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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-07-2013, 1:18 PM Reply   
I hate to admit it but Wakeworld has slowed down. And it's not just the normal winter time slowness it over all seems to have fallen off? Not sure if it's other social media outlets but I wanted to run by some Things I was thinking to see if they might result in some positive changes.

One of the major things I like to see is Boat Projects, some of the biggest contributors to this subject are Audio Install's. And the people doing the most audio installs are Shops. Shops posting here have all but become extinct on wakeworld. It has to be a win win situation. Example. Wakeworld needs active members new and old and new Ideas. People come here for Content and discussion. You take away the content and the membership and ideas start to fall off.

Example a shop post pictures of a Install or some work they are doing and it's "Advertising" and the post is Deleted!

Why would a shop take the time to contribute if they can't benifit from its efforts. Example some shops have turned to twitter & facebook. They can post pics and content with out censorship, this content (photos) and discussion ect may or may not result in a sale. I see it as YES they are promoting them selfs but they are in return posting new content that can benifit us.

Example: a shop posts some cool pics of projects it gives others Ideas and creates topics and exchange of Ideas.

Now I know it can't be a free for all or this place would turn into spam city with people promoting what ever! But what Ideas can we come up with to help draw in new content and users with out "disrupting the force"
Old    Keith M. (kmayotte)      Join Date: Aug 2010       11-07-2013, 1:38 PM Reply   
Not to thread highjack- I think you have some great ideas but I used to go on wakeboarder.com years ago and stopped visting because it's content has slowed to a pace. Is that site still active at all? I agree this site has slowed down a bit.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-07-2013, 1:58 PM Reply   
I think the site has slowed down for a few major reasons.....
1 - Constant bickering and people talking about who makes the best boat or tower spearkers.
2 - Some valuable peoples posts cause their contributions are seen as advertisements, but don't pay - I get this cause David needs to make some cash too, but some of those posts were pretty valuable. Maybe should be taken with more of a grain of salt....
3 - Winter blues are setting in....

I remember the days when people got a new boat or a new stereo install they were all full of congrats and nice job. Even if we did not like the colors or did not like the brand, we all shared the same pride. Those days are gone. Now it takes one person to pipe up something and then it gets all threads off on the wrong track and a battle...
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-07-2013, 3:00 PM Reply   
More examples of conflicts of intrest;
Users here want to see & discuss new products and or projects.
Unless it's done by a Private individual or a payed sponcer it's deleted.
Manufactures or Shops can't show case work or products unless they pay. If your a shop and you take time to Take pictures and timeline a project & then post it here & field the questions that shop should be rewarded. So it's a win win situation. Wakeworld got content and user participation and the shop would look to get some advertising and or business in return.

I see shops posting their work or projects as having value. It brings me here and keeps me coming back it can also leed to the purchace of product. Both by sponcer and non sponcerd products. It shares Ideas and information. Again win win situation.

Everyonce in a while some guy registers that day and then starts promoting his or her gadget or service, I see these people quickly get called out and flushed down the.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-07-2013, 3:04 PM Reply   
There are also a handful of people who need to be abolished once and for all.
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       11-07-2013, 3:16 PM Reply   
When I was a ME dealer, I had projects that I posted deleted. And I completely understand that as there is no free advertising for commercial entities regardless of what the value of their contribution might be. How can you argue when you knew what the rules are beforehand.
Of course we have all witnessed countless creative and contrived reasons for commercial advertising via sock puppets, minions and friends. You can't can't prove it so you can't police it.
Given that it is a frequent occurance, and it sneaks passed the rules, as a non-commercial entity, why not post these installation projects for your friends in the business. Once questions arise, dealers have always been free to contribute opinions and explanations once someone else posts up the project.
I don't ever recall one dealer making a negative comment about another dealer's installation. ME dealers tend to show respect for one another and have gotten along famously over the five or more years I have watched this forum. The friction has been brand related wars and not ME dealer to ME dealer.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-07-2013, 3:28 PM Reply   
To address Miggs statement about certain people need to get abolished. Is it possible that users posts could be rated with some sort of a points system and for example if people were too negative the Community as a whole could give them negative feedback and with enough negative points or feedback the system could delete their IP address and not allow them to post. I just noticed on planet Nautique that they have a "reputation number" associated with the posters name. I know that no system is perfect it's just an idea
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       11-07-2013, 4:16 PM Reply   
Grant, I was actually thinking about making a post like this last night. People who constantly "stir the pot" should be able to be voted out. Wakeboarding/Surfing used to be an amazing community. Before I had a boat when I was younger, countless times I stood on the dock with my board and $30. 9 times out of 10 if get a set or two. Nowadays I'd think differently about doing so as the wake scene has become snobby. Not saying any of you guys are though. There are a small percentage of posters on here who, as soon as they post I hardly ever go back to that thread because its immediately full of BS and bickering.

