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Old    wakelvr            05-05-2003, 4:52 PM Reply   
Wanted to discuss this issue now that Iíve had a chance to try different scenarios with weighing down our X2. I know we have discussed this before, and some of you are probably sick of repeating yourselves. Sorry, Iím still trying to figure things outÖ

I feel like if we place any more weight in our X2, it would be overkill. Our wake was really nice yesterday. Although at some points it seemed almost like a brick wall. But, after reading other posts Iíve noticed that some people are putting more weight than we are into their x2ís/xstars. Iím trying to figure out why people use more weight and how it effects the shape of the wake and the handling of your boat. So any feedback or comments and suggestions on this issue would be very much appreciated.

For one, what is your recipe?
Is your wake rounded or peaky?
Any problems with the boat planing out?
Any porpoising? If so, is it normal when boat is heavily weighed down, or is it a distribution problem?
Any problems maneuvering your boat or driving double-ups?
Any problems arise as a result of placing too much weight in the boat? (be honest here, I know it happens).

Lastly, when you apply more weight in the back and less in front, the wake will be more peaky/verticalÖ Correct? Iíve been told this over and over again, however, recently Iíve been hearing the opposite (more weight in bow equals more vertical peak). Which is true? Can anyone elaborate on how the wake changes shape depending on where you place the weight?

Here is how we weighed our boat yesterday, and the wake was enormous. We did have some bow rise, but the boat planed out in a matter of seconds. We also had 6 people in our boat yesterday. We ride with 4-6 people usually. I know this will make a difference in the wake as well.

REAR LOCKER I 250 lb hard tank plus 300 lb sac
REAR LOCKER II 250 lb hard tank plus 300 lb sac
SKI LOCKER 400 lb sac (standard ballast)
BOW 480 lbs (combined sac and lead)

Anyone else have this similar recipe?

Thanks for your time!
Old    wilson (3puttwilson)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-05-2003, 5:22 PM Reply   
How fast were you riding and what rope length?
My x2 set up
540 lb sac in each rear locker
400 lb sac standard ballast in ski locker
540 lb sac in the bow
It takes a little longer than I would like to get on plane. Also, the wake washed out a bit Saturday when we slowed down to 21, 22 mph(new rider to our group). We usually ride at 75' and 23-23.5 mph.
Old    wakelvr            05-05-2003, 5:35 PM Reply   
Wilson:

It sounds like you are using just a little more weight than I am in the front (60lbs). But, we are pretty darn close if you compare our recipes. We all ride between 22 and 24 and use anywhere from a 60-80 ft line. But you are right, the wake will wash out at slower speeds. I think it's typical though for boats that are weighed down. So if we have a beginner we usually drain the back a little until the wake cleans up.

So that is a good point. I'm curious to know.... for those of you that weigh your boat more than wilson and I, what speeds do you ride at?

Also, Wilson... I tried emailing you back today and got an error message (something about a bad IP address)? So, I will try again from my home computer later today.
Old    Whit (whit)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-05-2003, 5:50 PM Reply   
Once you get over 2000lb, I've always found you have to go at least 23mph. More weight in the middle of the boat does a better job of pushing the entire hull into the water. Your boat will perform better and the wake should be crisp, even at lower speeds.

My favorite setup:

400lbs in the rear (200lbs on each side in the back.)
150lbs in the sitting area.
150lbs under the dash
400lbs in the bow (200lbs on each side in the bow.)

1200lbs total.

The three plates in the sitting area are to be moved to balance the wake. Then the wake can be stepped up by filling the KGB.

350lb center sack. (I always thought it was a 40 gallon sac.)
400lb rear tanks. (200lbs each side--24 gallon tanks)

If 1950lbs still isn't big enough--fill a 500lb sac in the walk way. The sac won't fill all way, but it will give you another 350 to 400lbs. You could put another sac on top of the center sac, but you better know how to drive/hopefully your lake is not too deep...
Old    Whit (whit)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-05-2003, 6:02 PM Reply   
Missed some of the questions. If your boat is porpoising it is a sign you have too much weight in the rear. I had too much weight in the rear a few weekends ago and everything about the boat was wrong--wouldn't plane, porpoised, and handled like crud.

Depending on the rider speeds are between 22 and 23.7, with rope lengths from 65' to 80'.

Once you get close to and over the 2000lb line you better know how to drive the boat. I tend to think if you like to throw the boat in reverse to slow down you are going to burn through your tranny pretty quick. Taking water over the bow is also a really bad idea.

