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Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-09-2005, 11:27 PM Reply   
There is no lock on the tongue, no chocks at any of the wheels, the cover is in the bow, sunblock and flag and other gear in the side pockets, JL speakers in the tower, mold and mildew all over the floors and upholstery... (and a stray cat when I took the pic, probably just clawing up the seats :-( )

I want to cry just seeing this. It has been out like this ALL winter in the exact same spot. (Although it does not snow here, winter is still really nasty- UC Davis, near Sacramento.) My only guess is that it was stolen, and then dropped off only to rot in this state of neglect and misery.

I know it would be wrong to "adopt" some of this stuff, but damn I am tempted, you have no idea. Even the whole boat! Just hook up and go, hehe. If I tell the police, they will only tow it and go to auction, but is there anyway to 'claim' or adopt an abandoned boat through the DMV? Probably just wishful thinking on my part.

Old     (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-10-2005, 5:15 AM Reply   
I would take it and put it on your porperty. They maybe tell the police that someone left it on your property. Possession is 9/10ths of the law anyway
Old     (wakeme884)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-10-2005, 6:54 AM Reply   
How sad...looks like it was a nice boat at one time. You should just take it home...if anyone asks, the boat just followed you home-like a stray cat
Old     (fullonsalesgrp)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-10-2005, 7:01 AM Reply   
I too have run into this problem. I found a Nautique super sport sitting in a church parking lot near my house. I watched it sit there for one whole summer and winter the whole time stopping every now and then to uggle the boat.
Then it disappeared. I talked to the reverend, and he said he thought it had been left there by a memeber but he was unsure so he left it. It to was trailerable, he said finally he called the city and they came an took it for the city auction. Now this was on private property so what I found out here in Michigan if property is left for more than 90 days the owner of the property has to make an attempt to contact the last registered owner (certified mail) then after 30 days he has the right to pition for ownership. I kick my self in the ass for not following up earlier do not wait.
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-10-2005, 7:12 AM Reply   
How sad is that? Grab the boat before someone else does. It could be a spouse or ex is hiding it from someone, just so they can't sell it. I saw this with an MG convertible once. After a year under a tree, what was a pristine car looked terrible.
Save the Centurion - I'll be a third.
Old     (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       03-10-2005, 7:15 AM Reply   
Am I missing something? If you call the police wouldn't they try to locate the registered owner who might be out there bummed because his boat was stolen?

I don't think the police are going to take the boat to auction without contacting the true owner and it has to be registered to someone.

Old     (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-10-2005, 7:38 AM Reply   
Even if it was stolen, insurance would have been paid out already so the police would auction it off as a recovered stolen vehicle. There are plenty of cars like that on ebay, which are recovered stolen property that are autcioned off. I would trailer it home, and try to contact the owner yourself. If you get no response in 30 days try to register it and get a new title for.
Old     (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       03-10-2005, 7:58 AM Reply   
I would assume the insurance company would auction it off as a recovered stolen vehicle.

On the other hand if a "stolen" boat is recovered on your property. Does not matter if it was a writeoff by the insurance company or not. You are in possesion of stolen property and could be charged for it. Better check the laws in your state real well. Hell that might pin you down for actually stealing the boat in the first place.

My grandfather bought a hunting rifle years ago from someone he thought was the lawfull owner. Later the guy got busted with a few other stolen items and the police tracked the rifle to my grandfather. It took some very smooth talking to get him out of that situation. It got very close too getting ugly for him. It is a crime to be in possesion of stolen property. They let him go because they could see he was not a criminal and they could tell he had no clue it was stolen when he bought it.

