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Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-01-2014, 11:27 AM Reply   
What do the Toggles control? Heater, Blower, Lights, Ballast, Wake Plate, and Ballast right?

Doesn't every Manufacturer with a screen still offer manual control of these items? I know MC, Moomba and Supra all do.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       05-01-2014, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
What do the Toggles control? Heater, Blower, Lights, Ballast, Wake Plate, and Ballast right?

Doesn't every Manufacturer with a screen still offer manual control of these items? I know MC, Moomba and Supra all do.
Basically everything you can do on the dash, you can do with the switches. You have to upgrade to the touchscreen on the MC I think. Supra is standard with it.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       05-01-2014, 12:16 PM Reply   
Tige has all the switches as a reduntant system to the tige touch. They are hidden behind a panel below steering wheel.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-01-2014, 12:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Supra does that with their touchscreen dash and then toggles that control everything too
So does MasterCraft, but it is not exactly the same as what I mean...... In a SC/SA or a MC, the toggles still only signal to the control module. They are not hard wired, and they don't have analog gauges. It's not exactly a "manual" system when they simply allow you to flick a toggle instead of touch a screen. If the electronics get a glitch, you are stuck either way.

They do at least give you toggles though. It is certainly handy to be able to flick a toggle, and not have to change screens.....


Same deal with Tige....... Module fails, you are done.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-01-2014, 12:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Basically everything you can do on the dash, you can do with the switches. You have to upgrade to the touchscreen on the MC I think. Supra is standard with it.
The standard system in the MC is actually more manual than the upgraded screen. Less functions go through a control module.
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       05-01-2014, 12:39 PM Reply   
Eric (fixable), you are awesome. I really appreciate your insightful posts to help calm down the dogs around here and spread some real truth.

Personally, I couldn't step down from a Malibu to an Axis (had that opportinuty) or from MC x series to nxt series. I enjoy my gadgets and trimmings too much. That being said, this boat doesn't interest me because of the lack of stuff like billet aluminum, reversible pumps, vinyl options, etc... The "price point" boats are for a certain crew. A crew that is usually just getting into the sport or inboards. They know the MC name and MC is hoping that it translates into them paying a few thousand more for the the NXT over an AXIS, MB, Moomba, etc....
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-01-2014, 1:26 PM Reply   
Eric..actually with the Tige the switches under the dash have nothing to do with the module. They are there primarily for IF iT FAILS. There are only a few switches for vital things in case of a failure. I know there is a ballast drain switch for each pump, lights, bilge, blower and maybe a couple more. They are hidden behind the kick panel and not for normal use. Unfortunately all functions go thru the Tige touch normally. I wish they would just go back to normal switches. The manual gauges do run thru the Medallion unit though. With any of these screen based boats if the computer module goes your done. There are features to allow you to finish your day or get back to the dock, but you're sure not going to be able to keep using them like that. Most brands are offering 5 year warranty on all these screen based systems. I wonder how spend they are going to be to fix when they fail at year 6? Maybe I am old school, but I'd rather have gauges and switches. One piece of the technology I could do without.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-01-2014, 1:50 PM Reply   
Boardman- Trace those wires. They still go to the control module. They would get you out of trouble if the touchscreen failed, but not the control module.... Unless the '13 RZ4, that I added ballast pumps on, has a different setup than the rest.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       05-01-2014, 2:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
So does MasterCraft, but it is not exactly the same as what I mean...... In a SC/SA or a MC, the toggles still only signal to the control module. They are not hard wired, and they don't have analog gauges. It's not exactly a "manual" system when they simply allow you to flick a toggle instead of touch a screen. If the electronics get a glitch, you are stuck either way.

They do at least give you toggles though. It is certainly handy to be able to flick a toggle, and not have to change screens.....


Same deal with Tige....... Module fails, you are done.
Fairly certain that the entire dash can fail on the Supra and you can run the boat with the toggles cause I've heard from someone that had it happen. It still has analog gauges on both sides of the dash that will work as well. Again, could be wrong but my buddy told me that those toggles saved his ass along with the analog gauges
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-01-2014, 2:16 PM Reply   
I disagree that the Axis line if solely for a "certain crew" consisting of only people who are just getting into the sport. I, for example, have been riding for over a decade, and I love the Axis line. To me, the decision to buy an Axis verses a Bu, CC or MC boils down to money. I like options and frills too, but at some point, I'm just not going to pay for them when I can get what I need for enough less. I think the Axis buyers include people who have been in the sport for a looooong time, who value a great wake, but who cannot stomach or afford a 100k boat. Now that Axis offers surfgate, I'm leaning towards buying another. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a new LSV, I'm just not sure I can afford one right now.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-01-2014, 2:17 PM Reply   
I'm not 100% but I figured they weren't where they will run without even powering up the boat. As far as i know the module isn't powered until the key turns on, but those switches will run with the key in the off position. Either way, what i was saying is they are not designed to be a substitute for the touch screen, but an emergency use item.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-01-2014, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Fairly certain that the entire dash can fail on the Supra and you can run the boat with the toggles cause I've heard from someone that had it happen. It still has analog gauges on both sides of the dash that will work as well. Again, could be wrong but my buddy told me that those toggles saved his ass along with the analog gauges
If the little screen fails, yes. If the module that actually controls everything fails, no. A Supra has a central PDM (power distribution module) it takes input signals from the touchscreen, toggle switches, and the ECU, and then controls the appropriate outputs. 2 of these outputs are the gauges on the dash. While they display an analog measurement, they are, in fact, a digitally controlled guage. They are wired to the PDM, and take signals from it, to display a reading. If the PDM fails, you will have no ballast control, no speed control (in a Murphy system for sure. Not sure about medallion), no gauges, no lights, no heater, and on some boats.... No engine start.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-01-2014, 2:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
I'm not 100% but I figured they weren't where they will run without even powering up the boat. As far as i know the module isn't powered until the key turns on, but those switches will run with the key in the off position. Either way, what i was saying is they are not designed to be a substitute for the touch screen, but an emergency use item.

