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Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-13-2004, 9:11 AM Reply   
Skis are compression molded too right? I think that's where Hyperlite got the idea is from their water skis
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-13-2004, 11:59 AM Reply   
This has been beat to death....
Old    emoney            01-13-2004, 12:51 PM Reply   
Ricky G. RULZ
Old    JONb (jonb)      Join Date: Oct 2003       01-13-2004, 9:24 PM Reply   
i was talking to someone who runs the local boardshop and he said that if hyperlite made the premier in a 138 you would end up with ricky's board.
Old    Itch (fullonsalesgrp)      Join Date: Jan 2004       01-14-2004, 5:42 AM Reply   
Thats funny cause rickys board is actually a 136 the top sheet went into production with out being checked there for because we were in such a rush it says 138.
ITCH
GB FOREVER
Old    Todd (goodtime)      Join Date: Sep 2002       01-15-2004, 12:32 AM Reply   
I think what we are all missing, besides the facts of things we cannot control is something that we can. Which companies we support, i cringe when i see snowboard kids riding ski company snowboards, so instead of riding slalom ski corporate boards, support rider owned companies, companies that we can help to secure a future in the sport we all have fun with. cheers
Old    Todd (goodtime)      Join Date: Sep 2002       01-15-2004, 12:37 AM Reply   
So instead of girly talk about who is a better ride or better board, go ride. When u buy a board, go buy one from a rad company that you want to see succeed and give back to wakeboarding. We all know that a board doesnt make that big of a differance, just boat time and shred skills....haaavvvveee funnn...
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-15-2004, 9:45 AM Reply   
so... todd, wich one do you think has or does contribute more the sport? Gator or Hyperlite?
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       01-15-2004, 12:53 PM Reply   
"We all know that a board doesnt make that big of a differance, just boat time and shred skills"

I'm not sure I would agree totally with that, my son rides for Hyperlite because he likes their boards. He had better offers from other companies.

And I think Ricky G. rips! He's a great guy and has established himself well as a wakeboarding "personality", more power to him and I hope great success for GB.
Old    Todd (goodtime)      Join Date: Sep 2002       01-15-2004, 1:26 PM Reply   
ride whatever board u like, it wont make u an overnight shredder if u have the latest greatest shred stick. hyperlite gives a lot back to the sport and that is a great thing. I was just adding my 2cents on supporting rider owned companies because i think that it is a great thing and ever little bit helps them, thus helping us too.

ricky g is a better rider than ill ever be..cheers
Old    pans210            01-15-2004, 1:56 PM Reply   
Someone may have already said it above, but I didn't read the whole thread, so here you go...

BadAss molds were in fact stolen by Hyperlite. At the time, Hyperlite was pressing BadAss boards. There was a verbal agreement between O'brien and Fletcher that Hyperlite would do nothing but press boards for BadAss, and not use any of the molds for their (Hyperlite) own line of boards. To cut a long story short, O'brien broke the agreement.

And yes, Gator obtained the rights to BadAss designs...legally.

By the way, the not so naked chef (electricsnow) knows her shizz when it comes to wakeboarding...more than you guys would give her credit for.

(Message edited by pans210 on January 15, 2004)
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       01-15-2004, 2:49 PM Reply   
Interesting post ryan. It's surprising to me that Paul O'brien would talk about how he wishes other board companies would take more pride in their shapes...maybe that's because he was making good use out of them (haha). I don't know if anyone read that, but the entire interview is on alliancewake.com. there's some stuff in there that wasn't in the magazine interview. And as I mentioned before, it's completely bizarre to me that they'd steal a shape and then have Danny Harf say it was based on a number of different rides. Whatever, now it's a hand-me-down for erik ruck. I suppose that's a small piece of evidence that riders don't always get to design their boards. I actually feel really bad for herbie.

