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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through April 04, 2003

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Old    Jefe (eljefepequeno)      Join Date: Dec 2002       02-11-2003, 11:41 AM Reply   
I would just like confirmation from all you MC Guru's on who was the designer of the new X-star and 280.

A little background, I was at the Kalispell boatshow (Yes, Montana is such a beautiful place) and saw the new Cobalt 240SD. Basically, looks identical to the new X-star, only an IO. Well I was talking to my brother on how the X-star was designed by the same guy as this boat and it looks very similar. Anyway, a Cobalt salesmen comes up to me and says that Cobalt is individually owned and does not design for anyone else and that I was incorrect. I disagreed, of course, showed him a picture of the xstar (got it from the MC dealer there, hey Casey) and showed him the similarities, and he said MC copied Cobalt and that is the reason the Xstar hasn't been release due to legal issues.

Well, guys, what is the scoop? Am I wrong?
Old    KStateAlumni (bbeach)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-11-2003, 11:46 AM Reply   
Yes you are wrong...

I have no idea who designed what or who did it first, but legal issues have nothing to do with why MC hasn't released the new X-Star. They made changes to the hull to fix the wake on one side and they had to redo the molds and a few other things before they could start producing them.

P.S. This info is directly from a Mastercraft Regional Salesmans mouth.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-11-2003, 12:19 PM Reply   
Probably spoken from one side of his mouth too.

My guess is the boat had a wake problem on the approach side (i.e. both sides) and this is spin control. It sounds so much better to have a problem with the wake on one side.
Old    Jefe (eljefepequeno)      Join Date: Dec 2002       02-11-2003, 1:00 PM Reply   
So, then who did design the X-star? MC?

Bradley, I have no problem saying I am wrong, but I have a question, if you are saying I am wrong, yet you have no idea who designed the x-star, well, how can you be sure? Did your Mastercraft Regional Salesmen tell you it was designed by someone OTHER than Cobalt?

So please, does anyone know who designed the new X-star? And why does it look identical to the Cobalt 240SD?
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       02-11-2003, 1:09 PM Reply   
My question would be why would MC, a Tennessee inboard manufacturer, contact Cobalt, a Kansas runabout manufacturer, to design the new X-Star. I could understand if the two companies were in geographically in the same neighborhood, but otherwise, I would think MC could do it on their own. Though, I don't know why MC would steal an ugly design like that either.
Old    Jefe (eljefepequeno)      Join Date: Dec 2002       02-11-2003, 1:20 PM Reply   
I knew I heard it from somewhere

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/36329.html
Old    Jefe (eljefepequeno)      Join Date: Dec 2002       02-11-2003, 1:28 PM Reply   
No one seems to be going against some of the statements in this thread either.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/28554.html

Never mind, I think I know the answer.
Old    hlboatsnboards            02-11-2003, 2:26 PM Reply   
I've heard a lot of talk about this legal battle with cobalt. There is a cobalt dealer just one side of me and a MC dealer on the other. So I get it in both ears. But not really sure who to believe. Is there ANYONE at all that can confirm there is no legal issues with this toher than a salesmans mouth? B/c as a salesman, i would probably say the same thing! :-)

B
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       02-11-2003, 2:43 PM Reply   
If there is a legal battle, I think it's hilarious. Two companies fighting over a completely ugly design.
Old    Karen Nelems (knelems)      Join Date: May 2002       02-11-2003, 2:44 PM Reply   
Does the name Peter Granada ring a bell?
Old    Phil Veit (bigjackamo)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-11-2003, 3:07 PM Reply   
We've started calling it the "Ghost-Star". We hear everyone talking about it, have seen photo's, read about how it was seen here, there and everywhere, but in the end I'm not sure if it really even exists!

I'm not sure why Mastercraft is spending so much advertising budget on a boat that no one can get and if the do only a limited number will be sent out.
Old    Matt Cour (mcsammamish)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-11-2003, 3:13 PM Reply   
What I "Know" is that 2 yrs ago (fall of 2001 or around that time) I was working for a MasterCraft dealer and was told from Scott Crutchfield (VP Sales) that Colbalt was going to visit the MasterCraft factory. I asked what about and was told a very vague and not so serious response of that they were going to be talking about gelcoat. Well it was pretty obvious that Scott didn't want to talk about it so I let it go.
I'll leave it at that but for the question of why would MasterCraft contact Cobalt; they did and I think we are seeing the reason and now we are watching the results unfold.
Oh how much fun this has been.
PS, the mc in mcsammamish; is for my initials and not for Master Craft.
Old    Karen Nelems (knelems)      Join Date: May 2002       02-11-2003, 4:12 PM Reply   
Cobalt is an independently owned company but they
have for years contracted with Peter Granada to do their design work,just like Formula is independently owned
but has used John Adams as their designer for years,it is just fesible for companies to farm out
some of their work if they don't have in house personnel for their projects.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       02-11-2003, 4:28 PM Reply   
Phil,

Long time no see, been out on the water lately?
Old    aussie            02-11-2003, 4:58 PM Reply   
Peter Granada is on retainer with Cobalt but has an independent marine design firm that has done interior designs for Mastercraft in the past, I believe. Cobalt released the "pickle fork" deck style boat to their dealers last year around mid summer.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-11-2003, 6:05 PM Reply   
possesion is nine tenths of the law is what i heard GO I/O !!!!!!
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-11-2003, 7:41 PM Reply   
I'm doing a search on Mastercraft in federal court thinking maybe there will be some ongoing patent litigation.