The control module has power all the time. It is actually what decides to send power to everything else, when you hit the key.

They didn't used to be like this. The ballast control module, speed control module, etc., were separate. Now they all went to a PDM. It is a lot more simple than the old way (from an installation standpoint), and it minimizes the number of modules in these new boats, which is a good thing. However, if it dies..... You are dead in the water. Not to mention, the average PDM costs about 5k to replace.

Last edited by Fixable; 05-01-2014 at 2:36 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-01-2014, 2:46 PM Reply   
Thats what I am worried about as these systems get older and start to fail. No one cares when they are new and have warranty, but after the 5 years runs out, you get the bill. Plus with all these tough screens being new technology who knows what their longevity is in the marine environment.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-01-2014, 3:05 PM Reply   
^ Scary to think about. A 5yo inboard is not old at all. Think about the look on the poor individuals face, when they tell him he needs to drop 6 or 7k, because a little plastic box $hit out.
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-01-2014, 4:22 PM Reply   
Oh I love my '07 XStar
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       05-01-2014, 6:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snork View Post
Oh I love my '07 XStar
I hear ya Snork, I love my 06 Star!
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-01-2014, 9:26 PM Reply   
i stopped watching the live feed the moment Zane said "bi-ducer" hahaha
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-01-2014, 11:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
Boat show sticker on my boat was 83k msrp... of course I am not going to post my exact deal on here, and yes the wake is very much close to the G when loaded pound for pound I have ridden both along with the new xstar and pretty much every other boat on the market. The G unloaded is 1k lbs heavier than the a24 and factory ballast is 500lbs more than the a24 with plug and play. When we made up the difference and had 1000 over plug and play it was every bit as big as the G i rode with the 3k full and 5 passengers, was the fit and finish and interior to the level of the nautique? No. But I am a young guy and it is perfect for me and in my price range.

The NXT seems like a nice boat man but 83k msrp is HIGH whether it was 63k out the door or not.
yup ^^^^^

Rode a G, stock plus 400 lead. Wake is huge, no doubt, loved it, has become my favorite wake after just 1 set… however, the A24 with stock and plug n play is RIGHT THERE next to the G. So very close. The G21 I rode with stock ballast plus 400 gives the boat a total dry weight of 8450 lbs…. The A24 I rode with stock tanks 600's in rear and the under front seat ballast (stated at 950) no wedge has a total dry weight of 7600 (if the bow sack is actually 950). The wake on the A24 is very similar in shape and size, just a tiny bit smaller. Add another 1000 lbs into the A24 and boom, you have a G esque wake for half the price. It really is that good of a wake.

With that said, it is amazing how great the G wake is and all you have to do is flip 3 switches.. in a few minutes, the tanks are full and you have a PRO sized wake. Incredible. Really.

Mastercraft is behind… and falling, do doubt about it in my mind. In my opinion, Nautique is number 1, hands down, and Axis is #2… solely by the quality of wake.

top 5 wakes, as I see it.
1. G23
2. G21
3. G25 (G21 and G25 could be interchangeable)
4. A24
5. Xstar… the one MC no longer makes :bang head:
6. A22

Yes, I said top 5, but I love the A22 wake.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-02-2014, 7:08 AM Reply   
According to a poster on another site, the "Ready to Go" package may not include the surf system - instead, it purportedly consists of Cleats, Swivel Racks, Amp and Sub, Tracking Fins, Bimini, and tower speakers. Anyone know if this is correct?
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-02-2014, 7:13 AM Reply   
Funny you would put the old Star as #5, when the stock (+plug and play) wake of the new Star is an exact mirror image of the last gen Star with like 3k. The wakes couldn't be more similar.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       05-02-2014, 7:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
According to a poster on another site, the "Ready to Go" package may not include the surf system - instead, it purportedly consists of Cleats, Swivel Racks, Amp and Sub, Tracking Fins, Bimini, and tower speakers. Anyone know if this is correct?