Lastly Ryan, I really appreciate your compliment. It was nice of you to say and good Karma is yours forever...taa daa...
Old    martini            01-15-2004, 7:15 PM Reply   
i rode for herbie and badass back in '99 and '00
on the "b" team...ryan is pretty right on...
Old    maverick_gear            01-15-2004, 7:58 PM Reply   
Thanks alot for backin up the facts Ryan and Pete! it is nice that others who know the facts will pipe up and give GB and Ricky the legitimacy they deserve especially with all the GB haters out there right now. it stokes me out that people will finally know the real story and Herbie will get some credit for all the influence he has had on our beloved industry!
Old    slideit            01-15-2004, 8:41 PM Reply   
if you guys spent as much time on the water as you do on your gossip you might get your own board.this thing is over move on and get wet
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       01-15-2004, 9:55 PM Reply   
people can post whatever they want whenever they want. Also, some of us have seasons to deal with, (not to mention health ailments) that make it impossible to ride. I for one found this entire post to be completely interesting and if someone else has another viewpoint to bring to the table, I'll listen.

Fyi, rumor has it that thruster had a wakeboard out before hype. In fact, some very influential snowboarders can be seen testing them out in the flf videos "snowboarders in exile" and "critical condition."

(Message edited by electricsnow on January 15, 2004)
Old    ontrider            01-15-2004, 10:43 PM Reply   
geez... electricsnow you're like a wakeboarding encyclopedia!
Old    English (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       01-16-2004, 12:11 AM Reply   
Elecricsnow- as always, knows it all, there is no hard proof, but alot of people do say Thruster made the first compression molded wakeboard, before HL(hence my last post on this thread).
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       01-16-2004, 12:45 AM Reply   
electricsnow- quit makin excuses...

this thread was pretty cool...easily the most interesting thread ive read in awhile.
Old    pans210            01-16-2004, 8:44 AM Reply   
Tomas Haveasue (slideit), what are doing posting when you should be riding?

Your comment was absolutely ridiculous.
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       01-16-2004, 11:37 AM Reply   
Thanks jonathan, it just takes a lot of reading and watching videos etc. I'm still learning though.

Krisitian, I figured that's what you were alluding to, but at first I wasn't going to get involved. Those two snowboarding videos are from 1990 and 1991, and take into consideration that each was filmed the winter before. And I'm not trying to totally dog on hyperlite, but it's like people think that they can do no wrong. I'm glad there were a number of people that knew the badass story and could give accurate accounts that match up.

Scott a, damn you...
Old    martini            01-16-2004, 12:04 PM Reply   
4sure maverick...

