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Old    Lucky Charms (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-23-2004, 9:20 AM Reply   
I know there have been a couple threads on this in the past, but I searched and couldn’t find anything. Last week we took out a really big guy, and as expected, had a hard time getting him out of the water. He was essentially leaning back and stretching out (and plowing through the water), instead of letting the boat pull him forward. After quite a number of tries, the only thing that seemed to work was to get him to exaggerate putting his shoulders and arms forward as far possible over the board while sitting in the water so that he’d already be somewhat forward.

He did get up a couple of times in the end, but couldn’t get past the wake.

Anybody have any other tips for getting big guys out? We’re bringing him out again tonight.
Old    goose69            07-23-2004, 9:29 AM Reply   
A tug boat? Just kidding.. Try a dock start.. that way he is already half way up.
Old    mango (mango)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-23-2004, 9:31 AM Reply   
i remember a post like this within the past month as well but I couldn't find it for you.

You probably have to pull them out a little harder since they weigh a lot more. Get him to relax and not try to muscle his way up and bring his knees to his chest as far as they go.
Old    toolfan (toolfan)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-23-2004, 10:10 AM Reply   
make him watch detention.
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-23-2004, 10:32 AM Reply   
Yeah, seriously. Detention should be like a prerequisite to even attempting to get on the rope. We tried with a buddy who had never snowboarded or skated or anything. He was almost there but was in the wrong position and ended up straining his MCL pretty bad.

I wish I had watched Detention before trying, it would have saved me and the boat alot of time and effort. Once I figured out the whole knees to the chest heels to the butt thing, I quit blowing all my strength on getting up and saved it for the wake.
Old    Lucky Charms (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-23-2004, 1:27 PM Reply   
We don't have the option of doing a dock start.

We have taught a lot of people to get up, basically going through the same stuff that Detention and other videos teach - knees to chest and butt to board etc. But the big guys always want to fight it.

The only thing I didn't do with him that time is practise pulling him up in the boat before he's in the water. And I didn't do that because I don't think I could have pulled him up - he's like 240 pounds!

Any other ideas?
Old    r_dub            07-23-2004, 2:02 PM Reply   
Here's an idea, Loose some weight. Sorry, someone was going to say it, why not me.
Old    mango (mango)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-23-2004, 2:05 PM Reply   
Yeah I might of said something like that if you didn't. Ryan I'm adding you to DMC!
Old    svlridermike            07-23-2004, 2:11 PM Reply   
What I learned early on is that technique is very important. I weight about 270 right now. I board over 100 days a year. Hopefully the guy is in good shape. If he hasn't exercised much that could be a big problem. He also may just be a slow learner and needs to go out several times. He is definitely not to big to ride.
Old    foobysmacker            07-23-2004, 3:57 PM Reply   
lucky--

the technique from detention is pretty basic and works. Even my old I/O could pull anyone out of the water on a wakeboard with proper technique.

I agree you need to pull him harder than your average 160lb. man. With an inboard ski boat it's still going to be a breeze for the boat.

How much ballast are you running? I only weigh 160 but I boarded behind a VLX with 3800lbs. in it-- and ANYONE takes forever to get up to speed with THAT kind of weight in it. So for teaching someone to get up, you may want to be sure there's no ballast in the boat.

I recommend practicing the technique of pulling the guy up on dry ground with your hands. Put your feet over his toes and pull him up and over his ankles. Have him think of rolling his torso up and over on his ankles with his knees all the way into his chest. Arms all the way out, knees and butt in. My wife is 5'5" and 115lbs and can pull a 270lb. guy up onto his ankles using proper technique.

The only reason an out of shape person getting out of the water shouldn't be able to get up (with proper technique) is weak hands. It's not about leg or arm strength at all.

Hope that helps.
Old    grampawakerider            07-23-2004, 6:49 PM Reply   
I'm wondering if he's trying to get up too fast? Thats the big hold up I get when teaching new riders. I show all new riders Detention before we go to the lake. Then again after we get back. (At least the first 10 minutes or so anyways.)
Old    jeebus            07-23-2004, 8:05 PM Reply   
He just has to learn not to fight it.
Old    upupnaway            07-24-2004, 5:59 AM Reply   
I have a couple of really big riders on my boat, and they used to wear themselves out getting up until one of the guys on this board showed them a different way to get up.