Malibu's seem to handle huge amounts of weight much better. I've seen Malibu's with 3000lbs and the wake looks like a giant mogul. (The double up looks like two Volkswagen Bug crashing.)
Old    wilson (3puttwilson)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-05-2003, 7:20 PM Reply   
Stefani,
Hey, that's ok on the email. I'm not sure why it didn't go through.
I think our set up is pretty much the way to go. I personally wouldn't want the wake any bigger and I think you would have to ride too fast to clean it up if you added more weight than we have. I'll have to drain the rear bags some when more people are in the boat.

Whit-I assume you mean putting it in reverse when you are picking up a rider that's getting back in the boat. I've never heard anyone say that could mess up the tranny before.
Old    wakelvr            05-05-2003, 8:06 PM Reply   
Thanks for your input Whit. Your first suggestion has about the same amount of weight as my recipe (a little more). But you do have it distributed differently. And no, there is no way I'm adding another 500lbs on top of that. Ha,ha, that is just insane!

The boat handled great yesterday and planed just fine. BUT, it did porpoise at one point when we went searching for better water.

Wilson, I also can't see us putting more weight in the boat. Maybe we'll adjust depending on how many people we ride with. But, I do know that I don't want to increase my speed beyond 23 miles per hour. OUCH!

So how does the weight distribution effect the shape of the wake? More in bow = more ramp/roundness? More in back = more peak?
Old    MATT (mattbob)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-06-2003, 7:51 AM Reply   
We loaded up our X-Star with people this weekend. Roughly adding it up I think we had about 3000lbs of weight with the ballast and people. The boat planed fairly quick (about like a loaded SANTE I rode). The boat drove fine. Didn't turn as tight and manuvering around a rider in the water wasn't as easy, but it was very driveable. I didn't think you could take water over the bow of an X-star. Somehow I managed to take a small spash one time. I think it could have handled more weight, but more than 500lbs more would be pushing it. The wake was awsome. 23mph, 75ft, no wash.
Old    wakelvr            05-06-2003, 8:40 AM Reply   
That's a lot of weight Matt:-)

I'm trying to figure out a recipe that uses LESS weight.

Has anyone placed more weight in the front as opposed to the back? (In addition to the stock ballasts). If so, how did it work out for you?


Old    wilson (3puttwilson)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-06-2003, 9:16 AM Reply   
That is a lot of weight Matt.
Stefani-I was always told the weight in the back of the boat creates size and the weight up front shapes the wake. I think If I didn't fill up the back sacs all the way that would help it plane a little faster.

In my 99 Prostar we had 2,000 lbs in addition to the passengers and the wake was awesome. 500 in the ski locker in back, 500 on each side of the engine, 250 in ski locker up front and 250 in the bow.
It is the same hull we have on the x2. I think more weight up front might give the wake a little more of a vert shape.
Old    matt moss (mossy44)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-06-2003, 9:26 AM Reply   
i have a '02 xstar and this is my setup.

i have only used it once with this EXACT setup, but last years was about 100 lbs different and the wake was great.

- 2 600 lb sacs in the back (without the hard tanks)
- the standard bag in the center (i thought it was a 350 but yall are saying 400, so whatever that is)
- a 700 lb sac in the walkway of the bow.
- plus 6 speakers on the tower, 75 lbs of lead behind the sub to offset the amps and batteries' weight, plus two coolers and 7 people.

that was my setup this past weekend. i just wanted to see how it was. i had a little trouble at first finding the exact speed and weight displacement, but it turned out pretty good. i think all that weight with 7 people was a little much, but the wake was still awesome. i through the biggest hoochie glide i have ever thrown.

as for the planing out, yea i had a little bit of trouble. but that was all that i noticed. besdies that, i didnt notice any problems.

i am gonna go out this weekend without 7 people, more like 4 or 5 and less junk in the boat and i will see how everything works.
Old    Chaun Keating (big_poppa_pump)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-06-2003, 11:12 AM Reply   
OK, this is our typical riding setup in our 1999 X-Star.

It has a 6-bag Hippo so its really easy to tune the wake.

2 @ 550 lbs in the back engine compartment
1 @ 450 lbs in the ski locker
2 @ 150 lbs in the front seat storage
1 @ 200 lbs under a custom open bow play pen

I am being fairly conservative, the bags will expand further if I really pump them up and add some more weight.

Getting a lot of weight up front is key to getting a nice clean wake and eliminate bow rise and stop porpoising.

What I have found works the best is to fill everything but the back two bags full and then "tune" the wake with the back two bags.

The amount of weight I run in the back really depends upon how many people are on the boat (usually 4-5) and the conditions of the water.

