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Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-25-2014, 11:48 AM Reply   
I currently have a sea ray 180. I found a decent deal on a 2007 outback dd. I am not sure about the wake and if we could surf with the moomba. It has do ballast. But has the tower and cruise. How and what will be the difference from my sea ray? I also found a a 2007 supreme sky vdrive v220 but it is more money but if it is gonna be a better boat I would step up for it.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-25-2014, 12:06 PM Reply   
That Supreme would be a way better boat. The Outback is not a good surfing DDrive. At least from what I've heard. I've never surfed either of them. Plus, those Outbacks are very low and quite small. The Supreme would be a much better fit.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-25-2014, 12:24 PM Reply   
I second this. Supremes have a reputation of having a decent surf wake too. You can surf with a DD, but it is some work and even with some plumbed ballast, you will still have sacks on the floor/seats. A V-drive is much more suited to surf than a D-drive.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-25-2014, 12:30 PM Reply   
What do you think is a fair price for the supreme. It has tower ballast. But no cruise, heater, shower.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-25-2014, 12:31 PM Reply   
How many hours, what's the condition of the gel, interior, etc.?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-25-2014, 12:52 PM Reply   
Pretty sure the V220 doesn't have a deeper V hull like most of hte other Supremes. That said it is a vdrive so getting weight in it will be easier than a direct drive and you will be able to hide it. I don't think the V220 has all that much freeboard for a vdrive but it is certainly better than an outback DD. I believe the v220 is a narrow boat and from what I remember(other wakeworlders who have had this boat(Miguel)) the boat throws a good/steep wakeboard wake.

I would say a good condition low to medium hour V220 is worth anywhere from 25-30k unless it is a horrible color combo. If you can get for under 25k you are doing very good.

Last edited by polarbill; 05-25-2014 at 12:55 PM.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-25-2014, 1:16 PM Reply   
I am going to see the tomorrow it is red and white. Only 91 hours. Original owner. He wants 33500 but I would Def like to be under 30. The Moomba Is In Great Shape With 170 Hours. Could prob get for 20 that why I was willing to check it out even tho I would like a v drive.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-25-2014, 1:18 PM Reply   
http://spokane.craigslist.org/boa/4461505465.html
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-25-2014, 1:25 PM Reply   
unless your a bit time slalom buy do not buy a DD just dont do it!!! Find an old 205v or old 210 just my opinion.
Old    Tim (dukeno1)      Join Date: May 2006       05-25-2014, 1:55 PM Reply   
That boat looks super clean.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-25-2014, 2:05 PM Reply   
That V220 looks nice. Very clean. Not that it should have any affect on what you can get the boat for but if the seller is the original owner and he bought the boat in 2008 or 2009 he likely paid around 30k for that boat new. After the market had the bottom drop out there were dealers selling new repo's of those for about 30k. Might mean the guy will sell for less than it is worth. I think that is probably right around a 30k boat.

The simple fact is that in 2007 it was probably at the bottom or near bottom of the list of fit and finish and that one is as stripped down as one can be. That said there aren't many 2007 vdrive wakeboarding boats you can get for 30k right now. Especially with really, really low hours and in good shape. If it all checks out and is in good shape offer him 27.5k as a starting point.

I found the outback ad. It is a nice looking boat and a good price. The problem is the boat is basically a big ski boat that is meant for the family that wants to ski 90% of the time and wakeboard 10% of the time. Just might not be the right boat if you want to wakeboard and surf.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-25-2014, 2:17 PM Reply   
http://kpr.craigslist.org/boa/4472593433.html

Terrible ad and hilarious picture but another 07 V220. A little less and might have more options.
http://wenatchee.craigslist.org/boa/4441923830.html

I think this is in Seattle but great looking boat and most had a nice cover, PP, triple ballast, wakeplate, nice stereo, heater, etc... Price is about right in my opinion. Maybe a little high actually.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/4457125219.html
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-25-2014, 2:43 PM Reply   
Thanks I was kinda thinking the same thing about the supreme.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-25-2014, 3:38 PM Reply   
Si I guess my question is how disappointed would I really be with the moomba. I am coming from a 17.5 foot sea ray with a 4 cylnder. Would the wake and over all drive ability be worst?
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-25-2014, 4:19 PM Reply   
Going to a direct drive, the driveabilty will be great. Direct drive boats handle like Ferraris on the water with their even weight distribution.
The wake tends to be flatter on a direct drive. They are designed for slalom skiing where you want a flat wake, not for wakeboarding or surfing where you want a bigger wake. You are essentially working against yourself if your goal is to surf.
As I said before, I guarantee you will have sacks on the floor surfing a DD, there is no way around it without doing a custom build and sacrificing seating space in the process or building things to hide the sacks that still take up the same space.
If you are looking to buy a boat for surfing and you are looking to pay around 20, there are some better options out there. You definitely want to get a V-Drive if you can at all afford it. The fact that you are looking and even considering a Supreme at over $30k means you have a lot of options out there between those two price points.