But in this case good luck.
Old     (jman)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-10-2005, 8:12 AM Reply   
if i found a wakeboard boat, sitting with its lonesome self, there is no way that i wouldn't try to find some way to keep. Strip it down, re-do all the covers, and turn it into a sweet ride. And, it would definitely cost a whole lot less.
Old     (depswa)      Join Date: Nov 2000       03-10-2005, 8:32 AM Reply   
I would try to find the owner. Ask them if they had a boat stolen. If they say yes, chances are their insurance paid them off and they bought a new boat. If that's the case, tell them you found it and that you'd like to buy it. I'm not sure how it works with recovered property that has been claimed and paid off by insurance, but I'd bet you could get a good deal? Or, maybe at the minimum they didn't buy a new boat, but they'll give you a nice reward? Good Karma either way. Let us know what happens.
Old     (millerda31)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-10-2005, 9:46 AM Reply   
Two things,

First, if you simply take it home you might be in for a surprise. In this state it is not required to show that someone had knowledge property was stolen to charge them with possession of stolen property. I only have to show that a, "reasonable" person would suspect that it was stolen.

Second. Might be worth a call to an attorney to inquire about abandoned property. However, I think you'd be out of luck since the boat is sitting on municipal property.

I know that some states still provide registration information for a fee. I don't know if California does or not. If you were able to determine an owner you could make an offer since it is apparent that the owner doesn't care much about it.

Whats the hull number, I can check and see if it's stolen. However, if it is I would be expected to report it to the local police.

Old     (jordyt123)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-10-2005, 10:00 AM Reply   
Put yourself in the boat owners shoes. Somewhere there is a guy wondering where the hell is his boat.CALL THE COPS
Old     (john)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-10-2005, 10:01 AM Reply   
Stop fantasizing. Call the cops.

(If the boat was stolen then it should be returned to its legal owner, which could be an insurance company if they made payment on a claim.)
Old     (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       03-10-2005, 10:06 AM Reply   
Big difference between a stolen and dumped $40K boat vrs property abondoned by owner! IE a broken refrigerator or something similar! LOL
Old     (bassmanjoshis)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-10-2005, 10:16 AM Reply   
the owner, if it was stolen would have probably collected insurance on it, and if not yet, then he/she will. Win win :-).
Old    walter            03-10-2005, 11:04 AM Reply   
The idea of taking someone else’s property because you have opportunity is wrong. We all have locks and insurance to protect ourselves from the “take it” guys. I am surprised by the response to this post and those who would admit in a public forum they would just take it.
Old     (bassmanjoshis)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-10-2005, 11:30 AM Reply   
Ya, I have to agree with Wally...the right thing to do would be to get ahold of the owner somehow...i'm sure you could look it up easily. I had my car stolen adn that's no fun...the boat would be even worse for me!
Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-10-2005, 11:32 AM Reply   
I have not done anything because I know how much it sucks to have gear stolen. I think I will try to contact the owner and see what the hell is going on. I'm not about to simply take this thing without any research of the consequences and all.

I'm not sure if the DMV can give out personal information to just any citizen, which may hinder my ability to contact the owner. Ultimately, I probably will just tell the pigs, but it'll be painful to watch such an opportunity just get towed away.

I've loved reading some of the ideas though. Especially about how the owner has probably been taken care of by the insurance (but of course I don't know if that has happaned or not) and the support for pursuing this. If it isn't stolen, the owner is too much of a jacka$$ to have such a boat.

I do not have as much experience with registering vehicles and other stuff as others on this board, so thanks for your input and ideas. So no trailering it yet, I'm off to get the liscense plate and CF #'s and see what I can dig up at the DMV and that other place I work at... oh yeah, the police station. (haha part-time student job thang)
Old     (millerda31)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-10-2005, 12:32 PM Reply   
"Ultimately, I probably will just tell the pigs, but it'll be painful to watch such an opportunity just get towed away."

Wonderful statement there....I had an inclination to maybe assist you until I read that.

Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living.

Nevermind....student at UC Davis....explains alot. Grow up.

