2005, 11:45 PM Reply   
Thanks for this post and I wanted to take a minute to cover what has lead to our price change.

First, I’m not the “sharpest shovel in the shed” but thankfully I know a lot of really smart people that have been a huge help along the way. They told me the Monster Tower should be priced at $1395 when I came to market in April, 2003 based on "market conditions". The Titan I was $1895 at the time in black or white and like $250 more for polished. Everything else that was decent was well over $2K just two years ago. The Titan I is a great product and if it had been priced as it is now, and not folded onto the windshield frame of the boat, I would have likely owned one and Monster Tower would have not existed. Please note their new price is for Black only and White or Polished are upgrades making it quite a bit more expensive.

I looked at the cost, overhead, margins, etc the same way I do at my other company (www.EasyAwn.com) and determined the price should have been a little over $1000 for the Monster Tower when we came to market. I felt keeping it three digits ($995) was a great thing to do so that’s what I set the price at.

We added the quick release that was a $25 option as standard. Most people ordered that so we started including in at no charge. We originally had zinc plated steel Heim joint which is typical and offered a stainless Heim joint option for $60, but decided to absorb that and include them with every tower since many of our international customers used their boats mostly in salt water.

Basically we held off way past when we first could justify a price change because I was quite attached to the ring of $995.

After adding the quick release, stainless Heim joints, additional hardware, and now the swivel tow point as standard with the tower since we came to market two years ago, it was time to cover the changes.

We have also been getting whacked hard with continued aluminum price increases along the way. (see http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/AL/M as raw aluminum cost had rocketed in the past two years. We also now have new cost items like legal fees, employees, a health plan and . . . Pretty soon it looks like were going to be a real company

We are trying really hard to keep delivering affordable towers and accessories and our new light bars at $350 each and chrome plated speakers at $395 a pair are continued efforts to provide affordable towers and accessories.
Old    Nick V. (nvip9r)      Join Date: Feb 2004       03-20-2005, 7:11 AM Reply   
Walt - yea I know everything must go up...of course except for my pay...guess I just like to dream...but doesn't mean I have to like it...

Old    fatboy1            03-20-2005, 7:31 AM Reply   
Bill and the crew at Monster do a great job and put quality products on the market. I can't wait for thier pro audio style tower speakers to hit the market.

Monster Tower is still by far the best deal on the market.
Old    wickedwake            03-20-2005, 1:01 PM Reply   
Man....I go to order my tower today and see a 200$ price increase..o well I have been saving up this long, might as well save/wait a little more...dam
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-20-2005, 4:03 PM Reply   
The price of metal has almost doubled.

It's still a great deal.Bill and his crew really take care of their customers.
Old    Kraig Hawkins (juice75)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-21-2005, 8:48 AM Reply   
Hey Monster Tower - thanks for the explanation. Like everyone else, I was pretty surprised when I heard about the increase, but once you explained why, it all makes sense now. I'm sure a lot of people will still moan and groan about the increase, but they'll get over it.

Keep up the good work, and hopefully you'll have my order early this summer! Gotta wait until the new house is purchased first.
Old    robertt            03-21-2005, 10:38 AM Reply   
I have my Monster Tower on order now. I sent an email Friday, and got a personal phone call on Saturday (their day off), and an email from the owner of the company. He explained everything, and after speaking with him I would not want to buy from anyone else. Period.

I looked around, and could not find a superior product (especially since I needed to lower it to get into my lift) anywhere for twice the money. It has nice lines, and most importantly to me I have not heard anyone say that it rattles.

Anyway, its refreshing to deal with a company that has not went the way of Walmart. A single order is still important to them.

Once I get it, I will get it installed and let you guys know how it goes.

Does anyone have any experience putting them on a runabout? A Chaparral? How thick is the fiberglass on a Chaparral?


Old    Nick V. (nvip9r)      Join Date: Feb 2004       03-21-2005, 3:48 PM Reply   
Well I put my order in...I agree with all of you...still a great deal and great individuals to work with...can't wait for the ice to melt and put it to the test...

They have my business from now on too...

Monster Tower, thanks for the explanation and email...
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-21-2005, 4:35 PM Reply   
bdr (starx3),

You should also take a look at the Titan Series I.

This tower is custom made for your boat, is 2 1/4 inch stainless steel construction, uses a progressive wishbone design (most rigid on the market), and collapses.

Price is $1,295 with free shipping and you get $130 in reward points that you can use to buy wakeboard racks or tower speakers.