With the system totally full and 6 or more passengers I am intimidated by the size of the wake, the boat tends to get slow out of the hole, usually we ride a 23.5 MPH and the wake is super clean. I usually only do this when I am trying to impress someone new that has claimed to ride a big wake.

The standard day is 4-5 people, back bags 3/4 full, everything else full. This is a very clean big wake, but not overly so. The boat does not porpoise and holds speed very well. It has a VERY strong holeshot in this configuration. (I also ride behind Wakesetters, SAN, and yes even a Tige now and again...all of which I like but I would have to say that the LTR engine beats them out of the hole.)

I haven't really spent much time going slower, (unless you count wakesurfing) but the few times we have gone under 21ish we had to drop weight or the wake got washy.

BTW the X-Star, 205V, X2 , whatever its called this week has an excellent wake for wake surfing. Pretty new to it still but Left Rear bag full and ski locker full gives a HUGE wall of water to play on. I have been going about 10 MPH but I think I need to bump it up to 11 or 12 when the wake gets larger.
Old    wakelvr            05-06-2003, 11:56 AM Reply   
We clearly had too much weight in the back and not enough in the front. The wake was like a wall, straight up and down and it wasn't as friendly as I would like. I would like a little more transition, a little more ramp. So, it sounds like I need to add more weight to the front and middle of the boat, and maybe drain some out of the back.

We'll try it this weekend. oh fun....


Old    dropzero            05-06-2003, 12:24 PM Reply   
Hi Stef? How is the X2? By the looks of things, you and Jason are loving the boat.
Back to the weight issue. We tried several setups and now only use this one unless we have less people in the boat.
rear stock tanks 250lbs x 2
stock ski locker 350 lbs
a 600 lb sac on the floor in the bow.

The wake is nice, clean and has a smooth transition. We ride at 70 ft with speed set between 20.5 - 21.5 depending on the rider.
Old    wilson (3puttwilson)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-06-2003, 12:31 PM Reply   
Stefani,
I think you may be right, I'm going to try the same and not fill the back bags as much.
My email is messed up at work so shoot me an email at titleist990dci@hotmail.com and let me know how it works out. It's been raining here for a week and looks like a wet weekend. I might not get to ride for a while.
Old    matt moss (mossy44)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-06-2003, 12:55 PM Reply   
rony, i am surprised the wake is ok at those speeds. i guess i am about 300-400 more lbs than you but we ride between 22.5 and 24 depending on the rider. but, when we would go below 22, it seemed to wash out a little bit. maybe that extra weight is what does it. anyway, that setup is what i have found to work best for me too.
Old    wakelvr            05-06-2003, 1:51 PM Reply   
Matt: That's exactly right. The more weight you add to the boat, the faster you have to ride in order to clean it up. I've heard this over and over and last weekend we learned it first hand. My husband wanted to ride switch at a slower speed, but when we slowed down to like 21, the wake washed out. We drained the tanks in the back and the wake cleaned up:-) If we added more weight to what we have, we'll have to ride faster. And that's just suicide for me.... hee hee.

Rony: The boat is great. We are very happy with it. It's having its 20 hours service right now and we are adding some speakers and a Bazooka tube sub to it. Woohooooo! We are still trying to find the perfect wake though. I like the fact that you can really tweak it to how you want it. The boat is SO MUCH easier to weigh down than the old X and we are so much happier with it;-)

Wilson: I'll email you after we ride this weekend. I'm going to try Rony's set up but might leave a little more weight in the back. We will see. I'll take pictures this time;-)
Old    dropzero            05-06-2003, 3:21 PM Reply   
Stef, glad to hear that you two are very happy with the purchase. How was the Vegas weekend? Hopefully, all the guys and gals had a great time. I was out of town and just got the email a few days ago.

Have you tried weighing the boat down with the way that we do it. Try that and let me know what you think.
Old    wakelvr            05-06-2003, 4:19 PM Reply   
Rony, Vegas was amazing. Got to see the Beastie Boys in concert at the House of Blues while we were there. That was a treat. Golfed, go-carted, clubbed, gambled... etc. It was great.

We will try your set up this weekend and let you know how it goes...
Old    wilson (3puttwilson)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-07-2003, 9:03 AM Reply   
Stefani-I'm going to add tower speakers and a new sub and maybe a new amp. What kind of speakers are you adding? I have Rockford Fosgate stuff in my Tahoe and have been very pleased.

Mike
Old    wakelvr            05-07-2003, 2:22 PM Reply   
Mike: We already have a set of Boss Chrome 6x9 tower speakers. We are adding two more. We have two amps, one for the tower speakers and one for the 10" sub and cabin speakers. We are adding another sub, a Bazooka SM104 Marine bass tube (10 inches).