(Message edited by Millerda31 on March 10, 2005)
Old     (fullonsalesgrp)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-10-2005, 12:34 PM Reply   
Well Kevin if your part time at the police station find a sympathetic officer (maybe one who rides or knows what the boat is for)and get him to do a search. Then if if it goes in your favor the boat can hopefully end up at your place good luck.
Old    pate            03-10-2005, 12:35 PM Reply   
Dont forget to find out when the auction is. You may still be able to pick it up for cheap???
Old     (nlitworld)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-10-2005, 3:37 PM Reply   
Yeah, even if the boat does go to the auction, odds are it will sell at 1/4 the price of what it would sell for normally... that is if there isn't an idiot trying to beat you out of the boat. What's really bad, but wouldn't happen in this case, is if the owner was the other bidder just trying to bump up the price even higher. I've heard of multiple cases of this happening with car auctions and the owner getting stuck with the car but having to pay thousands in licensing fees and taxes and all that stuff. When that happens I just smile, cause they get what they deserve.
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-10-2005, 3:48 PM Reply   
Wow... What started as a humorous post has really evolved.
David- your sense of humor resembles just about every police officer I know.
Old     (sylv2080)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-10-2005, 4:07 PM Reply   
David-that looks a hell of alot like the boat that is in your picture!!! I could not imagine any boat owner in their right mind that would mistreat their boat like that. I don't have a boat NEAR as nice as that and I would never ever think of treating mine like that. It's gotta be a stolen boat!!!! Question is.....Why haven't the cops taken care of it already??? How long has it been sitting there???? Since maybe November????? Totally crazy
Old     (aspenshayn)      Join Date: Apr 2004       03-10-2005, 4:22 PM Reply   
if you want to spend a few dollars call a PI and have him check plates for trailer and registration for the boat. it won't cost much at all and it will be confidential (as to not tip off the police that there is a stolen vehicle in the area).
good luck
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       03-10-2005, 7:07 PM Reply   
Brandon, I was thinking the exact same thing. Great looking boat and looks alot like the one in Davids Profile. Hmmmm...David, are you collecting some good insurance money? lol kidding
Old     (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-10-2005, 8:32 PM Reply   

How can you tell? In order to assess David's or Lisa's sense of humor, I think you'd first have to test it by presenting something humorous.

I'll be the first to admit that there are police out there who deserve the porcine designation but that statement was stupid. What does it mean? Does it mean that Kevin is going to seek out the worst police he can find, individuals who abuse power, harass minorities, scarf donuts, or whatever? No, I think he used pigs as an acronym for public servants who would do their best to reunite this abandoned boat with its rightful owner, be it an individual or an insurance company. The statement constitutes a hateful insult to all good police and makes me uneager to offer advice as well.
Old     (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-10-2005, 8:36 PM Reply   
Leave it,it's a Centerion.LOL.
Old    stillstandin            03-10-2005, 9:19 PM Reply   
Believe it or not, contrary to what the media would have you believe, the amount of "bad" officers out there is extremely small...And yes, it sucks to do the public a service, see all kinds of nasty things, put your life at risk for people who would rather spit on you then lend a hand...then have somebody who does not know any better call you a "pig"...Instead of insulting somebody's sense of humor...while your sleeping tonight, and your safe in you bed..maybe you should be thanking the people who are keeping you that way...
Old    jetpilotrider03            03-10-2005, 9:50 PM Reply   
damn, im calling my friends in davis right now! whats the address? this is a perfect broke college stunt
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       03-10-2005, 10:05 PM Reply   
So why do people call cops pigs? I never got that one.
Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-10-2005, 10:06 PM Reply   
It has been there long before November... and yeah, I honestly can't really think of anything else other than it being stolen and left there. I'm also curious as to why nobody has called it in yet. My current house for this year is only a few blocks away, and a housemate had his Nautique in front of our house (not even a neighbor's) for about a week until somebody called it in. The tires had chalk and a note on the trailer saying it would be towed in a certain number of days if left unmoved. I don't know how long this boat has been able to elude the tow truck...