It's worth comparing.

http://www.wakeside.com/page/W/PROD/titan_wakeboard_towers/series_i_titan_tower
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-21-2005, 4:39 PM Reply   
I forgot the images:


Titan Series I

Titan Series I - Custom Color
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-21-2005, 7:53 PM Reply   
The Titan I is a really well proven tower and the prices are close now for black towers. White is $150 more and polished is $500 more with the Titan which could be big if you did not want black.

The Titan Series II at http://www.wakeside.com/page/W/PROD/titan_wakeboard_towers/series_ii_titan_tower is a more direct comparison since each have curved legs front and rear.
Old    Mike O'Callaghan (greenpinky)      Join Date: Apr 2004       03-22-2005, 6:03 PM Reply   
The Titan board racks are pretty well equal with Monster now too.
Old    tomfooter            03-29-2005, 5:24 AM Reply   
Can you still fold down the Monster Tower while the accessories are still on it? (i.e. speakers, lights, racks)???
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-29-2005, 10:28 AM Reply   
Yes Tom you can fold the Monster down with the accessories on it.

Since my boat was a direct drive the speakers went on top of the tower so they didn't hit the motorbox. I liked them on top, lots of clearance inside the boat.
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-29-2005, 3:04 PM Reply   
The racks and mirror are on a quick release so if you do need to remove them it only takes a few seconds for each item to be removed. I take everything off so you can't even tell there is a tower on the boat when the cover is on, mostly for security to not advertise to the water thieves.
Old    Mike (board218)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-29-2005, 7:58 PM Reply   
Yes, it's understandable to me that everything eventually goes up but the way Monster Tower went about the price increase was not very business like and or professional. They should at least honor the advertised price, That being all the ads in the newest boating magazines, until the ads expire. I mean You say you've covered the cost for the past two years. What's wrong with waiting for your ads to expire and giving the customer base a little notice? That would have been the honorable and respectable thing to do. Chaulk up another lost customer because of it here!
Old    Mark Anderson (puckinshat)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-29-2005, 8:15 PM Reply   
I agree with mike. I think Monster would do better if they said they are going to increase their price as of May 1, or some specific date. Everyone that was thinking of buying a tower but was tenative on pulling the trigger would be pushed towards buying right away to save the $200. I would buy one in the next few days if I could still get it for $995. (I want a black one too, so the profit will still be there.) Or throw me a free rack.
Old    walt            03-29-2005, 8:25 PM Reply   
I don't know of any company that advertises that a price increase is on the way. I didn't buy my Monster mirror before their price increase so I had to pay a few more bucks but you don't hear me whining about it. I'm happy knowing that I got a quality product and paid less than I would of if I bought from another maker.

By the way Mike I find it funny that this is your first post.
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-29-2005, 8:33 PM Reply   
Mike & Mark,

In early January we were submitting ad materials for the April and May issue boating mags. In late Feb we got material and production price increases that were rather significant, and we made all the previously optional tower upgrades standard as well, making the actual increase $70/tower.

We sincerly try to do the best job we can at providing affordable towers and accessories but we are quite far from perfect.

We have always done the best job we can and if that's causing any problem for any fellow wakeboarder than please contact me directly.

My email is bill@monstertower.com and my cell is 678-895-8005.

Bill
Old    Mike (board218)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-29-2005, 8:45 PM Reply   
Geeeee, here we go again with the first post stuff! No Walt, I don't spend much time on the internet except when I'm doing some research on a product I'm about to buy. Since I'm researching a tower, this thread caught my eye and since I WAS GOING TO purchase a Monster Tower, thought I'd through my two cents in like you are. That's all! No harm in that, is there? Sorry I picked this to be my "FIRST POST"!
Old    Mark Anderson (puckinshat)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-29-2005, 8:51 PM Reply   
Alright Bill, it was worth a try. Now I guess i'm going to have to keep waiting until I pull the trigger. $200 is almost a months worth of food for a poor college student like me.
Old    walt            03-29-2005, 8:52 PM Reply   
(here we go again with the first post stuff) Did I miss something ?

BDR, Sorry to get off topic !
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-29-2005, 8:52 PM Reply   
First post under this screen name?LOL.

Relax dude.

Quik,gas just went up another nickle,call the refineries!

