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Old    chrispy1            09-23-2003, 7:48 AM Reply   
Are all of you using digital video cameras? or do you use some other kind and transfer that onto the computer.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-23-2003, 7:54 AM Reply   
Most use digital but you don't have to. Depends on the software you use to capture and edit. All I have to say is, "don't buy Pinnacle Studio 8."
Old    upupnaway            09-23-2003, 7:57 AM Reply   
I use a sony digital8. I think they are fairly inexpensive right now, and the advantage is that you can pop in an 8mm tape that was recorded on an old camcorder and the digital8 will convert it and upload it into the computer without any extra steps.
Old    upupnaway            09-23-2003, 8:01 AM Reply   
http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=9024
This was made with Ulead video studio pro 6. The program is about 4 years old and came free with my $99 video capture card.
Old    Adam (bilbong30)      Join Date: Sep 2003       09-23-2003, 8:38 AM Reply   
Cool Vid Mike. I am in the process of making a video too with Ulead Video Studio. Good basic program and fairly easy to use.




Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-23-2003, 9:03 AM Reply   
Hey do you guys use any other storage besides wakepics?? They only except up to a 20 meg file. My current vid is 27.
Old    chrispy1            09-23-2003, 11:06 AM Reply   
awesome. and saying don't buy Pinnacle Studio 8 , is that to mean that it is good , just find other means of obtaining it, or it is not worth it.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-23-2003, 12:17 PM Reply   
Pinnacle is a nightmare. I think they forgot to do some testing before they released. Corrupt files, install probs, file rendering probs, and really shidy support
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-23-2003, 1:56 PM Reply   
Pinnacle studio 8 is a very picky program that crashes 99% of the time. I anybody is looking for a very stable program I suggest Vegas Video 4.0 from Sonic Foundry. It much more easy to use then the Adobe Premiere product. The only advantage to pinnacle is that it came with a capture card that captures analog video and converts it to digital video on the computer. However there are other cards that do it too. I suggest anybody looking to buy software to check out www.cnet.com and look at the consumer ratings of the ones you are intersted in. It is a great way to know what you are getting into before you shell out the cash!!
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       09-23-2003, 2:52 PM Reply   
Have any of you tried Videowave 5? I have been using Premier and Videowave 5. For entry level users Videowave 5 seems pretty simple to use.
Old    Jeremy (shutupandboard)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-24-2003, 6:20 AM Reply   
J-rod: Dude looks like you gave up on pinnacle.:-)
It used to mess up alot for me also. I still LOVE it though. Not that i'll keep using it Forever. But i haven't had a crash in like 20 full videos (knocks on wood) and i've made some 2 hour wedding videos with full 3-d effects. The big thing that has me lovin studio 8 right now is that i just got a DVD BURNER. I'm making dvds using studio 8 with full motion menues, that have links to other full motion menues and i have not made a coaster yet (knocks really hard on wood). I've only made about 20 dvd's so far so we'll see how it goes. I hope pinnacle doesn't make me eat my words.
Old    smitty98            09-24-2003, 7:06 AM Reply   
What's the deal with digital video cameras?

Do they actually record onto digital media or still use the old tape? (just a salesman told me that and i don't always believe them)

Ive seen some that use both. But the cards they put them on are so small. Can u transfer videos from the tape to the computer?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-24-2003, 8:10 AM Reply   
The cards are for the stills. Digital cams still use tapes. You plug in and the computer captures your video footage.
Old    upupnaway            09-24-2003, 10:47 AM Reply   
Depends on what you are looking at, Adam. A digital 8 records digitally, and on some cameras analog as well, onto an 8mm tape. You get 1 hour digital or 2 hours analog on a typical digital 8 tape.
DV cameras record on a hard disk.
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       09-24-2003, 10:55 AM Reply   
Almost all DV cameras record on tape, but it's still digitally recorded. The important thing about that is you can transfer video from the camera to a PC and back to the camera and there is no generational loss (meaning no loss of quality) since it stays digital the whole time.