David, please don't be bitter that much of the population does not like the people of your chosen occupation. And about that comment, sorry. I'll try to be more respectful. I do understand they put themselves at risk and protect the public. At home in Oakland, I have a higher respect for them because they face actual danger. Here in Davis, however, their function consists largely of harrassing students. There is an unending amount of police power abuse (as there may be in many college towns.)

I really don't want this to get into a whole "F... the Police" thing, I did not start this post as another boat war style thread, just looking for ideas and guidance for the right action. Thank you
Old     (ladythump)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-11-2005, 6:32 AM Reply   

Dont' be so afraid to call it in and take a chance that it might get towed away. It was never really yours to begin with and nothing in life is free.
Old     (millerda31)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-11-2005, 6:52 AM Reply   
"David, please don't be bitter that much of the population does not like the people of your chosen occupation."

Not to beat a dead horse, but, this statement is a misconception. The majority of the population doesn't use the word, "pig" to describe the police. Fact is, most are indifferent until they need the police. I didn't take the comment personally, I just thought it showed a lack of maturity. I've seen and been called it all in the seventeen years I've been on, "the job". Thanks to those of you who showed support.

Now, on to the topic at hand. Kevin, from the picture posted it appears that this boat is parked on the street bordering a rather large apartment complex. I'd be willing to bet that the boat belongs to a tennant who has no other option for storing it in the complex lot. I'd go to the manager's office and ask them. I bet they know who it belongs to.

Or, give me the hull number and I can post here whether or not it's stolen. Since I don't know where it is I couldn't assist in it's recovery. However, I would think that if it is stolen, morally you ought to inform the local police as to it's location.

P.S. It isn't my boat but it's close. This boat appears to be a year or two newer. Probably a 2002 Elite V-Drive.
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-11-2005, 6:56 AM Reply   

Once again, I interpret this post as a great example of wishful thinking and hey, who hasn't been there? As for over-analyzing the term "pig", I really do not see the point in any half philosophical statement comparing it to a larger defect in our society. I see the term "pig" being used as mere frustration at the fact that he will more than likely see the boat towed away once the police (said in very soft, polite tone) are contacted.
If you can't see the humor in that, well...

And Kevin, good luck. Like I said in my first post, I watched a great car slowly deteriorate because the husband refused to give any money to his ex and she didn't care about the car. In retrospect, I could have fronted $100 for the title - before it sat under the tree.
Worth a shot...
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-11-2005, 7:02 AM Reply   
Hey David - Way to help the guy out. We posted at the same time.
Happy Friday everyone.
Old     (antbug)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-11-2005, 8:11 AM Reply   
Ronia ~ you hit the nail on the head. It's not your's and if the jackass owner wants to treat his boat this way... let him. Call the cops and see if it's stolen. If not go from there.
Old     (liquid1)      Join Date: Oct 2004       03-11-2005, 8:56 AM Reply   
Im going to guess hat it will be reported as stolen, but my bet is that it was actually somene who dumped the boat then claimed it was stolen. If it truly was tolen, i dont think youd see tower speakers, board racks, tower, etc, anything that could be resold. He probably go upside down on payments, and rather than sell, did took the easy way out. Another thought is maybe the owner had to leave quickly, business, jail, war, etc and didnt have time to take care of getting it stored and covered. I just cant see anybody actually keeping a boat like this. Kepp us posted, i would like to know what you find out and what you decide to do. (unless you take it, then maybe you shouldnt tell anyone)
Old     (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-11-2005, 11:17 AM Reply   
eF the police...there always there when you don't need them and NOT when you do.So yes they are PIGS because they smell like s**t.I not sure how the police is where you guys live but here in SoCal in LA.....They suck a$$!
Not to offend the good one since two of my friends from school are cops but majority here in LA just wanna harrass people and stuff their faces with donuts!