I think the site has slowed down because of winter like most have said and social media. I was kinda upset when Craig's post got deleted. He never once posted a price when asked. He just posted pics of new boats. There are a few other threads that got deleted because of "un payed advertising". IMO they weren't at all. If this thread can stay on the right track and keep up the constructive criticism and not have all the BS post in it I think Dave and wakeworld as a whole can greatly benefit from it.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-07-2013, 4:42 PM Reply   
Chase; I agree I'm not trying to bash W/W or Dave I like this place and have met many great people and am trying to come up with ideas to make it better but like many of you I see a decline and it's not just winter. I have been here for quite some time and it's more than just winter slow down. People switching over to social media, could it be that people are put off by random people and their coment's were on places like facebook your only dealing with your "friends" and your not subject to censorship???
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       11-07-2013, 5:23 PM Reply   
I too have noticed the slow down. especially in the find a third thread. I usually post a few pics on there to stir up people to come out and ride (which has worked in the past) but now I feel like it's just "my blog" thread with a bunch of my photos.
though I do occasionally go onto planet nautique, I have really shifted over to THEMALIBUCREW.COM even though it leans toward Malibu's "being the best" the traffic on those forums is like WakeWorld in its prime. the reply ratio is easily 20 to 1. sometimes I can't keep up and I end up deleting several email notification posts.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-07-2013, 5:27 PM Reply   
gotta say I "like" the like button on posts that themalibucrew.com uses.
Old    Brian Williams (delbert)      Join Date: Oct 2003       11-07-2013, 5:31 PM Reply   
Or is the slow down on wakeworld just a reflection of an overall decreasing interest in water sports?
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-07-2013, 6:01 PM Reply   
^^^ yes perhaps the interest in logging in and seeing something amazing back then ... like the storm that Aaron Rathy was when he was new ... has worn off. the opportunity to invent or radicalize tricks for the sport is nearing depletion. now with every new video of skilled riders, the wow-factor is in the polish on old tricks. and there are fewer and fewer of those videos being posted, with Norbi gone, Nick Davies in health-state uncertain, and the newness of Daniel Grant wearing off.

when I started lurking in 2006, kids were on the wakeskating thread arguing which brand of wakeskate is best. ?!?!? I bet there is no much of that anymore, nor the demographic that carried it on.

The sniping that is rife has usually always been destructive. Bocephus/Sam Ingram/Tucker was an exception. He is missed.

Joe Umali ??? he added little that I saw except he had a Napolean complex.

Still I find this site interesting. The Boat, Trailer and Vehicle owners thread remains the core attraction. I read it every 3 or 4 days a week to learn expert advice / insight on things to waste exhorbitant money on a boat.

Maybe Dave Williams should set up a policy where, if a dealership posts something he feels is advertising, he might do the following. Instead of unwarned deletion, he allows them to contact him first (or his stated policies for the site says he will contact them after so long of a grace period), and allow them to pay a nominal fee to keep the post up.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-07-2013, 6:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
To address Miggs statement about certain people need to get abolished. Is it possible that users posts could be rated with some sort of a points system and for example if people were too negative the Community as a whole could give them negative feedback and with enough negative points or feedback the system could delete their IP address and not allow them to post. I just noticed on planet Nautique that they have a "reputation number" associated with the posters name. I know that no system is perfect it's just an idea
i agree. just about every other forum i am involved with has gone the same route with the feedback or "reputation rating" I think that would be a good place to start.

Anyone else notice that the number of "older" accounts is pretty small? I often look at the "join date" of posters, especially when they are arguing, and they arent the guys who have been around a while...
Old    John Brine (mnwakerider)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-07-2013, 8:24 PM Reply   
I agree. I now "surf" the nautique site more than WW. It's due to the lack of legitimate conversation. It feels like there are more users but less useful commentary. Looking back last two years, I only posted installs and updates/projects on the planetnautique site. 4 years ago it was only posted here...

I would love to see more installs from companies that are smaller shops. It is inspiration for me and part of what drives me to do the work and projects I do.

I do not think a shop posting pics about their installs from across the country is advertising. I think it is industry progression and should be encouraged not banned. That my .02.

Signed a long time WW reader and poster
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-07-2013, 8:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnwakerider View Post
I do not think a shop posting pics about their installs from across the country is advertising. I think it is industry progression and should be encouraged not banned. That my .02.
x1,000 From an even older WW reader and poster. (pre site change for those can remember)
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-07-2013, 9:04 PM Reply   
No forum is perfect. They all have the same issues. Drama, Doushe Baggery,Negitivity,Trolls. The list go's on and on. And some times we all like a good Juicy thread! Who here has not tuned into a crazy drama filled thread the near mention of the Lon thread brings a smile to many people's face

Is the lack of new exciting content the reason for some of the problems, Mom always said "idle hands are the devils play tools" no I dont this so. Many of you have said that "problem child" members and bickering have turned you off. What can be done about this. Can we explore a system that Boots or weeds out problem members?

Here is my thinking. Sometimes when you go to a party and it's full you don't notice all the weirdos, it's only when the party dies down do you notice the roaches. I guess the Key is to keep the party going, Have the bouncer throw out who they can and just keep at it. Hopefully things will even themselves out.
Old    John Brine (mnwakerider)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-07-2013, 9:08 PM Reply   
@ralph I remember she the "old site". I even remember posting on the new site suggestion section that Dave asked for new ideas and input. The best idea was not to change anything because the content is what made th community, not signature banners and animated emoticons...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Last edited by mnwakerider; 11-07-2013 at 9:10 PM.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-07-2013, 9:16 PM Reply   
IMO WW has transitioned from a watersport forum where everyone is welcomed and supported to a showcase for people to talk about the next generation oversized/priced wave makers. I've seen plenty of people asking for advice get left hanging for various reasons.

