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Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-21-2014, 8:49 PM Reply   
Kind of complicated situation to explain, but we/they are looking at boats of around 22K. Good wake, good wave.
I'm leaning heavily to one of the famous 3; 210, X-Star and Wakesetter. I know everything about 210's, but need to be freshed up on MC's and Malibu's.
The X-Star was 205V but later became the X-1 when, and then the X-6 (right?) when?
Wakesetter had a bunch of hulls over the years, right? What are the good years, what years to avoid? Then there's the V-ride. Years?

How do the surf waves of these 3 compare?

And what other options would you suggest?

If anyone has some good options (preferably around Orlando/Port Canaveral but other locations are possible) let me know!
Old     (SecretSquirrel)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-21-2014, 9:39 PM Reply   
If surfing will be the primary activity behind the boat you're barking up the wrong tree. Look at Centurion, Tige, Sanger. Good luck.
Old    Rayprisz (priszkid)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-21-2014, 9:50 PM Reply   
I'd agree with SS. I had a 92 Sanger and it did well for a DD surfing! with a fat sofa. I looked at a Centurion Avalanche C4 and passed because it didn't have the hydraulic plate and wasn't impressed with the amount of interior space and storage. I ended up by going with a Tige 22VE and dig it. I did add ballast to help the surf wave. Most importantly the wife loves it and it fit our budget though it's higher than where yours currently is set. I'd recommend continuing to ask questions and as many will say- water test before you buy!
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-21-2014, 11:57 PM Reply   
205V -> Xstar. -> X series. -> X2 -> X1. -> gone burger. Quite a marketing journey for that hull.

IMO Sanger V215 is a better option.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       01-22-2014, 4:55 AM Reply   
For 22k you could find a Nautique super sport from 95-00 or a SAN 210 from 99 to 02. If you find an SS you will probably have money left over for tower, ballast and pp. either way you will be more than thrilled with your purchase. Surf wake is great on starboard side (goofy). It is still good on port but needs a bit more weight because of prop rotation.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-22-2014, 7:19 AM Reply   
Surfing is not primary. Let's say equally important.
I really like Sangers but they're too low. I now have a Nautique 2001. Something with higher freeboard is desired cause our lake can get super choppy.

Yeah what MC did with the name of that boat always puzzles me. Still am totally clueless about all their X'es. When did X-Star become X-2?

Yeah a 2001 or 2002 210 would be a good option I think with GT-40, and they're built like tanks.

What's the story with Wakesetters/V-Drives, anyone?!
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-22-2014, 7:38 AM Reply   
In that price range I would go with the 210 all day long. I don't surf behind mine at all yet so I can't speak to the surf wave but the freeboard on the Super Air Nautique is unbeatable in the year range that you're looking at for that price. Everyone else was playing catch up for quite a while in the area of hull depth. The SAN was the first boat to focus on wakeboarding while all the others were still trying to make a ski boat that you could sort of wakeboard behind. Things obviously changed in later years but you won't get any of those boats for 22K.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       01-22-2014, 7:48 AM Reply   
210 is not a surf boat it is a wakeboard boat. Good luck with your purchase. If it were me I would look for a 1996 Nautique Super Sport V drive or newer and then build the ballast system. But its not a surf boat until you make it one.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-22-2014, 8:22 AM Reply   
I owned a 2003 Avalanche c4. My buddy loved wakeboarding behind it. It was also a great surf boat. A Tige 22v would also do a great job doing both, unless you are a pro level rider both are great wakeboarding boats. If you are a pro level then I would go mastercraft or malibu. The old mastercraft hulls didn't surf well, but some of the old LSV hulls do a good job with added weight. Good luck on your hunt.
Old     (SecretSquirrel)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-22-2014, 8:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by priszkid View Post
I'd agree with SS. I had a 92 Sanger and it did well for a DD surfing! with a fat sofa. I looked at a Centurion Avalanche C4 and passed because it didn't have the hydraulic plate and wasn't impressed with the amount of interior space and storage. I ended up by going with a Tige 22VE and dig it. I did add ballast to help the surf wave. Most importantly the wife loves it and it fit our budget though it's higher than where yours currently is set. I'd recommend continuing to ask questions and as many will say- water test before you buy!
I can say that I don't have any personal experience what so ever with Sanger. I only reference them because of the price point and my own findings via forums, videos etc. I do have Tige and Centurion experience as well as a bunch of others.

If someone asked me the best surf boat for UNDER 30 I would say look hard at the 22V with a few things to keep in mind as far as typical fail points. The next boat I would say on a budget scale between 30k - 40k would be the Avalanche. Great boat, designed for wakeboarding but surfs very well. You probably won't want to slalom behind it it much as the wake tends to be hard.

