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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through March 15, 2005

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Old    John Klein (jklein)      Join Date: May 2001       01-19-2005, 12:01 PM Reply   
I would appreciate any feedback on the design I've chosen from the audiophiles.

pic
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       01-19-2005, 12:44 PM Reply   
nice, you need another set of rca's to plug in an ipod

other than that it looks real good.

why the diff batteries?
Old    trip            01-19-2005, 1:33 PM Reply   
I put 3 PAC LC-1's in my boat. One for the tower, one for the front 2 speakers, and one for the 4 rear speakers.

This has proven to be one of the best additions I have done to my system. You can turn down the front really low if the girls want to sit up front and talk and you can still have it loud in the back or you can have the tower really loud and all the boat much lower or visa versa. It basically gives you the ability to adjust the sound throughout the boat for any situation.

Just something to think about now before you get everything wired.
Old    John Klein (jklein)      Join Date: May 2001       01-19-2005, 1:46 PM Reply   
I have the blue top battery already and I think the benefits of the blue top are that:
1. More power in the inital 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional batteries.

2. Ideal for seasonal use, it can sit unused for up to 12 months at room temperature (or below) and still provide the power necessary to start your boat's engine.

The yellow top is designed for vehicles that have a lot of accessories like running lights, high-performance stereo/AV system, winches, or hydraulics etc.. Yellow top provides the extra performance and deep cycling capability for that type of demands.

Regarding the LC-1's. I was going to use it to drive the volume on the tower speakers only. I was going to use the standard controls on the head unit to fade the volume front to back in the cabin. Will that not work?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2005, 1:53 PM Reply   
Yes, thats what I do. Front channel runs the boat speakers, rear channel runs the tower, & sub channel, well that run the subs. I like having all controllable from the deck, its neater, the LC-1's are pretty ugly IMO. Also if you want to run the tower speakers at high level & the boat at low level is that possible with the LC-1 setup?

(Message edited by ralph on January 19, 2005)
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       01-19-2005, 1:56 PM Reply   
John,

I'm sure you knwo this but its not in your diagram. Don't forget to fuse that main power wire. What guage wire are you running as main power/ground?

Hairbanddude,
You can search on the internet for detailed descriptions of deep cycle batteries. Both kinds. I'll proabbly get bashed for this but I don't think optima's are worth the money. My wal-mart deep cycle has held up great for over two years..I'm pulling over 1100 watts RMS. less than half the cost of the optima. Optima's are great batteries and they have even better marketing.
Old    John Klein (jklein)      Join Date: May 2001       01-19-2005, 2:10 PM Reply   
I didn't include fuses and such because I didn't want to clutter the drawing, but everything will be fused of course.

I have not determined the gauge of wire for power yet, but that's something I need to think about. I'm going to run 14 gauge speaker wire.

To respond to the IPod question, there's an Aux input into the back of the Sony 7705 head unit that allows an IPod to be plugged into it with a third party adapter. You can't control the IPod from the Sony UI, but you can switch the mode to Aux input on the Sony and drive everything else from the IPod.

I'm not sure where I'm going to mount the LC-1 yet. I agree it's not eye-candy. I may mount it behind the dash with just the knob exposed someplace. I need to see what my options are.

As far as running the boat speakers at a low level and the tower at a high level, that's my plan with the LC-1. I hope I've got it designed correctly, hence my questions for any experts with views.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2005, 2:25 PM Reply   
So does the PAC LC-1 have a line driver built in? What voltage does it boost to?
Old    bigdeal            01-19-2005, 2:27 PM Reply   
Hey Darren, the PAC's aren't ugly when you alter them a little. I have three installed 'in' my dash currently. Have a look and see if you still think they're ugly. Also, as Mike Triplett wrote, they are fantastic at tailering the sound coming out of your system. When I navigate some of the canals between lakes around here, I dial the tower speakers off. When the ladies are in the bow chatting, I dial those speakers down or off. If we're beached somewhere, I dial off the bow and cabin speakers so all I'm running is the tower speakers and my sub. You just can't beat the flexibility.

John, the only comments I'd offer on your setup is:
1 - Think I'd recommend going with something other than a Crunch amp to power your in boat speakers. I'm not a big fan of their stuff.
2 - Kudo on your diagram and the planning that went into it. I thought I was the only one anal enough to diagram my complete wiring setup.