1. You have an I/O you won't get much love here.
2. You must have a V drive or you won't have fun.
3. Sell what you have and get xxxxx because it's the best.
4. No response at all

Ask a question about buying an expensive boat and everyone comes out of the woodwork.....and is an expert.

Hell, I was excited when the weather turned this spring and I dewinterized my boat. Decided to post up a picture and was informed that my graphics were lame. My boat is an 07 and has the graphics from the time....sorry. (I'm not thin skinned. Just using it as an example). God forbid anyone mentions tube, kneeboard, or hydrofoil.

Probably will get flamed but who cares.
Old     (buzzardmountainz)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-08-2013, 8:12 AM Reply   
craig from TX Mastercraft can't even post pictures of boats in the boat forum.

Let that sink in.

Pictures of boats in the boat forum.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-08-2013, 9:38 AM Reply   
Perhaps a group of active moderators and some more structure, such as moving posts to areas where there is a better fit for them. I don't know but the forums on iboats.com are very active and have a group of very active moderators that provide input as well as enforcing the rules and helping new posters. They have the advantage of being supported by the parent company which sells product from their site.
WakeWorld is my favourite forum on the internet. Part of that is from the personality of some posters and part is because it is active enough, although it has slowed down.
Now, I post primarily in this section because that is where my interest, and expertise are. Other sections of the WakeWorld forums I read occasionally, it's just that the mechanical aspects are more where my brain is at than the sport aspects. Maybe there are other issues with other areas but I am of the opinion that more active moderators would keep threads on track and close those that just become pissing matches.
I don't expect that this would be an easy thing for Dave to manage but maybe several people could be involved to help keep things focused.
It would wreck my internet life not being able to read on WakeWorld. (Sappy but probably true)

Thanks for raising the issue Grant.
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-08-2013, 10:12 AM Reply   
I will agree things have definitely changed in the last couple years. As others have said it seems to be more of a bashing between what boat is better and typically coming from people that don't own or will never own the boat in question to begin with. I'll admit I come on this site everyday and multiple times a day to see what's going on and in the last while not much changes. We used to get threads like the one Grant did with the underwater lights that was huge and very extensive along with a lot of different DIY projects people were working on.....which was all awesome to see. The battles are a real turn off and I have better things to do in my life then to get in an internet war over who is correct or trying to pass off our ideology as the truth. I see both sides of the argument for posts such as Craig's posting pictures of boats. On the other hand it's what this site is about, seeing the different boats out there, color combinations, what have you. There is a line but I don't see how it's that much different then a person posting pictures of their own brand new rig.

I don't know how to make it better at this point. All I can say is I hope it can turn itself around. I don't have a large pool of people that enjoy the sport and the related knowledge base of products that I am interested in so I find myself here where I among like minded people who have the same stoke I do.

I think a rating system for members would be a good thing. X number of complaints against a person gets you banned from posting for a period of time or altogether booted. The pot stirrers have no benefit to the forum and only hurt it further.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-08-2013, 10:17 AM Reply   
I have to say WW is still my favorite internet forum too. I also visit multiple times a day!!!

Just thought of another reason there is possibly less traffic on the site. When many of us joined years ago boats were much more affordable. The demographic buying them was probably a bit different. Now that boats are $100K, the people that are buying them are not typically the demographic that spends time surfing the internet and forums. When new boats were $40k-$60K it was more of a middle class sport. Not sure this theory holds water, but makes sense???
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-08-2013, 11:48 AM Reply   
Yeah I've been on wakeworld pretty consistently since around 04 and things have definitely changed. A lot less stoke for the sport overall and a lot more pissing matches. I tend to hang out more in the boats, accessories, and tow vehicles forum because I love seeing all the different mods and have gotten ton of ideas for different things over the years. Lately, it's been hard to find a decent thread. I think it's because what everyone has said... more expensive boats have weeded out a lot of the market.

Have people noticed it's been kind of the same for snowboarding? I'm not into snowboarding but it was huge when I was in high school close to 10 years ago. Now I never seem to hear about it much where I'm at.
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-08-2013, 11:53 AM Reply   
One thing that I can think of that pushes people away or just turns them off. When new people post a common question we send them to the search function or to another thread.
If we want to keep the site fresh we need to continue to answer the same questions even though it has been asked before. It will keep content fresh and keep generating idea's around old problems. While that does not provide more content for those that have been here forever it keeps people interested in what's relevant for them.
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-08-2013, 11:54 AM Reply   
I wonder if this thread will get deleted... ha
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-08-2013, 12:50 PM Reply   
I think a lot of this has nothing to do with Wakeworld or the policies. I am noticing a trend like this on a LOT of forums that I'm on - specifically when a large portion of the targeted crowd is say 15-30 (like WW). You are seeing the new generation of internet/forum users. They are everywhere. They "grew up" with the internet - they have a feeling of anonymity and hide behind that. They have spent the last decade saying things online that they wouldn't say in person because everyone does this. It's a tame version of "cyber bullying" you hear about with kids in schools. Kind of the "Twitter effect". Never before would a "fan" of an athlete have the kind of access to them that they do now..

