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Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-11-2014, 12:08 PM Reply   
I hate going through these checkpoints http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...top+goes+viral
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-11-2014, 12:09 PM Reply   
Sorry, didn't copy the right link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-WMn_zHCVo
Old    Tony (T_A)      Join Date: Feb 2013       07-11-2014, 8:14 PM Reply   
I hate seeing these videos, if you don't wanna be treated like that, don't be a douche to cops. I hear it all the time where people try and entice cops while recording/filming them saying "I have my rights!" Then they are all bent out of shape cause they get lit up with a taser for not cooperating with them. I just laugh at those stories and think the prick probably deserved it...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-11-2014, 9:22 PM Reply   
Tony,
He doesn't have to cooperate and to suggest he's a 'prick that deserves tasing' for not giving up his constitutional right is terrifying to me.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-11-2014, 9:44 PM Reply   
There are a lot of things you don't "have" to do but you should. Being polite to people doesn't take much effort. He was being confrontational, which is his constitutional right. But even though it is a right, doesn't make it "right".
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-11-2014, 10:09 PM Reply   
At no time was he impolite, he was uncooperative. Uncooperative and impolite are not synonymous. Asserting/protective/exercising you constitutional right(s) does not make one 'confrontational'.

Moving on- Why should he cooperate?
Speaking of "right"- is it "right" for him to be stopped and questioned without suspicion of a crime being committed?

If they knock on your door will you allow them to rummage through your wife's panty drawer? Careful! You don't want to be confrontational... Do the "right" thing.
Old    Tony (T_A)      Join Date: Feb 2013       07-11-2014, 10:12 PM Reply   
You don't have to cooperate when you get pulled over? Good luck pulling that card if you ever come to Texas!
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-11-2014, 10:19 PM Reply   
Some of these responses are pretty frightening. The driver was not rude or confrontational. The officer certainly was. He was non compliant because he has the right to be. Just because cops think they can violate the 4th amendment doesn't make it right.

In case y'all missed it we live in a police state because people just went along. If you want to go along, then so be it. But don't bash a guy that chooses to stand up forbid rights.

Ya know, Rosa Parks could have just sat in the back of the bus. She didn't have to be non-compliant. But she chose to stand up and helped to change the direction of the country.
Old    Tony (T_A)      Join Date: Feb 2013       07-11-2014, 10:20 PM Reply   
It was a DUI stop, possibly "no refusal weekend." Driving at night and refusing to roll down your window, I would assume your drunk and not wanting the officer to be able to smell your breath. Under that suspicion they could ask him to get out of the car and do a sobriety test, which at first he refused to get out of the car.. All this kid had to do was be courteous and roll his window down, they prob woulda waved him through. Instead he got his video camera and tried to be as difficult as possible without crossing any lines and getting his @$$ beat or lit up. I've seen others that have crossed that line to the point where when they get lit up your saying, "yea that was deserved"
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-11-2014, 10:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_A View Post
It was a DUI stop, possibly "no refusal weekend." Driving at night and refusing to roll down your window, I would assume your drunk and not wanting the officer to be able to smell your breath. Under that suspicion they could ask him to get out of the car and do a sobriety test, which at first he refused to get out of the car.. All this kid had to do was be courteous and roll his window down, they prob woulda waved him through. Instead he got his video camera and tried to be as difficult as possible without crossing any lines and getting his @$$ beat or lit up. I've seen others that have crossed that line to the point where when they get lit up your saying, "yea that was deserved"
It wasn't a DUI stop. It was a checkpoint. It's still a violation of the 4th amendment. All they had to say is that we are detaining you based on your refusal. No intimidation necessary. The detainment is a clearly defined line where the relationship between officer and citizen changes. Instead of doing that they resort to intimidation which is status quo for LEO these days. Non compliance should never be a reason to get tazed.

Freedom and liberty shouldn't take a day off because its a holiday weekend.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-11-2014, 10:43 PM Reply   
It's pretty clear how the state has been able to take control of the people by fear.

They'll never need to confiscate firearms, they've already been successful in confiscating your minds.
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-12-2014, 7:06 AM Reply   
I had a cop practically tackle me in a grocery store parking lot one time over an expired inspection sticker on my car. He was all pissed off that I hadn't stopped for him. I had pulled into the parking lot and parked my car and was walking into the store. He screeched up behind me and jumped out screaming like I was public enemy #1 demanding to know why I was running from him. He was in an unmarked car with only a flashing light on the dash - no siren and guess what? I genuinely never saw the guy following me at any point until he nearly ran me down in the parking lot. Guy behaved like a real a-hole. I have had other good experiences with other cops so I guess it all evens out. In my experience the lower the IQ, the quicker they are to anger and eventually resort to violence. Unfortunately the dumb ones generally never get promoted off the street so they're the ones you end up dealing with.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-12-2014, 7:50 AM Reply   
The fourth amendment prevents the government from "unreasonable search and seizure" which requires probable cause for a search or seizure. The police simply were stopping drivers to visually check for signs of drinking and driving. They were not searching anybody's person or property and nobody would be detained if they didn't break the law.

