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Old    lakebu            02-13-2003, 12:39 AM Reply   
If the Anti-SUV crowd succeeds can an attack on wakeboard boats, and all other fule buring forms of recreation be far behind?

The crowd decrying the gas-guzzling ways of America's vehicle of choice has expanded beyond traditional environmental groups and liberal lawmakers on Capitol Hill. A longtime Detroit journalist, national church groups, Hollywood power brokers and a radical group called the Earth Liberation Front have climbed on board. In the latest volley, conservative commentator Arianna Huffington just launched the "Detroit Project," an ad campaign that equates SUV ownership with supporting terrorism.
Anti-SUV drive puts automakers on alert

Latest salvo: TV ads that link vehicles to support of terrorism. http://www.detnews.com/2003/autoshow/0301/09/a01-55967.htm
Brazen action

The New Year's Day fire at the Pennsylvania new car dealership is possibly the most brazen action taken by an anti-SUV contingent. It took on the overtones of violent anti-abortion groups.

Since the fire, dealership owner Bob Ferrando said he has been deluged with calls and e-mails of support.

"One fellow from Mississippi called us and said he would drive all the way up here to buy an SUV from us," Ferrando said.

In defending the act on its Web site, earthliberationfront.com, the group said, "There is a direct relationship between our irresponsible over-consumption and lust for luxury products, and the poverty and destruction of other people and the natural world."

Charles Griffith of the Ecology Center in Ann Arbor said the ads and the acts of vandalism underscore that a growing group of people are now aware of the fuel economy issue and its link to foreign oil.
Old    Sandy Vandebult (sandbag)      Join Date: May 2002       02-13-2003, 9:22 AM Reply   
Phhhhhhht... These people will fade away after they make a little more noise. Everybody
knows the SUV is the simple evolution of the station wagon. Who the hell can oppose the station wagon?? Its just a family car!

Plus everybody knows Pick-up trucks are the true devil

hehe
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-13-2003, 9:44 AM Reply   
SUVs are a target because they are SO popular and considered unnecessary for urban living.

Boats are a different deal. Not many people have them and there is no obvious alternative for water travel.
Old    chris_hargis            02-13-2003, 12:58 PM Reply   
Those who came up with those ads and believe them can bite my hairy butt. I will gladly give them the military uniform I wear and let them put it on and go to foreign countries to fight those terrorists in my place.
Old    chris_hargis            02-13-2003, 1:05 PM Reply   
Wow, I just went to the ELF website and now I see that they are nothing more than terrorist here in America. What a group of hypocrits!
Old    wrride            02-13-2003, 1:27 PM Reply   
I don't believe they will attack recreation much more than they already have(off road motorcycling) because there are not enough people to attack!!!! wake boats are few and far between.
Old    Justin (wakinwestcoast)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-13-2003, 8:02 PM Reply   
now a days they can link anything to terrorist. i think i shouldn't pay the luxury tax on my boat cause that could be support terrorism.
Old    Jeff (jroyal)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-14-2003, 7:07 AM Reply   
I think that Nascar will be scrutinized before they come after wakeboard boats.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-14-2003, 11:16 AM Reply   
they're already after jet skis, but similar to SUVs - larger market (at least larger than WB boats) with little or no lobby. this is the major reason they focus on passenger vehicles when heavy industry is a MUCH larger portion of total pollution.

industry = huge lobby budget

consumer level = negligible lobby

it'll be a while before WB boats make it to the top of their lists.
Old    Shawn K. (zipe)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-14-2003, 12:42 PM Reply   
I get a good laugh from the anti SUV argument that their gas guzzling ways support terrorism, especially here in the bay area. Why does the SUV owner that drives 10 miles to work each day support terrorism any more than the poor folks that drive rice rockets 120 miles each way from the central valley to the bay area to work? Who consumes more gas?...Now I realize the argument may be a bit flawed, and I agree that gas consumption OVERALL needs to be improved, but it's wacked that those of us that CHOOSE to spend more on gas, (and pay more in gas taxes BTW), are getting targeted.

