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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through May 04, 2005

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Old    Ryan B. (rrbooker)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-06-2005, 12:12 PM Reply   
I just need to know if the JL 300/4 amp is good enough for the skylon deafcon IV speakers. I know bridged the amp is a true 150 watts rms, thats if the speakers have a built in crossover. I don't want to buy another amp, any help on a speaker set up would help. I had 4 wakedesign speakers up there but i'm selling and going with something different.
Old    Buzz (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-06-2005, 5:08 PM Reply   
If I were you I would try to put mote to them. I also assume you are talking about the "reference" series with Image Dynamics. My stereo guy called ID and they said if you could get 500 watts to them, it would be great. I have a Zapco 750 to mine, putting about 375 or so to each side. Yea, they smoke!
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-06-2005, 7:02 PM Reply   
wont work.....there are very few amps that will operate into a 2 ohm load when bridged (stereo or mono)

the jl 300/4 "bridged" will put out 150 wpc into a "3-8 ohm" load..

the skylons are 2 ohm load... non of the jl's have enough into a 2 ohm load wether bridged or stereo..

kinda of a bummer.. i really like jl's, they are a great amp !!!

(Message edited by clubmyke on March 06, 2005)
Old    JCrave (s4inor)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-06-2005, 10:22 PM Reply   
The ID horns are quite effecient, so while 150W @ 2 ohms is not ideal, it will still provide adequate output (the Reference IVs are rated at 200W RMS).

Get the speakers, run the JL amp for the time being, and when money allows, upgrade to a more powerful amp (350-400W RMS @ 2 ohms) and use your 300/4 for the boat speakers.
Old    Ryan B. (rrbooker)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-07-2005, 3:19 AM Reply   
I was also thinking about just getting some good 6x9s 4 total to put up there. What would you guys suggest. For both speakers and cans? I don't want to spend to much more on the system, meaning buying another amp. I don't plain on keeping the boat for more than a couple more yrs.
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-07-2005, 8:31 AM Reply   
ryan,

ignore jasons suggestion(please dont take offense)please dont run that 300/4 briged into a 2 ohm load...you will burn up the amp within hours... and what is even worse, you could damage the speakers..

the jl's have a sosphisicated protection (notice one of the leds on top of the amp is for low impedence, they are designed for specific loads ( unbridged it will do a 2 ohm load no problem, but bridged - 3 to 8 ohms. call jl or check online for the owners manual)

i went through the same thing with my 300/4's...there are not alot of amps that will do a 2 ohm load when bridged..

(Message edited by clubmyke on March 07, 2005)
Old    JCrave (s4inor)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-07-2005, 8:40 AM Reply   
Wow, thanks for the correction Mike!

Ryan, there is absolutely no way 4 6x9's will keep up with the reference IVs. In both sound quality and volume they are completely different beasts.

That said, if you do end up going the 6x9 route, be sure to check out the latest price on the B69. It's a great deal on what is one of the best looking 6x9 setups.

http://www.wakeside.com/page/W/PROD/boss_wakeboard_tower_speakers/boss_b69_speakers
Old    Ryan B. (rrbooker)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-07-2005, 1:46 PM Reply   
thanks for the help guys I think i'm going to go with the 6x9s. Are the speakers that come in the boss b69s any good?
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       03-07-2005, 2:00 PM Reply   
Ryan, I like the way 6x9 set-ups sound. There are a few companies that produce enclosures for a 4 speakers setup. IMO 4- 6x9's properly powered will compete w/ one NVS 1010, in volume for sure but probably not distance.
Old    Paul (gherk)      Join Date: Aug 2001       03-08-2005, 9:17 AM Reply   
A buddy of mine is getting the Skylon Deafcon V speakers and I'm wondering how he should power them. He has a PPI 4125 amp and is wanting to bridge two and two channels together to power it but I'm not so sure that's going to work.

Since there is so much talk about JL in this thread, what JL amps would you use to power the Deafcon V since it is at 2 ohms? Would it be ok to use two 250/1? Or would that be a bad idea since it is a subwoofer amp?
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-08-2005, 9:34 AM Reply   
the frequency response isnt there for the jl 250/1.. they ar only good out to 500 hz..

in light of the skylon reference.. here are a couple "reservations" with the skylon reference v's...

-2 ohm amp situation (should be a choice between 2 and 4 ohm)
-id v.3 drivers (not a bad driver, but no where a idq or chameleon)

the nvs addiction are worth looking at:
- easier to drive
- speaker component "may" be better

duane & wakeside:
what are the chances of doing a side to side comparison in so-cal..a sound-off? (m20 has the reference v's, they are the local nautique dealer)

it would be a total review- loundess, total sound quality (high, mids, lows), fit & finish, with a reference system...heck, i'll even break out the classe cam monoblock 350's and use it with the eclipse deck !!!!!!