As far as the boat....Report it and don't dream about somebody else's boat.....Go buy your own!
Old     (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-11-2005, 11:18 AM Reply   
I know....Reality is harsh sometimes.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-11-2005, 11:58 AM Reply   
"eF the police...there always there when you don't need them and NOT when you do.So yes they are PIGS because they smell like s**t.I not sure how the police is where you guys live but here in SoCal in LA.....They suck a$$!
Not to offend the good one since two of my friends from school are cops but majority here in LA just wanna harrass people and stuff their faces with donuts!"

You sound bright.
Old    r_dub            03-11-2005, 12:13 PM Reply   
eF the police comming straight outta wake world!
WWA (Wakeboarders with Attitudes)

Old     (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-11-2005, 1:03 PM Reply   
Ryan ~ Hahahahahaha LOL That's funny!! you know what's up!!!

Stanfield ~ You again??!Come on man,I didn't mean to offend you or any other good peace keeper I just meant their is alot more PIGS then their is POLICE OFFICERS at least here in LA.....In Texas??? DON'T BE A PIG BE PEACE KEEPER!!LOL
Old     (millerda31)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-11-2005, 1:19 PM Reply   
""eF the police...there always there when you don't need them and NOT when you do.So yes they are PIGS because they smell like s**t.I not sure how the police is where you guys live but here in SoCal in LA.....They suck a$$!"

It isn't difficult to understand the intelligence level of people with attitudes like yours...all I have to do is point out the obvious...

Say what you will about the police, but, remember this one fact that even you cannot change...


End of discussion.
Old     (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-11-2005, 1:28 PM Reply   
SWEET!!! I'm glad for you and all the other police that chicks dig.

One thing I can't understand is....obviously I wasn't talking about ALL police and or PIG just about certain ones and the %.Seems to me you guys fall into the PIG catagory.

End of discussion is when I say!!

End of discussion.
Old     (midwesty)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-11-2005, 4:21 PM Reply   
i think i am now dumber for having read this
Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-11-2005, 7:35 PM Reply   
Yes, good idea about asking the apartment manager since it is right next to it- can't hurt and could quickly figure things out.

Even if someone had to take off or leave the country quickly, I'd imagine there was enough time to at least have a friend properly secure the cover.

Yes I'm full of wishful thinking and fantasy, but a man needs dreams to keep on living. I don't need this boat as I already have an X-Star. But wouldn't it be fun to be 21 and have 2 wakeboard boats?

And yeah, if it was stolen, I would have thought the goodies would have been jacked before leaving it somewhere.

Plenty of things in life are free. To say nothing in life is free is silly.

Fatsac- thanks, I think you understood/got the tone I was writing in at the time and was out of frustration for the less favorable possible outcome more than anger (even though I typically do not like police but I don't want to get into that)

Thanks everyone for the input, and I'll keep postin with what else I can find out! Have an awesome wknd, the weather is gettin nice!
Old    edward            03-11-2005, 9:22 PM Reply   
dude i got some free stickers last week.
Old     (rvh3)      Join Date: Jul 2003       03-11-2005, 9:37 PM Reply   
By far the worst thread I have EVER read on ANY forum!
Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-12-2005, 3:01 AM Reply   
Well if you feel you are any dumber or this is all stupid, then I'm sorry for wasting your time. Haha, and glad you got some free stickers, I love gettin the free decals and stickers at the boat shows :-) k, g'nite yall.
Old     (speakersox)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-12-2005, 7:00 AM Reply   
What, no concern for the stray cat?
Old    jetpilotrider03            03-12-2005, 12:07 PM Reply   
heres why cops suck, last night going to a party, we got pulled over because our driver didn't turn on his "turn-indicator", and three people got mips.
we were right by the party, so the cop was just "doing his job" right?
-last i checked, no girls go for cops.
Old     (ghostrider_2)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-12-2005, 1:46 PM Reply   
I live near Davis and I cna tell you the police out there are hard asses, even the poeple who live there are tree huggers! I cant believe for a moment that boat hasnt been reported/ticketed or such for being there for a long period of time, My boat was if front of my house (Sacramento) for 3 hours and the police showed up!

DO what is right!
How who you teach your kids to handles something like this!