Thirdly and in my opinion the best SURF boat when we're talking VALUE, with all around water sport capabilities is the Tige 22ve. EASY to weight for surfing and with the convex hull and taps plate can go from surf to a weekend warrior slalom skier wake. If you can stay pre 2010 that's where I would look. No Touch screen to fart around with. You've got the ever reliable rocker switches. 2009 is really the sweet spot. You get the Alpha Z and rocker switches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffymahoney View Post
I owned a 2003 Avalanche c4. My buddy loved wakeboarding behind it. It was also a great surf boat. A Tige 22v would also do a great job doing both, unless you are a pro level rider both are great wakeboarding boats. If you are a pro level then I would go mastercraft or malibu. The old mastercraft hulls didn't surf well, but some of the old LSV hulls do a good job with added weight. Good luck on your hunt.
22V would be a great boat to look at as I mentioned above. Although you'd be hard pressed to find one in good condition at your budget level. Same goes for the Avalanche. Stay away from Mastercraft. Very difficult to get a good surf wave out of. LSV hulls are surfable and can throw an acceptable get your feet wet surf wake. hwoever you might not feel comfortable with the amount of list required.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-22-2014, 9:06 AM Reply   
Thanks all!
Yeah if it were my money I'd get a Super Sport or early Super Air, period. It's not though.

Tige 22v has a different hull than the 2001 22i? A buddy has that one, and the wake is *****.
Old     (SecretSquirrel)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-22-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
22i is a direct drive meant for skiing. 22V is a V-drive designed originally for wakeboarding, so yes the hulls are different.
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-22-2014, 9:29 AM Reply   
Here is a 1999 SS asking $18k

http://southbend.shoppok.com/a,29,29...-Plymouth-.htm
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-22-2014, 9:29 AM Reply   
Yes the hulls are different. The 22v was one of the first super deep v's. 21v or 23v is similar but has spray pockets, it's also a proven hull for surfing and wakeboarding. 22v is a very tall boat and handles a ton of weight. They can sometimes be found in that price range. The 23v or 21v are in that price range pretty often. Use adhunter and start looking you can almost always find deals far away from where you live and just ship the boat. Fly out or pay and have a marine study done on it. I have bought all 3 of my boats like this. Saved thousands.
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-22-2014, 9:47 AM Reply   
That super sport looks nice. Nice colors
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-22-2014, 10:30 AM Reply   
2004 SS asking $22k

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...-LTD-102150389
Old     (SecretSquirrel)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-22-2014, 10:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexlex01 View Post
I'd look hard at this.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       01-22-2014, 10:53 AM Reply   
That boat will be gone in a few days at 22.9k. All it needs is pp and ballast so for maybe 25k invested you have a 2004 legendary wake
Old    Chris (maxx_wake)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-22-2014, 11:03 AM Reply   
I got my 03 Tige 22V for right around your target price about a year and a half ago. Didnt have a ballast system or perfect pass so I am in it for a little more now that I have added those items but still I think it is the best bang for the buck. As others have mentioned it can have a great surf wake and a very good wakeboard wake. It also is one of if not the deepest freeboard boats of that era which was important for me since I have small children. I was coming from a Supra SunSport DD and I was amazed at how much better the Tige handled chop. Generally it can cut through waves instead of smacking on top of them and I hardly ever get sprayed unless it is really windy out. The other v-drives listed here are probably all better in chop than my SunSport was but I do think the Tige has an advantage since a lot of the older Vdrive hulls tended to flatten out in the rear. When I bought mine I looked at a bunch of different boats and the only other one I seriously considered to meet my needs in my budget was an 03 Avy. In the end I liked the interior layout of the Tige a bit better plus the one I ended up buying was in much better shape than any of the Avy's I looked at in that price range.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-22-2014, 7:24 PM Reply   
How the hell can someone put such a tower on a Super Sport?! :\ Sweet boat otherwise! That 2004 is indeed super interesting, I had already seen it online. Wonder why the new engine, but at least Jasper is a great source for a replacement.

Gonna look into 22V's, sounds interesting. What's the wake comparable too?

2004 Wakesetter VLX, anyone? Good hull or not? Was the diamond the bad one? Years?

Thanks again!
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-22-2014, 10:07 PM Reply   
I had a 2000 wakesetter vlx back in the day which I believe is the same hull as the 04. I think just the 2001 was a different hull that wasn't so good? Anyway, it put out a nice wake with 1500-1800 pounds and grows with more. It was super mellow and much more consistent compared to the san 210. A lot less straight up pop but a nice transition. I am big nautique fan and currently own a 2000 SAN 210 but what I loved about the vlx was it was much less sensitive to side to side weight placement and wake wash. I also didn't run the wedge so I don't know if that makes a big difference.