Since the surf system is like 4K then I doubt it includes it
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-02-2014, 7:20 AM Reply   
Chatt looking at the pricing you posted I would say that is correct, that it does not. I'm basing this on the fact that the surf system lists at $3970 and the Ready to go at $5400. If it was included that would put them adding Cleats, swivel racks, amp, sub, tracking fins, bimini and tower speakers for $1400. Based on Others pricing $5400(I'm looking at 2 other brands option sheets and those options add in that ballpark) is about inline with what others charge for just those options. Heck I know the retail on my factory bimini alone was over $1000. The swivel racks are like another grand. Premium sound packs to add amps, sub, and towers are 2K+depending on brand.

$5400 actually sounds pretty fair for what you are getting even without the surf system. Pretty fair obviously being put in perspective against other manufacturers pricing. Because if you don't put it in perspective all this crap is expensive!!!

Last edited by boardman74; 05-02-2014 at 7:22 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-02-2014, 7:42 AM Reply   
So the 80k msrp looks more and more like a reality with no color upgrades.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-02-2014, 7:47 AM Reply   
That being said, if you can get 20% off msrp, you can get a nicely loaded, no-color upgraded, NXT20 for about $64k before dealer fees, prep and TTL. Whether that discount holds true or not remains to be seen. It is my understanding that on the lower priced brands offered by SC and BU, the MSRP's are often less inflated; therefore, there's less room to discount.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       05-02-2014, 8:21 AM Reply   
64K for a 20 foot boat with a 91 inch beam? No thanks....that's Mojo and A22 pricing
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-02-2014, 9:07 AM Reply   
^ Yes, a MasterCraft NXT is going to be 5k more than an A20. :mindblown:

There are lots of people that will buy this thing for 5k more than a Moomba or Axis.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-02-2014, 9:24 AM Reply   
I know around here you can buy a similarly optioned A20 in the low 50's….R20 and Moomba 20V for less. I'm guessing the difference is going to be 10K+. But arguably this may be a higher quality better built boat. Its going to be up to each individual consumer to decide if the 10K is worth it. If its supposed to be competing with the budget 20's it may fail as a lot of those people are in that 50K range because thats what they can afford. In that case they can't afford the additional 10K, it takes it out of the equation. Now if they just need a 20 because of size restrictions without a 50K budget then it may be a nice fit, but doesn't MC already produce a blinged out 20 foot offering?
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-02-2014, 9:49 AM Reply   
^ With the "ready to go package" being what it is..... It means that NXT is fairly well loaded up. The only way you are getting an A20, with the exact same options, for low 50s, is if the dealer is going backwards on it.......

Basically, the NXT build sheet that Chatt posted, is an almost loaded boat. Add $350.00 for UW lights...
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-02-2014, 10:18 AM Reply   
I think 10k plus is a fair delta as to the prices of a comparably equipped A20 and NXT20. We will know soon once people start actually ordering these boats.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-02-2014, 8:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
Funny you would put the old Star as #5, when the stock (+plug and play) wake of the new Star is an exact mirror image of the last gen Star with like 3k. The wakes couldn't be more similar.
That list is based off my experience and perception, "…as I see it." So yes, it is probably flawed in the eyes of an all-knowing wakeboard god, but its just my opinion.

As for the new Xstar, I have absolutely no experience with this boat. I have never seen one, let alone ridden behind one. If I ever ride it, then its possible it becomes #1 on my little list (highly doubt it though). My only knowledge of the wake is the terrible, completely terrible pictures of it, videos from PWT tournaments and tiny little clips of it from the very few Harley and Shota riding shorties. The wake looks nothing like the old xstar. The old xstar looks thick and clean and meaty and big, and yes I have ridden it many times. The new xstar looks thick and dirty and lopsided and really big. I don't mind the off side washing, cuz I have seen slumping boats of all brands do this when you are down at a slow speed in relation to the ballast weight, but the foam on the lip (very nautique 230 esque) is terrible, and I see it all videos and most pictures (even though there are relatively none of either in comparison to the G) The only boat manufacturer that beats Mastercraft in the "debut a new flagship boat and DO NOT SHOW ANY WAKE PICTURES OR VIDEO category" is Tige and its new ASR.

That gives me and idea… heres a new list. Top 5 wake boats that nobody knows what the wake is like but can be purchased today, starting with the least amount of pictures/video in relation to cost.

