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Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       04-03-2014, 8:34 AM Reply   
I had a chance to ride behind the ASR yesterday. I can't give a full review as of yet seeing as the wind was terrible. Overall the boat quality is very nice!!

I will say the wake had plenty of pop. It wasn't a huge wake per say but with stock ballast full and wake plate on 3 it had a nice lip and like I said it would boot you pretty easy. Since there obviously hasn't been anyone to dial one in I will say I think it needs more weight all around. I would like to add 750 to front and another 500-750 in the floor.


Oh and SMOOTH WATER!!!

Not going to post any wake pics as it would be unfair seeing as water was GARBAGE.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-03-2014, 8:39 AM Reply   
You should tell him to bring down his boat to round up Rance. I'd love to see that boat in person along with the Pavati.
Old    Justin (Jmarc)      Join Date: Jul 2013       04-03-2014, 9:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
The point is that the ASR is an obvious attempt to copy the G23, and has been priced accordingly. I think people are wondering whether, just because it looks dang close to a G23, is it built with the same level of quality, does it perform as well, does it produce the same caliber wake/wave. In other words, is Tige charging for a G23 look and size only, or do you get the performance benefits too. I could care less either way. I have nothing against Tige. Part of me hopes that it does do everything a G23 does, but for $10k less, so maybe it will help keep prices from continuing to friggin skyrocket.
Remember the days when a decked out wakeboard boat cost 50k!!!!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       04-03-2014, 9:42 AM Reply   
Not long ago(mid to late 90s) they could be had in the mid 30's. Some of those boats(SAN's, 205V, Xstars) still sell used for nearly what they cost brand new.
I bought a brand new open bow inboard in 1998 pretty loaded(CD, shower, heater, cover etc) with trailer for $23K!!! Crazy where the values have went in 16 years!!
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-03-2014, 10:13 AM Reply   
I bought an '07 vlx that was LOADED back in '06 for 57k OTD.
Old    Jesse (NotSure123)      Join Date: Nov 2012       04-03-2014, 10:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Based on these two pics the ASR is a a*much* more attractive boat to me..
Agreed...call me crazy but I like the exterior look/shape of the ASR better....
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       04-03-2014, 10:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I bought an '07 vlx that was LOADED back in '06 for 57k OTD.
that was a smoking deal on that boat although I am sure you get the bro price since you have a great relationship with people in the industry and you buy a new boat every year.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-03-2014, 12:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
I will say the wake had plenty of pop. It wasn't a huge wake per say but with stock ballast full and wake plate on 3 it had a nice lip and like I said it would boot you pretty easy. Since there obviously hasn't been anyone to dial one in I will say I think it needs more weight all around.
Seeing as every ride report I hear of the G is slack jawed amazement, it is safe to say tige has copied everything but the wake performance. FAIL. Boats this ugly, expensive and bloated have to have good wake performance or they are pointless.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-03-2014, 12:21 PM Reply   
Idunno, I've seen some pics of a local G23 wake. While it looks big, my jaw wasn't dropping.

edit: quick pic I grabbed off of facebook of a G23. don't know the specs on the ballast, but I know it's more than stock. Probably Stock + 1500 or so


Last edited by boardjnky4; 04-03-2014 at 12:25 PM.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       04-03-2014, 12:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Idunno, I've seen some pics of a local G23 wake. While it looks big, my jaw wasn't dropping.

edit: quick pic I grabbed off of facebook of a G23. don't know the specs on the ballast, but I know it's more than stock. Probably Stock + 1500 or so

Looks like a shot from the tower... I just want to know why Tige hasn't put it on display yet if it's so good.

Other wakes we haven't seen good shots of - the SA, SC and took forever to see the X...
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       04-03-2014, 12:43 PM Reply   
I'm not big on pictures of wakes. However I am a fan of riding good wakes!!!!
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       04-03-2014, 12:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Seeing as every ride report I hear of the G is slack jawed amazement, it is safe to say tige has copied everything but the wake performance. FAIL. Boats this ugly, expensive and bloated have to have good wake performance or they are pointless.

