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Old    whitechocolate            05-16-2003, 8:36 AM Reply   
Let's see or hear some of Your Idea's that you think would be great products for people like yourself. Maybe some one will see something and start a new business, Come on your never going to go into business you "Lazy Ass" . Don't be afraid to list things we don't need any more of. I ll give you a just few Examples"

1. A rope holder/reel something that reel's up the rope quickly and easy like a hose reel at youíre house but much smaller and can be tucked away keeps the ropes for being all tangled

2. A automatic flag holder something Like the Power flag but doesnít cost $800

3. Pre-made tower covers. Something to cover your tower when towing' keep the bugs off. I know Hot Buddy has a $600 one. Can some one make on for cheaper that looks nicer??

Thing's we don't need any more of:

1. Do we really need another Bungee cord Wakeboard rack? I mean thereís like 1000 to chose from and theyíre sort of all the same! The Nvert and Mastercraft rack's are the Only clamping style racks out there?? Why? I could go on and on but why.

Simply put look at the market. There are like Thousands of Board's to choose from. The market is covered. And I still see people trying to start small wakeboard companies why? You can still love the sport by making something else. Why try to compete in a market thatís kind of flooded, Why not try making something that's not out there? with Little or No compition, Innovate not Imitate.
Old    hlboatsnboards            05-16-2003, 9:35 AM Reply   
is this a "things you need" list or a "things you want for less money" list!?!?!? HAHAH!! just kidding bro.

Looking for ideas that are not thought of yet that could be put into use by a manufactuer. Things like autopilot!! LOL!!

Old    damnation            05-16-2003, 11:14 AM Reply   
All the things you have listed already exist. I guess your main complaint is price, right? For a cheaper price, make it yourself. For example, I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to make a tower cover. I guess you may be a little embarrassed while you are in the fabric store picking out the right material and colors.

I've been thinking recently that the wakeboarding market is strange. It really entices people to start small businesses; moreso than other sports. I wonder why that is.
Old    whitechocolate            05-16-2003, 11:43 AM Reply   
Yes: Im sure everything I listed Exist, And Yes it would be better if it was cheeper, And Yes I do make lot of things myself (check my website on my profile) We will use the Nvert rack's for Example why is there only 1 company making these clamping style racks, and like 100 companys making the bungee cord racks, Why is there only one company making the Power flag? and like 50 company's makeing towers. why is there like 20 companys making ropes and handles and only like 2 companys making the wind up Rope reel, Is there no Market for any of these products. I don't know Im just asking? any of you know or understand It would be great. I do relize that things cost money Im not cheep by any mean's look at my set up I throw money at it all the time. Mabey if companys stoped trying to Imitate each outher design's and insted come up with new thing's that there are few of the price would indeed come.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       05-16-2003, 12:02 PM Reply   
it is not that there is not a market for the products, but rather they have not created a big demand because they have priced the product way too high. The flag holder/raiser, the skireel and the newer clamping racks are a great idea, but I feel there will never be a high demand because the price is just insane. Paying more for a rack then the board itself is worth is nuts.
Old    whitechocolate            05-16-2003, 12:23 PM Reply   
Andrew: Good Point
Old    Phaeton (phaeton)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-16-2003, 12:53 PM Reply   
High quality marine stereo with Remote, Wired Remote, Changer controls and Satelite.

Another feature all stereos should have is an adjustable max volume control. That way you just crank it and it stops at the selected volume you preset.

I want a button on my TV that I can push and the remote beeps so I can find the damn thing.

CD,DVD,VHS cases that when they start to get to hot turn red so you know to get them out of the sun.

Grant I don't get the clamping board racks in the first place. What is wrong with the bungee ones?
Old    wakedad            05-16-2003, 1:33 PM Reply   
Grant, I saw another power flag when I was at the Nautique dealer. It's $100 and looks like a power car antenna. There were 2 models, one went in a fitting that looks like the mount for the white anchor light, slide the door open and push a button. The other mounted in the bottom of a cup holder, just make sure your drink is not in there when you push the button. I thought the metal antenna looked like it would get bent or broken pretty quick in a moving boat.
Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       05-16-2003, 1:34 PM Reply   

I think Hot Buddy dropped there prices to either 450 or 500 -its not much but thought i'd let ya know~
Old    damnation            05-16-2003, 2:00 PM Reply   
Well, the good news is that the companies that are simply copying other peoples' designs will eventually fail. Basically it stems from unoriginal people trying to start a business. They might as well be on wellfare. After looking at your profile, I'm sure you do make a lot of things yourself. I've got a few ideas you can work on for me if you have some spare time .