So far the only thing I've turned up is that they are defendants in a trademark infringement case brought by Unique Functional Products, Inc., which claims to be the maker of "Trailer Buddy Products." Kind of interesting. Hard to tell from the docket but looks like MC had a preliminary injunction entered against it.

I'll let you know if I turn up anything else.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-11-2003, 8:03 PM Reply   
Argh, the federal court server is driving me insane.

Didn't see anything that looked like it might be Cobalt in federal court. There is, besides the Trailer Buddy issue, something going on between MC and a company called "Bombardier, Inc."

Correct Craft is in a bunch of litigation, and appears to be the plaintiff in all of it.

They are suing, at the least, Boss Accessories, Ski World of Orlando, a company named something like X-it sports (???) and at least one other case.

Kind of interesting. Wakeworld should be reporting on this stuff!
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-11-2003, 8:32 PM Reply   
first suit sounds like MC started making their own trailer surge brake actuators. UFP made the surge system on my old MC trailer.

second one must be MC suing Bombardier over the X name being used on one of their jet boat models.
http://www.sea-doo.com/seadoo/web/jsp/main.jsp?Params=Y.US.210.9
i thought this used to be called the "X-20" or something?
Old    Matt Cour (mcsammamish)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-11-2003, 8:48 PM Reply   
I've got an old customer that's suing MasterCraft.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-11-2003, 8:50 PM Reply   
My impression was that the first suit was for trademark infringement for using the term "Trailer Buddy" without permission. I could be wrong.

Matt, what's the suit for?

It should be stated I only checked the federal docket. Obviously Mastercraft could be involved in lots of litigation at the state court level.
Old    Jefe (eljefepequeno)      Join Date: Dec 2002       02-12-2003, 7:31 AM Reply   
I had heard about the CC vs. Boss suit, but was never told what the problem was. Anybody know details?
Old    KStateAlumni (bbeach)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-12-2003, 8:04 AM Reply   
elinenngurnnrgrquono:

I was merely saying that you were wrong about WHY MC hadn't released the boat yet, you COULD be correct about MC stealing the design from Cobalt. I don't know about that one. As I said before in my post, I personally have no idea where the design came from, but I do agree with Nick that why would Mastercraft contact Cobalt(clear out here in Kansas) to design the X-Star for them? I am only commenting on the legal issues being the cause of the late release of the new X-Stat (or Ghost-Star as some of you have put it!).

I am beginning to wonder if I will ever see a new X-star as well. I'm also getting impatient waiting for HO to ship the new Truth slalom ski, and Hyperlite to ship the new Landlocks. Don't these companies know I need something to put in my living room and look at until it gets warm enough to get back on the water! Let's get a move on HO and Hyperlite!
Old    Jefe (eljefepequeno)      Join Date: Dec 2002       02-12-2003, 8:24 AM Reply   
Well, if you had actually read the original post, you would see that I had said the SALESMAN reported on the suit, not me.

OK, making fun of the name is getting old, I got the point, and have changed it to simply "Jefe" for all you who can't type complex names.
Old    KStateAlumni (bbeach)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-12-2003, 9:30 AM Reply   
Yeah but you said, "Am I wrong?"

It's cool Jefe, I'm just messing with you, oh and sorry about the name thing, it just seemed like so much work to type that one!

Too bad someone from MC can't log on here and lay down the law on the new X-Star! Or even someone from Cobalt!
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2003, 10:45 AM Reply   
Is it a suprise that a x-star designed by a I/O engineer is having problems with wash? Ha, ha, thats part of the I/O design
Old    Matt Cour (mcsammamish)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-12-2003, 11:16 AM Reply   
Andre, I've talked with this person just a couple of times in the last two years and have learned of two years of consistant problems.

I believe it's as simple as poor quality product. The problems have been too many to remember but some are, leaking rubrail, armrest falling off, dash and switches falling off, 3 sets of ballast pumps, walkthrough windshield and I know there is more. I'm not defending the customer or MC, all I really know is that he is suing them.
It also didn't help that MC pulled the dealership from the two dealers here in Washington and didn't let the dealers continue to do warranty work.

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