It needs some tweaking for sure. I do think it will be a very good wake once weighted correctly.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-03-2014, 12:53 PM Reply   
98.99% of every vid out right now is behind a G. Nuff said.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-03-2014, 12:55 PM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtarIIaskvU

I know its glimpses but should be good enough. I guess yall want tige to measure and triangulate the damn boat is barely out in production.
Old     (atthelake)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-03-2014, 12:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSure123 View Post
Agreed...call me crazy but I like the exterior look/shape of the ASR better....
You're crazy. And have poor eyesight.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-03-2014, 4:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Idunno, I've seen some pics of a local G23 wake. While it looks big, my jaw wasn't dropping.

edit: quick pic I grabbed off of facebook of a G23. don't know the specs on the ballast, but I know it's more than stock. Probably Stock + 1500 or so
That sure looks like a stock G23 wake to me..... Last summer was a little while ago, but it looks stock from what I can remember.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       04-03-2014, 4:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post

Other wakes we haven't seen good shots of - the SA, SC and took forever to see the X...

By "we" you mean "you" right? Pretty sure Supra hasn't been hiding their wakes.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-03-2014, 6:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
That sure looks like a stock G23 wake to me..... Last summer was a little while ago, but it looks stock from what I can remember.
even if it is stock, my point stands, nothing gets to be impressive until it's heavily weighted down. so the statement above that the ASR wake was nothing to write home about, stock, is not surprising. because no boat out there has a crazy big stock wake.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-03-2014, 7:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
even if it is stock, my point stands, nothing gets to be impressive until it's heavily weighted down. so the statement above that the ASR wake was nothing to write home about, stock, is not surprising. because no boat out there has a crazy big stock wake.

Have to disagree stock g23 wake with 5 adults was pretty darn impressive to me! Bigger than my stock plus 2k San 210 and my buddies star with pro ballast. Bigger than stock MXZ and x25 by a long shot. There isn't another boat on the market that puts 2800lbs as stock ballast yet has room for another 2k+ that can be all hidden.
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       04-03-2014, 7:09 PM Reply   
We did only have 2 people in boat
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       04-03-2014, 7:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Have to disagree stock g23 wake with 5 adults was pretty darn impressive to me! Bigger than my stock plus 2k San 210 and my buddies star with pro ballast. Bigger than stock MXZ and x25 by a long shot. There isn't another boat on the market that puts 2800lbs as stock ballast yet has room for another 2k+ that can be all hidden.
Up until the ASR there wasn't another 23' boat that was even close to the size of the G23. It is crazy to think that when the newer style MBs came out they seemed be crazy tall, like a big tank. Now we have the next generation with the G23, ASR and to a lesser extent the SC series. Speaking of MB their 23 and 24 foot options do close to what you are talking about. The 23 TWB has 2300 pounds under the floor and I am sure can fit close to 2000 pounds under the floor.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       04-03-2014, 8:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
By "we" you mean "you" right? Pretty sure Supra hasn't been hiding their wakes.
I haven't been keeping up on my wake edits lately but I saw a solid edit of a dude riding an SA probably 5 months ago on Alliance, which seemed to be about 5 months after the boat was released. There just aren't that many, which is confusing to me.

Can you show me numerous edits with the SA/SC wake?

Quote:
tampawake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtarIIaskvU

I know its glimpses but should be good enough. I guess yall want tige to measure and triangulate the damn boat is barely out in production.
Why are you so defensive. The boat dropped 5 months ago. Why not just take a regular video of someone riding behind it? It's not good enough, its smoke and mirrors and you can't tell what the wake looks like apples to apples pictures/video with the same athletes riding it.

Last edited by wakebordr11; 04-03-2014 at 8:31 PM.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       04-03-2014, 8:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
even if it is stock, my point stands, nothing gets to be impressive until it's heavily weighted down. so the statement above that the ASR wake was nothing to write home about, stock, is not surprising. because no boat out there has a crazy big stock wake.
You're on crack.
Old    Justin (Jmarc)      Join Date: Jul 2013       04-03-2014, 9:13 PM Reply   
We'll mine should be here mid May so I will post some good pics of the wake. I'm sure someone will put some up before that though
Old    Detox (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       04-03-2014, 10:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by atthelake View Post
You're crazy. And have poor eyesight.
I'm not fond of the way tiges look usually but I will say I like the lines of the ASR better than the g on the outside. Interior g all the way. If I was buying one the g hands down.
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-04-2014, 5:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
even if it is stock, my point stands, nothing gets to be impressive until it's heavily weighted down. so the statement above that the ASR wake was nothing to write home about, stock, is not surprising. because no boat out there has a crazy big stock wake.
here's a stock G23.
Attached Images
 
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       04-04-2014, 5:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironj32 View Post
here's a stock G23.
I think that's just a good picture. The picture that I posted above is also a G23. Not sure if it's stock or not, but it certainly doesn't look nearly as big as your picture.