Phaeton, I think they sell a remote finder at Home Depot or Wal-mart or some place like that. The problem is that it has it's own remote. If you lose that I guess you're really screwed.

What's up Aaron? How are things in Disco Bay? I guess I'll see you guys in September at BS '03.
Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       05-16-2003, 2:10 PM Reply   
Hey Hey Dave!!!! Things are good if I could stop working 10/12 hour days. Weather iss finally starting to warm up, delta is empty on the weekdays and starting to pick up on the weekends now.

We have already dropped $600 on the reservations -same sites as last year, video screens, raffles, dj's, kegs, Looking forward to it!
Old    damnation            05-16-2003, 2:38 PM Reply   
Good to hear! I know what you mean about work. I have been working around 70 hrs/wk since January. Good thing it is starting to slow down a little now.

I guess I better make my reservations soon! I'm looking forward to it!
Old    whitechocolate            05-16-2003, 3:44 PM Reply   
JMS (WakeDad) I would like to get some More Info on the Flag you were talking about !
Old    smwakeboarder            05-16-2003, 5:04 PM Reply   
i need a beeping remote too, like on phones how they have a p[age button put on eon the tv for the remote

i know this has nothing to do with the subject but it is a good idea
Old    kiwi            05-17-2003, 12:43 AM Reply   
Please excuse my ignorance as I'm from New Zealand and we don't have some of these wierd rules ;
But can you tell me what the hell is a power flag and whats it used for?
Old    skionone            05-17-2003, 7:21 AM Reply   
They got this law on the West Coast that you have to have a flag go up once the skier is down. So there is this power flag that someone made that cost WAY TOO MUCH. You just push the button and the flag goes up, push the button and the flag goes down.
I think they make you wear AK1 life vest at all times also
Old    jdr            05-17-2003, 7:52 AM Reply   
Okay. Iím going to play the devilís advocate for a minute. Letís look at this from a business perspective. What if I have an idea for the latest and greatest wakeboard boat ďwidgetĒ. For arguments sake, letís assume it is a product that every wakeboard boat owner would want and could afford no matter if they had a $5k boat or a $65K boat. How many of these new widgets could I expect to sell? What I am getting at is how many wakeboard boats are out there? Now, letís assume I also have a concept for the latest and greatest bass boat widget that would have the same parameters as the wakeboard boat widget. How many of these could I expect to sell? Letís also assume that I can make the exact same profit off of both products, but I can only manufacture & market one of them. In which product am I most likely to have the largest return on investment? As much as I hate to admit it, it would probably be from the bass boat widget. In a nut shell, I am saying that to us in the sport, wakeboard boat products seem like a huge business with millions of items sold. In the market place, however, we are the minority. How many wakeboard boats are produced/sold each year? How many bass boats? So, if someone is going to produce, say a tower sock, they know that it is not something they will sell in huge quantities; therefore the price must be higher. Call up that tower sock manufacturer and tell them you will personally guarantee that they can sell 100,000 of them in the next 12 months. They will significantly op their price immediately. Call up a board rack manufacturer and tell them you can see 100,000 clamp style board racks in the next 12 months, they will design/make it for you. Again, unfortunately, in the market place wakeboard boats/products are the minority.
Old    wakedad            05-17-2003, 4:49 PM Reply   
Grant, I'll try to run by the dealer again and get a name, maybe a website or something and let you know. It won't be until Tuesday at the earliest.
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-18-2003, 10:22 AM Reply   
Relative to other marine markets like bass boats, wakeboard boats is still a very young and small market. The new NVert and X-Star style racks are innovations, and we can all expect with as many enthusiasts that are out there with companies, there will be exciting new innovations coming all the time.

The bungee racks are still great ways to get the boards out of the boat to make some room, and maybe the new innovations will drive the price of those down?

We're always looking for new products to bring to market and have quite a few on the design board today. Please post anything you would like to have and we'll put it on our "to do" list for products we want to do in the future.