As for the surf wave… sorry I can't help ya there.
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-23-2014, 6:56 AM Reply   
1999 SS asking $15kish

http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Co...1#.UuEsjbJOKSM
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-23-2014, 7:25 AM Reply   
Sander this is my buddies Wakesetter its in Tampa which is about 1 hour to the south west of Orlando. Fresh water only and well taken care of. He use to be a show skier so grew up in boats and knows how to take care of them. Pretty sure the price is negotiable. He can demo you on our lake really easy. The plus to the Setter is space this thing is huge compared to my 205v Xstar and CC 210s. Good luck in your search this is a clean boat.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...ter-Vlx-605079

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripsw View Post
Kind of complicated situation to explain, but we/they are looking at boats of around 22K. Good wake, good wave.
I'm leaning heavily to one of the famous 3; 210, X-Star and Wakesetter. I know everything about 210's, but need to be freshed up on MC's and Malibu's.
The X-Star was 205V but later became the X-1 when, and then the X-6 (right?) when?
Wakesetter had a bunch of hulls over the years, right? What are the good years, what years to avoid? Then there's the V-ride. Years?

How do the surf waves of these 3 compare?

And what other options would you suggest?

If anyone has some good options (preferably around Orlando/Port Canaveral but other locations are possible) let me know!
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-23-2014, 7:38 AM Reply   
I'd pick up that SS if I had the funds laying around, good price.

Wakesetter looks great too, thanks for posting. Gonna look into the different hulls today.
Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       01-23-2014, 9:00 AM Reply   
I've had most of these boats, the 210 always felt tiny inside to me, mine was a 2000, the inside deck was high which made the seats feel small and the tower low (I'm 6'5") and I ride regular so I wasn't a huge fan of the surf wake.

I had a 2002 Tige 20v and a 2005 22v this past year and I like a lot of stuff about Tige's they turn on a dime, great surf wake and I like the wake shape, that said, almost every Tige I've had was super slow out of the hill, and if Taps doesn't work right you can't plane and the boat will porpoise at speed. (I also had a 99 2100v and a 1996 2200v) really didn't notice much difference in the wake shape only cornering difference)

I'm on my third old school x star and they're my favorites. Nice size, great wake for wake and surf. Great power and they hold their value. Not too hard to find in that price range.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-26-2014, 8:49 PM Reply   
Malibu Wakesetter VLX has my/our interest, any more comments or info? Wake? Wave?
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-26-2014, 10:59 PM Reply   
MIKEnNC got a new MXZ22.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-27-2014, 12:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripsw View Post
2004 Wakesetter VLX, anyone? Good hull or not? Was the diamond the bad one? Years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beleza View Post
I had a 2000 wakesetter vlx back in the day which I believe is the same hull as the 04. I think just the 2001 was a different hull that wasn't so good?
To clarify all of this, speaking of the SV23 hull (the 21' hull) AND in a V-drive. It was sold from 1996 through 2008. It was sold as:
- '96 - '01 Sunsetter VLX
- '99 - '04 Wakesetter VLX
- '02 - '04 Sunscape 21LSV
- '05 - '08 V-Ride

There are two versions, the SV23 Wake and SV23 Diamond. Only the Sunscape 21LSV and the 2001 Sunsetter VLX had the diamond hull - the rest were the wake hull.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the diamond hull, is very sought after and IMO the superior hull, as it makes pretty much the same wakeboard and surf wake but also has a far better ski wake. The crappy part is most of them were sold without towers (it was an option), so either you have to add one yourself or hope the previous owner did the right thing.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-27-2014, 8:14 PM Reply   
Awesome, great info. Thanks!
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       01-28-2014, 4:00 AM Reply   
Completely disagree with the diamond hull statement above. Most people who board and surf and do not ski stay away from this hull. It doesn't make the same wake as the wake hull so unless you ski alot I would stay away too. I was able to pick up a 99 sunsetter vlx for 14.5k. Has a brand new interior. Needs perfect pass and ballast plumbed in but these 2 adders cost 1k a piece if you do it yourself
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-28-2014, 4:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhartt3 View Post
Completely disagree with the diamond hull statement above. Most people who board and surf and do not ski stay away from this hull. It doesn't make the same wake as the wake hull so unless you ski alot I would stay away too. I was able to pick up a 99 sunsetter vlx for 14.5k. Has a brand new interior. Needs perfect pass and ballast plumbed in but these 2 adders cost 1k a piece if you do it yourself
Look at the hulls. They are nearly the same. The chines on the diamond hull are only difference, and they are only effective at higher speeds, as they lift the rear of the boat.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-28-2014, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
Look at the hulls. They are nearly the same. The chines on the diamond hull are only difference, and they are only effective at higher speeds, as they lift the rear of the boat.
That's not my experience, the diamond hull needs a lot more weight and the shape is even more mellow than the wake hull. I would never take the diamond hull as an option.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-30-2014, 9:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
To clarify all of this, speaking of the SV23 hull (the 21' hull) AND in a V-drive. It was sold from 1996 through 2008. It was sold as:
- '96 - '01 Sunsetter VLX
- '99 - '04 Wakesetter VLX
- '02 - '04 Sunscape 21LSV
- '05 - '08 V-Ride

There are two versions, the SV23 Wake and SV23 Diamond. Only the Sunscape 21LSV and the 2001 Sunsetter VLX had the diamond hull - the rest were the wake hull.
That's some great info, thanks.