We had a RF sub in our x9 and really liked it. Can't go wrong with RF.

I'll let you know how our new system sounds and how the wake works out after we ride this weekend:-)

Old    Alex Holden (nautiair)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-07-2003, 5:09 PM Reply   
yo mike what's up? I've got 2 10" Memphis audio subs and the boss b-530 speaker/light bar. I've got 2 kicker amps. I'll have to look again to see what size they are..... the one for the tower speakers is a new model from kicker..... I don't know if sean told you about it or not but it rocks! I love being able to hear the stereo over the engine while we're running to the cove where we ride. not just distortion..... we tried to ride on sunday and it was blown out and cold. I was kicking myself in the ass for not coming over there with sean. Hope to see you soon.

alex

PS- on sunday sean nailed his hs backroll first try!
Old    Alex Holden (nautiair)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-07-2003, 5:10 PM Reply   
stefani-
search out there for a thread where travis moye posted and you can see his set up for last years PWT boat. later

alex
Old    Alex Holden (nautiair)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-07-2003, 5:22 PM Reply   
here's what he had to say:

last year's tour boat and my new x-2 are the same. i run the stock ballast, a side sack(out of the case) on each side of the engine, and around 700lbs up front. i think the wieght up front is key, in any boat. if you weight the boat more evenly, the boat maintains more of its normal driving characteristics and the wake will be big and clean. i hate fluff on the wake.
alot of times depending on how many people are in the boat. i don't even fill the back tanks. i leave those side sacks full though, and will just use the tanks to balance it out. and the wake is great. and there are no issues ever with planing out. last year i had the ltr, and this year, the mcx, and they both jumped out of the water.
Old    wakelvr            05-07-2003, 5:31 PM Reply   
Thanks Alex. I am curious what size sacs he has in the back. We have two buddies which can hold 300 lbs each. We are going to do the same thing this weekend. Place more weight in the front, and maybe use the stock ballasts in the back. Or maybe we'll use the sacs and then fill and empty the stock ballasts as needed. Should be interesting trying it out. I'll post how it goes!



Old    Zack (raider40)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-07-2003, 10:36 PM Reply   
Stef - sorry to jump in on this post so late but Travis' response was to a question I'd asked concerning a problem getting mine to plane. My setup is the same as he's running but with a 550 in the front and the boat has a lot of trouble planing with a full tank of gas and 4 guys in it. We're gonna try the 700 Friday so I'll let you know how it is.

Here's the answers to your questions:
For one, what is your recipe?
REAR LOCKER I 250 lb hard tank plus 350 lb sac
REAR LOCKER II 250 lb hard tank plus 350 lb sac
SKI LOCKER 400 lb sac (standard ballast)
BOW 550 lbs

Is your wake rounded or peaky? Very peaky
Any problems with the boat planing out? Yes, the boat WILL NOT plane with that much weight plus full gas tank and 4 guys (180lb/ea)
Any porpoising? If so, is it normal when boat is heavily weighed down, or is it a distribution problem? None so far
Any problems maneuvering your boat or driving double-ups? No problems turning, actually turns tighter than the SANTE I've been on and it handles the 2-ups incredibly.
Any problems arise as a result of placing too much weight in the boat? (be honest here, I know it happens). None so far.
Old    wakelvr            05-07-2003, 10:44 PM Reply   
Hey Zack: Thanks for posting... We haven't had a problem planing and we had less weight in the bow as you. That is bizarre. We had 6 people in the boat too. We had 100 lbs less in the back though....

I can't figure that one out.... Have you tried to empty some of the weight in the back to get it to plane?

Can't wait to hear how things go this weekend. Be sure to post!
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-07-2003, 11:08 PM Reply   
Compare props, that may be the answer
Old    Zack (raider40)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-08-2003, 8:14 AM Reply   
Yes we've emptied some weight from the stock tanks and it does help some. Normally we just sit 2 guys in the bow and it planes with no problem - that's why I think adding some weight to the bow would help.

Darren - I'm already looking at different props.
Old    Zack (raider40)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-08-2003, 12:05 PM Reply   
One more question - what settings is everyone using for their Perfect Pass?
Old    wilson (3puttwilson)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-08-2003, 2:06 PM Reply   
I've been really busy at work so I haven't been able to get on here for a little while.