(Message edited by clubmyke on March 08, 2005)
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-08-2005, 9:36 AM Reply   
paul,

if i remember the ppi 4125 is only good into a 4 ohm "bridged" load..you may want to confirm..
Old    Paul (gherk)      Join Date: Aug 2001       03-08-2005, 9:50 AM Reply   
clubmyke,

My friend Chad is going to be at WSSR with his Deafcon V so you or anyone else can compare. I know he talked to the people at wakeside to see if they wanted to go. But I don't think we can actually have a true comparison unless the speakers are hooked up to the same equipment.
Old    Chad Miranda (forwaken)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-08-2005, 9:58 AM Reply   
Clubmyke, it is actually me that ended up going with the new skylon V. I know, I know, after all that talk, I ended up chickening out and jut going with something simple up on the tower. Thanks for your help. I will be at the WSSR and I know JRod will as well with his 1010's. Maybe me and him can run side by side and do a rough comparison so people will finally get a definite answer on these. I am not looking to be the "Best," but I am just as curious as everyone else with these. Thanks for all you previous help with the crossovers and stuff even though I won't need them now. Speakers should be here any day now.

BTW- The amp is rated to a 2 ohm brided load at 500 per channel. I am going to give directed a call first.
Old    Chad Miranda (forwaken)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-08-2005, 10:01 AM Reply   
you beat me to it paul.....
Old    Chad Miranda (forwaken)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-08-2005, 10:41 AM Reply   
I just got off the phone and that amp will not run "bridged" into a two ohm load. It will however run stereo into a two ohm and still put 250 watts to the speakers, which is what it recomends. I'll see when I get it hooked up.
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-08-2005, 11:18 AM Reply   
Chad,
Wow, I couldn't read down the thread fast enough to see what conclusion you ended up with. I was just hoping I didn't find that you "Let the smoke out" of your 4125.
The 4125 is a great amp...for the NVS Entity Series. If you want to consider trading the speakers instead of the amp, let me know Just kidding.
Just glad you didn't run it bridged at 2 ohms.
As far as the comparrison goes, it will happen....before June I'm sure.
D out
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       03-08-2005, 12:02 PM Reply   
Anyone got any idea what the "odds" will be on this contest? Who's the favorite????
Old    Chad Miranda (forwaken)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-08-2005, 12:37 PM Reply   
Hey Duane,
Thanks for the concern and yeah, I am glad I called. I understand that the defcon's are little wierd in thier ohm load so I wanted to make sure what will and will not work with them. I may be in the market now for a PCX 2200 which I was told by PPI will run at 2 ohms all day long in stereo and put about 400 watts to them. WSSR is actually in April, are you going to make it out there? It be nice to meet the man behind all the craze and thanks for being the one to push the envelope.

Adam- From all the research I have done, it depends on what you are going to say is the deciding factor. For pure loudness, it may sound like Duane has the odds on that one. But for sound to the rider and in the boat overall the skylon's may have the nod. Then again I am no expert and it doesn't seem like there are too many Defcon V owner's yet. I am hoping to have mine in this weekend on the 4125 for now. It's all relative though, I mean they are both HCLD systems and they both have a butload of R&D in them by respected people. If the sound quality matter's that much to someone that they are going to nitpick between the two then they are probably paying too much attention to the stereo and not the riding.
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-08-2005, 1:07 PM Reply   
Chad,
Nicely said. I'm sure anyone getting one of either sets will be happy.
If you do want to give up the 4125 let me know as they are getting harder and harder to find....they don't make them anymore...thanks to Directed E Inc. (I don't happen to prefer the replacement product.)Also, if you'd like to consider a Zapco 750.2 (375 RMS x 2 at 2 ohms) send me an email. Some of the characteristics match up a bit better IMO.
As far as WSSR, I haven't made any plans one way or another but it would be fun for sure. (thanks for the props, it's a lot of work...but a ton of fun) Some of the testimonials I hear are nearly unbelievable.
D out
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-08-2005, 5:18 PM Reply   
i totally agree..it has to be hooked up to same equipment...

btw, a fair comparison would be Entity 808 and the skylon reference 5 (not the 1010's).

i have seen the skylon reference V's at m20...the closest nvs would be big ed's 1010's..
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-08-2005, 11:44 PM Reply   
clubmyke,
can you reiterate for me? I was following your last post just fine til the last sentence.
D out
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-09-2005, 12:02 AM Reply   
duane, not a problem..sorry for being clear.

big ed's x-2 is the only boat that i know of that has the nvs tower speakers...
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-09-2005, 7:21 AM Reply   
sorry, my near asleep mind was still on closest "comparrison" from the previous sentence, not "closest" locale.
D out
Old    Wakeside.com (wakeside1)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-11-2005, 12:47 AM Reply   
Clubmyke,

I think it is fair comparison between the Skylon Deafcon V Reference and the NVS 1010 even though the 1010's use a 10" mid-bass driver.

The NVS 1010 should put out slightly more SPL at 80 feet due to 2" voice coil and 10" cones. It will be more efficient and move more air.

The Skylon Deafcon V Reference purposely used a 1 1/2" voice coil and 8" cone to improve on the low end frequency response between 50 and 150 Hz. You may not hear that well at 80 feet but they should put out better bass near the boat.

That is what the sound-off will show us. I totally expect the NVS 1010 to be louder and the Skylon V to have better sound quality at the low frequencies. Poly cones are nice too in a marine environment.

Mike
Old    Keith Sanders (keithro)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-18-2005, 3:18 PM Reply   
Ryan this may be a little late but here is the answer to your original question
(I just need to know if the JL 300/4 amp is good enough for the skylon deafcon IV speakers)+

Yes, absolutely, but don't bridge the amp. The efficiency of the mid-bass driver and horn on the Deafcon IV will allow it to run on a good clean 75 Watts per channel as long as it's two ohm stable. It won't be optimum (best would be 175-200 W RMS) but they will still sound good.

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