1. Tige ASR
2. Mastercraft Xstar
3. Mastercraft NXT
4. Supra SC
5. MB F22
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-02-2014, 8:23 PM Reply   
again, just to clarify… the list is as I see it, it is a joke, to chuckle at, and then after you stop laughing, you begin to digest the list and realize that it has a whole lot of of truth to it, then you start to dissect the list, and realize that there are NO REAL VIDEO OR PICTURES OF AN ASR YET, and then you laugh at Silly Tige for being SO close, yet soooo far away from the big 3… then you realize that MC is in the big 3 and begin to wonder why. You look at the Xstar and NXT and all the other boats in their line, possibly the X 30 and X 25 are whats holding MC up on the podium, or maybe the special cross members on their stringer system, or maybe its because their boats are "just better"… then you shake al that nonsense off and come to realize that MC is still a Big 3 because of one thing, and one thing only…..the Last Generation Xstar… they are still riding its coattails of a legendary wake maker. The G, of course, is going to destroy that image and make everyone in a few years say, Xstar who, but until then, the big 3 is as follows. Nautique, Malibu, and the old xstar.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-02-2014, 8:58 PM Reply   
While we haven't seen the Supra SC wake in action yet you might as well have. It is basically the same hull(running surface) as the SA as far as I know. It obviously doesn't have the picklefork and has some extra chines towards the bow but of all intents and purposes the surface of the hull that is touching the water at wakeboard speeds is the same. Now the picklefork might allow for a little extra weight out over the front of the boat so the SC may need a few extra pounds in the bow.

Out of your list the Xstar is the weirdest one since it has been out for a full season plus some. The others are pretty new and the NXT is super new.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-02-2014, 10:17 PM Reply   
I have never rode a new supra as or sc. No dealers here in ky. My family had a 22ssv when I was young and learning. As for the new xstar... It really is a good wake. It is similar in size to the G or loaded a24 but reminds me of my old 210 or a 230It is amazing if u have a great driver paying attention but it is tough to keep clean. I would like to ride it again tho as our shop just had one for a few days and we got to take it out and slam it.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-06-2014, 8:26 AM Reply   



More $50k all day. Maybe dealers will really sell these at $50k. I mean, MC's being pretty explicit here with the whole - starting at "$50k" message. Not, starting in the $50's, or under $60k, etc. Hmmmm.
Old    Connor (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-06-2014, 9:24 AM Reply   
^ Agreed. Also, why Travis Pastrana in that video? I realize he's the nitro circus guru but why is he promoting MC and not not Parks or someone like that?
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-06-2014, 9:31 AM Reply   
more vids:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MasterCraftBoats/videos
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-06-2014, 9:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by iShredSAN View Post
^ Agreed. Also, why Travis Pastrana in that video? I realize he's the nitro circus guru but why is he promoting MC and not not Parks or someone like that?
MC uploaded 6 other commercials to go along with the one chatt uploaded. Parks is in most if not all of them.

To me it's a good move for MC to use Pastrana and Parks together. Their relationship through Red Bull and Nitro Circus will help MC and wake boarding get more exposure. Pastrana is almost a household name across the continent whereas Parks (while as awesome as he is) is a lesser known "brand." This could work out well for MC.
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-06-2014, 12:19 PM Reply   
thing puts out a sweet tube wake!
Old     (cheesesteak)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-06-2014, 7:01 PM Reply   
$50K all day? That video should have the boat on blocks in the driveway with no tower speakers or racks.

And selling it showing stuffed animals tubing? It looks like that damned Kia commercial with the stuffed rats.

Definitely targeting a specific market there.
Old    Tarek Richey (tarek)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-06-2014, 8:40 PM Reply   
It will be interesting to see how this boat does in certain markets. The dealership I work for sold mastercraft since 92. As of now there is no current mastercraft dealer here in Boise. It became a hard sale and we couldnt spend the money to floor and inventory these boats. It would have put us out of business. We were also selling Nautique at the same time and it just wasnt working out. The market and customers have shown a trend of buying smaller boats, saving money on all the fancy gadgets etc, and buying something that is easy to operate. The NXT could be a good thing if the price is really fair. And it might be hard to justify when you compare the costs associated to some others like AXIS and MB.

I agree though that there are people who know and can afford whatever they want and that is great. You will have those guys that have been sold on these brands for whatever the reasons. But its interesting to see some of our customers who have lots of cash save it and buy something else that isnt a "Big 3" household name.
Old    Eric B (chillaxin)      Join Date: Jun 2012       05-06-2014, 9:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarek View Post
It will be interesting to see how this boat does in certain markets. The dealership I work for sold mastercraft since 92. As of now there is no current mastercraft dealer here in Boise. It became a hard sale and we couldnt spend the money to floor and inventory these boats. It would have put us out of business. We were also selling Nautique at the same time and it just wasnt working out. The market and customers have shown a trend of buying smaller boats, saving money on all the fancy gadgets etc, and buying something that is easy to operate. The NXT could be a good thing if the price is really fair. And it might be hard to justify when you compare the costs associated to some others like AXIS and MB.