I'm not saying the wake isn't good, I am just questioning the fact that it's "jaw dropping" when stock.

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this argument, as obviously different pictures from different angles and different opinions will never come to a reasonable conclusion.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       04-04-2014, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
I haven't been keeping up on my wake edits lately but I saw a solid edit of a dude riding an SA probably 5 months ago on Alliance, which seemed to be about 5 months after the boat was released. There just aren't that many, which is confusing to me.

Can you show me numerous edits with the SA/SC wake?

http://vimeo.com/70311204

http://vimeo.com/70797238

http://vimeo.com/71973474

http://vimeo.com/73596895

http://vimeo.com/68964798

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAo8M1Duc1g

Considering the SA came out in 2013(which is actually summer 2012), then an edit 5 months ago would be a year and a half after it came out.

Last edited by Rusty; 04-04-2014 at 7:00 AM.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       04-04-2014, 7:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
I think that's just a good picture. The picture that I posted above is also a G23. Not sure if it's stock or not, but it certainly doesn't look nearly as big as your picture.

I'm not saying the wake isn't good, I am just questioning the fact that it's "jaw dropping" when stock.

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this argument, as obviously different pictures from different angles and different opinions will never come to a reasonable conclusion.
So you have, or haven't ridden it?
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       04-04-2014, 7:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
http://vimeo.com/70311204

http://vimeo.com/70797238

http://vimeo.com/71973474

http://vimeo.com/73596895

http://vimeo.com/68964798

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAo8M1Duc1g

Considering the SA came out in 2013(which is actually summer 2012), then an edit 5 months ago would be a year and a half after it came out.
I stand corrected on the number and level of edits - suppose using Alliance as the benchmark was crap but anyway. I had seen Teunnisons edits, one or two of those, and thought DAMN that wake is huge and it kicks
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       04-04-2014, 8:11 AM Reply   
I went to Worlds last year and the wake from the SA there looked freaking enormous. It was getting on plane pretty quick too even with the amount of weight they were running. They would do a powerturn at the end of the course that was incredibly tight for a boat loaded like that, it was pretty impressive.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       04-04-2014, 8:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
I went to Worlds last year and the wake from the SA there looked freaking enormous. It was getting on plane pretty quick too even with the amount of weight they were running. They would do a powerturn at the end of the course that was incredibly tight for a boat loaded like that, it was pretty impressive.

I went to worlds also and really didn't think the wake was all that nor did I feel the athletes were going all that big. No 10's or doubles were being thrown that's for sure. But on the flip side the vantage point when watching a wake competition from shore isn't all that good either.

I was told by a rider there that the boat was running 5k of ballast. Which I believe considering how low the nose was sitting!
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-04-2014, 9:41 AM Reply   
Dude I dont care it can be the worst wake ever and useless to everyone that is not a pro. Just found that video. Did not realize I had something to prove. I cant afford any of these boats nor would my riding deem them to be worth it. My old school Xstar is just fine. So yeah Tige sucks the wake sucks eveything about them sucks they should just fold up shop. Who cares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
I haven't been keeping up on my wake edits lately but I saw a solid edit of a dude riding an SA probably 5 months ago on Alliance, which seemed to be about 5 months after the boat was released. There just aren't that many, which is confusing to me.

Can you show me numerous edits with the SA/SC wake?



Why are you so defensive. The boat dropped 5 months ago. Why not just take a regular video of someone riding behind it? It's not good enough, its smoke and mirrors and you can't tell what the wake looks like apples to apples pictures/video with the same athletes riding it.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-04-2014, 9:45 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWaUsbx54i0
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-04-2014, 10:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
So you have, or haven't ridden it?
I am guessing he hasn't........
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-04-2014, 10:34 AM Reply   
I find absolutely amazing how many people are dogging on the ASR who:

1. Probably couldn't afford it...ever
2. Have never set foot in it
3. Haven't seen the wake yet
4. Only know Tige from the boats they built 10+ years ago and/or are only going by what they've heard a friend of a friend/their non-Tige dealer say about them

