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Old    cdm (cdm)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-11-2004, 5:43 PM Reply   
03' Mastercraft X-Star MCX 5.7 Liter 350 V8. The manual says- 15W40, SJ, CG4 or DH4. Anyone know about the last 3? I can't find 15W40 as of yet.
Old    wakecord            09-11-2004, 6:13 PM Reply   
The SJ is a gas engine spec, the CG is diesel.

Any good 'dino' 15w-40 like Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella meets the specs.

I use Amsoil 15W-40 (syn).
Old    Chuck J (wake_eater)      Join Date: May 2003       09-11-2004, 7:25 PM Reply   
i would say cod liver.
Old    cdm (cdm)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-12-2004, 1:13 PM Reply   
thanks WakeCord.. thanks for nothing chuck. You can go back to playing with yourself now...
Old    Tom Barnard (tlb)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-12-2004, 1:31 PM Reply   
The guys at Ski World in pleasanton use mobil 1 20/50. That's what they recommended to use after break in. (at least 50 hrs.)
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-12-2004, 6:06 PM Reply   
i was using mobil 1 till i "SAW THE LIIIGGHHT" and started using amsoil, three times the oil change interval, still have to change the filter on schedule though :-)
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       09-12-2004, 7:24 PM Reply   
First of all anyone who runs their motors longer than the recommended service interval should take a GM power train clinic. We did a presentation to 93 people yesterday on many of these types of issues. The head guy just happens to also be the guy that deals with warranty issues and finding out why they failed over and over. Guess what? Contaminents are the leading cause. There is no type of oil in the world that protects the upper ring land from coking nor the seals from leaking, EXCEPT the oil that is changed regularly. What is the point of changing the filter when most of the contaminents are suspended in the oil. In fact oil filters do not filter 100% of the fluid all the time. Instead the engine oil bypass valve opens at a lower pressure than you might think.
Old    Tom Barnard (tlb)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-12-2004, 7:45 PM Reply   
Just to clarify, I was not suggesting prolonging the change interval, I was saying you should not use Synthetic until after the break in period.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-13-2004, 6:37 PM Reply   
Peter go to this link http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/forddiesel.htm and read down about 1/2 the page, 20000 mile oil change intervals for diesels with 7000 mile filter changes. Sounds too good to be true, NOT, since electricity seemed too good to be true till Ben Franklin did his experiments http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blelectric.htm

The key word here is OIL ANALYSIS and a better oil then the masses are using

Here is a quote from: http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/DuramaxDiesel.htm
The Performance Oil Technology Diesel Powerstroke vehicle #3 has over 87,000 miles on the same oil as of Sept. 2004. Laboratory oil chemical analysis every 15-20,000 miles indicates the oil is perfectly suitable for continued service. Other customers have traveled well over 100,000 miles and oil analysis still indicates no oil change necessary. I will mail you a copy of vehicle #3's oil analysis results with your product and technical information package so you can see the data for yourself. In addition, the AMSOIL By-Pass filter will also remove up to a pint of water from your vehicle's lubrication system, which is especially important in a diesel engine. Without this the water promotes rust, corrosion and rapid wear. Internal engine heat also creates acids which also wear the engine components. The water and acids build and continue to work destroying your engine even after engine shutdown.

I think these guys know a little about oil, their reputations are resting on this data and reporting. They have also been in business long enough to know falsely representing a product will only lead to failure. Oil companies dont want this data getting out or it will mean lost millions.
Old    jude (macdaddy)      Join Date: May 2004       09-13-2004, 7:04 PM Reply   
soo oil experts!!! how many hours do you think should be on a motor before swiching to synthetic...I run amsoil in mu cars wanted to do the san for the boat
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-13-2004, 7:12 PM Reply   
Call me old school, but there is no way I'm leaving ANY oil & filter in for extended periods. 2 to 3 thousand on my vehicles and 30 to 35 hrs. on the boat. 15 or 20 bucks and a half hour is nothing to me. This is how you make an engine last a LONG time!
Old    Tom Barnard (tlb)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-13-2004, 7:49 PM Reply   
I'm with you Sparky, everyone makes this a money issue. I look at it this way, I change oil in my boat twice a year. I want to use the best oil I can. I can justify an extra 15-20 bucks for my 55k boat.
Old    Chuck J (wake_eater)      Join Date: May 2003       09-13-2004, 8:03 PM Reply   
come on cdm, where's your sense of humor?
Old    derek boyer (toyotafreak)      Join Date: Sep 2003       09-13-2004, 9:59 PM Reply   
Changing my Mobil 1 oil, filter, ATF and gear oil once per year in the fall makes me sleep well at night. And it's not $15-20 bucks, but it IS a hell of a lot cheaper than having it serviced.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       09-14-2004, 9:11 AM Reply   
Bob, if you believe all advertising, then I will put a bridge up for sale on a website and you can buy part of it Fram does an excellent job of marketing, but has crappy filters.