I agree though that there are people who know and can afford whatever they want and that is great. You will have those guys that have been sold on these brands for whatever the reasons. But its interesting to see some of our customers who have lots of cash save it and buy something else that isnt a "Big 3" household name.
Waterski Pro Shop isn't the MC dealer anymore??? As of when? Interesting that you say you were selling MC and Nautique at the same time. I though Gilbert Lake and now Idaho Water Sports were the only Nauti dealers in the Boise\Caldwell area. I don't remember Pro Shop ever selling Nauti Don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to be a dick.

I just bought a 2014 A22 and seeing preliminary numbers on the NXT I don't think I would have even considered it. Same price as my A22 and less options.

Last edited by chillaxin; 05-06-2014 at 9:13 PM. Reason: add more content
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-06-2014, 9:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillaxin View Post
Waterski Pro Shop isn't the MC dealer anymore??? As of when? Interesting that you say you were selling MC and Nautique at the same time. I though Gilbert Lake and now Idaho Water Sports were the only Nauti dealers in the Boise\Caldwell area. I don't remember Pro Shop ever selling Nauti Don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to be a dick.

I just bought a 2014 A22 and seeing preliminary numbers on the NXT I don't think I would have even considered it. Same price as my A22 and less options.
Looks like no more mastercraft at Waterski pro shop
http://www.thewaterskiproshop.com/

Here is an article from 2011 that says at that point they were selling MC, Nautique, MB and Centurion
http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/in-...-ski-pro-shop/

Last edited by polarbill; 05-06-2014 at 9:21 PM.
Old    Eric B (chillaxin)      Join Date: Jun 2012       05-06-2014, 9:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Looks like no more mastercraft at Waterski pro shop
http://www.thewaterskiproshop.com/

Here is an article from 2011 that says at that point they were selling MC, Nautique, MB and Centurion
http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/in-...-ski-pro-shop/
Learn something new everyday. I was just on their site a few days ago. Guess the MC on the front page threw me off.

I hate to see any dealers drop boats. Hopefully MB still works out for them.
Old    Tarek Richey (tarek)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-07-2014, 7:53 AM Reply   
yeah i should probably fix our front webpage so others don't get mixed up. Just crazy times in the valley with sales of recreational toys. The MB thing has been working out good which has led to new boat sales again. For a while there we weren't doing many MC, Nautiques, and Centurions.
Old    Justin (jrw160)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-07-2014, 8:20 AM Reply   
I got a quote of $70k plus prep and tax from my dealer. I think you could easily get over $80k with tandem trailer, saltwater package, advanced audio, tower speakers, metal flake gelcoat, etc.

Here were the options:
Colored hull bottom
Colored deck 1
Colored dash
Teak platform
Surf package (attitude plate, wake shaping device, stock ballast)
Convenience package (radio, swivel racks, depth finder, mooring cover, bimini, bow and stern cleats)
Dual battery switch
Heater
Acrylic walkthough door
Tracking fins
Single axle trailer
Spare tire
Boat buddy
Aluminum tread plate
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       05-07-2014, 8:32 AM Reply   
Still high for basic options and a 20ft boat on a single axel basic trailer.
Old    Scotty Mo (AlbertaSurfer)      Join Date: May 2014       05-07-2014, 8:43 AM Reply   
There is some serious collusion in the boating world man. There's nothing about an NXT on a single axle trailer that makes it worth $70k. A market will determine a products value by deciding what a customer is willing to pay for something. Are we all really forking out wads of money for stripped down boats that the cost of a new boat is this high?

Personally, I feel like MC has priced this boat right out of it's target market. Why spend $70k on a watered down boat when a low hour X2 of a couple years vintage could be had for less? Are there any benefits to the NXT hull that make it a better buy than a used X2 or similar? An X10 or X30 will surf better, and have better options. Unless having a brand new boat is priority one, I just couldn't justify the purchase.

Now, I get that it's in the price range of similar boats, but that's where my first comment comes into play. I just don't understand how and 'entry level' boat with relatively lackluster options is priced 6 times more than an entry level car...
Old    Mike (zimme)      Join Date: Feb 2013       05-07-2014, 8:53 AM Reply   
You're talking retail prices here. Once you take off the 20% markup, the 70k boat goes to 58,300.
Old    Brian (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       05-07-2014, 8:54 AM Reply   
Even though it's an entry level MC, the MC brand and inboards in general are not entry level boats. Bayliners and Tahoes are entry level boats, when your talking new sales. That list of options above is super luxury bling compared to a Bayliner. I still think it's a lot to pay for a new 20' boat and the owners will probably be looked down on by owners of higher cost MC, similar to how Mercedes Benz owners refer to the C class as the common class Mercedes. I think I'll probably see more G21s on the lake this summer than NXTs. I suppose time will tell.
Old    Mike (zimme)      Join Date: Feb 2013       05-07-2014, 8:59 AM Reply   
I don't think it's that bad considering where the boat market was and is currently.

For example, my 2006 Supra 20V had an MSRP of roughly 47k back in 2006, when the economy was still "strong". That's a boat that had the GG package so it came with ballast, PP, some other things as well. Has a heater, tower speakers, sub, amp, Full snap cover, bimini, FB swim deck, etc. Back in 2006 I'm sure that was expensive to people as well, but you get a lot for the money.