These idiots want to make me go out and buy a Hummer!
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-14-2003, 12:48 PM Reply   
"The New Year's Day fire at the Pennsylvania new car dealership is possibly the most brazen action taken by an anti-SUV contingent. It took on the overtones of violent anti-abortion groups."

hmmm, wonder what they started the fire with..
Old    k2rider            02-14-2003, 2:28 PM Reply   
Trace is right...SUV's are not the right trail to be on, it's Jet Ski's. The 'Blue Water' coalaition/foundation or whatever it is, has effectively got them banned for the time being on Lake Powell and soon to be Mead and Mojave. There is an ongoing study being done so we'll have to see how it all pans out. **IF** they do get them banned, I totally expect them to latch on the boats after thay...
Old    Chris Anthony (cmawsr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-15-2003, 1:32 AM Reply   
In california the smog laws are so strict that a brand new excursian produces less polution then any older vehicle from the rest of the country. The worst gas guzzling, poluting new vehicle is ten times better than any vehicle around 10 years or older
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-15-2003, 11:21 AM Reply   
OK...I have to vent.

Just remember..We have SUV's because the "We know what is best for the rest of you society. The intials spell Liberals" went after station wagons too. There obviously is a need/ want for this type of vehicle. We have the American Taliban running around trying to get rid of everything that does not take us back to the stone age. So much for "progressive". How can it be progressive when all they do is try and get rid of everything in our country only and do not care what other countries do to their people or environment. They blame American first. My guess is that they are not for America and will try and destroy us all in the name of the enviroment and their "progressive" causes. They did not want nuclear power, so, we end up with fossel fuel plants. Now we have pollution and shortages while having to rely on their Arab "The liberal's" brothers. They do not offer solutions. They just like to run around trying to ban everything. Ok...enough ranting ) I think they need to know the simple lesson of...don't bitch unless you have an actually solution.
Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       02-15-2003, 2:33 PM Reply   
Rod obviously gets it. Many conservatives sought to reduce our reliance on foreign oil and found it in Alaska (ANWR)- maybe the largest onshore oil basin in US History. Despite the Bush plan to develope one hundredth of 1 percent of the 19 million acres, Left wing liberal lunatics like the Sierra Club advertised that the Bush plan would send polar bears and caribou toward extinction. Of course, the usual liberal crowd (Clinton, Gore, Brad Pitt, Ted Turner) followed their lead like mindless lapdogs.
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-15-2003, 6:47 PM Reply   
Maybe they ought to get off our regular Joe a$$es as we are easy targets and thats why they do it..They need to go after these fat cat billion dollar,grease the hand of inspectors,pay off goverment official ,non compliant to Osha and gov rules and regs business's who have vehicles and business factories that pour 10,000 times the polution into the air then we all do combined ,and that the truth !

All these big rigs,dump trucks,garbage trucks and factories pouring out black smoke and sucking up fuel like crazy and our little SUV and boats are doing harm?Get Real im sick of their complaining ,they are worse then the people who think they are making a dent in the drug war ,it aint gonna happen in our generation ,period..

Little people like us our easy targets,they know they cant touch these Factory and business giants because they are too rich and know people deep in the process to overlook this stuff..

I for one am sick of all the regulations on smog and stuff and road taxes we get charged only to be stuck in traffic behind these huge trucks billowing out black smoke on a daily basis and noone cares.Then you see on TV that they are issuing tickets to cars of people who cant afford new ones that have too much smoke coming out of their tailpipes..Get real these activists only pick on little people becaue thats all they can do..they need to shut up already and get a life !

Im off the soapbox now :-)
Old    upupnaway            02-16-2003, 10:33 AM Reply   
Because pleasure boats use up such a miniscule percentage of the overall fuel consumption, we are probably under the radar.
As for the groups targeting s.u.v.'s, every time I see mention of them on the news, it seems to be a little condescending, like "check out these nut-cases".
Old    lakebu            02-16-2003, 12:50 PM Reply   
Unfortunately there is a group of Know It All's out there who know better that you and I what we should drive and how we should live our lives. They have currently targeted SUV's . If that objective is ever achieved they will then move their anger to the next target. It may be Pleasure Boats.

While pleasure boats may be a small percentage of total fule consumption this group can deamonize pleasure boats as "Gas Wasting Recreation of the Idle Rich" Just remember:

In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Old    stillstandin            02-19-2003, 1:32 PM Reply   
Make no mistake about it, IF the Blue water network..(buncha water nazi's) is succesful in getting PWC's restricted, boats WILL be next. We are a small group, thats why, like PWC's they will go after us. Anything that has to do with having fun, and using gas, will be under attack by liberals. The key is putting people with common sense into office, and by using your "toy" responsibly.
Old    swass            02-19-2003, 1:56 PM Reply   
Man, I'm tired of the liberal bashing.

Old    leggester            02-19-2003, 2:22 PM Reply   
Well, unfortunately Swass, there is a point to this. Most people of any affiliation are normal, well adjusted folks.