What's up Alex? Sean said your sound system was awesome. I'll come over soon and check it out before I buy anything. I'm just not happy with the stock Clarion stuff. I would love to hear the music when I ride. I called my Rockford Fosgate dealer and he didn't even know what a wakeboard tower was, let alone have speakers for it. I guess I'll have to order on the internet.
You should have come over we had a good day saturday. You have an open invitation anytime Sean comes over.
Sean was ready to blow it up before he got hurt last summer. I'm glad he can still ride. He can still rip it up even with a bum shoulder. I get out for the summer in about 3 weeks so I will pick up Sean and come over one day. I'll email you before too long and we'll work out the details. I know Mike O would like to come too.

Stefani-thanks for the info on your audio setup. Sounds like your gonna kick pretty hard.

Later
Old    John Jared (jjared)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-08-2003, 5:36 PM Reply   
Stefani, we have two basic configs. 1) The stock plus 200 in each rear locker. The wake has a nice kick at the top and the lip is real solid. 2) If we really want to make it huge then we fill the extra sacs in the rear to about 500 on each side and then use the launch pad lounge (540lbs) in the center in the front. We also ride with 4-6 and this keeps the same wake charactaristics as the first...just makes it bigger and harder to handle. We ride at 75 feet and 23 mph accept one who rides at 21.5 and it is awesome.

The last one is real similar to wilson. I don't know what the stock prop is on the 03 X2 but on my 02 X-Star it was the 14x20 OJ and it would take a little bit to get out of the whole with the fully loaded and 6-8 people. I've ran it with the new Acme 13.5x17.5 and it is much better. I haven't seen a difference in the fuel either.

The first is my favorite so I am thinking of taking the tanks off the rear and then just using my two 600lbs sacs on each side hooked into the factory ballast plumbing. Then we do not have any pumps to mess with and get the wake we prefer.
Old    matt moss (mossy44)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-09-2003, 7:27 AM Reply   
john, the last thing you mentioned is my exact setup. i have 600 lb sacs hooked up to the factory ballast and removed the tanks. i then have a 700 lb sac up front, plus the factory sac up front. pretty sweet! only have to deal with one pump and one sac. i am actually thinking about getting that same acme prop also. maybe that will help out a little.
Old    xtigeman            05-09-2003, 6:16 PM Reply   
Yo Matt. Need to hook up. Saw dude at stereo store as I was trying to get a disk chnager installed in the Cayenne. He said your boat was sounding loud. Nice.
Old    John Jared (jjared)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-10-2003, 12:37 PM Reply   
Stefani, you had an X9? I have a friend that has a ProStar 195 and is thinking of going to the X9 because he can give up the slolum. How did you like the wake compared to the X2? How did you weight it down? Thanks.
Old    wakelvr            05-11-2003, 12:05 AM Reply   
Hi John: If he still plans to ski, the X9 is a great boat for that and wakeboarding. Does he prefer the d-drive? What exactly is he looking to get out of the x9 vs. the x2? That will help me get a better idea of what he is looking for:-)

Old    John Jared (jjared)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-11-2003, 8:52 AM Reply   
He still wants a good boat to slolum behind but wants one that is bigger than the ProStar 195 and one that has a better wake for wakeboarding when weighted down.
Old    matt moss (mossy44)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-12-2003, 7:23 AM Reply   
doug - i will let you look at it and tell me what you think. i know i could change out amps but as for working with what i already have, i will see what you think. we should definitely ride soon. i actually might have messed up my knee yesterday. a messed up tantrum. I HOPE NOT!!!!!!! i am gonna go to the doctor later today to see. i better not have!
Old    wakelvr            05-12-2003, 11:02 AM Reply   
John: The X9 sounds like a great option for him if he's looking for something he can slolum behind as well as wakeboard behind! It is a large boat, and it will take more weight to weigh it down, but it still puts out a nice wake. We were very happy with our X9. It handled like a champ and got GREAT gas mileage.



Old    offaxisman            05-22-2003, 3:02 PM Reply   
i didnt read much posted, but i had a 2000 x-star and i had the factory ski locker ballast, "tube sacs" on each side of motor and side sacs up under front seats. this was a great set up for me. i tried the fat sacs in the rear(on each side) but did not like the way the boat drove and handled. took to long to plane off and the cruise didnt work well. not to metion the amount of gas used.. i really enjoyed this setup very much . remember, friends make great ballast and good times!! rite on and ride on!!! oh! the names of the sacs metioned are from "FLY HIGH" 4 those not that familiar. boat pic on profile and more info in the "boat pics" column and "the real 03 wake review" posted by don barrows. i used his account a few times b 4 i got mine activated. and made note of that on all postings. just scroll till you c the lime green x-star. that is where i started. in both columns thanks and "GOOD TIMES TO ALL!!"

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