it bums me out that herbie is out of the industry...i loved riding for him. he was always looking to do something new and fresh!
Old    maverick_gear            01-16-2004, 3:59 PM Reply   
yes i feel the same, hopefully he can come back and do some cool stuff in the future.
Old    mike hillard (otiswunguy)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-17-2004, 4:03 PM Reply   
hey i'd like to throw jobes name out there too, i saw prototype compression molded wakeboards on sammamish right around the same time. I don't feel that they were the first nor was hyperlite or gator, i am willing to bet that a few people came out with the idea of compression molding and later molded in fins, then had their ideas purchased(badass), copied or modified (gb) or stolen(hyperlite) SOME OF YOU KNOW ABOUT MY RECENT DRAMA WITH HYPERLITE. I OWNED AND POSTED PICS OF THE 2004 BYERLY BEFORE IT WAS OUT IN STORES. I WAS CONFRONTED BY PAUL OBRIEN AND BRIAN GARDNER AT MY HOME ON LAKE SAMMAMISH. PAUL INFORMED ME THAT THE BOARD I WAS RIDING WAS STOLEN FROM THEIR WAREHOUSE AND THAT I WAS IN POSSESION OF STOLEN PROPERTY. THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE. I PURCHASED IT FROM A LONG TIME EMPLOYEE AND FRIEND OF HERBS. PAUL THEN TOLD ME THAT HE NEEDED THE BOARD THAT I HAD PAID FOR AND WAITED FOR, BACK. THE REASON FROM PAULS OWN MOUTH "THERE ARE ONLY THREE BOARDS MADE AND WE NEED TO SHIP THEM OUT TO BYERLY SO HE CAN APPROVE THEM. HE HASN'T EVEN RIDDEN IT YET!" I LOVE HYPERLITE, I LOVE THEIR PRODUCTS. PAUL, HOWEVER WILL NOT GET ANOTHER PENNY FROM ME DUE TO HIS POOR PEOPLE SKILLS. SO IF THIS ISN'T PROOF THAT HYPERLITE RIDERS DON'T ALWAYS HELP IN THE DESIGNS OF THEIR PRO MODELS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL. I DON'T KNOW BYERLY, I ONLY KNOW WHAT PAUL TOLD ME. HE COULD HAVE JUST SAID THOSE THINGS ABOUT BYERLY NEEDING TO APPROVE THOSE BOARDS SO HE WOULD FEEL BETTER ABOUT TAKING MINE FROM ME. I WILL DISCONTINUE MY 15 + YEARS OF SUPPORTING HYPERLITE\HO THIS SPRING. THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE OF PAUL OBRIENS ACTIONS HIMSELF. I WILL SOON BE RIDING ONE OF THE NEW GB BOARDS THIS SPRING AND FEELING BETTER ABOUT IT ALSO.
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-17-2004, 5:38 PM Reply   
Perhaps byerly designed it, but hadnt rode it up to then, that's why there were only 3, the werent still being produced in series.
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       01-17-2004, 6:32 PM Reply   
If Bouchard shaped it, you'd think he'd [scott] get a custom proto from him or something. Or perhaps it was just an excuse. Don't riders work on their shapes the season before they're released? Byerly should have been riding protos the whole summer, not a couple of months before they go into production and get shipped. Again, read Paul's interview on alliancewake.com--he said that he and grubb came up with their new wakeskates for 2005, so it's not like their board designs and prototypes are contrived at the last minute. But whatever...
Old    Itch (fullonsalesgrp)      Join Date: Jan 2004       01-17-2004, 7:28 PM Reply   
Mike check your private
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-17-2004, 8:21 PM Reply   
as a lurker on this thread (since i have nothing to contribute knowledge-wise to the discussion), im just putting in a post so i can easily get notified when it's updated.