Then there are the extreme Right, Lefts and Liberals. Rights and Lefts argue with each other. Extreme Liberals tend to tell folks what's 'good' for them. That really pushes the most basic button anyone has. Remember ELF burning down the Vail lodge? Then bragging about it? And saying it's was in protest of all the abuse the forests are getting?

I have three friends that are Liberals. All of them are the nicest guys you could meet. Much nicer than me. My 18 year old is a Liberal, despite all my teachings !

I believe firmly in live and let live. If my neighbor wants to take a bath on his deck in the summer, more power to him. I'll just look the other way and try to ignore the off key singing. But when my basic Libertine old butt gets pounded on because someone else thinks I shouldn't do something basically harmless ( like exposing myself in a bath ), I tend to get riled up!

Sorry for the diatribe, I'll go back to therapy now.
Old    Whiskey Tango (whiskeytango)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-19-2003, 3:15 PM Reply   
Hey Matt, you left out one group - moderates.

Most people are neither extremely liberal or extremely conservative. They're somewhere in between. It's the extremists on both ends of the spectrum that cause the problems.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-19-2003, 4:39 PM Reply   
Me too, Swass. I was trying to get the energy to try to make the point that the environment is worth caring about and if there is a way to lessen pollutants, that's a good thing. You can be a moderate environmentalist!

But then I remembered that global warming is just a myth so no need to waste my energy.
Old    lakebu            02-20-2003, 1:40 AM Reply   
Still, the anti-SUV crusade continues. The New York Daily News noted this sign at a weekend anti-war rally: “If war is inevitable, start drafting SUV drivers now.”
Old    leggester            02-20-2003, 5:43 AM Reply   
Whiskey, Moderates are what I called the normal, well adjusted folks.
Old    Whiskey Tango (whiskeytango)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-20-2003, 9:52 AM Reply   
I agree, Matt. The thing is, the staunch Republicans aren't moderates.

You can draw your own conclusion from that...
Old    leggester            02-20-2003, 10:37 AM Reply   
I guess you percieve I'm a Republican because I don't share your views. I've never been a bleeding heart and never will be. IMHO, this IS a free country. You're free to starve if you choose not to work. I will NOT support you.

You're quite free to have your own views also. As am I. I find it quite interesting that those who want to 'do good' for the populace tend to forget that.

Quite frankly, I'm a Libertine.

Bush and cohorts screwed CO with the Silverado stuff and DIA. Still he was the best man, and still is for the job he has to do IMO. I don't necessarily need to like the man to respect his abilities in these troubled times.

I never called Clinton names - even though he should have been impeached. I don't undertand the Liberal and Democrats that need to call Bush names.

Even if you don't respect the man, you still need to respect the office.

'nuff said.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-20-2003, 12:43 PM Reply   
On the Republican issue and more.....sorry guys, I just got on a freaking role and could not stop...

The Republican party of today is very much like the Democrat party of JFK's day. I do not hear Anti-Labor, Anti-Environment (the new religion) or anything like that coming from the Rebulicans. Just because someone is not over reacting and jumping on bandwagons does not mean they do not care. There is a case where someone went to congress and almost got water band, because they used the scientific name and told of the thousands of people that are killed each year. The Republicans are the one who champion individual freedom and pro-American Ideas (imagin that, they actually care about us and not the african dictators or Euro-socialists/ communists). The republican party is the party that started the environmental movement. We call it conservation. It is a common sense approach to live within the means of the earth while still providing jobs and other day to day items that make life a pleasure to live rather than just existing. Liberals want change now for the sake of change. They do not care of how many people are destroyed to get it done. They think ends justify the means (just like dictators do). The reason that liberal media does not get a large radio audience is do to the fact that when you listen and not watch of read, you have to actually hear what they are saying. When you hear it, it is the same ol emotional crap. They play on emotions and not much fact. When the fact and realities of life hit, there feelings do not tread water. They use nothing but race bating, scare tactics that history proves time and time again to be false (70's no energy left for the 21st century, 80's nuclear winter, 90's global warming, and 2000's it seems to be the war so far and the United Nations).