You could also argue that driving late at night on a national holiday gives probable cause for police to inspect vehicles for drunk drivers.

Your "rights" are not absolute. Being inconvenienced for the sake of safety has been a precedent in our country.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-12-2014, 8:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_A View Post
You don't have to cooperate when you get pulled over? Good luck pulling that card if you ever come to Texas!
Same in Florida. You can get arrested as soon as you refuse to roll down your window. The next command will be step out of the car. Anyone who refuses can also be charged with resisting arrest.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-12-2014, 9:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
The fourth amendment prevents the government from "unreasonable search and seizure" which requires probable cause for a search or seizure. The police simply were stopping drivers to visually check for signs of drinking and driving. They were not searching anybody's person or property and nobody would be detained if they didn't break the law.
By their very nature they are suspicionless investigatory seizures and violate the 4th.

Quote:
You could also argue that driving late at night on a national holiday gives probable cause for police to inspect vehicles for drunk drivers.
You COULD argue that, but it wouldn't hold water once legally challenged.


Quote:
You don't have to cooperate when you get pulled over? Good luck pulling that card if you ever come.
You're required to obey a LAWFUL order. You're implying that by not submitting to every request he is breaking the law and that's not true. He doesn't have to answer any questions- and by refusing to do so he's being uncooperative, but he's not breaking the law..... not even in TX or FL.

He did have the window down far enough to communicate, that's all the law requires. You have no obligation to make their fishing expedition easier by making it easy for law enforcement to look inside your car.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-12-2014, 10:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
it's pretty clear how the state has been able to take control of the people by fear.

They'll never need to confiscate firearms, they've already been successful in confiscating your minds.
x 2
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-14-2014, 10:16 AM Reply   
This guy pretty much sums up the court ruling. This kind of reminds me of the old movies made about East Germany and Russia. http://www.hollinslegal.com/2013/07/...kpoints-legal/
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-14-2014, 2:18 PM Reply   
But Ron, the Wakeworld legal counselors say we are trained puppets X 2 if we don't take their advice.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-15-2014, 6:19 PM Reply   
One things for sure you're not going to win a Verbal judo contest with a Ape with a baton and a badge. I have seen this scenario play out much differently. And both sides can win if they know how to play by the rules.

In my opinion Leo's need to have better verbal judo skills. Simply repeating your order louder and more often does not mean you're right! Convince the citizen to do what you want by letting them know you have the right and the authority to issue the command you're trying to get them to obey.
If someone wants to know what they did wrong simply tell them.

I've seen videos where the Leo's are brilliant. They can disarm the citizen with their verbal skills. These officers should be promoted and acknowledged. When I see a Leo that is unemotional and professional even under attack. And works with in their powers And when has no choice left to open a can of whoop ass. That's when they get my full unconditional support
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       07-15-2014, 6:38 PM Reply   
That Hollinslegal document is fundamentally wrong because it is based on the assumption that the supreme court was correct in saying that the checkpoints are legal. The argument the SCOTUS used to come to this is that if there is enough public interest in preventing a particular type of crime, then the violation of our 4th amendment rights is OK. This is according to that Hollinslegal article. If there is truly that much interest in suspending constitutional rights to prevent a particular crime then the answer is to change the US and state constitutions. Oh I guess there isn't THAT much interest though. We all know that the supreme court isn't always correct. Just look at the whole corporations are people BS that came out of this court. I wouldn't trust any decision by the SCOTUS that runs along party lines.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-15-2014, 7:07 PM Reply   
When you are driving a vehicle on public highways I can see why the right the privacy should be limited. You are operating a machine that presents a known hazard to the public under certain conditions that the public has a need to know. You are lucky that you have any privacy at all when driving a car.
Old    Baitkiller (baitkiller)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-15-2014, 9:16 PM Reply   
John you certainly have a valid point; Driving is a privilege, not a right. A fact that is forgotten and abused by many. However even while enjoying a privilege I would hope to also enjoy my Constitutional rights No?
Old    Jarod Craig (wake26)      Join Date: Mar 2009       07-16-2014, 7:35 AM Reply   
I don't under stand why some people are so against cops trying to do there job. Why would you not want them to have DUI check points to catch people driving drunk. If they catch one person then that is one person that might not kill you or a family member. All these stupid people going out with cameras riding a fine line just to get in altercations with cops just so they can put a video up on youtube gets my goat. It is just like the guys walking around openly carrying AR-15 sure you have the right to but to do it on busy streets just for the sole purpose to get the cops called to investigate and try to get them riled up on camera so you can post it on the web. Just stupid in my book.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-16-2014, 8:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by baitkiller View Post
However even while enjoying a privilege I would hope to also enjoy my Constitutional rights No?
Which is why I'd defend your right to not have your trunk opened to find that dead body or kilo of cocaine. But rolling down your window to evaluate your condition to drive, not so much.
Old    Matt H (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-16-2014, 8:58 PM Reply   
Majority of Americans In the us have guns.... so much **** cops have to deal with on a daily basis and some asshat like this shows up and pulls I know my rights card... come the fruck on. These cops are out there on a daily basis saving life's. We all know their are bad apples in every bunch. Get a life brahhhh
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-18-2014, 9:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
so much **** cops have to deal with on a daily basis and some asshat like this shows up and pulls I know my rights card... come the fruck on.
So what?! Lots of people have crappy jobs. Most cops will tell you they love their job and couldn't see themselves doing anything else... ever ask yourself why?



