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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through April 04, 2003

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Old    jeffc            02-15-2003, 10:12 AM Reply   
I ski and wakeboard, same amount of time each. I know the VLX has the better boarding wake, and the 21LSV (not to be confused with the wakesetter 23 LSV, the 21 has the sv23 diamond hull) has the better slalom wake. Q: how is the LSV for wakeboarding, assuming tower and ballasts; and how is the VLX for skiing?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-15-2003, 11:22 AM Reply   
How good are you at skiing? Do you ride the course or free ride? What length rope?

What level wake boarder are you, are you big wake crazy or is a moderate size wake enough?
Old    piglet69            02-15-2003, 11:25 AM Reply   
V-drives are not really all that great of a skiing boat anyway. I pulled some skiers once. They did ok behind my VLX. On time I forgot to empty the back ballast. It was hilarious...
Old    jeffc            02-15-2003, 11:33 AM Reply   
I suppose I do both pretty well for a guy living in a state with short summers, but I'm nothing like a competition skier or boarder. I've been using an 18-foot 4winns i/o. The guy at malibu told me the vlx slalom wake would be smaller than the wake on my runabout, which surprised me, and has me leaning toward the vlx. Think that's true?
Old    BeeTL (ofwc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-15-2003, 1:38 PM Reply   
I had a Four Winns Horizon 170 OB and I now have an '03 VLX on order. My slalom days are long behind me, but I suspect you will be very pleased with the VLX slalom wake relative to your Four Winns.

The VLX hull was originally a ski hull, if I'm not mistaken. The 21 LSV is a newer ski hull design. My impression is the 21 LSV may be SLIGHTLY better as a ski hull, but the VLX will be SUBSTANTIALLY better as a wakeboard hull.

Considering the rapid decline in interest in slalom skiing and the growing popularity of wakeboarding and wakeboard specific boats, I'd recommend the VLX.

You will have an easier time on the resale side...

Old    JCrave (s4inor)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-15-2003, 2:22 PM Reply   
The difference in hulls is actually reversed. The 21 LSV will be a substantially better ski boat, while the Wakesetter VLX will be a slightly better boarding boat.

If I were in your position I would get a Sunscape 21 LSV with Wakesetter graphics, a tower, Wedge and MLS and enjoy an incredible wakeboarding boat that is much more than most riders will ever need. You'll also be able to take a set on the slalom ski behind the best slaloming v-drive on the market.
Old    jeffc            02-15-2003, 3:20 PM Reply   
Thanks for the thoughts, Jason and BT. I think you're both partially right, but obviously you ultimately disagree. If anyone else can tell me which one of these guys has it right, I'll be indebted. I'm learning what others have said about the magazines being completely useless-especially waterski '03, which raved equally about every boat made.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       02-15-2003, 4:26 PM Reply   
Jason is right with the information on the LSV being a much better ski boat and as he said, most people will never need to the wake difference seen between the LSV and the VLX for wakeboarding.

Also, I disagree with BT on a rapid decline in slalom skiers. The amount of competitive slalom skiers is actually on the increase, it's just wakeboarding has brought a tremendous amount of new people to the sport and some recreational skiers made the switch.

I agree with BT though that either boat will slalom better than an I/O.
Old    BeeTL (ofwc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-15-2003, 5:04 PM Reply   
Just to clear things up a bit, I don't really disagree with either Nick or Jason. Both appear to be a little more "dialed in" to the subtleties between Malibu hull platforms, so I'll defer to their judgements there. Obviously I'm a little biased since I'm buying a VLX.

My assessment of the decline in slalom skiing came from what I've been told by the dealers I've talked to. I've heard that V-drive sales have outpaced D-drive sales because of the popularity of wakeboarding. Also, I almost NEVER see slalom skiers on the lakes I've ridden on in Orlando and Tampa Bay. That's a BIG change from ten years ago, when all I saw were skiers and kneeboarders.

Both boats you're considering are V-drives; I think what you're hearing here is that EITHER boat will be a good choice for you. Which boat is ultimately better is your call. It's a big decision, so my final thought is...DEMO BOTH if you can, and decide for yourself!
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-15-2003, 5:06 PM Reply   
"much more than most riders will ever need"

Jason, I don't get this statement. To me, it is not about what you need but what you enjoy. And, an great wake is enjoyed by wakeboarders of all skill levels.

BTW, I also know someone that purchased the 21 LSV with great regret. This person was sold the boat based on knowledge that the wake production difference was not a big deal. In the end, this person was really bummed that it was so hard to sink the LSV to get the wake up. Yes, this person sought a pro quality wake even though he and his friends were not pro riders.
Old    BeeTL (ofwc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-15-2003, 5:23 PM Reply   
OK, I lied...this is my (perhaps) my final thought.