Could they come home and say dad well the bike was there all day/week and be neglected and so I took it to give it a good home?!

Report the boat........
Old    drewsky24            03-12-2005, 2:06 PM Reply   
yesterday i was riding my baby brothers bike on the sidewalk and some fat a$$ pig pulled me over and said "thats a traffic violation, i could write you a ticket for that", cops blow!
(no offense Dan)
Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-12-2005, 10:26 PM Reply   
Now for what you all have been waiting for...

After writing down the CF #'s, liscense plate #, and the number molded into the transom gelcoat, I went to the police station and had an officer run it all to see if it was stolen. He comes back out and his reply- it is not stolen! So I was amazed, and didn't quite know what to think.

I check the apartment complex management office, but it is closed on Sat & Sun. No luck for me there. I had a friend with me while I was checking all this stuff today, and he notices what looks like an old waterski bag up on an apartment balcony that is near the boat. We go up to see if this could lead to the owner. After knocking on a wrong door or two, we find the right apartment and ask if the boat was theirs.

They said yes it was their boat... also mentioning how they were thinking of cleaning it or something in a very unenthusiastic way. They, along with their apartment (from what we could see when the lady cracked open the door) did seem really odd, which both my friend and I agreed on. Oh well.

Summary- boat not stolen, just asinine owners :-( no free additional boat or gear for me, boo hoo (at least I did just get a wakeskate at the boat show in Sac 2 nites ago!:-) )

Kenny- I still don't know how any chalking and/or towing been never threatened upon the boat for so long. I should have asked the owners or something, but I think I was just in shock still from all the developments that were so far from what I thought would be the case.
Old    deltahoosier            03-13-2005, 12:23 AM Reply   

It should have not happened to such a fine citizen such as yourself....
Old     (wiltok)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-13-2005, 5:46 AM Reply   
What is a mip?
Old     (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-13-2005, 9:26 AM Reply   
Minor In Possession (of alcohol). They are no fun. Depends on the county about how bad the fine is, and if its charged as a misdemeanor or just an infraction. I see you have a Chico State e-mail. I got an MIP up there back in the day, got a lawyer, fought it for 2 years and won. I was not gonna lose my liscense for a year (which also would affect my insurance rate) and have a misdemeanor for an MIP... Good luck to your friends, party on!

Hope that clears things up. Let me know if your friends are gonna pursue the issue and need a lawyer.
Old    jetpilotrider03            03-13-2005, 1:12 PM Reply   
hey rod, i turned 21 last week, so haha, i didn't get in trouble, unlike the others among me....
Old     (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-20-2005, 8:10 AM Reply   
get the speakers at least
Old    ag4ever            03-20-2005, 7:11 PM Reply   
You would be surprised at how many people treat their boats like that. I would think WWers only make up 10% of the boating public, the others are just twoo weekenders a year. Memorial day an labor day. And that is what their boat looks like the rest of the year.

Also, if you did not break the law, you would not have been pulled over, and hence no mip, which was also breaking the law. So, if you are mad they did their job, just remember you need to do your job.

This whole thread is just a good case of young, dumb, and full of ***.
Old     (breadbutta)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-25-2005, 2:38 PM Reply   
What do you mean you FOUND it? What gives you any right to this boat. It was probably stolen from somebody and then abandon. I would get the registration numbers and go to the local police station. Tell them the story and ask them if the owner would sell it to you. It would probably be for cheap.

I found it, classic.........I hate theives.
Old    atom_ant            03-25-2005, 6:49 PM Reply   
Bruce, have you read any of the other posts or just the first one?

Old     (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       03-25-2005, 7:25 PM Reply   
I agree Austin.

Bruce- Have you read all the posts?!? If he was just looking to steal it, do you really think he would have posted this thread?!?!?
Old     (nlitworld)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-25-2005, 10:06 PM Reply   
you should have slapped that guy for being such a lazy bitch and letting such a great boat get the way it is.


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