Quote:
These cops are out there on a daily basis saving life's. We all know their are bad apples in every bunch. Get a life brahhhh
Be certain to tip your pizza delivery driver well, he made it to number 5 on Forbe's 10 most dangerous jobs...... Cop? failed to make the list. I bet they destroy more lives than they save.

Firemen save lives.
Old    Red (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-19-2014, 7:51 AM Reply   
m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jOqOlETcRU
Old    Matt H (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-19-2014, 9:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
So what?! Lots of people have crappy jobs. Most cops will tell you they love their job and couldn't see themselves doing anything else... ever ask yourself why?





Be certain to tip your pizza delivery driver well, he made it to number 5 on Forbe's 10 most dangerous jobs...... Cop? failed to make the list. I bet they destroy more lives than they save.

Firemen save lives.
Biotch please..... I'm not a cop cheer leader. One of my neighbors is a cop on long term leave and im sure he's going to get a punch to the face next time I see him on the street thats a personal issue all together and has nothing to do with him being a cop. Hes just a douche bag. Like stated before their are allot of bad apples in every bunch just like every industry. Know allot of cops that have helped out kids and youth over the years. So to say they wreck more lives than they help is just ignorant. I know the local cops in my area have raised millions in cancer research. AkA cops for cancer. How much money has you industry raised over the years you hero?
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       07-19-2014, 10:20 AM Reply   
I'm not a big fan of the police.
I don't understand the cops save lives bull**** either.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-19-2014, 11:00 AM Reply   
Ghetto name calling....cool!

Quote:
So to say they wreck more lives than they help is just ignorant.
Is it?
You're probably not old enough to remember, but there was a time when a police officer was more concerned with correction than punishment. Now? They're trained that everyone is out to kill them so the retarded kid down the street gets pulled over for no bike light during daylight hours and placed in handcuffs while two cars block the street so they check him for warrants.... a bike light.
Youtube is FULL of police encounters where the cop(s) is corrupt, or abuses his public trust/authority. Sir, THAT is the criminal... No, it's worse than a criminal.. That is a maggot. Narcissistic maggot. A few bad apples you say? A few bad apples isn't what keeps the internet flush in rogue cop videos... and they're just the unfortunate ones who were caught on camera. Imagine the number!!
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       07-19-2014, 11:24 AM Reply   
My business was being broken into a few months ago at 3am.
Can you guess who was in handcuffs, up against the wall, while the police raided their vehicle? If you guess the business owner, you guessed correctly.
We clearly came to the conclusion within the first 5 minutes that I was the store owner, and my gun was legally had. Was that good enough for them? Oh no. It sure wasn't. They proceeded to run my license, tags, insurance, the whole 9, while still continuing to treat me like a murdering thieve.
Did they ever once sweep the premises to figure out and investigate WHY THE ALARM WAS GOING OFF in the first place? Sure didn't.
It was much easier to nab the sitting duck, the guy with the keys to the building and the alarm code.
10 min detained, sure I can see that. After we establish I'm legit, let's go after the real problem at hand. Oh no, they saw dollar signs, and it was much less work, than actually solving the issue at hand, a burglar.
Then after all said and done, the officer told me "I can't legally tell you not to carry a weapon, because you are 100% within the law and legal, I can however, make it as uncomfortable of a situation as possible, so that you do not want to have a weapon"

Placer county at its finest.