Example - Michael Jordan. He had millions of fans and was loved and hated by many. Even people who were his "critics" or haters (aka - Knicks/Pacers fans) would have loved the opportunity to meet him, shake his hand and say "I'm a huge Knicks fan - but I respect your talent".. In today's world - it is absolutely DISGUSTING to see the crap that average joe cool kid twitter follower will say to LeBron James.. "Yeah you ******, your wife is ugly and I'd kick your ass if I saw you in the street" --- Signed "TwitterMobster69InYourMom" You get this. Never in a billion years would this person say that to them in person. But you have the anonymity.. it's not like LeBron or Jon Jones or Tiger Woods or Shane Bonifay or Zach Parise or any other famous athlete is going to chase down every big talker on the net who does this.

There was a time not too terribly long ago where you had internet "trolling".. This was a bit of an art form - took some craftsmanship and it's intended consequence was to ruffle a couple feathers and create a few laughs. In the new area - you've got a guy like JetRanger who just runs around here acting like a complete dickhole all the time.. He thinks it's "trolling" but in reality - he's just ruining the forum. He can be found on nearly every forum these days and tpically the younger the audience, the more prevalent this becomes. Rest assured that this type of behavior doesn't happen with the older generation. There is no "JetRanger" or anything close to it on the "Men over 55 with cancer" forum.. It's the people who use the forum as though they can say/do anything with no recourse (this is reality) that ruin it...

Yes, part of the downturn of WakeWorld (and every forum, imo) is the sponsorship dollars. vs. sense discussion that is part of what Grant is talking about. But a vast majority of, I believe, has a root cause of these people acting like total jerkoffs every time they login.. They drive away the solid posters who would have provided the content we all love.. So you get less of that content and more discussions about MB vs. Axis and all of the keyboard warriors showing their allegiance. I'm a member of a lot of forums and lord knows I used to spend my fair share of time "trolling" --- but today's internet tough guy talker is a different breed. I think ultimately our culture has now been focused around social media and internet anonymity that has ruined some of the moral fabric of what made forums like this so great.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-08-2013, 1:42 PM Reply   
Everyone has come up some with good theory's each one of them sounds solid & the common thread between them all seems to be "crappy posters" Dave what is you thought's on dealing with this issue. And or your take on this subject?
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       11-08-2013, 1:43 PM Reply   
David, I want to hear your side. I'm in no way calling you out. You have done A LOT for the sport and wakeworld has helped put wakeboarding on the map. However, I want to know your feelings as to why WW has changed so much. I want to thank you for helping wakeboarding get to this level and doing charity work for kids. Your an A+ man.
Old    Erik Vannorsdel (MBofTexas)      Join Date: Aug 2013       11-08-2013, 1:44 PM Reply   
^^^^ Well said.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       11-08-2013, 1:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Everyone has come up some with good theory's each one of them sounds solid & the common thread between them all seems to be "crappy posters" Dave what is you thought's on dealing with this issue. And or your take on this subject?
Great minds think alike haha now if I can use my "great mind" to make DIY's like the king himself haha
Old    Trayson Harmon (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       11-08-2013, 5:09 PM Reply   
In some ways, many of the enthusist forums (aren't they all?) will slow down as things get "figured out" and innovations decrease.

I can imagine as people were pioneering stuff like custom ballast systems and custom lighting and custom audio installs; that traffic was high. The early adopters were pushing the envelope and there was a real demand for sharing of knowledge and ideas.

I've seen the same thing happen in other forums I'm in. For example, I was an active member of a subforum specificly for owners of a certain generation of Convertible BMW's. There was a TON of traffic and activity as many were breaking new ground modding or fixing things. However, after a while we got to a point where things matured and there wasn't as much new ground to talk about. Just a bunch of threads from newbies about "how do i fix my broken power top".

I would imagine to some degree that things like that are happening here. There's not a tremendous reason to do write up's on custom ballast installs because most of it has been covered.

The hottest threads are by the ones that are pushing the envelope and really innovating. I.e. the threads on figuring out the DIY surfgate or NSS. The threads on major builds, and so on. But after a while I think forums run out of stuff to talk about. Or they run out of people that can afford to push the envelope on more and more expensive boats. Also a lot of those people that are really pushing the envelope and are on the cutting edge often find themselves moving onto different things...

I like the diversity here, but in many ways that diversity keeps me from posting a LOT of stuff here. If I'm going to look for a solution to a given problem, I'm 90% more likely to post it on the Supra forum if it's related to my brand of boat. For general sense of community I tend to stick to the Skiers Choice worlds of the Supra and Moomba forums.

I've met some cool people here. In fact almost all the other LOCAL boat owners I know I found via a thread in the "find a 3rd" subsection.

I can echo the thought that I don't have a lot to contribute on discussions of the higher priced boats. I have an "old" 1992 direct drive, so a lot of what I have going on isn't applicable to newer/more expensive boats...