I've personally crawled inside the orange and black ASR from earlier in the thread, and a G23 I almost bought last year, and the fit and finish is superb in both. Is the ASR different than a G? Sure. Is it a lesser quality? No. And Tige has for sure come a long way since the old shaky towers and "lower quality" (not my words, just what everyone on WW claims) boats of the early 2000's. They are no longer a local small time boat builder and have proven how far they've come now with the ASR. Sure, they've taken some ideas from the G, even I'll admit that. But I guarantee that many of the other companies will be following the trend as well into the super wake boat class. Nautique proved that there was a market for it and could be successful, and Tige was the next to jump on board. Don't be surprised if you see a Super Wakesetter in the future, or possibly even an "affordable" super wake boat from Axis. As the market interest has shifted from low wake DDs for competitive skiing into bigger wakes for boarding a surfing, the boats have had to change. I think what we're seeing with the G and ASR is just the next evolution of the wake market, and companies building to answer the demand. Once the someone dials in the ASRs wake and shows that it can compete with the G (which I think is entirely possible), I think you'll see a lot more people switching over to it.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       04-04-2014, 10:43 AM Reply   
^^ I think this thread more so started because of the hype and then lack there of regarding pictures, videos, etc. Not hating on the boat, but the truth is, there just isn't much info out there on it... period. There's a ton of Tige promoted videos and a few videos from it's first contest that was shaky footage. I agree people shouldn't hate on a wake they haven't seen, but that's the problem, with all the hype we should be seeing more wake and boat pics period.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-04-2014, 10:58 AM Reply   
Correct, I started this thread not to bash tige at all. I don't believe in bashing boats. I'd take whatever I could get. Which was a 89 fish and ski at one time. I just wanted to see if anyone had seen the interior/wake in person.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       04-04-2014, 11:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
Not a video from inside the boat showing the wake from a passenger perspective. Nobody has that video yet, and that's what I'm saying.

I didn't say you had anything to prove, but you are defending hype(and Tige) when Tige has had the boat on the market for 5+ months, they are being sold in boat shows and they won't show how great their wake is.

I like Tige, I really do. My family has owned a Tige for 14 years, great boat. I just can't stand all of this marketing and hype and there aren't any pictures or video to back it up.

BTW, congrats on your boat. It is one of the best out there still. I'd like to own one someday
Old    David Curtis (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-04-2014, 11:11 AM Reply   
I was able to crawl around a new ASR. Nice boat but for the money iI would rather buy a G which is built by a more reptuable boat company and going to be a way better finsh. The ASR is a carbon copy of a G with a different front nose and differnt tower and for those that dispute that your in denial.

One thing none of you can say is that MC never stole a boat design from anyone. The Xstar is a proven wake with superior bulid quality and made by one of the best companies out there which is in the same class with CC and Malibu.

FastR3DN3K - I could affford any boat on the market and however I know that I wouldnt waste my money on a boat like the ASR when a G might be a few K more but is way better built .
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-04-2014, 11:31 AM Reply   
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do find it amusing that Tige is being accused (rightly or wrongly) of copying the ground breaking design of Nautique, who just happens to be currently engaged in a lawsuit after being accused of copying Malibu's surfgate.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       04-04-2014, 11:37 AM Reply   
The Malibu guys have arrived ^^
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-04-2014, 11:46 AM Reply   
oh jesus. "surfgate"
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-04-2014, 12:49 PM Reply   
Malibu was just pissed because NSS gets the job done without a floppy set of dumbo ears on the back of the boat


I kid, I kid
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-04-2014, 12:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Not long ago(mid to late 90s) they could be had in the mid 30's. Some of those boats(SAN's, 205V, Xstars) still sell used for nearly what they cost brand new.
I bought a brand new open bow inboard in 1998 pretty loaded(CD, shower, heater, cover etc) with trailer for $23K!!! Crazy where the values have went in 16 years!!
Inflation. 35k in 1995 is 54k today.

Your 23k I/O in 1998 is 33k today. That's not counting all the extra stuff boats didn't have then that they have now.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       04-04-2014, 1:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
Malibu was just pissed because NSS gets the job done without a floppy set of dumbo ears on the back of the boat


I kid, I kid

I mean.... You're not wrong
Old    Tony (retoxtony)      Join Date: Apr 2012       04-04-2014, 4:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
I was able to crawl around a new ASR. Nice boat but for the money iI would rather buy a G which is built by a more reptuable boat company and going to be a way better finsh. The ASR is a carbon copy of a G with a different front nose and differnt tower and for those that dispute that your in denial.