Also, I know it's not real close to you, but Seattle and Portland are doable as far as a drive to get the right boat. Here are some in your price range that would work well for you

$20k Centurion
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/boa/4473424945.html
$21k Centurion, I prefer the other one because of the lower price and the weird bow this one has
http://yakima.craigslist.org/boa/4485286735.html
$25K MB Sport
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bod/4482982327.html
$28k Moomba Outback V-DRIVE
http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/4472312175.html
$26k Supra
http://spokane.craigslist.org/bod/4427851290.html
$17k Bayliner Wake Challenger V-Drive
http://spokane.craigslist.org/boa/4455811014.html
$30k Mastercraft 210
http://moseslake.craigslist.org/bod/4484936144.html

and just for kicks
1993 Sea-Ray 29 foot walk around with Twin engines, 2 VDrives. It is an inboard in your pricerange and they do have pics of a guy surfing it lol
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/4477214623.html
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-26-2014, 9:37 AM Reply   
Do yourself a huge favor and forget about that Moomba completely. It is not meant to surf or wakeboard. As mentioned it is just not abdecent wakeboard boat. The newer outback LS hull is a different story.

You are already talking surfing. That Moomba has a super low freeboard ( meaning it rides very low in the water. Once you throw weight in there you are going to be inches from taking in water for surfing. To me it's not a big enough upgrade from what you have to justify any money. Your wakeboard wake in that 18 ft sea ray can be just as big with weight.

That Supreme is dam near brand new. However there is a not a huge market for Supremes and they are not a huge well sought after boat. That particular red one is stripped to the bare minimum. I wouldn't pay anything above 29k. However on the flip side you will be hard pressed in that price range to find a more current year model in that condition for that price. So that consideration must also be made. You have a chance at getting a pretty new boat at a price that you can make you're own when you get the extra $$. You can add stereos, automated ballast, and perfect pass at anytime when the funds become available. However as a boat owner who takes out non boat owner frequently. Put perfect pass in before you even hit the water. It will allow you to enjoy the boat so much more with others behind the wheel . It's worth every penny

Take it from the guys on here and do it right the first time. Go v-drive and be done. If you buy that Moomba you are going to say to yourself everyday after the first 2 weeks of use and ownership, "man I shoulda bought that v-drive".