Anyway, there's some of my random thoughts.
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-08-2013, 5:36 PM Reply   
^^^^^ Good points
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       11-08-2013, 5:57 PM Reply   
In all seriousness to answer Jeff_mn:

Anyone who thinks I'm trolling here does not get me at all, and I know there are a lot of people here who do "get" what I'm doing. Anyone who follows me and really reads into what I'm doing and saying knows I'm being facetious and ironic and simply showing you guys how foolish you all sound when you all argue about which boat has a nicer prop shaft or how much mesh in a Tige seat is too much. I have historically supported Mastercraft because no else did, and attacked Tige and MB because everyone loves them; guys like MHunter or Robert who are blatant brand junkies draw my bullets because they are the people who truly represent all that is wrong on this site, blind to everything but their brand.

I am privileged to have had a life where I grew up on the lake. I love the sport and though my schooling doesn't allow me throw down 7's every weekend I am ashamed that the free-spirited community of the sport I grew up in in Southern Florida has depredated to this, boat snobbery and brand bashing. I provide social commentary, that's all...no more no less, and I know some of you get this. At least a dozen people have PM'ed me over the months and told me exactly this, they see my game and they appreciate it. I KNOW the threads I'm involved in draw more traffic and if for nothing more I know many are entertained.

Thanks all who have PM'ed me in support.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste...

Last edited by JetRanger; 11-08-2013 at 6:07 PM.
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-08-2013, 6:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
I have historically supported Mastercraft because no else did, and attacked Tige and MB because everyone loves them
Seems an awful lot like trolling to me...
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-08-2013, 7:27 PM Reply   
I still enjoy it. I visit most of the major brand forums but i still like here too. Knowledge is power. I love opinions even if they differ.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-08-2013, 10:48 PM Reply   
Chris obviously has some pent up feelings for black dongs. I'm sure that's healthy right? Sure it is...
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-09-2013, 11:00 AM Reply   
"Thanks all who have PM'ed me in support. "

^^^

Was one of them David Williams, saying, 'thank you for improving my site?" You should humbly offer to serve as co-moderator.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-09-2013, 12:11 PM Reply   
Is this thread actually going to turn into an argument rather than a discussion that does concern everyone who is arguing?

Seriously?
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-09-2013, 12:19 PM Reply   
Here's my take...

When the site was re-designed (very badly IMO), many, many people left a LOT of feedback suggesting changes and complaining about things that had changed. From what I could and can tell, they were basically ignored, so you had a lot of people just bail on the site completely after the re-design.

IMO boat manufacturers are some of the worst at promoting their products and the shops (audio installers, riggers, etc) do a way better job of promoting a brand than the manufacturer ever does. Banning or deleting posts by shops that showcase boats and the customizations available and possible is just dumb. I can't believe a boat manufacturer that is an advertiser on this site would have a problem with a shop posting a pimped out stereo install in one of their new models in a forum on this site - but maybe I'm just stupid. Posting sales and crap like that I do think is over the line - buy an ad for that.

I too think the demographic has changed. 10 or 15 years ago wakeboarding was new and cool, but not so much anymore. For instance I used to be able to find wakeboard competitions on TV a few years ago, but can't remember the last time I saw that. With boat prices exploding and the price of gas going through the roof I think a lot of people that were casual boaters and wakeboarders got out of it due to the cost.

I think a lot like NASCAR which boomed and peaked around 2007 or so, wakeboarding is kinda in the same "boat" - there will always be the die-hards, but I don't think it's a popular now as it was 5 or 6 years ago.
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-09-2013, 3:53 PM Reply   
One of the things that I've always hated about the new site is the classifieds section. I used to buy and sell prwtty much all my gear on wakeworld. Now because you can't post questions or anything about an item being sold the whole buying selling process is terrible and I hardly find anything on hete anymore. I haven't sols anything since the site was changed. I actually like the new site, just wish the classifieds were formatted different.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-09-2013, 6:39 PM Reply   
Where is our fearlessleader on this subject????
Old    Justin Michael (JustinMD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       11-09-2013, 7:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
I too think the demographic has changed. 10 or 15 years ago wakeboarding was new and cool, but not so much anymore. For instance I used to be able to find wakeboard competitions on TV a few years ago, but can't remember the last time I saw that. With boat prices exploding and the price of gas going through the roof I think a lot of people that were casual boaters and wakeboarders got out of it due to the cost.
This
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       11-10-2013, 8:38 AM Reply   
The boat projects are by my favorite threads, but the major ones are becoming fewer and farther between. Look at how much activity the guy who made his own NSS system recently got, or the guy who redid the hydrodyne. In the early days, almost none of the boats came out of the box ready to go. Few boats had ballast and towers, and those that did had small systems that were slow. We were retrofitting old ski boats to be wakeboats. Then as towers became more standard, there were still ballast installs and stereos to do. Now, most of the new boats are coming with big stereos and decent (not huge) ballast setups. More recently, the manufacturers are making the ballast systems easier to ad onto, with plug and play.