This is a small market which is the only reason you have not seen huge companies come in, there's not enough money in the market, at least yet.

Old    whitechocolate            05-18-2003, 11:50 AM Reply   
Jay I totaly understand your point and agree With you , I know that you know that most people get into making wakeboard stuff not for the thought of making money but the thought of doing what they Love and making a little money while doing it. Who want's to spend there free time starting a Small company doing somthing they Hate for little or no money. What I was trying to get across was If your a small company why would you waste your time and money making things that we already Have.
I think the example of Tower Manafactures will work here, Isnt there enought tower makers out there Do we realy Need another Tower! (No Offence to Monster Tower He has somthing Diffrent and innovative) Inexpencieve Quality folding towers, Cool I mean if it's way diffrent by alot then go for it, But if it's pretty much the same, It seems like everytime I ope the Pages of Wakeboarding there a New Tower company making some tower, you think people would be actually doing more harm to the sport then good buy flooding the market and causing more smaller companys to fight for the same dollar. If you took away 2 or 3 small Wakeboard company's and turned them into making some of the products that we are talking about and things no one has thought of, filling a need that no one is filling do you think they would do better or worse??? Nvert is a good example of that. So is Hot Buddy,
Old    Ryan (ocrider)      Join Date: Dec 2001       05-19-2003, 12:30 AM Reply   

More companies making towers is actually better for the sport. You see each company that gets into the game has to do something a little different to stand out from the crowd. That could be something as simple as using stainless steel instead of aluminum, or making it face backwards instead of forwards. The point being that the more competition there is, the more innovative AND cheaper products will come out. If you look at the early days of towers, they were crap. Partly because no one knew what they were doing, and partly because those few companies had no reason to improve the towers. People were buying them for lack of choices and those companies knew it(also known as a monopoly). Now you have a company like Monster making a similar tower to Titan, but guess what it's less than half the cost. While it might look similar, cutting the cost in half is certainly innovative. Maybe Bill stumbled across a cheap supply of material, a super-efficient pipe-bender, or really cheap labor. Whatever he did was innovative enough to make a difference.

When multiple companies get into making a specific product, the end result will always be cheaper products for the customer (and usually better, but not always). So you should be happy about it and encourage it!

A company like Boss for example made really expensive speaker canisters when they were the only game in town and now you have companies like Mako making a great canister for less money AND it comes with acoustic lining...something Boss has never done (and they raise their prices every year).

The underlying factor in all of this though (to address one of your earlier posts) is that people like you and me keep buying the stuff. If everyone stopped buying bungee-corded board racks, people would stop making them...but they don't! Everyone might appear to imitate everyone else, but every board-rack has something slightly unique about it, no matter how small or trivial that difference is. I am making new board racks right now that use bungee-cords, but I had a custom-rubber extrusion made so that I could wrap rubber completely around every inch of the board rack and lock it in place. No more worries about that thin little piece of rubber coming out everytime you put the board in. I also made the gap in the bottom half of the rack bigger so you could fit a wake-surfboard or a wakeskate with the thick padding into it. So I use bungee cords, I still added some innovations didn't I?

Another important point about their being so many tower manufacturers is that towers can be heavy, awkward, and expensive to ship so there are a lot of tower companies that are regional. Since there are so many areas with wakeboard boats, it isn't a bad move to open a tower company where there is no other. There are so many different styles and shapes of boats that you can't easily commoditize a boat tower and make it fit everything. Some people need to bring it somewhere to know that it is being installed correctly, or they want to know they have somewhere they can go if there are problems. What do you do with a mail-order tower when you have problems with it?

