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Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-25-2005, 7:47 AM Reply   
Our Lake is about to adopt the goofy Orange Flag rule. Has anyone seen a study of the effectiveness of these goofy flags that you have to fly when pulling a skier?


Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-25-2005, 8:31 AM Reply   
what flags?
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-25-2005, 8:35 AM Reply   
In many states you have to have a tiny orange flag displayed in your boat when you have a rope attached to the boat for pulling skiers/wakeboarders/tubes/etc
Old    whitechocolate            03-25-2005, 8:39 AM Reply   
Just get one of these and forgetabout it. LOL



http://svtsupercharged.com/gallery/album14/aaa
\newurl
www.hotbuddyinnovations.com

(Message edited by whitechocolate on March 25, 2005)
Old    Whit (whit)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-25-2005, 8:53 AM Reply   
Have to love the plethora of east coast lakes. Even if we had a flag rule--there would never be any other boats around to see you sporting the ultra sexy flag.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-25-2005, 9:38 AM Reply   
Wow commerce at work. Just goes to show there is always some one that will come up with a solution to any regulation no matter how lame!
Old    Renee V (litlone873)      Join Date: Jan 2005       03-25-2005, 10:45 AM Reply   
Here in California we DO have the orange flag law and if you have ever been in one of our waterways, it's a pretty good idea. It notifies other boaters that you have someone in the water.

There is some debate on whether it has to actually be HELD by someone or if it can be in a nifty little holder like the one above.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-25-2005, 11:05 AM Reply   
As always common sense prevails. I have been skiing in California for over 30 years and the flag rule has been here the whole time. I have also skied in Florida and Mexico where an observer is not even required. I would have to say that when used properly the orange flag is not a bad or stupid thing. By properly I mean flag up inplies that you have a skier/boarder/swimmer or rope in the water. As a courtesy the approaching driver raises his hand to acknowledge your flag. When the approaching driver realizes that the boat with the raised flag is on anchor with a boatload of drunks aboard the effectiveness begins to degrade. This is why I generally dislike flag holders. In narrow waterways like the delta it has probably saved a few accidents, maybe a few clothes line incidents resulting from running over a rope.

The flagholder that Grant sports (Hot Buddy Products) is a nice peice of hardware, you need to see/hear it operate to really appreciate it. It's the exception to my dislike of fixed flagholders. His driver operated raise/lower button may even make it more effective then an observer operated flag.
Old    Renee V (litlone873)      Join Date: Jan 2005       03-25-2005, 11:10 AM Reply   
We are actually thinking of getting one of those flag holders specifically for times when the boat is stopped and we are just swimming around. That way other boaters know we are in the water and someone doesn't have to be stuck "holding the flag".

We got a flag with the suction thingie on it, but finding a surface high enough and will make the flag stand upright is a bit difficult to do.
Old    Renee V (litlone873)      Join Date: Jan 2005       03-25-2005, 11:12 AM Reply   
Mike, do you know the actual law in California? Some people say the flag just has to be up, others say it has to be held by someone (forcing there to be another person in the boat).
Old    craig (skier86)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-25-2005, 11:19 AM Reply   
I think the flag rule is a great thing. Its nice, so some jerk doesn't run over your rope or possibly a skier in the water. I believe that the rule is 100 ft. away from the boat when the flag is up. I also think that there has to be an observer wathching the skier. At least all of these are my good rule of thumb.
Old    Jessica B (rebel_ma)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-25-2005, 11:30 AM Reply   
Renee - According to the The ABCs of California Boating Law 2003 (the most current book available when I was waiting for my son's driving test to be completed.) It states:
" When using a boat to tow a person on waterskis or an aquaplane, there must be in the boat, in addition to the operator, one other person who can observe the person being towed. The observer must be at least 12 years of age." This is in addition to the flag rule.
Old    footin_farley            03-25-2005, 11:36 AM Reply   
The misconception in CA is that you have to have the flag up in one of the situations that Mikeski mentioned skier/boarder/swimmer or rope in the water. The actual law says that a flag must be diplayed when there is a rope in the water. I was under the impression for about 28 of my 31 years waterskiing in CA that it was as Mikeski stated with regards to person in the water. As such I always displayed one when people were swimming and such. I actually had a Sherrif come up and warn me that I could be cited for false declaration of a hazard if I displayed my flag without a rope in the water. Pretty dumb if you ask me. My solution: I hang an extension section of rope from one of my cleats when my kids are swimming and display the flag. SCREW EM, they have nothing better to do than harrass families at play.
Old    Jessica B (rebel_ma)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-25-2005, 11:40 AM Reply   
You are correct Waterlover the only times the flag should be displayed according to the same book as above are:

-a downed skier
-a skier in the water preparing to ski
-a ski line extended from the vessel
-a ski in the water in the vicinity of the vessel
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-25-2005, 12:58 PM Reply   
I need links to studies on the subject What would be great would be a before and after the implementation study reflecting numbers of accidents before and after the implementation and the reason that the flags saved life and limb.

I can be convinced if the facts bear out that it is a GOOD thing.
The problem is the board decided in 5 minutes that hey Missouri has that rule it must be a good thing. They never looked into it or found any supporting studies.
They just said that sounds good we need to do something.

They used Missouri as there example this is the state that alows skiing with no observer and open containers in cars


This rule and a few others at our lake conflict with Ill Law. As you might think this casues all sorts of confusion. As you can see CA has had this law for almost 30 years and there is still confusion about what the law says. You can imagine how that would be if every lake had there own set of rules that conflict with state law
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-25-2005, 1:06 PM Reply   
You do have to have an observer in MO, and they did away with the open container law(that being ok). The flag law is pretty lame (on TRL anyway). There is not enough traffic except on busy weekends. I am sure it is a good idea on lake of the O. I have always used the reasoning that if someone is close enough to see the flag, then they are too close.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-25-2005, 1:09 PM Reply   
Mo has always had a law that says if you have a mirror in the boat you don't have to have an observer....They could have changed it but that was the law
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       03-25-2005, 1:28 PM Reply   
Orange flag rule is a good thing. Im suprised all lakes don;t do that. Saves lives among other things
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-25-2005, 1:30 PM Reply   
You can read that on page 11
http://www.boat-ed.com/abc/abc_specific_images/pdfs/mo_law.pdf

Either an observer or mirror
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-25-2005, 1:32 PM Reply   
Daniel Perry (poser007)

I know it sounds good but is there any real proof that it saves life/limb.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-25-2005, 1:56 PM Reply   
I thought you meant with no mirror it was OK. KS is the same way.
Daniel- I agree with the flag thing on busy lakes, narrow lakes, but I agree with Kevin, that their effectivness is questionable at best overall.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-25-2005, 4:38 PM Reply   
I have never seen a flag save a life.
Old    Lloyd Smith (nlitworld)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-25-2005, 6:30 PM Reply   
What we do, is bungee the orange flag to the top of our pylon, so that way we never have to deal with it. If there is someone riding at the time, then no big deal, but if they're in the water, you can see the flag and know it's purpose.

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