A little food for thought. Imo, the police are not out to protect. At all. They will however, police anyone in their path, right or wrong.
They are out to enforce and collect. No to protect.
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       07-19-2014, 11:35 AM Reply   
I'm also sure I'm not the only one to ever be anchored in a cove, or floating in the water, waiting on your rider to get ready, and be approached by the sheriff (or whatever law enforcement institution that polices your waterway) approach you, and hassle you with a "routine check up" "for your own safety" just to make sure you are legit.
If I'm not doing anything negligent, please, leave me alone. I do not need the law's help to keep myself, nor my vessel safe.
Old    Matt H (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-19-2014, 1:36 PM Reply   
This threads got arm sleeves written all over it.
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-19-2014, 2:18 PM Reply   
I'll just leave this here...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-19-2014, 2:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
This threads got arm sleeves written all over it.

Aha..
Attached Images
   
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-20-2014, 10:04 AM Reply   
They do both good and bad. I have had very few run ins with police but firm courtesy goes a long way. Know your rights, but greet enforcement with the respect they deserve.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       07-20-2014, 11:41 AM Reply   
I tend to not have many run ins with cops since I'm not as young and stupid as I once was.
When I do, they tend to be brief and handled in quick and polite manner.
Normally it goes where they explain while they are there and talking to me in the first place, most of the time they will ask for my ID, this is where I hand them my ID and CHL as required by state law. At this point I typically notice their tone change and they are a little more relaxed and polite. They also have never called in my license or looked it up in the computer since I have gotten my CHLs. They know at that point that you have already been background checked, clean of anything that would bar you from one, and are most likely not a threat to them.
The conversation is normally a, "be safe", "knock it off", or "just wanted to let you know", type of conversation from that point in, where the direction it was heading beforehand was normally not looking as friendly.

I am always courteous, polite, and answer any questions they may have. If they say I am doing something I'm not, and I think I'm in the right, I will explain why. If they still think that I'm not, that's when the above exchange occurs.

For instance, The 8th of July, me and my son were lighting fireworks off in WA outside of city limits because
1)we couldn't set them off legally in OR, where we spent the 4th, and
2)we were told by the fireworks stand that they were only legal on the 4th in the city, but in the county were legal up until the 8th.
Well the cop drove by and paused for a bit, we were still setting them off. The cop pulled up, but no lights on and watched for a few minutes, still setting them off. He comes up to me who is lighting them and tells me they are illegal. Now my parents literally live on the city limit line favoring the county side. I proceed to tell him we are in county, outside of city limits, and we were informed that they were legal until the 8th, being it's our last day to do them, we are doing them.
He then tells me that he knows we're in county, but we are still past the date (which he doesn't know off hand) and that it's illegal now.
He gets out his ticket book and asks for my ID. I'm expecting a fine at this point. He asks for my ID, I give him my ID and CHL, he looks it over, gives it back. He puts away his ticket book and pulls out his notepad. He writes down my name and tells me that now that I know, to put them away and if they have to come back for fireworks they'll fine me. He makes a quick joke about at least I got some in tonight and then he leaves.
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       07-20-2014, 6:05 PM Reply   
I can't believe how different the direction of this thread is going vs a similar thread on wb.com. I'm surprised that the conservative leaning audience of ww.com approves of our massive police presence these days.

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewto...6eaa41eb670d48
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-20-2014, 6:21 PM Reply   
'Bout the same as that thread... There are ebbs and flows...

That said, I'm in the camp, like any field....there are good and bad. I have no intrinsic issue with the profession.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-20-2014, 10:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfadam View Post
I can't believe how different the direction of this thread is going vs a similar thread on wb.com. I'm surprised that the conservative leaning audience of ww.com approves of our massive police presence these days.

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewto...6eaa41eb670d48
Based on some of the comments it seems not so conservative. Reality is tht it shows the difference between conservative and libertarian.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-22-2014, 12:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
I'm surprised that the conservative leaning audience of ww.com approves of our massive police presence these days.

I'm not surprised at all that conservatives approve of massive police presence. They're not much different than the liberals who look to government as their god. The difference is only to whom they cater their welfare handouts- Liberals to social programs and conservatives to the bankers.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-22-2014, 11:35 PM Reply   
I'm extremely conservative but it really bothers me to see any abuse or bad behavior by law enforcement. It should be prosecuted just like any other crime.

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