Same thing goes here, and you get the MC build quality, a 5 year warranty, and Ilmore powerplant and the resale of the MC name plate, with some customization available for those that want a little more. Where else do you get all of that for 50-60k?
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       05-07-2014, 9:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimme View Post
You're talking retail prices here. Once you take off the 20% markup, the 70k boat goes to 58,300.

I don't think a quote from a dealer is full MSRP. I think you're just gonna have to deal with the fact that this 20 foot boat with a 91 inch beam is going to be sold in high 60's - low 70's when decently optioned. It'll be "50K all day" if you get it with no options and no trailer. But hey, at least they include the tower and engine.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-07-2014, 9:15 AM Reply   
Justin, is that actually what they would sell you that boat for or a list price quote? did you see what list was on it compared to the quote? The NXT is a heavy boat it seems to be riding on a single axle trailer. probably ok if just towing short distances but I wouldn't want to tow it very far or regularly with a single axle.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-07-2014, 9:16 AM Reply   
This was posted on the Malibu forum:
Quote:
I just got a quote back from Texas mastercraft, MSRP @ $58,140.

Midnight Black Hull - $730

Deck Colour 1 Lime Green - $730

Floor Covering - Flat Carpet - $730

Surf package - $5655

Convenience Package - $4540

Sea Strainer - $230

Flush Kit - $450

Tracking Fins - $450

Transom Remote - $280

Swim Platform Fibreglass - $280

Underwater lights - $350

Dual battery Switch - $650

Installed batteries - $670

Trailer - $4940

Lo Pro Black Wheels -$1150

Runway lights - $190

Transom straps - $190



$81,050

Their dealer price is $69,900.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       05-07-2014, 9:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
This was posted on the Malibu forum:
So a base boat, without trailer, would take somwhere between a 10-15% discount from MSRP to get it for $50k.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-07-2014, 9:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
So a base boat, without trailer, would take somwhere between a 10-15% discount from MSRP to get it for $50k.
yep. 50k all day.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       05-07-2014, 9:39 AM Reply   
well, that's what "Starting at $50k" means... Nicely equipped is in the eye of the buyer. Like someone above said though. You're getting WAY more than any bayliner, or even any early x-star or whatever. You're getting 3 ballast tanks, perfect pass, tower and 320 HP V-8 at a minimum.

Last edited by boardjnky4; 05-07-2014 at 9:42 AM.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-07-2014, 9:42 AM Reply   
starting at 50k and "50K all day" mean 2 completely different things in my opinion. Starting at 50k is pretty self explanatory. 50k all day to me means that you can buy the boat for 50k with the things needed to actually use it. Things like a trailer.

Why the F is the dual battery switch $650? My god all those options are so completely inflated in price. over 1300 to have dual batteries. Hahahahahaha. flush kit 450, ahhahahahaha.

Last edited by polarbill; 05-07-2014 at 9:45 AM.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-07-2014, 9:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
well, that's what "Starting at $50k" means... Nicely equipped is in the eye of the buyer. Like someone above said though. You're getting WAY more than any bayliner, or even any early x-star or whatever. You're getting 3 ballast tanks, perfect pass, tower and 320 HP V-8 at a minimum.
you are getting all those other things with every other wake boat as well.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       05-07-2014, 10:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
you are getting all those other things with every other wake boat as well.
right, you are ... and the MAJORITY of those boats are all significantly more expensive than this.

Look, I'm not arguing that the boat is cheap. I'm also not arguing that it's any better than its competitors. I'm an A20 owner and AVID Axis fanboi. I'm just saying, when you look at the big picture, what you're getting here isn't half bad. You're getting a basic boat that is ready for wakeboarding.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If those options are so expensive to you (and I agree, they are outrageous), then install them yourself for 1/3 of the price. Boom, you just saved another few grand on your purchase!
Old    David Curtis (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-07-2014, 10:22 AM Reply   
Wakeworld is the home of Mastercraft Bashing..... It really dosent matter what you say about the boat people on this site will always spin it in a negative way.

The NXT is a great idea for MC with new boats pushing close to 100k. They claim that they arent cutting any corners or using a low grade material like seen in the Axis and moomba. So for the same price of an Axis and Moomba your getting a better build boat with a better interior material. Shoot if your paying a few grand more your still making out ahead and more than likely a better resale value because of the name.
Old    Tarek Richey (tarek)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-07-2014, 10:30 AM Reply   
Curious to see if Wayzata Investment Partners will keep Mastercraft alive really. Rumor has it that things aren't moving and shaking so well. The NXT could be their last effort to make some $$$.
Old    156452 (WLF)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-07-2014, 10:38 AM Reply   
Reading this thread cracks me up! The one thing I can say is that the wake boarding community is very passionate about their brands and their opinions. There are a lot of factors that go into an individual purchasing a certain boat...I wound say that 95% of the people ripping or commenting on wakes/value/appearance do not have the skill set to push any of these boats to their limits. I fall into this category as well...If any of you chatterboxes want to prove me wrong I'll be happy to give you a pull anytime, I actually really enjoy pulling pro-level guys, its super fun to watch.