First off they are doing it with a diesel. Diesels run much cooler than a gas engine and hold over double if not more oil. They are also running a bypass oil filtration system like on the buses and big rigs. Did you know big rigs go 25K on regular old dino oil? In fact much of the oil used in big rigs is recycled dino oil.

Heat is a primary killer of oil. I had a sports car that used to scare me with how high the oil temps would go, when pushing the motor, and I had an oil cooler on it. Synthetics are much better at not breaking down, but dino oil has properties that can not be duplicated synthetically.

Contaminents get into oil no matter what. A filter can only remove so much. If you use an expensive bypass filter then you will remove probably close to 60% more contaminents. Unfortunately the manufacturers do not put that on their cars. Soot in diesels is what causes the oil to get so black and also thickens the oil changing the viscosity. My diesel is always black, although I run about 7000+ miles on intervals, and it only holds 11 quarts. Diesels run 20:1 compression and have more blow by than a gasoline powered vehicle.

Now Chevron might know something about oil changes and oil analysis. They are also extremely cheap. They power up their equipment with generators that run none stop with next to little load, all things considered. They have a regular routine of service intervals (not sure how many hours) and also flush the contaminents out of the oil using a special machine that we put in there.

I personally run Mobil 1 5/50 in our gas powered vehicles and change it out just a hair longer than the recommended service interval on our Suburban and Tahoe. My Willys gets more frequent oil changes as it is abused.

The nice thing about living in a free country is we have choices in how we want to do things

Hope you and your family are safe!
Old    Zedz Dead (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-14-2004, 2:02 PM Reply   
This is hysterical! When was the last time you or a neighbor or friend suffered an "oil related" failure? Fram this and Pennzoil that…when was the last time you heard of ANYONE having an issue due to the oil or filter they were running? Has any mainstream engine manufacturer denied a warranty claim because fresh clean oil failed? Outside of Ferrari and the limited production Enzo I can find no engine manufacturer that specifically precludes using any other brand of oil or filter than their recommendation.
Why would you say a diesel runs cooler? The efficiency of any cycle, be it a gasoline or diesel cycle, is equal to the output divided by the input. The efficiency of the diesel cycle is higher than the gasoline cycle because of higher compression ratio, and because the temperature of combustion in a diesel engine is much higher. Therefore, the heat input in a diesel engine is at a higher average temperature. The higher temperature is outweighed by the increased heat output at that same temperature. A gasoline engine cannot have the same compression ratio as a diesel engine, because fuel and air are mixed before they reach the cylinder, and they would explode before the piston reached the correct firing position, causing the engine to “knock” and not exploit the most efficient use of energy. Diesel fuel contains on average (per gallon) 147,000BTUs of energy while gasoline contains 125,000BTUs…clearly the diesel is more efficient, but cooler running? I’m not sure how higher compression, larger bearing surfaces, heavier parts and more BTUs per gallon add up to cooler running…
FYI:
If you want to use synthetic Indmar recommends waiting till 100 hours.

If you are trying to utilize longer service intervals between oil changes then make sure and have complete lab analysis done before exceeding normal oil change intervals.

Engine oil the most tested and researched substance on earth.

Just my .02
Old    sydwayz (sydwayz)      Join Date: Mar 2003       09-14-2004, 2:28 PM Reply   
Yes.....Fram filters do fail. I have a '97 Cummins and the Fram oil filter failed. I had regular oil changes at 3000 miles since new. At 60k a Fram oil filter internally fell apart and clogged #6 piston oil galley causing piston scoring. Dodge was aware of the issue and posted not to use Fram for this reason. But Jiffy Lube continued to use them. Lucky for me after Jiffy Lube and Fram waffled over the repalcement of the $8,000 shortblock repacement. Cummins stepped up.

Just my 2 cents
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       09-14-2004, 3:29 PM Reply   
Zedz, you are so wrong it isn't even funny.

Did you know that GM will not warranty a motor if a motor requires an anti-drain back filter and someone does not use one? Did you know Ford and GM will not warranty an air mass meter if you put a K&N in it? I have seen many problems due to lack of oil changes and wrong filters. How many oil changes and cars have you worked on? If it is less than a thousand you need more experience. Do you work with factory trainers and regularly go to school for automotive technology? Didn't think so...

As for diesels running cooler, do you own one? If so take a look at your temp gauge then get into a car and read what it says. Yeah there may only be 40 degree difference but hey that is a lot. Cameros do not even kick on the cooling fan until they reach 230 degrees. A diesel runs 180-190 degrees. Yes diesel does contain more BTU's per gallon but it also does not take nearly as much fuel to go a set time. Ever seen how diesels cover their radiators when gas engines do not?

Now I will agree with you about "fresh clean oil" as I too feel many things are overrated. Yup a new wakeboard will make me a better rider...riiight!

Oh yeah Ferrari is one of my clients.


Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-14-2004, 3:31 PM Reply   
But Fram has the cool black line-x thingy so you can install and remove it by hand and not put a screwdriver through it to take it off. Only kidding I wouldn't trust Fram on any $40k boat. Step up and spend the extra cash for both the oil and filter it's worth it just to sleep at night.
Old    Squid (twakess)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-14-2004, 3:36 PM Reply   
What is a good oil filter, also I go to 100hrs not 50hrs for changes it that ok or not?
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-14-2004, 3:39 PM Reply   
I've heard nothing but good things about Wix or Napa (which I believe is Wix).
Old    whitechocolate            09-14-2004, 7:56 PM Reply   
Peter: What Oil do you recomend for my GT-40 and how often do you think I should change it. Same for the trany.
Thanks G
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-14-2004, 8:33 PM Reply   
Squid... double the recommended service time is not a good idea, especially considering boat engines are constantly under load and you are running weight = more work for the engine.
I also have wondered about the best filter for my application... Mercruiser 350 MPI, how often should trans fluid be changed as well, I have not been diligent on the trans fluid but plan on staying on top of that much more
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       09-14-2004, 9:13 PM Reply   
Grant, if it were me it is not so much whether you put synthetic in or not, but just doing routine services. The difference from one brand of dino oil to another is not that great and your motor should do just fine on 20/50. Most of the oils are made in the same plant. If you want synthetic I would run a Mobil 1 5/50 or there abouts or brand?? As for filters Wix's high end or Napa Gold's but you can never go wrong with Motorcraft for a Ford or A/C Delco for a GM or Ford heh.
Old    Zedz Dead (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-15-2004, 6:05 AM Reply   
Pete,

I’m glad I could supply you with some comedy; however, it is you sir that have a few things incorrect.

1) Someone as schooled and versed as you should know that it is called and ENGINE (a machine for converting any of various forms of energy into mechanical force and motion) not a MOTOR (a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into mechanical energy).

2) I never made any statement about using the WRONG parts on an engine and effecting manufacturer’s warranty. This would include but not be limited to a filter with or without a drain back valve.

3) The number of cars I have worked on is irrelevant to this conversation but by point of interest I have changed oil on many makes and models (you don’t know me so don’t assume)…I doubt Stephen Hawking has been has been outside the solar system but name a more knowledgeable astrophysicist/mathematician. Denny Kidder has never water skied or ridden a wakeboard…should we all send our D3, KD and Blindside products back?

4) Since you have asked the question I have owned several diesel trucks…Do you actually mean to say that the temp gauge on the dash is the way you judge operating temp? Why do you suppose a diesel radiator is so many times larger than the equivalent gas engine? Nose weight…How about heat dissipation?
Old    John Klein (jklein)      Join Date: May 2001       09-15-2004, 7:38 AM Reply   
A couple of years ago there was a link to an article posted on this web site or the other one (wakeb**rder.com) that had a great analysis of oil filters. That's where I learned that Napa Gold filters are Wix filters, and that they are very good filters for the extra couple of bucks over a Fram/Delco/Penzoil filter. Those other three, blow the bypass valve very easily.

If anyone has the link, would be useful to have since this question does come up a lot.
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-15-2004, 9:33 AM Reply   
A diesel radiator is so much bigger on diesel pickup trucks because the radiator is also cooling the transmission, and diesel pickups tend to be used under harsh operating conditions such as hauling large loads. Because of this manufacturers compensate and increase radiator size. If diesel pickups were just driving down the highway in normal conditions they may not need such a large radiator. A new Silverado 3500HD with the 8.1L big block will also have a larger radiator because GM anticipates this truck will be used for hauling large loads under severe stress. My mom's turbo diesel 1.9L VW Beetle does not have a larger radiator than the 2.0L gas because it is the same engine block and the anticipated stress on a VW Beetle is less than a diesel pickup. Also as Peter said diesel do run cooler than gas engines and you can use your temp guage to tell this. They man expend more energy, but diesels tend to run at lower RPMs and have higher torque so less fuel is required to produce adequate running power.
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-15-2004, 9:35 AM Reply   
I know this has nothing to do with boats but I thought I would put in my $0.02 to clear up a point. Yes diesels do have a cooler running temperature and yes Zedz is right they do produce more heat when compared to a gas engine it's just that gas engines run at higher rpms therefore their running temperature is higher.
Old    Michael W. Gwin (mwgwin)      Join Date: Oct 2002       09-15-2004, 9:41 AM Reply   
Okay, I bought an 01 X-Star this spring, fall is nearing and i have that yearly service to worry about. About the only mechanical experience I have is changing the oil in my car. I am however, a quick learner and pretty handy.

Id love to learn more about my boat and how to service it but Im having a hard time finding sources. Does anyone publish an engine manual like they do for cars that you can buy at Autozone? Where did you guys all learn this stuff. I just get scared doing anything engine related to my expensive toy. Especially if Ive never done it.

I wish there was a class or something I could take specific to these engines.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Old    wakecord            09-15-2004, 10:05 AM Reply   
Mike:

Try this link for a Indmar engine manual (in PDF):
http://www.indmar.com/files/manual/indmar_2001_om.pdf

Dave

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