My first boat was a starter boat (the Four Winns). My second was what I believed to be the ultimate boat for my needs as a novice wakeboarder - a MasterCraft X-9.

In a single season (150 hours) behind the X-9 my riding progressed to the point that I could CLEARLY perceive the benefits of a Pro-Caliber wakeboard boat.

As a result, I sold the X-9 and I am ordering a VLX. Again, I never slalom, so a slalom wake is of no importance to me.

My point? YOU will be riding behind the boat, NOT US!

Avoid any regrets - DEMO BOTH!!!
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       02-15-2003, 5:31 PM Reply   
BT, good points. My statement about slalom skiing was only competitively, as a lot of recreational skiers have made the switch and the more serious skiers have moved to private sites because of all the big wakes these days

I really think Jeff needs to go out and get behind these boats before he buys. I know it's hard when you want to buy a boat in the winter, but I don't know why anyone that is worried enough about the wake difference between an LSV and a VLX would take the opinion of others on a board. Many people give good advice, but it just comes down to what you like best.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-15-2003, 5:33 PM Reply   
BT, the problem with the DEMO statement for boats and boards is that many people have NO CLUE.

I am not saying this is the case here, yet it was the case for me 3 years ago. I did not ride behind my VLX before I purchased it in April 2000 because I did not even own a board then! And, my riding skills were SO weak, it would not have mattered. I was just lucky with my purchase.

My first board was the Belmont. Not a bad choice. Yet, my first rope was a pathetic low-stretch multi-color rope. Pretty bad! Soon enough, I learned... spectra, sacks, lead.

Side note: I could careless about optimizing my boat for skiing.
Old    jeffc            02-16-2003, 9:13 AM Reply   
Nick: I'm not sure I'll get a chance to drive the boats because it's winter here and I'm trying to take advantage of a boat show offer, but I will try to do so on everyone's suggestion. These insights are huge for me though--especially Dane's, about the person who regretted getting the LSV--because I've never been in either boat. B/T/W, I am giving it up for this website.
Old    JCrave (s4inor)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-16-2003, 1:27 PM Reply   
The thing we're trying to tell is that you probably won't regret getting either boat. If you were comparing the Reponse LXi or even the Sunsetter LXi to the v-drives then the chance that you'll be disappointed would be higher. But unless you see yourself increasing the time you spend skiing in the next few years, you'll be more than happy with either boat.

That said, if you're going to purchase without demoing, I would focus mostly on Sunscape 21.

Since you've narrowed your search down to a Malibu, you might want to check out MalibuBoatOwners.com for more specific information. You'll be able to find and talk with other owners that were in your exact same position.
Old    jeffc            02-17-2003, 3:52 AM Reply   
Thanks. Dane, do you know if your friend got ballasts and the wedge on his LSV?
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-17-2003, 11:44 AM Reply   
Jeff, he got rid of the boat. He did not have the wedge, he just sacked the heck out of the boat (a sack every place possible). But, again, this guy was a wakeboarder, not a skier. This boat was not for him, while it may be for you. I just wanted you to realize that you will give to get. A "jack of all trades" is master of none.
Old    BeeTL (ofwc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-17-2003, 4:17 PM Reply   
OK - one more thought. I think along the same lines as Dane as far as JOATMON goes.

Consider this:

In five years when you are looking to upgrade to the newest, greatest boat or get out because you've permanently shredded your ACL, which boat will people be more interested in buying?

Since no one can predict the future, I would base my answer to this question on what is happening today.

Which boat is selling more, the LSV or the VLX? Ask your Malibu dealer...
Old    Skylar Dubrow (skydog96)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-17-2003, 5:52 PM Reply   
im not buying it.. youve tried wakeboarding, yet your still skiiing.. who are you fooling
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       02-17-2003, 8:16 PM Reply   
crazy concept huh
Old    jeffc            02-18-2003, 4:37 AM Reply   
all legitimate points. BT, I told the dealer that all my hand-wringing about the differences in wakes would be moot after I break my back this summer, and he reminded me that the driver seat lumbar support would be large at that point. I've noticed after looking into this some more that the draft on the vlx is smaller than most other v-drives: 20" versus 22" on the x2, 24" on the launch ssv, 28" on the nautique 210, and 30" on the avalanche. This has me thinking the slalom wake on the vlx is probably pretty good, relatively speaking. More importantly, I'm going to be in tampa next week so hopefully I can take one out.
Old    BeeTL (ofwc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-18-2003, 6:43 AM Reply   
Jeff,

If you're a Tampa Bay person, get with Rich at Land O' Lakes Marine. He has treated me very well. 813-909-9200. They have a VLX demo boat, so you can certainly get a sense of how the VLX wakeboards and slaloms.

I don't know if they have a 21 LSV...

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