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Old    Carl McFallen (frozenorth)      Join Date: Feb 2013       03-14-2014, 6:27 PM Reply   
haha my post got deleted from the team talk site... go figure

I own a 2013 x-25 and while i'm happy with the surf wake, I saw that MC has a generation 2 surf tab that I guess acts like the Nautique and BU system.

I was thinking that it would be a worthwhile thing to see if we could get someone to fabricate some 2014 surf tabs. All it would really take is for someone to get a hold of a boat with the new 2014 tabs. Now I was told on the MC website that MC has come out with the new tabs for the 2013 boats and it's a steal at 6 thousand bucks.

2 grand i could maybe see. 6k? really mastercraft? Do you sell lube with that? The surf tabs are really just a couple of stainless steel pieces with some channels welded on the bottom. I think the ends are fold down a bit also? Materials might be what $300 bucks tops? I don't need the software update really. I can just use the existing software and control the tabs by the screen.

Just wondering if anyone else has been thinking about this?
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-14-2014, 6:50 PM Reply   
Yes it comes with lube, helps the actuators slide in and out
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-14-2014, 7:39 PM Reply   
Just out of curiousity, have you even taken the time to ask your dealer how much you could buy just the tabs for?? The upgrade "MSRP" is $5800.00 for a 2013, but that is for the surf tabs, center tab, actuators, wiring, software, ballast bags, plumbing, and several hours for the dealer install. And most dealers will be able to do it for considerably less than 5,800...... Especially if you already have pro-package and have an attitude plate and ballast bags for the lockers, and the dealer doesn't charge you the MSRP price...

If you want to only swap tabs, just buy the tabs. They won't be anywhere near 6k.

Last edited by Fixable; 03-14-2014 at 7:43 PM.
Old    Carl McFallen (frozenorth)      Join Date: Feb 2013       03-14-2014, 7:52 PM Reply   
the reply made it sound like it was all or nothing? if it's just the tabs i'd be ok with that.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-14-2014, 7:55 PM Reply   
A lot of boats don't need the wiring, center tab, ballast bags, or nearly as much labor. My understanding from my dealer is that knocks the price down a lot. Not to mention that they left plenty of labor leeway in that price. Chances are, most dealers wouldn't charge full MSRP, even if you do need the whole kit-n-kaboodle
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       03-14-2014, 8:08 PM Reply   
It works a bit differently than the Nautique and Malibu systems as they push the back of the hull sideways to create the wake. MC mostly adds list like the system that Sanger has used for a few years.
You could just put on a couple Bennett trim tabs and controller. It's not that hard, or get a dealer to do it. That lets you create the list and change sides quickly without having to move weight. I'm not sure it's as effective a technique, but ask on the Surf forum. The MC one is tuned some to individual hulls. I don't know how much difference that makes.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-14-2014, 8:48 PM Reply   
Did you just say it "comes with lube". Is that for getting the $6k out of your bank account, or you know, greasing your butt before they screw you? I think it is only $3k plus tax on a Nautique, which is crazy. http://www.planetnautique.com/vb3/sh...on-a-210/page6
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-14-2014, 9:04 PM Reply   
Art, I believe the new gen 2 tabs end up acting like a combination of normal/flat tab that adds lift but also like the NSS or swell by creating delayed convergence. Since the new tabs have the last couple inches or so bent at a 45-90 degree angle it pushes the wake out farther causing the delayed convergence. At least that is what it looks like it does to me.

Carl, does your boat have the Gen1 surf tabs on it now? If so I would almost think you could leave everything as is but put on new tab/plates. Either that or take the actual tabs off, send to a fabricator and have them make a 45 degree bend or so in the last 2 inches or so of the tab.
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       03-14-2014, 9:11 PM Reply   
Wow.. $6K?... Ouch..

Does anyone have any pics of the 014 tabs from the boat show?

My understanding is they are not symmetrical..
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-14-2014, 9:19 PM Reply   
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       03-14-2014, 9:23 PM Reply   
The dealer told me the port tab is different from the starboard one... shape and bend... I google 2014 mastercraft gen2 tab and the images look symmetrical..
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-14-2014, 9:25 PM Reply   
Here is another tab. It only has one section bent but it on the same side the picture above would go on. I have no idea.


Last edited by polarbill; 03-14-2014 at 9:28 PM.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-14-2014, 9:29 PM Reply   
text accompanying the pic above.