THE PRICE OF METAL HAS ALMOST DOUBLED,SO YOU FIGURE,THE RETAIL PRICES ARE PROBABLY GOING TO GO UP?
Old    Mike (board218)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-29-2005, 8:52 PM Reply   
Thanks for your response Bill. From all the research I've done on towers, I've read nothing but good about your products. Thus the reason I was going to purchase one of them. Just was my opinion that your price increase should have waited until your new ads were posted. That's all. Just my personal opinion which really means NOTHING to anyone but ME:-)
Old    zboomer            03-30-2005, 6:13 AM Reply   
All the bitching I see on the boards regarding Monster's price increase, and why no "warning" was given is comical.

I can see it now, we'll be soon seeing car commercials, "Buy the all new (insert car name here) NOW, because next month it goes up $500!"

lol.

Unless you're talking about computers, prices go up guys, deal. It's a concept called inflation.

I always thought the Monster was under-priced at $999 to be honest, compared to all the other towers out there. Nothing wrong with something being priced nicely, but it can't last forever or no profits will be made, company goes kaput.
Old    starx3            03-30-2005, 5:14 PM Reply   
thanx for all the imput. there is a boat dealership near me that has 3 for only $950 each. so my mind is made up and i hope i am as happy with monster as the rest.
Old    robertt            03-31-2005, 11:04 AM Reply   
I just got mine on my boat. It took under two hours, and is bomber solid.

I am a little worried about stressing my hull, I couldnt tell exactly how thick the fiberglass was, it is a chaparell, looks like 1/4" or more though. No way I could get more glass inside where the front mounted without taking the entire boat apart.

think it will be OK? I know the official answer, i am more looking for exsperience from those that did the same thing.

No tubing from it...I already know that.
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-31-2005, 12:05 PM Reply   
How big are the boys in your crew? j/k My gut feeling is that it would be fine. I've seen them mounted on other i/o's without any problems...including a guy on my lake with a boat way older than yours I'm sure - and he pulls a tube from it.

A thread titled "monster tower" and not one pic of Mandy and company...{sigh}.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-31-2005, 12:08 PM Reply   
I don't want this post to think I'm slamming Titan, because I like both Titan and Monster, but I have to mention something.

I remember a while back somebody asking about Big Air Pylons and Monster, and wakeside stepped in and said that because Titan was made of stainless steel, it was stiffer and better than Monster. I tried searching for the post, but couldn't find it.

Anyway, Monster rebutted by throwing out a bunch of terms that only engineering folk would understand (area moment of inertia, radius of gyration, etc.) and stated that these need to be compared as well when determining overall stiffness, not just the material. Basically, he very politely slammed you, to which you made no response. Is there a way to back up the stiffest on the market claim?

Bill, do you know the relative stiffness (force divided by deflection) for both products?

Again, not trying to slam either, because they both look like great products, and I honestly haven't decided which one I want to go with yet.
Old    robertt            03-31-2005, 1:29 PM Reply   
Friggin big guys I guess. I am 6'5" and 145lbs.

having that said, we will not pull tubes from it...and it is not a low end boat by any means. Also, where the tower is attached it is near curves so that should add some rigidity.

Any other thoughts?
Old    robertt            03-31-2005, 1:30 PM Reply   
ooops, I meant 245lbs
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-31-2005, 1:31 PM Reply   
The engineering mumbo-jumbo isn't the most important thing even though stainless steel is stronger than aluminum. The progressive wishbone design of the Titan is even more important than the stainless steel regarding the side to side stiffness.

It is a known fact that the Titan Series I and II are the absolute stiffest wakeboard towers on the market. Nothing compares. Even Bill at Monster agreed to that fact in prior posts. The Titan Series III found on 2005 Malibus is not nearly as stiff because of the design change.

However, one has to question whether being absolutely rigid makes a difference for most wakeboarders.

A rigid tower is most useful when you are hanging more than 50 pounds of tower speakers up top along with 4+ wakeboards. When you are in rough water, the rigid tower helps a lot with the heavy load and keeps the tower stiff under these conditions.

Whether or not it improves the rider's tricks is questionable since the tower sway of 1-3 inches on a boat that is pulled around more than that with an 80' line seems trivial to me - but some may disagree.

Mike
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-31-2005, 8:21 PM Reply   
rocketman - Titan and Monster Towers are stiffer than all factory towers with the traditional radar arch design. All work great for pulling a rider. Most work great loaded with boards, speakers, lights and specialty bling.

Huge apologies to Wakeside if I'be been anything but supportive of the job they are doing. And I will try to keep my geekness to myself in the future

Any structural engineers out there want to confirm Matt Anderson's FEA work that is at http://www.inboardtalk.com/tower/tower%20analysis/analysis.htm
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-31-2005, 10:14 PM Reply   
Bill, you weren't rude about it, so don't worry about that. I guess saying you "politely slammed him" was a little strong. Probably better to say that you had a few interesting questions and/or points.