It is your basic deep water start, except they pull the board under water as soon as the boat begins pulling them. they move the board down to their butt instead of pulling their butt to their heels.
I have never done it, and I don't think I am explaining it too well. I will have my buddy that does it post.
Old    Darrin (soonerboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-24-2004, 3:31 PM Reply   
Tell him to stop fighting it. Absolutely STOP fighting it. Tell him that the less he tries, the easier it will be. If he starts to pull and straighten his legs then stop.

We like to have new riders put the board up against the back of the swim platform (in the water, with the boat off). Then, you can pull on the rope from the boat and try to show them what it feels like.


And, one more thing, tell them to stop fighting it.
Old    upupnaway            07-24-2004, 3:45 PM Reply   
Hey darrin, great advice, but you should have told them to stop fighting it.
Old    Paul (denwakebdr)      Join Date: Apr 2004       07-26-2004, 12:26 AM Reply   
Hey Lucky.....Make sure he is on a wide and long board....I am 275lbs and have no problems charging....practice, practice, practice
Old    Chris G (lumpy9138)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-26-2004, 10:30 AM Reply   
I am the one Mike(upupnaway) is talking about. I did learn to get up the normal way, but was wearing myself out on get ups. Plowing thruogh the water, and getting nosefulls of lake water. I think it's basically a deep water start.
I start with the board above water, in the crouched position. As soon as the boat starts pulling, I duck the board underwater. The board then slides back towards my butt. I will be in a squatting position at this point, and the board will still be underwater. The board will pretty much plane up out of the water at this point. It takes some practice, and some unglamorous facepalnts on start up, but it will benifit him in the long run. Oh, I have to give mad props to Andre the Giant for that bit of advice. (where are ya, man?)
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-26-2004, 11:12 AM Reply   
Have him practice holding the board somewhat sideways(about 45 degrees) in the water, When he can do that comfy pull him up slowly! It forces the back fin to track for him and he's already in a very unnatural position. Being in this position takes most of the fight out of him since he has almost no leverage.
I think getting a new rider out of the water is just as much driver as it is rider. The driver has to watch, know when to apply more throttle and when to back off.

Three weeks ago I met a fella who's been trying to get up for almost two years, big guy, I'd guess 250+. We got him up and riding in 4 attempts with this technique. Once he got up he had no problem getting up again. It's muscle memory for the most part.
Old    wake_addict (radikal)      Join Date: Feb 2004       07-26-2004, 11:15 AM Reply   
hi,

i weight 300 pounds so i know what is a big guy...lol
but just imagine i have a sea-doo sportster with 155hp on a jetboat.
can you just imagine how it was hard to get up the first time ??

but now i can get up in 2 sec, and nobody can give tricks but after a couple times the big guy will try some things to get up and it will be easier to easier !!!

now i am planning to buy a SANTE 05 because i am tired to get tired just after rush to get up !! i want to RIDE!!!!!!!! LOL.

no seriously now i can catch huge air behind my jetboat, but the only problem is the wake size and she is to soft i pass thru the wake instead of getting on it !!!!

see yah !
Old    eric (eas)      Join Date: Nov 2001       07-26-2004, 12:41 PM Reply   
what?

i mean, congrats on being a 300 pounder who can get up behind a jetboat but....

what?
Old    eric (eas)      Join Date: Nov 2001       07-26-2004, 12:46 PM Reply   
Lucky: 240 is not THAT big. As was said, try to stress relaxation and letting the boat do the work. I think new guys, in general, try to pull themselves up at first. You might have him hold the handle a little higher (above his knees) at the start...this may create a lever-type action that will pull his chest and shoulders forward and up a little. Good Luck....
Old    Lucky Charms (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-26-2004, 2:36 PM Reply   
Well, the good news is that he did manage to figure it out. And yes, I told him to to not fight it! I did have him hold his hands higher and further forward, and that seemed to work. We drained the sacks for him so there was minimal wake. He was on the biggest board we had - around a 140. I'm guessing at the 240 - all I know is he uses our XXL lifejacket!

He got up pretty consistently on Friday night, and then had a hard time trying to edge. What a difference from a guy we had out on Saturday - up no problem, crossing the wakes, doing some pretty good wake jumps for a first timer! I hate people who show me up :-)

Thanks for all the help.

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