and tomas, i went out yesterday and today (just filming, not riding as im on the i.r.), but i've had time to read this thread and i find this conversation interesting, especially (as always), electric snow's contributions. you can't ride all the time. and reading ain't a bad life skill to keep up on.
Old    bross            01-18-2004, 12:06 AM Reply   
Who is Herbie?
Who is Paul Obrien?
Who is Bouchard?
What was Badass?
I am sorry to ask such stupid questions, but if I don't ask then I won't know and this post will mean less to me. Right now I am debating about changing my setup from a Premier to a Gonzales so this column does influence my descision. Thanks.
Old    English (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       01-18-2004, 12:35 AM Reply   
Herbie (fletcher)- Is a very good surfboard shaper, but is the man who came out with some very innovative designs for wakeboards with his company, badass wakeboards.
Paul Obrien- Team manager for Hyperlite
Scott Bouchard- Know in wakeboarding as Scott byerly's board shaper.
Badass- started out as a binding company (under astrodeck surf grip) then moved on to making some very good wakeboards, which now most of the shapes are owned by Gator boards.
Old    hyperlytemaiden            01-19-2004, 6:22 PM Reply   
Byerly needed to approve the boards because prototypes have different buoyancy characteristics and such. The production model will always behave slightly different so I'm assuming Byerly needed to approve a production model before they went into mass production.
Old    mike hillard (otiswunguy)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2004, 9:41 PM Reply   
thanks michelle, i hadn't thought of it that way. I still have to call b.s. though considering i had seen two different pics at two different locations of the prototypes which look exactly the same as the production model, graphics and everything, about two to three months before i even got mine. He probably should have just let me keep the 04 byerly, it wasn't like i was trying to sell the design to competitors. The board was in stores like two weeks later and it didn't have any effect on sales. By him going around telling people that it was stolen from their warehouse, it in turn caused me to get more than one message accusing me of stealing it. that is what i get for riding ho/hyperlite for the last 15 years and wanting to share my newest prized hyperlite toy with my fellow wakeboarders. Congratulations on killing my stoke for hyperlite.
Old    maverick_gear            01-19-2004, 11:47 PM Reply   
buoyancy charactaristics my Ass, when paul got mad at mike i know for a fact there were a whole mess of those alrady pressed and another thing, Gator and all the posse saw byerlys new board almost a year earlier!!, if anyone wanted to steal the shape it would have been no problem, we knew so long in advance... the reason noone stole the idea is cause its a nightmare soo many of those break, not to say they arent killer wake to wake boards...
Old    bross            01-20-2004, 12:05 AM Reply   
Maverick,
Who are you and how do you assume to know so much behind the scene stuff?
Old    maverick_gear            01-20-2004, 12:31 AM Reply   
i have high friends in low places what do you want me to tell you the names and addresses of everyone i know in the industry i talk to?
Old    slideit            01-20-2004, 7:50 AM Reply   
maverick,
your boyz need better info, the board design was tweaked twice after the first mold was cut. my sistser knows the guy who knows the chic that knows the guy in the press room
lata
Old    Itch (fullonsalesgrp)      Join Date: Jan 2004       01-20-2004, 9:27 AM Reply   
People, people, people, Mave speaks the truth the byerly board was protoed and tested almost a year before mike had his run in with the dictator. Just keep in mind some of the best riders still are friends outside of thier sponcers, they ride together, and hang out together. It would be hard to keep quite about something like that. Some of us on the boards are conected and the boss and his captians let us know whats going on. They all almost all read these boards but feed the info through us.
Hyperlite has and always will be the leader. its kinda like budwiser. Gator is like a good micro brew dedicated to bettering the product not worried about the bullcrap.
ITCH
GB
Old    maverick_gear            01-20-2004, 11:44 AM Reply   
ya i agree they changed the mold but it happened almost a year before mike had his thing with tha boss, ITCH i totally agree. Thomas in case you haven't been paying attention gator and byerly are bros and have been forever.. thomas my boyz are your boyz boss! not gonna say which one but boss none tha less. and as far as hyperlite being the best i agree 100% they have the most money for R&D and can afford the top atheletes, they build killer stuff and i ride some of it. Ricky is one of tha coolest doods we have in our industry and one of the hardest working, people needed to quit hating cause of the image, and im stoked that people are now recognizing tha fact that ricky is riding his own shape acquired legally from its designer...
Old    bob_nydig            01-22-2004, 5:02 PM Reply   
Maverick, I also agree... But I don't think that Hyperlite has more money, I think that they just have a bigger credit limit on their visa.

-Bobby
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-22-2004, 5:08 PM Reply   
Maverick,

Just out of curiousity, if Ricky G's board is similar to Hyperlite Premier, and we know that the Premier shape was stolen from BadAss, how can Ricky G be riding his own shape?
Old    bob_nydig            01-22-2004, 5:12 PM Reply   
Maverick,
Did you know that Hyperlite made Badd Ass boards for a while? HMMM?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-22-2004, 6:08 PM Reply   
Bobby, you're a little late in the game. Read above.
Old    bob_nydig            01-22-2004, 6:12 PM Reply   
Joe,
Damn B... Why you gots to playa hate on the brother?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-22-2004, 6:23 PM Reply   
I'm not hatin' at all! I was simply leading you to the facts regarding Hyperlite and BadAss.