Third, MasterCraft has specifically designed the Gen 2 wake shaping device for EACH model. Knowing that each hull displaces water differently, MasterCraft took every boat out on the water and custom engineered a wake shaping device for each hull to ensure each boat performed better than anything else on the market. Our engineers even took prop torque and wash into consideration, creating an asymmetrical device on the starboard side to guarantee the prop did not mess up the wake on the drivers’ side.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-14-2014, 10:25 PM Reply   
Gen 2 tabs are different for each boat it's offered on, "hull specific". If you currently have surf tabs you cannot simply switch them out. The plates have different screw hole configurations and there are more screws on the Gen 2. The actuator placement is lower on the transom than surf tabs actuator. Part of the $5800 is the fee for glasswork filling and repair on boats with old tabs. There is more here than there seems if you are retrofitting and removing old tabs.

Another thought, most agree a listed wake is always going to produce a better wave than any tab, gate etc.. although the "systems" are handy.
Do you think due to the size and shape if the Gen 2 that if you installed it and still wanted to run a listed wake from time to time and not engage the Gen 2 would its size and odd shape negatively affect the wave? Think odd shaped swim platform or weird down turn exhaust tips? Just a thought.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-15-2014, 6:03 AM Reply   
^ In the parked position the tabs are up at a 20ish degree angle to the bottom of the hull. High enough to be out of the way.
Old     (ToddWake)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-15-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
If you can't afford the 6K then you can buy 1K worth of fat sacks and accomplish the same list. Or buy a Nautique, or be the first to have a metal shop build you some tabs and install them.

Don't make your problem our problem.
Old    Bcd D (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       03-15-2014, 8:57 PM Reply   
Did you even ask your dealer what it would cost to get the new tabs?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Old    Carl McFallen (frozenorth)      Join Date: Feb 2013       03-17-2014, 10:11 AM Reply   
toddwake "don't make your problem our problem"

I think where we went wrong here is if you have nothing to add then don't reply. That's a pretty simple rule. I was asking if anyone has thought about getting these tabs fabricated and saving a bunch of dough. I've had lots of parts for cars fabricated and in most cases the quality is better and the price is always much more resonable. There has been some very good answers and reason's that it might be diffcult which have been helpful for sure as why the dealers are charging what they are. It still feels extreme and what I do with my money is really kind of my business. The comment of if you can't afford it.... Once again, pretty sure I can afford it as I just dropped a 100k on my boat last year, do I choose to throw away 6grand on a couple of peices of meteal though is really the question. I do have extra fat sacs and they're plumbed in as well, you obviously are so rich you can afford the 6k touch up and i"m very jealous of your apparent wealth.

By the way, this is a picture my neighbor took of my house last week. I'm just getting the cars ready for spring. We had a ton of snow this year, lots of rocks on the road so i'm taking the cars in to get tuned up and some 3m put on the hood. The Vette is not picture very well as it's still covered up in the single garage part...

Thanks for your concern Todd in the future i'll try and not make anything I post your problem...
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Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 10:28 AM Reply   
Hahaha don't know what to think about this non-boat asset bravado...
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-17-2014, 10:51 AM Reply   
Agree don't know what to think about that pic...Fast cars are for babies. What is your best wakeboard trick? Just kidding, don't hate me. I feel for you but these expensive boats are overpriced money pits.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-17-2014, 11:04 AM Reply   
That post above would have had way more impact if you didn't feel the need to show off your wealth in the form of exotic cars. Ya, we all would love to have or even drive one but using pictures of them to "stick it" to jet ranger seems a little, I don't know, weak.

Everyone else understands not wanting to spend $6k on some tabs if there are other options, me included.

Either way, sweet cars. I see you are in Alberta, If you need help parking them back in the garage, I can assist you

Last edited by 501s; 03-17-2014 at 11:08 AM.
Old    Supreme Device (rullery)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-17-2014, 11:12 AM Reply   
lol at resorting to post pics of your lamborgottis in defense of an internet troll's comments.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 12:13 PM Reply   
Some of you may be too young to appreciate the Cajun Man reference...
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Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 12:24 PM Reply   
.
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Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 12:29 PM Reply   
Ok ok I got to get back to work. Hahahahaha
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Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-17-2014, 2:09 PM Reply   
I like the bumper on that sports car. It is so ugly you may as well not even have the car.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       03-17-2014, 3:37 PM Reply   
You need a Lambo or two up here just so you can plough the snow out of the way. You start with the Countach or Enzo to break through the bottom layer and then just go up in size until the Bentley goes through the surface and lets you drive the Escalade without having to put on a plough.