Oh, and one last comment on Optima batteries. The Yellow top deep cycle and the Blue top deep cycle are identical internally, the only difference is the secondary terminal connections (wing nuts) on the Blue top batteries.
PAC's mounted in my Dash



(Message edited by bigdeal on January 19, 2005)
Old    bigdeal            01-19-2005, 2:36 PM Reply   
By the way, for those of you looking closely at the pic I posted. First, the third PAC I have installed is not reflected in the pic I posted. It's currently mounted about an inch to the left of the two existing PAC's. They're all three mounted in a row on the right side of the dash. Second, the exposed hole in the left side of my dash (just below the second gauge) is currently filled with my Class D sub amp gain control knob. I wanted a super clean install for all these controls, that kept all of them close at hand in front of me. I think I managed to accomplish that goal pretty well.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-19-2005, 2:54 PM Reply   
John,

Nice setup. great diagram.

BIGDEAL,

I have an LC1 for my tower speakers and love it also. I wouldn't mind installing another for the cabin speakers as you've done. My LC1 is an ugly box and the stem on the knob is very short making a dashboard installation seem difficult. How did you do that? Here's what mine looks like:
lc1

Also, does it affect sound quality to run very long RCA cable to the LC1 and then all of the way back to my amps which are in the storage compartment on the other side of the boat?
Here's where I put it now. It's very cheesy, but it works. lc1seat
Old    John Klein (jklein)      Join Date: May 2001       01-19-2005, 4:39 PM Reply   
Mike:

Thanks on the input, but I already own the crunch so I'm going to re-use it for now. I can always swap it out for a different amp later if it's not doing the job.

I can't comment on the internals of the batteries. All I know is that I like my blue top and they recommend the yellow top for accessories, so I'll go with it.

I don't really know what the LC-1 does. I think it just attenuates the signal into the amp.

Anyone have a good recommendation for a battery isolator / relay?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2005, 5:18 PM Reply   
No thats looks very nice John. Super clean install, good work.
Old    bigdeal            01-19-2005, 7:25 PM Reply   
talltigeguy... Here's how 'I' accomplished my dash install. Of course this assumes your PAC's are exactly like mine, so be careful if you try this process.
1 - Loosen the small set screw on the knob and slide it off the shaft.
2 - Separate the front face of the orange cover from the larger back cover. Use a putty knife (or similar) to pry it apart, it's only glued together. Be careful not to damage the small circuit board for the PAC.
3 - Remove the front half of the orange cover by pulling it over the knob shaft.
4 - Remove the larger rear orange cover by cutting it in half. I used a good pair of cutting pliers to break it apart.

What you end up with is the knob assembly without the protective cover. Once the cover is off, the knob shaft is also somewhat longer making a through dashboard install possible. Since the protective cover on the PAC is not watertight, and since my final install would place the interals of the PAC's behind my dash and out of harms way, I saw no issue in removing the stock protective cover.

As to your comment about running long RCA's along with the PAC's, I can't comment on that one. All three of my amps are installed under the drivers console and along the driver's side gunnel, so all my runs are less than 5 feet in length.

Good luck.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       01-19-2005, 9:21 PM Reply   
John,

Looks like you are well on your way to having a nice system. Looking at your amps I might pick up a nicer amp for the tower speakers and move the Kicker down to the sub. I feel pretty sure that you won't be happy with your power once you get out on the water. If you don't want to buy another amp I might just run deck power to the boat speaks and move the crunch to the tower, kicker to the sub. I also used a LC-1 on my tower but I typically turned it all up or off so I will just use a switch on the turn on wire to the tower amp.

Have fun.
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-19-2005, 10:45 PM Reply   
you should use two of the same batterys, better for a even charge and dis charge rate
Old    trip            01-20-2005, 6:20 AM Reply   
I did the same thing Mike (bigdeal) did. I removed the plastic case around the PACs and drilled 3 holls in my dash and mounted them to where you can only see the knob. It's much easier than trying to use the fade on the stereo. At least for me since my head unit is in the glove box.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       01-20-2005, 7:09 AM Reply   
I have good luck with the stinger electroncis isolator/realy. I see no voltage drop at all. I've read a few posts where people have had some issues with it, but I've had none. You can get a 200amp one for aroudn $30-40. check ebay.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-20-2005, 7:45 AM Reply   
Thanks Mike. I think that helps a lot.
Old    John Klein (jklein)      Join Date: May 2001       01-20-2005, 9:10 AM Reply   
Adam: Thanks for the input on isolator / regulator.

Mike: I'm a little confused about your AMP comment. While I agree the Crunch is a junk amp and I will swap it eventually, I matched the Kicker 450.2 to the RMS requirements of the Fusion tower speakers and the MTX 251D to the RMS requirements of the Kicker Sub. Why is this not right? I guess I don't understand.
Old    Army Dad (sam8)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-20-2005, 5:22 PM Reply   
John,

Check out the isolator/combiners at www.hellroaring.com.
I am going to put a second battery in our boat, and am looking at these units.

(Message edited by sam8 on January 20, 2005)

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