The notion that invading a cruel dictator will do more harm. They say the Arab's will be mad at us. They already are!! They hate the liberals for there Immoral lifestyle, they hate Christians for their religion, they hate the Jews for their religion, they hate everything about our culture because we have progress over the last 1000 years. The only progression those people did is have the western world find oil on their land. That is it. Now how ironic is it that the party that is suppose to care so much about the human condition, could care less about the poor oppressed people of Iraq and have totally forgot the lesson of 9/11. They say thousands and thousands of troops will die. Did you see the first gulf war? They surrendered to NEWS CREWS!! They say prove there are not weapons....Their beloved United Nations said that Iraq had to prove they do not have them, not for us to prove they do not have them. The Iraqis agreed to surrender and that was and is the deal. It is funny how the "war" movement got going right after the liberals lost the congress to the Republicans. Funny How the "war" protesters did not carry signs about the war, but, mostly about their political agendas. Did you know that Clinton launched over 800 cruise missles on Iraq? You did not hear a word. Where were these people when we freed that other little hole that I can not spell among other things I can not spell. More politics from the liberals. Why do liberals care? They always hated our military and the people in it. Why do they care if they die. They always hate America and our ideas of freedom. Do they really care about the Iraqi people? I doublt it. They are just trying the same tricks. They lost the congress, they lost the white house and most americans do not believe that their is that much racism, americans want their guns, the labor laws pretty much offer equal protection for worker and owner, men and women are closing the gaps, and people are starting for find out that aboartion is not what it is crack up to be. They are loosing points to fight on and they choose the war.

All I know is that if liberals lived in the Arab countries, they would be the first to be inslaved and killed. I do not trust any group that sides with Russia, China, Arab Nations, and the French.

Well, this was a great way to blow my lunch time........
Old    leggester            02-20-2003, 12:52 PM Reply   
Watch it, WTF is gonna get on your case now. ;)
Old    nick360            02-20-2003, 9:20 PM Reply   
I saw a great interview tonight with one of the Kennedy's, I believe Robert F. Kennedy Jr., where he called anyone who drove an SUV or bought and SUV, Un-American. Let's see, that would mean that what virtually everyone on this site is Un-American? Of course they then asked him how he traveled to New York for the interview. Gee, amazingly it was a PRIVATE JET! He was asked how much fuel his private jet burned compared to an SUV. He then attacked the interviewer for trivializing the conversation and refused to talk about it.
Old    nick360            02-20-2003, 9:27 PM Reply   
I also find it very irritating that the same people who wrote those adds to say "I helped our enemies produce weapons of mass distruction." are the same ones saying that Saddam doesn't even have WMD and that the war is all about oil.
Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       02-22-2003, 8:29 AM Reply   
I saw that interview also. Typical. Absolutely typical. A rich guy who hasn’t had to work for his money, who travels around in a private jet, who owns multiple large mansions, calls some American who works 40 hours a week and drives an SUV Un-American?? Kennedy's monthly energy/gas bill is probably far greater than most American's make in a month or two. That is just outstanding huh? Another Democrat poster boy showing his colors.
Old    liquidforcer88            02-22-2003, 7:08 PM Reply   
I seriously do not think that wakeboard boats will be banned from anylakes like jetskis have, if that happened then the water would just be wasted on fishermen in rowboats. Also if they banned boats then the boat launch places would be pissed cuz they would no longer have any buisness, and a whole sport would be lost. I also think that who ever wants to ban wakeboarding can come to my front door and tell it to me face to face, and see what happens. I will not let the sport that I love get banned cuz a little global warming, the more global warming, the more I can wakeboard.
Old    wakekid14            02-22-2003, 7:37 PM Reply   
hmm...that made for interesting reading. Now i think i'll add my 2 cents.

"I believe in the united states of america as a government of the people, by the people, for the people. Who's just powers are derived from the consent of the governed. A democracy in a republic, a sorverign nation of many sorviergn states. A perfect union, one and inseperable. Established upon those princed of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which american patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.

I therefor believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its constituion, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies."

The Americans Creed, by William Tyler Page
- this was adopted by congress
I think i got most of that right.....now this statement sheds some light on a few issues...
1. the enviornmental issue- "just power derived from the consent of the governed" i consider the governed to be the tax payers...how much of the tax paying percentage do you think the enviornmental activists make up? How much of the tax percentage do you think SUV owners make up? It would seem to me that SUV owners should hold a little more sway in the argument.
2. War with iraq-(somebody had to bring it up)"i therefor believe it is my duty to my country to....defend it against all enemeies" and "for which american patriots sacrificed their lives" OK lets think about this..war was the only way that the people protesting the war in iraq got the rights to protest the war. Now they think war is a bad thing. Oh yeah, and i would definataly carachterize saddam as an enemy. So i believe it is my duty to defend my country against him.
3. My God Given freedom to wakeboard... don't even try to take that away from me...
just some closing arguments from me

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