Boats are stupid expensive these days, but also in my opinion one of the best ways you can spend your hard earned dollars. I hope everybody has a safe and fun summer!
Old    Justin (jrw160)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-07-2014, 11:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Justin, is that actually what they would sell you that boat for or a list price quote? did you see what list was on it compared to the quote? The NXT is a heavy boat it seems to be riding on a single axle trailer. probably ok if just towing short distances but I wouldn't want to tow it very far or regularly with a single axle.
I think that is a list price. The only price for an individual option he mentioned was that the colored hull was $730, which matches up with the quote from chatt's post.

The NXT is almost 500lbs lighter than the X2. Probably 90% of X2s I have seen are on a single axle.
Old    Scotty Mo (AlbertaSurfer)      Join Date: May 2014       05-07-2014, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
well, that's what "Starting at $50k" means... Nicely equipped is in the eye of the buyer. Like someone above said though. You're getting WAY more than any bayliner, or even any early x-star or whatever. You're getting 3 ballast tanks, perfect pass, tower and 320 HP V-8 at a minimum.
At $30k more than the price of a 2014 Bayliner, I would hope you're getting more. The NXT isn't MasterCraft's version of the Bayliner, it's their version of the A20 and Mondo. Different class.

I'm not rippin on ya though bud, I just have a hard time seeing why someone would jump on this, if a couple year old big boy boat could be had for less. If I'm spending $70k on a boat, it's not the one I'm buying. I filled out the 'build a boat' for the Mondo and picked every add on. MSRP $67k US bucks. Checking every feature in the NXT will put you at $80k and it's not made with the same goodies as the rest of the line. Yeah, that's MSRP, but so are the other list prices. It's chopper gun hull, tower, gauges, and scaled down interior are specific to saving money. So why not drop $55k on a used, loaded 230 or X30?

I have an XStar myself, and I like MasterCraft's product, I just don't subscribe to the belief that everything that rolls out their doors is heads above the rest, and the market should be so lucky to have it.


I went on a rant, it's not directed to you boardjnky.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-07-2014, 1:50 PM Reply   
So this is the boat thats supposed to make me want to upgrade from my X Star 205v. No freaking thanks! If the ballast is not sub floor and hard tanks they might as well just throw those tanks out too. Waste of space and time. I guess it does have BILLET!
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-07-2014, 4:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarek View Post
Curious to see if Wayzata Investment Partners will keep Mastercraft alive really. Rumor has it that things aren't moving and shaking so well. The NXT could be their last effort to make some $$$.
Haha, ya, adding a another complete assembly line, Building a new trailer manufacturing facility, selling out all 2014 build slots on the X30, and new prostar, certainly indicates they are really having problems.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-07-2014, 6:06 PM Reply   
I think the big picture that people are missing here is that MC is basically pulling a "bait and switch" just like a shady used car dealer.

Dealer: "Come buy a brand new MC, IT'S ONLY $50K ALL DAY!!!"
Buyer: Show up to the MC dealer expecting to get a relatively usable boat for $50K...."I want one of those $50k wakeboats please"
Dealer: "Well it's actually $58,000 for just the boat, do you want a radio and trailer with it? That's gonna be an extra $10,000."
Buyer: "Wait, what?"

The problem isn't so much that it's more expensive than a certain used boat or that it's more than comparable competitors new boats in the same class. It's that they are heavily pushing something that essentially doesn't exist. Their advertising claim of "$50k all day" will never happen on any deal they make on any of these boats, because they are gonna come already moderately optioned out if you buy from the dealer. They only way you're gonna see $50k on one is if you call the factory up and have one custom built with absolutely no options in it, and then go pick it up yourself from their assembly line. And anyone who is custom ordering a boat isn't stupid enough to do that.

Generally the accepted practice is to advertise the MSRP to customers, so you would expect the $50k to be the starting price, not the price you would negotiate down to for basically nothing more than a hull, motor, and steering wheel. I think if they would advertise it as a $60k MSRP wake boat since that's what it actually is, we wouldn't be having this huge s**t-storm of debate about it. It would just be another "price-point" boat that's just a bit higher than it's competition in an emerging entry level market demographic, and people wouldn't be so worked up about it the way they are.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       05-07-2014, 6:34 PM Reply   
WW has a way of cutting through the BS...sooner or later
...and when MC first hung one of these 50kalldaychoppergunboats from the rafters it was said that the steering wheel would be an option...the comment was right on the money.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       05-07-2014, 7:17 PM Reply   
What if we're all getting rolled on this one and they actually are 50k with a trailer and a few options? Then what?