As was stated above, the demographic is also changing and part of that is those of us who have been on here a while, are also a changing demographic. What I'm doing today on a day to day basis is a lot different than what I was doing 7-8 years ago, and I'm guessing a lot of the people on here are the same way. I've also learned a lot in those 7-8 years. When I was shopping for and then had my first inboard, the forums were a crutch for me every time I had an issue. Now, I can troubleshoot a lot of those myself (in large part because of things I've learned here over the years).
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-11-2013, 3:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Where is our fearlessleader on this subject????
Crickets....
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       11-11-2013, 3:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Crickets....
Aaaany minute now
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-11-2013, 4:12 PM Reply   
Dave changed the site, effectively ruined the community of it all, deletes posts at will because of sponsorships and obligations (somewhat understandable, man has to make a living), ruined the classifieds, and the site has managed to keep around most of the trolls and idiots while most the good old members never bothered to transition to the new site.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-11-2013, 10:01 PM Reply   
Threads like this pop up every year.

Ive been on here quite a few years and I thought that this site has been a lot more active this year than past years. With the expansion of cable parks, the rapid growth of wakesurfing, and "game changing" boat threads this site has had a lot to talk about.

If for some reason the site really is becoming less active, than my theory would be that the average age of wakeworld users is increasing and their riding is decreasing due to other things in life.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-12-2013, 7:49 AM Reply   
the poor wakesurf forum has been like watching paint dry, while checking to see if and when polar bear reviews come out, nothing new or even comments on other threads in days
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       11-12-2013, 8:03 AM Reply   
Step One: End daylight savings time
Step Two: Stop the rotation of the earth so it stays summer year-round (Sorry Southern Hemisphere)

I think if we could just sort these two things the site would stay busy all year.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       11-12-2013, 10:10 AM Reply   
“I hate to admit it but Wakeworld has slowed down.”

I’m not sure how you define “slowed down” but our traffic on these forums is higher than it has ever been and it increases every year. I do notice that as people get older they tend to perceive the site as slowing down when it’s really just the way they’re using the site that has changed. They’ve already seen 90% of the threads on there, so there is less for them to read. Their lives are busier and their priorities have changed, so they have less time to tune in. They’ve matured and have less interest in the drama and trolling that is inevitable at some level in every forum. Most of the guys that I wakeboard with I met on this forum and they all used to be active members, but very few of them tune in much anymore. They all still ride, but the reasons above have them tuning in much less. However, a new generation has taken their place.

“I think the site has slowed down because of winter like most have said and social media.”

I don’t really see much in social media that replaces what this forum offers. We provide a place where people can ask questions and get feedback from a wakeboarding community consisting of over 21,000 registered members and hundreds of thousands of non-registered lurkers. I guess if you were just posting to our forums because it was the easiest way to show your “friends” what you’re up to, Facebook and Twitter may have pulled you away.

“Users here want to see & discuss new products and or projects. Unless it's done by a Private individual or a payed sponcer it's deleted.”

Incorrect. Even if it is done by a paying sponsor, it will be deleted. Not even paying sponsors can advertise on the forums.

“Manufactures or Shops can't show case work or products unless they pay.”

Incorrect. If somebody has a project that is worthy of showing to our readers, they are welcome to do a write-up and submit it as an article. If I think it’s valuable, I will post it up. Here’s an example of one such project: http://wakeworld.com/news/feature/bo...d-tige-z3.html.

“Now I know it can't be a free for all or this place would turn into spam city with people promoting what ever!”

You can’t be a little bit pregnant. You can either eliminate all advertisements, whether they benefit the community or not, or you can allow all advertisements and turn WakeWorld into a spam festival. The only middle ground is for me to spend half my day deciding which posts “benefit” the community and the other half explaining to those that got deleted why they didn’t pass muster. I’m guessing I’d also be spending a good chunk of time trying to convince our advertisers why they should keep paying to reach our readers when they can just do it for free through the forums.

“Is it possible that users posts could be rated with some sort of a points system and for example if people were too negative the Community as a whole could give them negative feedback and with enough negative points or feedback the system could delete their IP address and not allow them to post.”

If the users of the forums want to have more control in shaping the content, there are a couple of options. There is a thread rating at the top of every thread. You can choose to rate that thread anywhere from ‘excellent’ to ‘terrible.” By adding a rating to a thread, you are helping your fellow readers to decide whether or not they want to check out that thread. You can also go to the person’s profile and click on the “Report this person” link to send me a message if you think this person needs to be disciplined or just kicked to the curb. You can also click on the Thread Tools at the top of a thread and just email the page link to me with a note about the problem. I keep track of all those submissions and I take action on them. Unfortunately, most people will just rant on a thread and that doesn’t get seen 90% of the time. I can’t fix what I don’t know about.

“I am of the opinion that more active moderators would keep threads on track and close those that just become pissing matches.”

Best idea in the thread. Definitely, food for thought.

“Maybe Dave Williams should set up a policy where, if a dealership posts something he feels is advertising, he might do the following. Instead of unwarned deletion, he allows them to contact him first (or his stated policies for the site says he will contact them after so long of a grace period), and allow them to pay a nominal fee to keep the post up.”

Not bad!
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-12-2013, 11:35 AM Reply   
I have been here since the beginning with Dave. I am not sure how many of us have been here since the early days? This is a very normal cycle for this site and we have all been frustrated about it since than. I think the things that are slowing my interest in the last year here, is all the childish nonsense and bickering. This used to be mostly grown, mature and very passionate people that loved wakeboarding. Now that the sport has expanded so much, the members are much more diverse. Also, there used to be an unwritten rule about being respectful and here people out here, that is gone. I don't think it is here, it is just our society. We see it on the lakes every day as well.