The DV cameras that don't use tape use a small rewritable DVD disk. An example is the Sony DCR-DVD200 DVD HandycamŽ Camcorder, which uses a 3" DVD-RW for recording both video and stills.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-24-2003, 10:59 AM Reply   
Maybe some DV cameras. I have a brand new digital mini DV-103 which records on tape.
Old    upupnaway            09-24-2003, 11:12 AM Reply   
Oh, yeah, the mini dv tape.....forgot about that.
My bad.
Bill j is right though, no loss with the digital.

Question for everyone... When you export, do you ever wind up with glitches? I can only export about 5 min. at a time before I lose a frame. I think my buffer runs low. I have an older pentium 3, 833mHz, is that my prob?
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       09-24-2003, 11:25 AM Reply   
I've captured almost an hour of video at once without loss of a single frame. But then I have a relatively new PC - 2.4G P4, 768M RAM, 240G disk, Win XP.

Make sure your hard drive is defragmented and there is plenty of free space before capturing video. It's a good idea to pick up a 2nd hard drive just for video and you can find 80GB drives for under $100. XP is much better than Win98 since NTFS formatted drives support HUGE files. Older versions of Windows using FAT have a maximum file size of 2GB, which is only about 10 minutes of DV video.

Also, if you don't have a lot of RAM then add more since it's really cheap these days. 512MB min.
Old    upupnaway            09-24-2003, 11:33 AM Reply   
Ahhh, I only have 256 of ram, and your processor is 3 times faster than mine. I edit to compensate for the drops. I will not go any longer than 4 min. without a few dark frames (fade or cut). At least the export programs let you start and stop by frame, or I would be out o' luck.
Old    toolfan (toolfan)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-24-2003, 12:00 PM Reply   
As a full time video editor, I'll say that Hi8 is crap. not worth looking at in my opinion.

To clear up someones question, true digital media can be stored on tape (ex. miniDV, which is good quality). For something to be digital, it does NOT have to be stored on a DVD or CDROM to be digital.

I personally use an AVID MediaComposer with the Adrenaline system and Mojo at work. But I have a Avid DV system at my house. It only cost about $2500 and it doubles as my everyday computer.

Everyone needs to learn how to use compressed video formats. Uncompressed media (1:1) take up entirely too much room. Learn which codecs work best for your system. The only time i use true uncompressed media is when I am making a show for TV. If I am making a non-work related movie (wedding, graduation, party, etc.), I will compress it using the AVID codec, then decompress it when it is time to put it to tape or DVD. Saves alot of room. The loss in quality is not noticable at all.

If anyone needs any help with editting stuff, drop me a line.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-24-2003, 1:33 PM Reply   
Toolfan, I have to disagree with you in your statement that hi8 is crap. I have made numerous videos with mine and they are fine in quality. I transfer them to the computer uncompressed. The card and program converts them to digital. Then I edit them and render the project in a minimaly compressed avi using a digital video codec. Then I render them to a mpg2 format for svcd using theTmpgnc program. It is fast and the results are outstanding for the person not wanting to spend huge money on cameras and software. The video quality is just fine for t.v viewing and for posting on the internet. I can post a video on the net from my hi8 and compare it to a digital camcorder video and the net ready video will be the same in viewing quality.
Old    swass            09-24-2003, 1:56 PM Reply   
Compared to Avid, anything's a piece of crap, but you're not really comparing apples to apples.
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-24-2003, 2:35 PM Reply   
Yes, a Sony trv-900 (3ccd) and a PC101 (1 ccd)

The best part about digital is no generation loss when you transfer it from the camera to the computer and then back again.

If money is a concern check out the digital 8's they offer a firewire port so transferring video to your computer is a breeze!