One things certain, I bet people from MC know about this thread and are taking note, wouldn't be surprised if they would be rethinking some of their pricing schemes having a brutal thread about a boat that isn't even released yet.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-07-2014, 10:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
While we haven't seen the Supra SC wake in action yet you might as well have. It is basically the same hull(running surface) as the SA as far as I know. It obviously doesn't have the picklefork and has some extra chines towards the bow but of all intents and purposes the surface of the hull that is touching the water at wakeboard speeds is the same. Now the picklefork might allow for a little extra weight out over the front of the boat so the SC may need a few extra pounds in the bow.

Out of your list the Xstar is the weirdest one since it has been out for a full season plus some. The others are pretty new and the NXT is super new.
I have driven an SC but not ridden one yet. A buddy has an SA450 that I get to drive and ride. Fun wake for sure. I have heard from the local dealer that the SC is different, said its even more mellow (rampy) than the SC, which is very mellow compared to all other supra's/moombas they ever made. Its all hearsay though. But thats my point exactly. The SA has been out for over a year and we have seen a couple videos and a few pictures of the wake, but mainly all pics are OF the boat on a trailer or water… I might as well add 3 more to my list.

6. Moomba Mojo
7. Moomba Mondo
8. Supra SC

Every video you see is of a rider behind a G, Axis, Malibu, or older Xstar. All these new boats and no videos or pictures. Its frustrating because I love seeing riding and the wakes behind these machines. Reminds me, #9. Tige Z3. 2 video's I can remember. One with Easy E riding it, looked great, and one of Randall and company riding Dave's in Mexico. Thats it. I just don't get it.

The Xstar is not weird, to me, because yes it has been out for over a year and there is relatively nothing to see. There should be tons of footage of the pro riders riding this thing, showing off a huge clean wake…. but there isn't. Your best bet to see the wake on video or pictures is from the PWT… usually in windy conditions and chop, so not the best way to show off your flagship.

I just want to see the wakes and riding behind the boats that I may never get a chance to try.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       05-08-2014, 2:38 PM Reply   
Moomba doesn't have sponsored wakeboard riders as far as I know (Malibu, Axis, Nautique, MC, etc all do), so that's probably why you haven't seen many videos of people riding behind them, besides the promo videos from Skiers. I'm sure if you youtube search Moomba Mojo, you'll get some hits from regular people who videod it.

In regards to the SC, I have boarded behind it and it is actually a slightly steeper wake than the SA. At least that's how it felt to me, but it could've been how it was weighted since we had upgraded bags in the rear. Definitely one of the best wakes I've rode, and when fully weighted is definitely right up there with any wake out right now.

If you want to see a fully loaded SA wake, Harley posted a pic of him riding with Brad Teunissen the other day. It's definitely not an X-star wake, and Brad rides for Supra

Last edited by Rusty; 05-08-2014 at 2:48 PM.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-08-2014, 4:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
The Xstar is not weird, to me, because yes it has been out for over a year and there is relatively nothing to see. There should be tons of footage of the pro riders riding this thing, showing off a huge clean wake…. but there isn't. Your best bet to see the wake on video or pictures is from the PWT… usually in windy conditions and chop, so not the best way to show off your flagship.

I just want to see the wakes and riding behind the boats that I may never get a chance to try.
I mean..... Have you looked on Harley's Instagram or FB page??? Or any of MCs other riders?? Googled videos, or searched at all?? There is a ton of videos of them riding the new XStar...... And has been for a while.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-08-2014, 4:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
I mean..... Have you looked on Harley's Instagram or FB page??? Or any of MCs other riders?? Googled videos, or searched at all?? There is a ton of videos of them riding the new XStar...... And has been for a while.
Harleys instagram, yes, but there is nothing much to see as far as the wake goes. No Facebook and i don't follow any of the riders. I guess I haven't gone searching for pictures and videos of all the wakes I posted above, but that is exactly my point… this is wakeworld… the pics and vids should be everywhere on here, but they are not. Maybe if Dave changed WW's name to "Wake all day" then I would expect to never see any wakes… the same way that we can expect to never see a NXT at $50,000.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-08-2014, 4:48 PM Reply   
I don't think anyone, that owns an MC, wants to post anything on WW. It wouldn't matter if it was biggest, best shaped, wake in the world. It would get tore apart on WW.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       05-08-2014, 7:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
I don't think anyone, that owns an MC, wants to post anything on WW. It wouldn't matter if it was biggest, best shaped, wake in the world. It would get tore apart on WW.
Woah is me.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-09-2014, 8:37 AM Reply   
I don't wanna bet 75k+ but I wanna bet it's not 50k all day.

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Old    Riggin Rixstine (skers85)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-09-2014, 10:21 AM Reply   
Ahahahaha
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       05-09-2014, 10:37 AM Reply   


LMAO!
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       05-09-2014, 10:41 AM Reply   
ouch, that's a seriously black eye right there. They should have just coined it "60k all day" lol

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