I appreciate inputs from both of you. The thread that I mentioned before just kind of left me hanging is all.

Mike and Bill,

I was thinking about the 1-3 inches deflection that Mike mentioned, and I'm thinking that no deflection would be ideal (OK, I'm going to get mildly geeky here for a minute) in order to minimize the 1/2 * kx^2 term (lost energy), so all of the rider's pull goes into acceleration into the wake. I'm thinking on how deflection might help (maybe the "spring" releases energy at the appropriate time, and acclerates the rider), but I just look at it as a dampener, and just decreasing energy. Do you agree?
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-31-2005, 10:17 PM Reply   
OK, now that I look my last message once posted, I realize that the last half is more than "mildly geeky." I hope nobody reads it while driving or operating heavy machinery. It could be hazardous.
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-01-2005, 5:53 AM Reply   
R.Trask - lol - Yes, big guys. I would check with the shop guys at the dealer and see what they think as well. It might void your hull warranty if you have one, but the reward outweighs the risk in my mind. Chapparel is a quality product and I would like to believe that the hull is rigid enough to support the tower.

Again, I'm not an expert by any means just giving an opinion based on my experience.
Old    Stuey (stuey)      Join Date: Dec 2004       04-01-2005, 9:31 AM Reply   
Add another happy Monster customer to the list - I have never been so pleased with a purchase from an online company as I have with Monster Tower. Bill and I traded emails, he happily answered all my questions, gave me his number to call him with any questions... basically exceeded my customer service expectations. The tower itself is SOLID.. easy to install.. couldn't be happier. I also thought $995 shipped was a bit underpriced.. and even at $1200 it's a smoking deal for a quality product from a quality company. Every one of us here has probably spent and extra $100-200 a year on rising gas prices for the last 5 years.. inflation is life.
Old    craig (skier86)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-01-2005, 12:35 PM Reply   
David you are a nerd ,but so am I. I think that both towers are well designed.(wall thickness, urganomics, Deflection, looks) I did a calc. on the moment arm that the tower produces and it only produces .3 ksi.That is at the heim joint. The yeild strength for a Std. steel pipe is 35 ksi. Im not sure what it is for stainless steel. But I know that aluminum has about 1/3 capacity of mild steel. Either way the amount of deflection is almost negliable. Think of it a dampening. I figured out that there was only 25 psi distributed to the fiberglass if you analysied it using a 1' sq. of fiberglass. Either way both great products. Hey Bill does the tower come in any other colors besides polished or black.
Old    Psyclone (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       04-01-2005, 1:49 PM Reply   
Don't forget the Monster calendar. It's reuseable, just don't look at the dates.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-01-2005, 5:07 PM Reply   
Craig,

Per MIL-HDBK-5-
Stainless: yield = 26 ksi, ultimate = 72 ksi
6061-T6: yield = 35 ksi, ultimate = 42 ksi

So it's not an issue for either material.

Bill,

I tried opening that link that you posted for the FEA, and I can't read any of the values. Do you have the values?
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-01-2005, 11:43 PM Reply   
The stainless steel vs aluminum is not the only difference between the Monster and the Titan Series I or II. These factors may also be important considerations:

OEM manufacturer vs. aftermarket - Titan is OEM on Malibu and Calabria

Custom vs. universal - Titan is made custom made for each boat

Progressive wishbone design vs. arched swoop - we sell many of the Titan Series I and II towers to engineers because they are the most most rigid tower due to their design (even though I'm not sure it needs to be that rigid)

$1295 plus $130 reward points ($1165) vs. $1195 - The Titan Series I is actually a little lower cost than the Monster after the Monster price increase if you use your reward points toward other boat accessories or wake gear.

Look very closely at the mounts, tow spool, and welds. Titan utilizes CNC machined and polished aluminum billet for the mounts and tow spool.

The Titan Series I and II are available in hundreds of custom colors to match the boat.

Here is an image of the CNC machined and polished mounts:

Titan Series I mounts

Both towers are a great value and are plenty rigid. Some of the other factors may or may not be important for those in the market.

Mike
Old    Rich (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-02-2005, 6:45 AM Reply   
Oh my god....this has become a battle of engineers and a pissing match about towers. BD asked a simple question.

Question...how good are they?

Answer: Excellent, and Bill runs a solid company based on customer support and Hot chics. Can I get a "AMEN for twins"

Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       04-02-2005, 7:16 AM Reply   
Amen Brother!!!