One thing none of you can say is that MC never stole a boat design from anyone. The Xstar is a proven wake with superior bulid quality and made by one of the best companies out there which is in the same class with CC and Malibu.

FastR3DN3K - I could affford any boat on the market and however I know that I wouldnt waste my money on a boat like the ASR when a G might be a few K more but is way better built .
Your kidding about this right? Didnt MC get the idea for the Xstar picklefork from Cobalt? Every manufacturer takes ideas from each other.

Last edited by retoxtony; 04-04-2014 at 4:08 PM. Reason: d
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-04-2014, 7:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakedaveup View Post
The Malibu guys have arrived ^^
I'm not a Malibu owner, or frankly, even a huge Malibu fan. I'm just pointing out that it's not only Tige that has been accused of "copying" a design.
Old    David Curtis (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-04-2014, 7:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by retoxtony View Post
Your kidding about this right? Didnt MC get the idea for the Xstar picklefork from Cobalt? Every manufacturer takes ideas from each other.
Serious as a heart attack. You can't deny that MC and CC are better built boats than the others. What proof do you have about MC taking their pickle fork from Cobalt. Your just throwing things out there. MC started the movement of the pickle fork bow or square bow in ski boats. The Xstar was the first of its kind.
Old    Lee Griffith (LeeG23)      Join Date: Feb 2013       04-04-2014, 7:33 PM Reply   
I have a way to settle this. I like on lake Tyler. That's very close to the orange/black asr. Come over and we will run my G23 stock and take pix and video vs the asr and whatever else boat wants to come out. Boat ramp next to my house. Will b lotta fun. I love boats and honestly want to see them head to head
Lee
Old    Justin (Jmarc)      Join Date: Jul 2013       04-04-2014, 7:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
Serious as a heart attack. You can't deny that MC and CC are better built boats than the others. What proof do you have about MC taking their pickle fork from Cobalt. Your just throwing things out there. MC started the movement of the pickle fork bow or square bow in ski boats. The Xstar was the first of its kind.
You are incorrect. Cobalt reintroduced the pickle fork in ski boats. The engineer from colbalt went to MC. MC was the 2nd to have it. The point is every company plays off others. It's was drives the industry. The auto industry does the same thing. It's just the next step in the evolution of wakeboard boats. I could care less if they ripped all the logos of the G and put Tige stickers on it. I like the boat so I bought one! Some of you hate it so buy something else. Everyone should still appreciate all these company's pushing the industry forward.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-04-2014, 11:11 PM Reply   
Justin, congratulations on your new ASR, that is a sick boat... Don't let anyone here take away your new boat high... Have a great summer with it!
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-05-2014, 1:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmarc View Post
You are incorrect. Cobalt reintroduced the pickle fork in ski boats. The engineer from colbalt went to MC. MC was the 2nd to have it. The point is every company plays off others. It's was drives the industry. The auto industry does the same thing. It's just the next step in the evolution of wakeboard boats. I could care less if they ripped all the logos of the G and put Tige stickers on it. I like the boat so I bought one! Some of you hate it so buy something else. Everyone should still appreciate all these company's pushing the industry forward.

Just curious....

What boat was the boat that Cobalt reintroduced the pickle fork with? One engineer was responsible for the entire design? And it was him and only him that brought the ability to design and produce a pickle fork to Mastercraft? Does that engineer have a name?

I mean seriously, this is just getting laughable...

Also, in my opinion copying a hull does not move the industry forward.
Old    Tony (retoxtony)      Join Date: Apr 2012       04-05-2014, 4:59 AM Reply   
The boat is the Cobalt 240SD. It was designed by a guy named Peter Granada who designed the Xstar shortly after. This has been discussed on the forums at great length in the past. The point i was making is that every one of these companies copies each other, even MC. Its just how the industry moves forward.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-05-2014, 6:23 AM Reply   
And the saga continues. The debate will continue. Meanwhile Nautique and Tige will continue to sell boats. All this debate means "NOTHING" to the buyers of both of these boats. Continue on with your debate gentleman.
Old    Tim (Tims)      Join Date: Feb 2014       04-05-2014, 6:38 AM Reply   
Question for the folks that think the ASR is "Garbage". What criteria need to be met to qualify as garbage? Wake, vinyl quality, innovation/features, gel coat quality, ride, hardware quality, fit and finish? Since the engines, running gear, and to a less extent the electronics are all the same between the brands I am curious to know where the ASR falls so short?