Old    MATT (mattbob)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-19-2003, 5:42 AM Reply   
I want hard ballast tanks under the front cushions of the bow. Maybe a large ballast tank that fit in an open bow where the bow filler goes. Who needs a ski locker, make a large tank that fits in the locker and is incorperated into the bow filler tank.
I would also like to see a manufacturer get together with a board company. They have Sammy Duvall edition ski boats. Why not a Byerly edition wakeboard boat? It could have special graphics that match the board.
Old    Cary Kalamajka (ndh2o)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-19-2003, 7:03 AM Reply   
Fear of flaming and boat wars aside, Centurion is making a Brett Eisenhower edition boat this year with his signature BE graphic on it, just like his board.
Old    cws_kahuna            05-19-2003, 7:50 AM Reply   
I was just about to post the same thing, you beat me to the punch. To go with the Brett Eisenhauer Centurion, Skier's Choice has the Gravity Games package on Moomba and Supra boats, as well as Correct Craft's Team Edition. There may be others out there as well. One thing to keep in mind is Wakeboard specific boats are still fairly new, X-stars, Wakesetters, and Super Airs were the start of our own style boats, I think we will start to see more special packages in the future to lure in new/old buyers. I would not be surprised to see a Parks package X-Star for example.
Old    Cary Kalamajka (ndh2o)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-19-2003, 10:00 AM Reply   
I don't think it was an "official" package, but the 02 X-Star with the Metallic Burgundy (Red?) full paint scheme and stainless tower was dubbed the Parks edition. I think only because this was the boat that he had. It was a beauty, and I think there is one on FlipSell for sale for about $60K !!! Too rich for my blood, but it is bad.
Old    matt (supraman)      Join Date: Jan 2002       05-19-2003, 11:33 AM Reply   
In response to MATTBOB's post, Supra does just what you've suggested, with an enormous center ballast sack that starts where the "ski locker" is and goes to the tip of the bow. You can order a sack to go up there that holds 900 pounds. It's part of the factory installed automatic ballast system.
Old    chris_hargis            05-19-2003, 12:00 PM Reply   
Here is what I would like to see. An adjustable board rack. My son wakeboardes and his board is too small to fit properly in my Joystick rack. Even with the bindings all the way out, it is still too narrow. It would be nice if you could get a board rack that the top prongs would adjust in some for smaller boards. I have been considering getting a ski rack to put my wife's slalom ski and my son's wakeboard in.
Old    swpmwinc            05-19-2003, 2:01 PM Reply   
From what I am gathering everybody wants the same things that are allready made just cheaper.
You can only bring down the cost of things so much and then it no longer makes sense to make them. Board racks are the prime example retail prices are about 275.00 on average I would say.So that means the manufacturer is probally charging the retailer about 175.00 so the retailer makes 100.00 to floor the item,pay for shipping,and pay out the overhead. Thats not a whole lot of profit on either side.
Old    WakePro (skireel)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-20-2003, 6:40 PM Reply   
I'll be one manufacturer to jump in the mix. We are a start up who makes the Skireel WakePro that adjusts the rope length while you ride. It also reels the rope completely in when youre done. R and D, insurance, patents and advertising/promotional mandate I charge between $500 and $900 per unit if I want to make any money. At this point, area reps are out of the question becuase they want 20% to 40% of the cut. This is our first year to actually sell our product and unless my product liability insurance, print ad costs, and manufacturing costs go down, $500 to $900 depending on options is what Skireel has to charge. What do you do?
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       05-21-2003, 8:42 AM Reply   
Wow the Skireal seems pretty cool. Though I don't think I would spend that much on that type of product, I guess it comes down to priorities for the buck. If I can pull a rope in without to much hassle, for free by hand, then it comes down to how much the convenience is worth to you. Everybody has to weigh that for their own needs.

That is some undertaking to bring a product to the market like that. How do you decide on your price point? What I mean by that, is you will make money at the price you list in your post, but how many will you sell at that price? If you drop the price, get the volume up and the visibility up, which will sell more units, at what point will you make a profit and be better for the long term? That must be a tough decision for you, and a gamble to a point. That is why I have never had a problem with people making good money "profit" when they develope and sell a product, look at Bill Gates, people have a probelem with him making so much money, but he could have just as easily gone bankrupt and been ruined for life. Risk takers should be rewarded when they hit on a product. Because not many do. I admire you for taking it on, it seems once you get the snowball rolling things take off. But it is very hard to do, or everybody would be doing it. I wish you luck!

Of course if the ball starts rolling and word gets out, it's amazing how people all of a sudden have a need for a product. Like I need 3 1000 watt amps in my boat! LOL Not..... but everybody has it, so I need it!!!!

Again good luck, and congratulations on the R & D a product like that takes.