Both are nice(towers I mean).
I've corresponded with both guys,and after that,Monster won easily.
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-02-2005, 5:37 PM Reply   
Wakeside and Titan only offer high-end boat accessories and great customer service.
For girls you need to go to Monster.

Rich you have never talked with me so I don't know who you are referring to when you say "I've corresponded with both guys..."

Here are some more closeups of the welds and mounts:


Titan Mount detail


Titan Weld closeup

Mike
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-04-2005, 10:36 AM Reply   
David - I have more numbers than I know what to do with but at this point I'm more impressed with how well the tower has done in the real world over the last two years than anything. With FEA you always have to make assumptions the the real world can say were not that good when you test the product.

Wakeside - I still don't understand your sales point about OEM vs Aftermarket? It's purely a business model choice. I dont want boat company business, been there - done that - did'nt like it and have not interest in supplying towers for boat companies. We are providing OEM parts (not towers or accy's) to other market companies as well as the Monster Tower is the OEM tower on Sportique boats in the UK. I guess we are an OEM tower company but it's through our UK distributor.
Old    Rich (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-04-2005, 10:50 AM Reply   
Wakeside....Focus on the question.....

How good it Monster.....

Think......Twins......hot chics.......towers.....




Pardon my pun, rack and tower looks like a good construct to me.

(Message edited by Rson on April 04, 2005)
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-04-2005, 11:27 AM Reply   
quality & performance aside, the only benefit i can see re OEM suppliers is that perceived value to some buyers may be a bit higher in resale. regardless, you can't go wrong with a Monster or a Titan.


quote:


Progressive wishbone design vs. arched swoop - we sell many of the Titan Series I and II towers to engineers because they are the most most rigid tower due to their design (even though I'm not sure it needs to be that rigid)



is Monster not a self-supporting wishbone truss design (like Titan)? i have always been under the impression is was.


quote:

Per MIL-HDBK-5-
Stainless: yield = 26 ksi, ultimate = 72 ksi
6061-T6: yield = 35 ksi, ultimate = 42 ksi



for what grade SS are those numbers? they look too low for 304, which is by far the most common in towers.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-04-2005, 11:58 AM Reply   
gotta add a couple more engineering nerd comments:

IMO, as far as material properties, tensile stress numbers are far less important to tower design than Young's modulus or "stiffness" of the material. this is a measure of how much deflection a certain force will produce in the matl. if you are anywhere near yield strength, the tower needs to be redesigned.

the modulus of 6061-T6 is about 1/3 that of 304 stainless. still, this can be totally offset by increasing wall thickness, changing geometry, etc.

the one problem aluminum has is fatigue. most steels will reach a fatigue limit of about half its original strength. aluminum doesn't have this limit; it just gets weaker & weaker until it breaks. this is why planes have mandatory replacement intervals on critical parts.
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-04-2005, 3:08 PM Reply   
Trace,

The primary benefit of an OEM manufacturer is that they predominantly make custom exact-fit towers versus universal adjustable towers. An OEM supplier also comes under tremendous scrutiny from the boat manufacturer regarding fit and finish.

Believe me, it would not be easy to land a Malibu OEM deal. A boat manufacturer would never use a universal tower. OEM tower companies also get business all winter long which helps them to remain financially stable. 100% aftermarket business would be very tough when you do 80% of your volume during 6 months and 20% during the other 6 months.

Monster is not a progressive wishbone design but it does resemble it. Think about triangulation. That is the primary reason that the Titan is more rigid than the Monster - even more than the material of the tubing.

In summary, the Titan Series I is 2 1/4" of stainless steel tubing with a progressive wishbone design, high-end CNC machined and polished mounts, incredible weld quality, the most rigid tower on the market, and an incredible bargain at $1295 considering that it is an exact-fit custom made tower for each boat.

Titan has informed me that in a few weeks, the lead time will come down to 7-10 days from order date to ship date. Not quite same day shipping, but incredible for a custom exact-fit tower made for a specific boat.

Mike
Old    walt            04-04-2005, 3:38 PM Reply   
I thought this was a Monster Tower thread ? High Jack !!!
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-04-2005, 3:45 PM Reply   
I made a simple suggestion to BDR on 3/21 that it would be worth comparing the Titan Series I now that the price is the same.
Old    Brit Rider (brit_rider)      Join Date: May 2004       04-04-2005, 4:46 PM Reply   
Hi,

I'd just like to butt in and make another point on OEM towers.