To me it looks like just a another option over the "G" type boats so you pick the one that looks the best to you and has the layout you want. Am I missing something??

Really, where does this brand loyalty and bashing come from??
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-05-2014, 7:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tims View Post
Question for the folks that think the ASR is "Garbage". What criteria need to be met to qualify as garbage? Wake, vinyl quality, innovation/features, gel coat quality, ride, hardware quality, fit and finish? Since the engines, running gear, and to a less extent the electronics are all the same between the brands I am curious to know where the ASR falls so short?

To me it looks like just a another option over the "G" type boats so you pick the one that looks the best to you and has the layout you want. Am I missing something??

Really, where does this brand loyalty and bashing come from??
You know how when that new kid moves into your neighborhood and everyone makes fun of him because he's new? But then it turns out that he may actually be kinda cool and good at something that you and your friends like to do, but people still make fun of him because he hasn't been around as long and no one wants to admit they may have been wrong. It's kinda like that with Tige, at least that's how it appears to me. Sure they may not be the oldest brand out there, and sure they may have had some boats in the past that weren't that great. But what brand hasn't had a bad boat of some sort? The fact remains that the ASR is a damn nice boat.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-05-2014, 7:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeG23 View Post
I have a way to settle this. I like on lake Tyler. That's very close to the orange/black asr. Come over and we will run my G23 stock and take pix and video vs the asr and whatever else boat wants to come out. Boat ramp next to my house. Will b lotta fun. I love boats and honestly want to see them head to head
Lee
This is the best comment in this entire thread. Only one way to settle the argument. I'll come over and hang with you guys and check this out. Let me know details.
Old    Justin (Jmarc)      Join Date: Jul 2013       04-05-2014, 7:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
Justin, congratulations on your new ASR, that is a sick boat... Don't let anyone here take away your new boat high... Have a great summer with it!

Travis Thanks buddy! If you are ever in AZ come take a pull.



I will end with this on this debate.

Who was the first to have a ballast system.... Perfect pass .... Touch screen .... Single mounted tower..... Board and surf racks..... Wake plate..... It doesn't matter who was first!!!!! If you don't keep up with the industry you get left behind. It happens in ever single industry out there!
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-05-2014, 8:08 AM Reply   
^ I actually hope the whole industry doesn't move in this direction. It is nice to have a choice. I prefer a sleeker looking, better handling boat.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       04-05-2014, 9:08 AM Reply   
I think a big part of the debate is because the Tige is so expensive. And at that price why would you choose it over a very proven G23? I doubt resale will be as good, those who have looked at both boats very closely almost always feel the fit and finish isn't equal, and at the end of the day it's a Tige. Having looked at both boats closely, I wouldn't consider it over the G unless it was $20k less.

The other Tige owner I met last year (owned a new Z3) spent a good 1/2 hour defending his buying decision and explaining to me why he buys tige and why it's the best. To me that's sad to have to go through all that just to try and make people like you boat. Oh ya, buddy couldn't even do a wake jump.

Last edited by 501s; 04-05-2014 at 9:13 AM.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-05-2014, 9:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by retoxtony View Post
The boat is the Cobalt 240SD. It was designed by a guy named Peter Granada who designed the Xstar shortly after. This has been discussed on the forums at great length in the past. The point i was making is that every one of these companies copies each other, even MC. Its just how the industry moves forward.
I appreciate the info, it provided a good start to obtaining some clarification. Now, onto what I found:

Peter is a designer. He owns his own "design firm" and wasn't directly employed by either Cobalt or Mastercraft. For anyone familiar with offshore power boats, it is similar to what John Adams does for Formula or John Cosker does with countless others. Supposedly He had done some interior design for MC prior to the Xstar, but was also held on retainer by Cobalt.

From everything I was able to find, he is just a designer. He did not engineer the entire boat, Cobalt and Mastercraft individually did that with numerous people in their own engineering teams. It is just like a designer that pens the lines of a new car, they did not engineer it, but they are directly responsible for the look of the product. I appreciate the name and the boat you referred to, it provided a good starting point for finding more information.