Old    Phaeton (phaeton)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-21-2003, 11:22 AM Reply   
I also want a house boat like a weekend warrier. The engine in the front. The rear has a huge door that you drive your boat in a raise it on a lift. That way you can keep two boats in one slip.
Old    Alex Holden (nautiair)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-21-2003, 2:00 PM Reply   
I want more drink holders for the driver in my 02 sante...... one is not enough
Old    Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-21-2003, 3:00 PM Reply   
I want the stereo to have a sensor for the throttle so I can have several automatic volume settings: one for idle, another for wakeboard speed, and a third for cruise.

As for Grant's wish list:

Ski reels have existed for a LONG time. I have several, never use them.

Hose clamp a short length of PVC pipe to a vertical section of the tower. Rider falls, pick up the flag and stick it in the pipe. It will hold the flag just fine, not any more trouble than hitting a switch, will never break down and costs a lot less than $800.

Tower covers: anyone who can sew could make you a tower cover. Get friendly with a chick who owns a sewing machine. About $40 for two yards of canvas, $12 for a 6 foot zipper, a spool of heavy nylon thread and about 20 minutes and you are all set.

Phaeton: Regarding your houseboat idea: forget the houseboat engine, use the ski boat! I actually saw a houseboat like this once. The "main salon" of the houseboat was a boat slip. To drive the housboat around the owner docked his ski boat and used it as the engine.

Old    Air Besar (airbesar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-21-2003, 3:25 PM Reply   
I want boat manufacturers to offer an option to run a heater hose to the aft storage compartment where you stash the vests between rides. When you put on your vest for the second or third ride, it might be wet but it won't be cold.

RVs, houseboats and camper rigs all have motors, kitchens and some sort of toilet shower deal. I want a manufacturer to come up with a system where you can use all of those components in a camper or RV and then slide them out and insert them in a houseboat.
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       05-21-2003, 3:35 PM Reply   
Yes more cup holders, the last time I was pulled over, I had a beer in the holder, one between my legs, and one between my feet. Yes ser offissser@*@* It really sucked. Plus the beer gets warm fast that way. Ok just kidding, I am glad to have one nearby, my old Sport Bowrider didn't even have one near the driver. That really sucked.
Old    bigd            05-21-2003, 3:40 PM Reply   
I want a bimini top with a built in solar panel for the cover so I can anchor the boat and run the stereo all day and let the sun keep the batteries charged up...
Old    whitechocolate            05-21-2003, 4:06 PM Reply   
1.BigD Great Idea!!! That would be the Shizzzz

2.Alex Holden. I second and thrird you on that

What I was thinking was a Beer/cup holder that would sink down into the gunnel and keep the beer out of the sun and away from the eyes of the Lake Police and would rase up like a Missle out of the ground! with the push of a button. Ha
Old    bigd            05-21-2003, 4:27 PM Reply   
I got the idea while sitting on the throne reading the West Marine catalog...
Old    tig            05-22-2003, 11:50 AM Reply   
Individual fill controls for ballast systems so you can add a few gallons of water to shape the wake on a particular side.
Old    WakePro (skireel)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-22-2003, 12:09 PM Reply   
J French,
Usually, an upstart manufacturer like Skireel has to set the price by adding up materials cost, assembly cost, and adding a margins that absorbs marketing insurance etc. When you add this all up, this is your internal cost. The retailer and reps then want a % to carry or sell the product, that is dealer cost, then they add the premium and that is retail. We are skipping the dealers and reps at this point and selling at cost plus profit margin. One good point you make is that once the product is adopted, the cost will come down because "economies of scale" takes over. By the way, the Skireel WakePro reels riders IN and OUT while the boat is towing them, pretty hard to do by hand!

Old    matt_dettman            05-23-2003, 6:41 AM Reply   

We have installed several of the solar panels on boats out at Lake Mead. We mounted them on the tower just to trickle charge the battery while the boats sits in the slip. We used velcro straps to hold them. Seems to be working fine.

I suppose a guy could come up with a rubber mounting system on top of the tower to isolate the panels from the tower while running through rough water. Anybody got some time in their hands?
Old    Coinless (bruce)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-23-2003, 7:59 PM Reply   
How about a platfom that would tilt towards the transom so you can get your bindings on easier?
Old    bigdaddy            05-24-2003, 12:40 AM Reply   
How about a mirror bracket for your tower that isn't overpriced by about 1000%?


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