Monster is also the OEM choice for Fletcher boats and Picton Boats in the UK on top of Sportique. Admittedly, all three companies are small in relation to some of their American counterparts, none the less; that makes for 3 OEM buyers.

Those three brands are well known in the UK, all have been around for about 30 years, therefore I am confident all have good knowledge on what looks good and works well with their boats.

I know for a fact that Sportique previously used custom towers and were dissapointed. After changing to Monster Tower they have never fitted another brand tower in almost 2 years.

And, ok, this is getting petty but if they want a tower they get it next day via UPS express...

Just my 2 cents.

Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-04-2005, 8:29 PM Reply   
Mike,

i'm not really disagreeing with you, but note i did say "quality & performance aside..." i feel those are broad, subjective topics that could possibly be argued indefinitely, but the resale issue i mentioned is very specific to OEM towers vs not.

also, you say:
"The primary benefit of an OEM manufacturer is that they predominantly make custom exact-fit towers versus universal adjustable towers."
BDR's boat (the one this thread used to be about) is an 87 Tristar; OEM is not really a factor.

regardless, the Titan I/II is probably my favorite tower design. from an engineering standpoint IMO it is the best. several buds have them, and if i wasn't a rep at the time, there would be one on my Malibu. that is also a very nice weld, and i do prefer the looks of Titan's mounts.

it depends to some degree on how they're mounted, but if you look at a top (bird's eye) view of a Monster it looks to be a triangulated truss. not exactly a wishbone, and more rotating joints than a Titan, but still a truss.

i don't think it can really be disputed that Monster also has an excellent reputation in quality, performance, and service. again, you can't go wrong with either tower.

also on Monster's pricing - i have worked in depth on several tower designs & feasibility studies. considering the amount of fabrication, costs of doing business (especially liability insurance), and the recent HUGE increases in metal prices, both towers are a BARGAIN at $12-1300.

peace. :-)
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-04-2005, 8:49 PM Reply   
Trace,

All very good points. Both are a bargain at $1,200!

I have never questioned Monster's reputation. Bill works hard to satisfy every customer as do we.

Only reason I posted here is that sometimes boat owners who are new to this forum don't know that there is more than one great bargain out there. It all comes down to the details and style that are important to the individual buyer. Lot's of information can only help.

Mike
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-04-2005, 9:10 PM Reply   
Both towers have many happy owners. Some like their stainless over aluminum, some like ours folding back & down more than onto the windshield, some like their custom color options, some like our polished finish at no extra charge, some like thier OEM experience, some like our affordable accessories and the debate goes on . . . but we sure hope everybody enjoys our girls :-)



Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-04-2005, 9:21 PM Reply   
i gotta say the girls are a big selling point for me. :-)

i think everyone here really appreciates Mike's, Bill's, and others' insight and support of this site. i hope it's mutually beneficial. this level of insider involvement is something unique to this industry that i haven't seen much of elsewhere.

David Mason - how bout that stainless grade?
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-04-2005, 9:34 PM Reply   
Trace,

The values are for 301, but the reference kind of hints that the values can be used for 301 through 316. The values look low because MIL-HDBK-5 presents the lowest values that they've ever seen for a particular material. As such, the values are extremely conservative. It's in my rulebook at work that I have to use values from that reference.

It's interesting to note that while SS has a higher ultimate strength than 6061T6, it yield strength is lower. However, it is some of the toughest material out there.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-04-2005, 9:36 PM Reply   
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Bill that I like the new Monster Tower boat. The black and yellow really complement your logo.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-05-2005, 8:21 AM Reply   
cool. did you know MIL-HDBK-5 is obsolete for aircraft design? the FAA released their own, practically identical version last yr - AR-MMPDS.

here are numbers from my Ryerson catalog:

Al 6061-T6
yield 37 ksi
ultimate 42 ksi

SS304
yield 35 ksi
ultimate 85 ksi

the closer together the yield (matl permanently bends) & ultimate (matl breaks) values are together, the more brittle a material is.

SS is indeed a very tough material. it is also very difficult to machine due to high shear strength, and warps a LOT when welded due to its thermal properties.
Old    muji (mujibur)      Join Date: May 2002       04-05-2005, 2:33 PM Reply   
Monster - To me there seems to be only one solution at this point: Hire Mike, feed him the Monster Tower Kool Aid, let him pound the streets for Monster tower ;-)

Summer is coming guys; shine up your towers, no matter what brand, get your strechin and work out on. It will soon be time to ride like the dickens.

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