The similarities between that Cobalt and the Xstar though are undeniable.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       04-05-2014, 12:21 PM Reply   
@L W. When I asked the dealer about pricing on the ASR, the price he quoted me was more than 25K better than what the local CC dealer had as their best price on the G23 at the boat show. I'm not in the market for either, but just stating that in my area there is indeed a decent price difference. We were at the dealership today and very much to my surprise the one ASR the dealer order(was to be the owners demo) sold as soon as it arrived and now they have another on order. The boat was still there and I got to crawl around it some. Night and day difference quality over the one at the boat show. No comparison.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-05-2014, 12:52 PM Reply   
^ I thought the ASR was north of 100k?? Looks a bit better if it is less than 90.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       04-05-2014, 1:03 PM Reply   
$25k is definitley enough to make people strongly consider one over the G. That's a big difference. At the boat show here, I think the ASR was around $115. Our prices are quite a bit higher than the states too.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-05-2014, 4:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
^ I thought the ASR was north of 100k?? Looks a bit better if it is less than 90.
The ASR is over $100k MSRP. Last I heard the most basic model starts around $109k, and fully loaded is right around $125-130k. The G23 starts at $124k, and fully maxed is pushing $160k from my understanding. The G I looked at was moderately equipped (450hp motor, NSS, basic stereo, etc.) and was right at $140,000 sticker, so if a decently equipped ASR runs $120ish, I think they can steal some business from Nautique. I know if it had been on the market when I was buying I probably would have given it a real serious look.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-05-2014, 6:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastR3DN3K View Post
The ASR is over $100k MSRP. Last I heard the most basic model starts around $109k, and fully loaded is right around $125-130k. The G23 starts at $124k, and fully maxed is pushing $160k from my understanding. The G I looked at was moderately equipped (450hp motor, NSS, basic stereo, etc.) and was right at $140,000 sticker, so if a decently equipped ASR runs $120ish, I think they can steal some business from Nautique. I know if it had been on the market when I was buying I probably would have given it a real serious look.
Probably depend greatly on the dealer. Nautique runs a considerably higher markup percentage. (Just like MC does) A larger discount would apply on that G. At least from what I have always seen with markup percentages.....

I would be curious if that 120k MSRP ASR could be had for 90k or less, because a 30k+ discount on a 120k+ CC, or MC, is fairly common.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-06-2014, 7:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
Probably depend greatly on the dealer. Nautique runs a considerably higher markup percentage. (Just like MC does) A larger discount would apply on that G. At least from what I have always seen with markup percentages.....

I would be curious if that 120k MSRP ASR could be had for 90k or less, because a 30k+ discount on a 120k+ CC, or MC, is fairly common.
I don't know if you could get below $90k unless you're a yearly buyer like Chatt, but I imagine that under $100k on an ASR in the mid-level $115-120k MSRP range could be had fairly easily, which is still pretty good. I know the MSRP on my loaded RZ4 was around $104k, and I ended up around $86k out the door on it, so there's plenty of room to negotiate on Tiges. But I seriously doubt that you'd be be able to get a mid-level $140k G23 for any less than $120k, which means that you'd be looking at a $25-30k difference that definitely helps sway some buyers over to the ASR
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-06-2014, 9:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastR3DN3K View Post
I don't know if you could get below $90k unless you're a yearly buyer like Chatt, but I imagine that under $100k on an ASR in the mid-level $115-120k MSRP range could be had fairly easily, which is still pretty good. I know the MSRP on my loaded RZ4 was around $104k, and I ended up around $86k out the door on it, so there's plenty of room to negotiate on Tiges. But I seriously doubt that you'd be be able to get a mid-level $140k G23 for any less than $120k, which means that you'd be looking at a $25-30k difference that definitely helps sway some buyers over to the ASR
Mid level G is $140k? My sticker was less than that and my boat is hardly stripped.

All I'll say about pricing is - at the boat show, the G and ASR were less than 15k difference in price. The difference in boat, however, was not insignificant. The warranty on the Nautique (5 years vs 3 years) alone may be worth a big chunk of that difference.

The ASR was a damn nice boat, but with some odd design/function choices. Is it a G-killer? Not even close, IMO. Will it sell? Not at $110k.. but if they could sell it for $90k, they'd sell a bunch.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-06-2014, 3:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastR3DN3K View Post
But I seriously doubt that you'd be be able to get a mid-level $140k G23 for any less than $120k, which means that you'd be looking at a $25-30k difference that definitely helps sway some buyers over to the ASR
My buddies G was 143k MSRP, and out the door at $109k and change (Before taxes). Probably a better than average deal because he buys new every three years........ Still, the available difference between MSRP, and selling price, on a Nautique, is almost 10% more than the gap that a lot of other boat companies run. "The big three" have always been known for this. Malibu not as much as CC and MC, but still considerably more markup than Tige, Supra, MB, Moomba, etc.