I am not sure of the solution as this is a very common problem on forums. My only thought is to charge members a minimal monthly fee for "private" forums which would be the same thing as we have, but might eliminate some of those random people. I think for me it would be worth $5-10/month to not have to read all the nonsense and still be able to get to quality members. I realize this does not guarantee removing all the bad members, but might slow them down? I do this with a few auto forums and we rarely have the nonsense there. When it does happen the members band together to deal with the person and not end up in a war on the forum.

Wakeboarding is my passion and has been for 20 years. I want to be on the water more than any place in the world. Wakeboarding is not just a hobby, it is my church. Most of my best friends over this time are from wakeboarding. We all share the same feelings about this. Just in the last week I have communicated with old friends that have roots here and were also former pro wakeboarders. That would not have been possible without this place. So no keyboard cowboy will bother me, but I like to share the stoke. I like to discuss differences in boats, wakes, boards,etc... It helps fuel the fire and keep me educated in the sport I love.

I for one choose not to rebut attacks made on me. I try to always respect others views and keep an open line of communication. The bottom line is the we can not control those that cause the problems, we can only control ourselves.

Can't we all just get along?
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-12-2013, 1:56 PM Reply   
I am not sure if it is an option on the tech stack here at Wakeworld but on other forums the "users" get to control when an abuser is kicked off the site not the moderator. If an abuser gets a certain number of votes from the community they get banned for a day, than a week, than a month and then forever. It stopped nearly all of our issues on that site.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       11-12-2013, 2:42 PM Reply   
I just wanna ride and nobody wants to go cuz it's not 85` our;(
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-13-2013, 9:00 AM Reply   
Yhea PHatboy - Something like that would be cool
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-13-2013, 10:18 AM Reply   
Dave thanks for your reply.

I’m not sure how you define “slowed down” but our traffic on these forums is higher than it has ever been and it increases every day"


I define "slowed down" by users posting "Useful content" someone even made a obscure refferance to this years "Boat Bun" thread as a indication of how things of become here.

People used to enjoy sharing pic's projects and information. Anything from a guy posting pic's of his New puppy in the Non Wake section to "how to projects" in the boats and accessories section. This content has shriveled up IMO.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-13-2013, 3:14 PM Reply   
Gwest, I'm actually pretty sure you killed the DIY threads on here. Your DIY's make all other comers feel unworthy.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-14-2013, 6:04 AM Reply   
Well it's been 3 days since ANYONE posted in the wake surf forum, Ragboy only posts on occasion anymore, Surf Dad is gone for good. Surf Dad spent a day on a brand new production boat last week that has never been riden or even seen water for that matter, I'm sure many of you would like to know how it went and so on, I guess they got tired of the BS slinging, pump accusations etc. This is where I feel things went wrong and the forums lost people, post etc. I will say this and use these as a reference only, Ragboy has a Tige and post a write up on convex V or whatever and he gets slammed as a shameless pumper, paid poster and so on and then you have Chatwake writing book like post on Axis and he is wake God !
Old    Daniel (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-14-2013, 7:27 AM Reply   
I know he is a associated with Inland now, but I realy missed the posts of jeff making new boards. Like others have said, compliments of the censorship I now keep up with all of their new testing and theories on facebook.

How many people attempted to make their own surf board after seeing jef make tons of them? I know I had two rough looking attempts.


And turning the big builds into articles (like the Wetsounds Tige) removes our abilities to chime in and ask questions get insight etc.
If I wanted to read articles I would just open a magazine. Or is that where your wanting the site to go?
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       11-14-2013, 9:43 AM Reply   
I used to post here a long time ago . I still read some of the posts from time to time. I find most of the posts these days boring and useless. You have banned most of the outspoken members calling them trolls because they buck the system .The posts that attracted the most participation were also the most controversial and the most entertaining. Any professional information has also been deleted and banned . Even the posts on this thread are calling for more members to be banned ? Why not ban all the members and just have the elite post then everybody will be in line . This forum is like a highly regulated and patrolled lake its just no fun to come anymore .
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-14-2013, 9:57 AM Reply   
I will add to cowboys and others comments above. When I asked a friend why he doesn't post here as much he used to he said this. " why should I open myself up to the neg comments often given out in a thread, when I could post on Face book & I don't have to deal with people trying to poke holes in my work"

I think the thing that has come up over and over in this thread is the problematic users have driven away the people that contribute.
I think it's a great Idea that the community as a whole decides who is acting up and gives negative and POSITIVE feed back & ultimately weeds out bad users and rewards good users.

Dave's suggestion to report or turn in people is just not reality. IMO people are not going to take the time to "send Dave a link or note" they are just gonna see Dousche baggery in action and then they are gonna check out. Given how people are so used to giving feed back with a "Like" button it would be great if people could simply click to give feed back and hopefully encourage positive behavior and "Flush down the Brown"
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-14-2013, 10:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
I will add to cowboys and others comments above. When I asked a friend why he doesn't post here as much he used to he said this. " why should I open myself up to the neg comments often given out in a thread, when I could post on Face book & I don't have to deal with people trying to poke holes in my work"

I think the thing that has come up over and over in this thread is the problematic users have driven away the people that contribute.
I think it's a great Idea that the community as a whole decides who is acting up and gives negative and POSITIVE feed back & ultimately weeds out bad users and rewards good users.