Anyone have the same info for the 23LSV-hull (Sunsetters and whatnot)? It changed in 2004? When was diamond (not) available?

Edit: bigger CC-boat would be 230 but that didn't come out till '07, making it pretty expensive. What was MC's larger alternative?

Gracias!

Last edited by tripsw; 01-30-2014 at 9:50 AM. Reason: Add
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-01-2014, 9:32 AM Reply   
Let me rephrase:
if you're looking for a 23 ft boat, and you'd increase the budget, what would be the first good boats that come into reach?
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-02-2014, 6:54 PM Reply   
http://usa.motoseller.com/c/sys.php?a=2&b=374612
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-02-2014, 8:58 PM Reply   
A good used malibu LSV would be a nice fit

http://usa.motoseller.com/c/sys.php?a=2&b=374612

http://dallas.listlux.com/a,29,23739...--Bedford-.htm

http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Ma...1#.Uu8eUXl0W_o

or tige
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Ti...1#.Uu8i8nl0W_o

Last edited by rexlex01; 02-02-2014 at 9:03 PM.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       02-03-2014, 6:28 AM Reply   

5k for that LSV? Thats gotta be scam
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-03-2014, 6:23 PM Reply   
1999 SS $16K Low hours

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CORRECT-CRAF...wer_Motorboats
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       02-03-2014, 6:36 PM Reply   
That is a sweet 99. Make sure it has a GT40. The listing said it had a chevy engine.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-04-2014, 6:56 AM Reply   
Nice SS for sure! The other guys think it has a too small interior though, and the surf wave not good enough. But I'd be all over it.
LSV for 5K? I'll have 3 please.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-05-2014, 7:36 PM Reply   
2000 LSV. How's the wake? Ballast needed? Looks like diamond hull, is that right?
Attached Images
 
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-05-2014, 8:06 PM Reply   
yep, diamond hull. I am pretty sure all of the 2000-2003 23lsv's were diamond hulls actually. The rub rail is smashed off that rear corner. It could be a completely isolated ding but it certainly raises red flags.

I believe one of the CIE guys used to have one of those boats and can probably share an opinion on the hull for boarding. I would "guess" the hull can throw a good wake but will need lots of weight to get bigger and the wedge or a ton of rear weight to get a lip. I would guess it is more of a rampy wake.

It is another complete guess but I would expect the surf wave to be mediocre at best. that said it would be a nice, roomy boat.
Old    TODD YOST (yodd_tost)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-06-2014, 7:59 PM Reply   
I got a 01 Tige 23v for that price, loaded up....perfect pass, FAE, bimini, stereo, ballast(2k+),upgraded prop, ect, ect. was hoping to get more like 24k tho
Old    Spence (bigs77)      Join Date: Feb 2014       02-07-2014, 5:38 AM Reply   
I would be more concerned about the ~1,500 hours on the boat.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-08-2014, 11:35 AM Reply   
Or the cracked block it has :\ That my friend found out after flying into Austin from Canada...

Still looking!
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-18-2014, 6:42 AM Reply   
Here is a 1999 , ad says Super Sport , but boat says air which could be a DD unless the word super was missing in front of it.

http://www.reachoo.com/ads/195981239

Last edited by rexlex01; 02-18-2014 at 6:44 AM.
Old    Sander (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       02-18-2014, 9:31 AM Reply   
Thanks Rex Lex. Also found it on CL: http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/4338312413.html. Nice boat, pretty gross interior though. And wonder if they painted or wrapped the hull.
Old    Connor (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       02-18-2014, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripsw View Post
Thanks Rex Lex. Also found it on CL: http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/4338312413.html. Nice boat, pretty gross interior though. And wonder if they painted or wrapped the hull.
That's an awesome boat, hull, motor, etc... Depending on how many hours it has I would def take a look at it. As far as the mold/dirty interior goes- noting a little LAs Totally Awesome, a brush, and hours of work can't fix... I wouldn't write it off of the list just because of that...
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       02-18-2014, 8:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
MIKEnNC got a new MXZ22.
This thread is another instant classic. I'd look at the Aztec Crow, personally. Price range you're in. It can't be beat.

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