Here's a pic from a few years ago at my work getting them tuned up so they are ready for winter. I think everybody in Alberta has a few. (although my nephew the framer only has a Lotus)
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Last edited by rallyart; 03-17-2014 at 3:41 PM.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-17-2014, 5:13 PM Reply   
Old    Aric Brabec (aricsx15)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-17-2014, 5:43 PM Reply   
You sure those are yours? The cars are worth more than your house.
Old    Captain Obvious (Captain_obvious)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-17-2014, 9:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenorth View Post
haha my post got deleted from the team talk site... go figure

I own a 2013 x-25 and while i'm happy with the surf wake, I saw that MC has a generation 2 surf tab that I guess acts like the Nautique and BU system.

I was thinking that it would be a worthwhile thing to see if we could get someone to fabricate some 2014 surf tabs. All it would really take is for someone to get a hold of a boat with the new 2014 tabs. Now I was told on the MC website that MC has come out with the new tabs for the 2013 boats and it's a steal at 6 thousand bucks.

2 grand i could maybe see. 6k? really mastercraft? Do you sell lube with that? The surf tabs are really just a couple of stainless steel pieces with some channels welded on the bottom. I think the ends are fold down a bit also? Materials might be what $300 bucks tops? I don't need the software update really. I can just use the existing software and control the tabs by the screen.

Just wondering if anyone else has been thinking about this?
Now that there is a pissing contest going on maybe we can get back to the thread.... if you are wanting to duplicate the size n shape of the gen 2 tabs and save $ don't forget to purchase some new platform brackets as well. The new brackets are raised up to have the platform just below the lifting eyes on the transom, to help keep the platform from "digging" into the wave creating wash.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-17-2014, 9:54 PM Reply   
Ive not heard anything about new brackets for the swim deck, I don't think that is accurate?
Old    Captain Obvious (Captain_obvious)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-17-2014, 11:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhart73 View Post
Ive not heard anything about new brackets for the swim deck, I don't think that is accurate?
I'm sorry you haven't "heard" about it or that you "think" it isn't accurate, but you don't need to question anything I say about MC.
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Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-18-2014, 7:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhart73 View Post
Ive not heard anything about new brackets for the swim deck, I don't think that is accurate?
It is accurate. The platform is between 1", and 2.5" higher, depending on model.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       03-18-2014, 11:36 AM Reply   
I think everyone is missing one of the main things people fail to realize when they talk about the cost of these, or any new accessory for boats, cars, etc.

You are not paying for the materials.
You are not paying for the labor.
There is no hidden secret fees where the money is going off to.
What you are paying for is the R&D of the product. The time it took them, the materials, the man power, etc.
After a product is made and proven, it is easy to copy it and spend a fraction of the time, money, and energy doing it to make an identical copy.
What you are paying for is all the steps along the way it took to make the final product.

Take for example an air intake for your car. A performance air intake from AEM will cost $200-300 new. You can buy an identical air intake from a knock off brand that is 1/10th the price. Same materials, same design, everything identical. The reason being, they only had to buy one of the originals to copy and not have to design it up from scratch and do many variations.

The same applies here. You are paying for all the labor it took to get up to this point, not the labor to install it, not the materials.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-18-2014, 11:46 AM Reply   
Generally I would agree with you. But come on, in this case in particular, they bent the sides up on a trim tab.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-18-2014, 12:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottb7 View Post
Generally I would agree with you. But come on, in this case in particular, they bent the sides up on a trim tab.
Exactly. Just a couple tabs with bent sides......

+ New platform brackets
+ Gel Repair and refitting
+ Hoses, 2 more through hulls, check valves, fittings, etc.
+ Ballast Bags
+ Software revision
+ Redesigned, faster, longer throw, actuators
+ Center Tab plate, actuator, and wiring
+ A new platform, if your old one happens to be teak.
+ Dealer installation labor, which could be upwards of 15-20 hrs, which probably accounts for almost half of the upgrade cost.