Take your time, do the research, use the sites, and save yourself some cash:
http://www.resellerratings.com/
-or -
www.froogle.com







Old    smitty98            09-24-2003, 7:33 PM Reply   
Ok, i see that they use tape, but to transfer to the computer, does it 'play' it on the camera and sends the frames across to the computer, or does it send it like one big file like on my dig still?
Old    Jeremy (shutupandboard)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-24-2003, 9:40 PM Reply   
You PLAY a mini-dv tape to capture it to your hard drive.
BTW I got a 120 gig hardrive for $107. Western digital 7200 rpm, 8 mb cache. At newegg.com.
Here: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=14&manu factory=1306&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1
There's a 120 gig harddrive for $94 but it's only a 2mb cache right below it is the 120 with the 8 mb cache for $112. Free shipping
Old    renegade            09-25-2003, 2:55 AM Reply   
canon gl2.....editing with Final Cut Pro..only way to go
Old    upupnaway            09-25-2003, 8:33 AM Reply   
As far as camera formats go, The sony DCR-TRV27 mini dv, $999.99, and the sony DCR-TRV740 digital 8 $799.99 have the exact same specs picture wise, with one exception. the dv has a manual and auto white balance, the 740 has an auto white balance.
They are both 1070000 pixels per ccd as compared to 320000 on a higher end hi8 camera.
If you want better picture quality than these, be prepared to go over $2,000.

Bottom line, Hi8 is low quality, but you can get any of the top brand names for under $300,
Mini Dv and Digital 8 offer the same image quality for under a grand, and they have the same capabilities, with one difference. The digital 8 will let you import your old hi8 vids to the computer by just popping them in and playing them. (you can get a higher quality miniDv for 1500 and up, but there is not a significant difference until you get between 2000 or 2500.)

Most video capture cards come with free software, I would try that first and see if it offers you what you need. I bought adobe premiere and don't really like it. I still use the freebies.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-25-2003, 8:41 AM Reply   
Here's one I just did in Pinnacle Studio 8. Wakepics only takes like an 18 meg file, so I couldn't share anything with better quality.

http://www.wakepics.com/img/9113

After reinstalling the program 6 times, multiple patches, and 3 hours of phone support (2 hours on hold) this was the result.

Old    upupnaway            09-25-2003, 8:52 AM Reply   
sweet riding. whats up with the audio though? Really loud and it was clipping. or it could just be my p.o.s. computer.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-25-2003, 9:03 AM Reply   
Really?? It's been playing cool for me. I'll check it out. Did you download it, or did you play it from wakepics?
Old    toolfan (toolfan)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-25-2003, 1:15 PM Reply   
I hate to venture away from the subject of this tread, but the best way to get good footage is to have a "good" camera(contrary to some people's beliefs Hi8,not digital 8, sucks) and learn to use it. I shoot my random stuff with what i call a good camera, a canon GL2 or XLS. they are a little expensive but they are what i would call good cameras, not awesome cameras.

Elliot said it best, the GL2 is a kick@ss camera for the money. Ditto for the XLS. I have aired footage on ESPN2 that has been shot with these cameras.

What I mean by "learning your camera" is being able to shoot stuff WITHOUT using the automatic settings. Automatic settings suck, if you know how to shoot everything on manual. It takes ALOT of practice but well worth it. Take the time to learn your camera. Practice in every light situation possible. Particularly from shade to light and light to shade.

I realize that many people cant tell the difference from Hi8 to Digital8 but some can. My mom cant tell the difference between DVD and VHS. To her its just a picture on the screen. She still asks me if you have to rewind DVDs before you take them back to Blockbusters......sorry mom.

Botton line is.....DONT USE AUTOMATIC. USE YOUR MANUAL SETTINGS. but with software these days you can, using the words of a wise man, polish a turd.
Old    upupnaway            09-26-2003, 2:14 PM Reply   
True that. Filming a wakeboarder is one of the easiest way to learn your manual skills because the rider is almost always the exact same distance away.

J-rod, I played it from wake pics. I guess that would be the prob.

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