Obviously, this can vary in some cases. But if all things are equal, you will get about 15k more discount on a G, than you would an ASR. (According to a dealer that carries both. Although, I believe they dropped Tige now)
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       04-06-2014, 6:00 PM Reply   
109K for a G is by far the best deal I have heard of…hands down. That is a smoking' deal. Thats about 24% off MSRP which is probably pretty darn close to dealer cost. Plenty of guys over on TO talking about getting similar type deals on Tige's so the mark ups are probably a lot closer than you think.

From researching over the years I have figured manufacturers cost is about 50% of MSRP. Dealer cost is about 75% of MSRP. You can confirm these numbers with Malibu's now public Financial statements. Anytime you can get a deal in that 20-25% off MSRP your doing good, IMO!

Last edited by boardman74; 04-06-2014 at 6:03 PM.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-06-2014, 6:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
109K for a G is by far the best deal I have heard of…hands down. That is a smoking' deal. Plenty of guys over on TO talking about getting similar type deals on Tige's so the mark ups are probably a lot closer than you think

Ya, no doubt it was a good deal. Dealer only made a few k on it, I'm sure. As for the markup difference, you could very well be correct. I am only going off of what a dealer, that sells both brands, told me.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-06-2014, 6:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
My buddies G was 143k MSRP, and out the door at $109k and change (Before taxes). Probably a better than average deal because he buys new every three years........ Still, the available difference between MSRP, and selling price, on a Nautique, is almost 10% more than the gap that a lot of other boat companies run. "The big three" have always been known for this. Malibu not as much as CC and MC, but still considerably more markup than Tige, Supra, MB, Moomba, etc.

Obviously, this can vary in some cases. But if all things are equal, you will get about 15k more discount on a G, than you would an ASR. (According to a dealer that carries both. Although, I believe they dropped Tige now)
$109k is an insane deal on a G. I sold cars for a living for a while, so I'm no slouch when it comes to negotiations. The G I looked at was $138k and the best I could talk them down to was $125k + TTL.

If my math serves me correct, that means your buddy got a G23 for about $100k before taxes? I find it hard to believe that he was able to negotiate 30% off the sticker, but then stranger things have happened. If Tige is inflating their prices by that same ratio, then it would stand to reason that an established repeat buyer could possibly get the same discount on a mid level $120k ASR and buy it for under $85k before taxes. If Tige can legitimately sell them anywhere close to that price, then I could easily see them kicking the bejeezus out of Nautique in that segment of the market.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       04-06-2014, 7:04 PM Reply   
^ I did state that it was 109k before taxes. Not after. It is about 23% off, which is not unheard of for a Nautique.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-06-2014, 7:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
^ I did state that it was 109k before taxes. Not after. It is about 23% off, which is not unheard of for a Nautique.
Sorry, missed that part since you said "out the door" originally. That means with taxes included in "wheelin' dealin" terms, so it was misleading. So that means that your buddy walked out of there around $118k after taxes. If Tige can discount the ASR at the same rate, then the mid level $120k model would be around $91k before taxes, and around $98k out the door. I don't know about you, but if I were new to the world of tow boats with plenty of money to spend, and I looked at these 2 boats side by side, the $20k OTD difference could easily be a huge factor in favor of the ASR.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       04-07-2014, 5:41 AM Reply   
Looks like my Mercedes Benz



Mazda managed to make its $20,000 van look a bit like a $53,000 luxury vehicle, So it must be as good Right?
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       04-07-2014, 7:22 AM Reply   
Hmm. If those 2 wagons were different colors, I don't think they would look alike at all.
Old    Travis (Khyber)      Join Date: Mar 2013       04-07-2014, 7:36 AM Reply   
The G vs ASR look a like debate can go on forever and feels like it has on this thread already. Let's just see some pics of the ASR wake and get more rider feedback!
Old    Justin (Jmarc)      Join Date: Jul 2013       04-26-2014, 10:58 PM Reply   
Anyone have any pics of the surf wake yet?
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       04-27-2014, 7:44 AM Reply   
I loved Lake Cherokee as a kid. I used to spend summers there going to work with my grandfather. He was a carpenter and built many of the houses on/around that lake.

AS for the ASR and G debate, i don't care for the styling of either. I have no doubt that both will perform well.

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