Last edited by xstarrider; 05-26-2014 at 9:40 AM.
Old    Case (HushPuff)      Join Date: Feb 2014       05-27-2014, 6:28 AM Reply   
I own an 07 Mobius DD, every time I go out I wish I had a V-Drive. Every. Damn. Time.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-27-2014, 9:34 AM Reply   
I think that Supreme is just what you're looking for. A boat that has aftermarket this, that and the other thing is the wrong way to go unless you know exactly what you're looking for. Ideally, your looking for a simple, well cared for, unmolested v-drive. It would be next to impossible to find one in your price range that has a really nice ballast system, really nice stereo and a really nice tower. Generally what you're going to find in a boat that "has it all" is a crappy ballast system, a used up stereo system and a wobbly tower. In a boat with a basic stereo, a decent tower and no ballast, you can do the upgrades yourself and do it right. Buy a good boat and then build it into a great wake machine.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-27-2014, 10:19 AM Reply   
Fence, I think that is great advice. Too often I hear people say theyou are looking for a boat under 20 or 30 and have a laundry list of options already on the boat when they should reply be looking for the right boat in the right condition. While things like pp, ballast and stereo all cost money it is easier/cheaper to add or replace those things than reversing the affects of abuse/neglect. There is also the problem of ending up in a boat that doesn't suit their needs and then there is nothing they can do other than wish they had a different boat. Like you said, especially in a 7+ year old boat things like pp, ballast and stereo are all probably outdated, crappy and/or broken. There is a good chance they will need to be replaced anyways.
Old    Eric Scott (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-27-2014, 11:53 AM Reply   
I'd stay away from the moomba dd. A friend of mine has one and I've ridden behind it several times. It has one of the most annoying characteristics of any boat I've ever ridden behind - regardless of the distribution of ballast, the hull leans over in the direction the rider is edging. So you edge away from the wake, and the boat leans over, and then you edge towards the wake, and the boat flattens off, which changes the shape of the wake as you approach it. It makes for a gnarly approach and a terribly inconsistent wake. Also, it has a super, super low freeboard. If you're not moving and a 25 foot boat goes by at average speed the wake will swamp the moomba's bow if the bow is facing it. I'd take a 15 year old X Star with 2000 hours on it or one of the early v-drive nautiques over the moomba any day. That Supreme, however, looks like a really nice boat.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-27-2014, 4:48 PM Reply   
I took a look at the supreme last night. It is a nice clean boat. But I just can't get past how bear bones it is. But I will say the moomba is off the list. I would really hate to give more than 28 for the supreme. And just feeling him out I don't think he would go that low.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-27-2014, 5:22 PM Reply   
So I have a friend that might be selling his loaded. 01 malibu sunscape lsv 21.5 foot. V drive. 215 hours. Only thing it doesn't have is ballast and tower. How would it be for wakeboarding and surfing.
Old    Wayne Burcham (aapwayneo2001)      Join Date: Feb 2013       05-29-2014, 4:36 PM Reply   
1600# all on one side...11mph...not very long

Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-29-2014, 8:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravity View Post
I took a look at the supreme last night. It is a nice clean boat. But I just can't get past how bear bones it is.
IMHO when you're talking 8+ year old boats you can beat "clean" and "bare bones". All the electronic gadgets and bling are what breaks. My freind with an '07 X2 has way more misc problems than I have with my 2000 230 VRS. No major mechanical problems or anything with either boat but stupid, irritating and expensive problems due to mastercraft getting fancy with stuff. A prime example is how his gauge faces and dash switches keep cracking and failing due to the fancy billet aluminum trim expanding and contracting. His interior is falling apart mostly due to how fancy it is with extra seams everywhere, metallic and textured vinyl. He was quoted like $8500 just for skins (+DIY install) which looks way worse than my interior that's 7 years older (I've had 3 cushions redone).

Not saying you should buy that particular boat but there's a lot to be said for a simple interior that will last longer and be cheaper to redo, analog gauges, minimal unnecessary moving parts, and standardized off the shelf parts like switches. I want perfect pass, a simple ballast system with standard bags, a good hull and reliable gauges that will alert me if there's actually a problem. Keep the touch screens and the proprietary bling parts that break and end up being crazy expensive and/or discontinued. Keep all these stupid computerized, centrally managed gauge systems that seem to cry wolf due to their own failure more often than giving you valid info. Keep the hard blast tanks that are never large enough for anyone's needs (at least not on this forum), and the idiot timers that try to save your pump impellers but cause intense frustration when you try to add extra ballast.

Last edited by Jeff; 05-29-2014 at 8:48 PM.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-29-2014, 9:11 PM Reply   
I couldn't agree more with Jeff. My boat a 2000 XStar with apprx 1200hrs has seen the shop on 2 ocassions. One for an alternator issue, and the other to have vinyl redone. It's rock solid, simple, and very easy to work on and trouble shoot. My pumps go on when I flip the switch and if when I flip it back. No computer to deploy tabs and automatically try and adjust ballast off of timers rather then just watching the overflows. My vinyl was easy to source, and the thing runs perfectly. I know my dealer hates me because I refuse to upgrade. However simple and dependent seem to go hand and hand.

As far as the 21lsv That would be great boat would do everything you're looking for. At your price range it's as good as any of the boats you will find if it was cared for.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2014, 10:29 PM Reply   
Ok thanks all. But I gotta ask. How much more freeboard does the vdrive outback have over the dd. I looked at the archive on the site and it seems to be only an inch . Is this correct? I hate to beat a dead horse but for some reason my wife kinda likes that moomba dd. Also is the hull itself different or what other models used that hull?
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-30-2014, 12:28 AM Reply   
Great points by Jeff.