Hyperlite did NOT make BadAss boards.
Hyperlite DID press boards for BadAss using BadAss molds.
Hyperlite and BadAss had a verbal agreement that the BadAss molds would NOT be used to press Hyperlite boards.
Hyperlite broke the agreement.
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-22-2004, 6:56 PM Reply   
Joe's Back...
Old    maverick_gear            01-22-2004, 7:06 PM Reply   
joe you seem like your gettin a little umm frusterated have you ever considered going thru anger management therapy? cause ya know frustration is angers annoying little brother......
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-22-2004, 7:09 PM Reply   
It's kinda cool how you came to that conclusion, since;

a. you can't see emotions on the internet,
b. you don't even know me.

Shut up, Hahn! I'm not even back to full force yet!

(Message edited by dakid on January 22, 2004)
Old    maverick_gear            01-22-2004, 11:53 PM Reply   
Im just bustin the ol Testicles broham....
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-22-2004, 11:57 PM Reply   
Man...you've been hangin' w/ Hahn too much!

Just kidding man! Let's all hook up, for a brew or two.
Old    tj (iewc_vp)      Join Date: Aug 2001       01-23-2004, 12:55 PM Reply   
Does anyone think it is interesting that on such a widely read wakeboarding website, that HL has done no damage control? To me it seems as though they cannot dispute any of the above allegations. I am not saying they cannot or that BadAss and Gator are perfect but you would think that this kind of negative publicity would warrant some kind of PR. Anyone else think it needs to be addressed?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-23-2004, 12:58 PM Reply   
I don't think they'll ever address the issue, whether it's here or otherwise. If they were a struggling company, I would see it happening. But, since they're one of the industry leaders, I'm guessin' they don't care.
Old    tj (iewc_vp)      Join Date: Aug 2001       01-23-2004, 1:12 PM Reply   
Industry leader or not public opinion is something that is always important, unless your selling alcohol or tabacco. Then you just get your clients addicted and say screw everyone else.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-23-2004, 2:08 PM Reply   
", unless your selling alcohol or tabacco. Then you just get your clients addicted and say screw everyone else."

Sounds like Hyperlite to me.

JK!!
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       01-23-2004, 2:54 PM Reply   
I think there are several reasons why company representatives do not post on these discussion boards. The most common is a lack of resources. The wakeboarding industry is small. Therefore, every company in the industry is a small company, even Hyperlite. Hiring somebody dedicated to handling stuff like this can be cost prohibitive. I believe that every company should and soon will have somebody dedicated to this type of PR, but at this time, it's not a top priority for most companies..

I think we all remember how Brett Thurley from Tige got on this discussion board and fielded every question that was thrown at him. He addressed each person with respect and did the best he could to clear up any and all misunderstandings. Not everybody agreed with Brett, but I don't think there was a person here that did not respect him and appreciate the time he spent on the discussion boards. Not only did this establish Brett as a credible, upstanding guy, but it brought an enormous amount of credibility and respect to Tige and their products.

Another reason they don't post is that it requires them to constantly defend themselves against people (some of them anonymous) who have no valid gripe, have an axe to grind or just don't have their facts straight. These people sometimes come up with accusations geared toward getting a rise out a company's rep. This can be incredibly frustrating and if you don't have the right person responding, you could end up with a PR nightmare twice as big as if you had just not said anything at all. I think we've seen many examples of company representatives coming on the discussion boards and making absolute fools of themselves and staining the reputations of the companies they represent in the process.

Unfortunately, most companies view the free exchange of ideas on the discussion board as a bad thing. They choose to blame their lack of participation on the few bad apples that come on to stir up controversy, but we all know those are few and far between, especially on the WakeWorld discussion board. The fact is, once somebody gets on here and establishes a reputation, as Brett did, they don't have to worry about the loose cannons. The rest of the community knows who to listen to and who to disregard and, just like a family, they will tear into any outsider that comes in and tries to disrespect one of their own.
Old    tj (iewc_vp)      Join Date: Aug 2001       01-23-2004, 4:32 PM Reply   
What an incredibly insightful remark. Well stated and explained.

I LOVE YOU DAVID WILLIAMS!!!!
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       01-24-2004, 5:24 PM Reply   
I just wanted to add that when I started this thread I had absolutely no idea that all of this would pop out.

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