$5800 is the worst case "MSRP" for this upfit. Most installs will be considerably less considering they might not need half of these things..... (Platform, Center plate, ballast bags)

Hell, it cost over $5000 to add NSS to the early '13 Nautiques, and that requires much less total work..... Sure, $5800.00 is a lot of coin, but its not like they are way off base.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-18-2014, 8:27 PM Reply   
That boat is made of wood, you lose.

How does that prove that the swim deck is mounted higher on boats ordered with Gen 2? It doesn't.
Not to mention the work order detail for retrofits mentions nothing about new swim deck brackets or repositioning.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_obvious View Post
I'm sorry you haven't "heard" about it or that you "think" it isn't accurate, but you don't need to question anything I say about MC.

Last edited by jdhart73; 03-18-2014 at 8:34 PM.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-18-2014, 8:47 PM Reply   
Ok its a wood wrap, my argument still stands though. In looking at X30's with and without the Gen 2 tabs the swim deck heights look the same to me in side by side comparison. Is there somewhere this info was put out there about swim deck height?
Old    Captain Obvious (Captain_obvious)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-18-2014, 10:26 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=jdhart73;1869057]Ok its a wood wrap, my argument still stands though. In looking at X30's with and without the Gen 2 tabs the swim deck heights look the same to me in side by side comparison. Is there somewhere this info was put out there about swim deck height

You have no argument because you have no idea what you are talking about. Just because you got to look at gen 2 x30 at a boat show for 5 minutes doesn't mean your an expert.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-18-2014, 10:33 PM Reply   
I would say the same holds true for you ^^^^ No basis for your argument, just a bunch of nonsense.
Old    Captain Obvious (Captain_obvious)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-19-2014, 8:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhart73 View Post
I would say the same holds true for you ^^^^ No basis for your argument, just a bunch of nonsense.
A bunch of nonsense huh.... I make one comment about MCs gen 2 package includes new platform brackets and for some reason you disagree. Than I post a pic right from the dealer meeting in Orlando of a wrapped x10 that clearly has a black hull and you think its a wooden boat. Fixable confirms the platforms are raised and you still think I'm wrong.
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Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-19-2014, 9:53 PM Reply   
I can see from that picture that MC has gone with a different swim deck bracket this year but I cannot see how it is any higher than previous years.
Not to mention that the retrofit details for 13's that went out to dealers made not mention of new brackets but did detail everything else.

Again, I see a different color bracket but still see no proof that its actually higher. If you are right you're right but you have not shown me anything
definitive yet.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-20-2014, 8:42 AM Reply   
All I know, is that, when I went to check out my new boat, a dealer was retrofitting a left over '13 X30 to gen 2. They were swapping the brackets while I was there. The old brackets were essentially flat on top. The new ones swoop upwards like the bracket in the photo above. I didn't put a measuring tape on it, but I would guess it lifts the platform about 1.5".

The leftover '13 was also getting a new platform, because they changed the shape of the teak platforms. (Angles in from the midpoint to the back). Dealer said the fiberglass platforms stay the same.
Old    Ryan Bedford (annq42)      Join Date: Mar 2006       03-20-2014, 8:58 AM Reply   
I know that you could always request your platform to be a bit higher on MC. So your platform wouldnt be so deep underwater with extra weight. I had the retrofit on a used X star I got, that was an ex pro's before me. I wonder if they are just using those instead.

I would have to say, I can see why these would be expensive (not sure 6k is the right price), as excluding the R&D, the pistons that move the plates are very powerful, and expensive, the metal plates themselves are very sturdy solid pieces of metal, the software on your onboard computer would have to be changed, which I imagine is a complete re-write from any other surfing programming they had, then you have to mount the things, which I imagine is no easy task, as anyone would know who has tried to pull up those back floor boards will admit to.

I got a chance to see it in action the other week at a Wake & Flake event (Wakeboard in the morning and snowboard in the evening), and it was very cool and very easy to use. No extra weight in a X10, and the wake on both sides was beautiful, and the transition between the 2 was surf-able for the lady behind the boat. I love to surf, and I would be willing to pay maybe $2k to $3k for it, but $6k is a bit much.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-20-2014, 8:20 PM Reply   
Talked to a dealer today that mentioned a "spacer" for the swim deck but wasn't certain. Who knows, maybe that JackWagon obvious is right in some capacity??

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