I've been in a couple of Outback Ddrives. There's so many other better boats, dude. If you don't like that Supreme, keep lookin.
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-30-2014, 4:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
He was quoted like $8500 just for skins (+DIY install) which looks way worse than my interior that's 7 years older (I've had 3 cushions redone).
Thats kind of bad info to post. That was obviously a fluke overkill quote. My entire boat base quote for new upholstery was like 2k. Even with the upgraded new mastercraft vinyl, new bow filler cushion, and center seat it was 2500. 8500 is just insulting.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-30-2014, 5:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamburell View Post
Thats kind of bad info to post. That was obviously a fluke overkill quote. My entire boat base quote for new upholstery was like 2k. Even with the upgraded new mastercraft vinyl, new bow filler cushion, and center seat it was 2500. 8500 is just insulting.
That was the only quote he got and he was so turned off by the price he opted to spray paint his vinyl with that AutoZone vinyl/fabric paint. I haven't seen it yet but I have low expectations. The quote was from the MC dealer. I know they're not equipped for vinyl work so they either were outsourcing it and charging a markup or that was for OE skins. My point was that a more complex interior with unusual vinyl will, all other things held equal, likely be less durable and more expensive to replace.
Old    Jman (jmanolinsky)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-30-2014, 10:12 AM Reply   
Here's another data point, Chris. I have a 2000 Moomba Mobius DD that I bought 10 years ago. It's in my profile picture. It had 140 hours on it then and now has 840 hours on it. The boat had not been taken care of by the previous owner and I put new vinyl on about 5 years ago. The only other problem I have had with the boat was replacing the water pump last year. It's not as fancy as the other boats, but it will do most of what the other boats do and costs much less. I'm not trying to persuade you to buy my brand of boat or any other. Just don't buy more boat than you can honestly afford.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-30-2014, 4:34 PM Reply   
Thanks man. Can I ask how it has been with 7-8 people in it and have you surfed. Also how does it do on bigger lakes. Does it take water over the front alot. These are really the ?s I have about this boat. Thanks
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-31-2014, 5:30 AM Reply   
The Outback V was a different hull than the Outback DD. The outback v may only have one more inch of freeboard on paper but in a boat world it's very noticeable. The outback v will keep you much drier. Especially with 7-8 people on a rough lake. You will get destroyed in that outback dd.

With that said those years of Moomba also had some of the lowest freeboard/ gunwale measurements in the industry. Any big 3 boat of that era will have more freeboard for sure and feel much deeper inside. If you're concerned about freeboard and rough water ride look Centurion Lightning/hurricane /elite v . Get that d drive Moomba out of the mix. You will get swamped in it. I can almost guarantee it was one of the lowest profile boats on the water in that era. The boat was built with a flat wake as a priority not as a surf/wakeboat.
Old    Nick (ironcross25)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-01-2014, 6:48 AM Reply   
I have a 05 outback dd. this boat hates chop. get a v drive i wish i did. with that said I like the boat. Im not a great wakeboarder so I get by fine with a little weight. Surfing I need more weight to not use a rope. but I'm not entering any comps, just a weekend warrior.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-01-2014, 7:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcross25 View Post
I have a 05 outback dd. this boat hates chop. get a v drive i wish i did. with that said I like the boat. Im not a great wakeboarder so I get by fine with a little weight. Surfing I need more weight to not use a rope. but I'm not entering any comps, just a weekend warrior.
Just because a boat is a vdrive doesnt mean it is automatically better in rough water. Hull shape and weight are the biggest factors and sometuing like a trim tab can help as well.
Old    Josh Schneider (jps120)      Join Date: Oct 2012       06-01-2014, 4:54 PM Reply   
I have a 2001 möbius direct drive and it handles chop awful. It will put out a decent wake for any novice to intermediate rider and you can surf behind it. It is a short wave but you can free ride easily. I would say hold out for a v drive becuase of the layout and storage is better in a v drive. Also Moombas of this era are definitely a lesser quality boat.
Old    Jman (jmanolinsky)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-02-2014, 8:53 AM Reply   
If you don't know what you are doing you will take water over the front. That said, it hasn't happened to me but a few times in ten years.

I would not want to be on a really big lake with rough conditions in my Mobius DD with 4 people in it, much less 7 or 8.
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-15-2014, 5:44 PM Reply   
Found a 2005 nautique 206 and 2001 wakesetter. Any thoughts?

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