Dave's suggestion to report or turn in people is just not reality. IMO people are not going to take the time to "send Dave a link or note" they are just gonna see Dousche baggery in action and then they are gonna check out. Given how people are so used to giving feed back with a "Like" button it would be great if people could simply click to give feed back and hopefully encourage positive behavior and "Flush down the Brown"
You are wrong. JetPilot made it very clear in his response that he's not a jerkoff - we just aren't intelligent enough to understand his high level trolling.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-14-2013, 10:14 AM Reply   
Froggy: I agree with some of your point but I must disagree with you on other points. You use the word "outspoken members" that IMO is another way of saying $hit stirrers . IMO many of the "Outspoken" members are listed and named above. And I agree with the people that listed them. Often they can Yes drive up the traffic in a a particular thread but over all it degraded the quality of the forum. Example Do people slow down to look at a car crash & look at the carnage? Most certainly. Does it make you feel better for doing so? Often not!

Look I'm all for a free for all & no regulation if everyone is here for the same reason and treats everyone with respect ect.
But often that's not the case and that's why a good party has a good doorman and takes out the trash.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       11-14-2013, 11:02 AM Reply   
Well The trash was taken out over a year ago and the site still has the same issues. I don't think you will ever get such a diverse crowd to just agree and play nice . The brand specific forums are a lot less controversial and more informative, but that is because the members are all like minded . Try posting how much you like your Correct Craft on the Mastercraft forum. Just like when conservatives and liberals get together sometimes things erupt . By banning one group you will get everybody under control. And just like communist China No controversy ,No exchange of ideas, No advancement. I don't know how to fix it but this restaurant needs a remodel and a new chef to attract new and get back old customers. I will crawl back under my lily pad now .

PS Grant that is one fine Nauti you have built.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-14-2013, 1:28 PM Reply   
Oh. Wakeworld is still rocking but a group of members are loosing the love. A select group. A group of old guys. Dang it. I'm old.
Old    Rick Hoag (rickB52)      Join Date: Mar 2012       11-14-2013, 6:31 PM Reply   
I know it is hard but can't we just decide to ignore the BS comments from certain people and move on…. just imagine ignoring their input like they never posted - wouldn't take long for them to stop posting…..
Old     (buzzardmountainz)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-15-2013, 10:24 AM Reply   
I'll preface this by saying I'm as big of a car nut as a boat nut. So I love seeing the SEMA thread even if it's in the "Boat" section.

However, is it not odd that you can post car pics in the boat forum but not boat pics in the boat forum???
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       11-15-2013, 12:40 PM Reply   
If more members come to the table with meaningful content, comments and discussions, it will be a more enjoyable experience.

Stop feeding the trolls and start dishing out some stoke.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-15-2013, 2:45 PM Reply   
WakeWorld has always had this element, its just gotten more prevalent. Back in the day it was a smaller community and you pretty much had the same group of people talking. As the forum has gotten bigger it has become less personal, more aggressive and generally less welcoming. I think it really is just a negative feature of its success and far-reaching scope.

As jeff_mn mentioned, its the age of hiding behind the keyboard and not knowing when its best to simply shut up. This is a website full of dudes and we suffer the issues that come from that. Too much chest thumping, egotistical, opinionated BS that doesn't have a place in society, but is perfectly acceptable on a message board. Someone like JetRanger may be trying to point out the hypocrisy of the forums, but because intent and sarcasm are easily misconstrued with typed words, he comes across as a troll and only exacerbates situations.

I don't come here as often as I used to and I definitely try and avoid all the threads that just turn into pissing matches. I would encourage everyone to think about how they present themselves on any message board. I know I've been guilty of the whole "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, and this is the root of the issues. We just need to remember that we are all here for a kick ass sport (& its cousins), and we are all trying to share as much stoke as possible. We may ride different boards, boats or styles, but in the end of the day, we would all stop our day to give a fellow WakeWorld-er a tow and a beer. So in my opinion this isn't on Dave to make WakeWorld something special, this is on us, the long-time users of this site to make this place awesome. It starts with good content and is sealed by us users treating everyone with the respect and stoke that wakeboarding is all about.
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-15-2013, 3:53 PM Reply   
^Word.
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-15-2013, 4:29 PM Reply   
" So in my opinion this isn't on Dave to make WakeWorld something special, this is on us, the long-time users of this site to make this place awesome."

Big Heavy/Small Light has written a thoughtful post ... but ... I disagree in a tiny difference. David Williams, you are the shepard of this site. I bet that, while you need to make this site pay for itself (and then some, for you and your family), your real pride in this site is that you created something that has such gravity in the wakeboarding world (and its cousin sports).

So I caution this. I never saw so many new families and youngsters wakeboarding on my home lake as this year. It was just an exponential explosion since the recession years. I have no idea if they are aware of this site, or lurk. But apparently, none (that I can tell) post. Also, a lot of the oldsters from this area that I know (and you know of some, since I recall you engaging in dialog with them) that used to post here, no longer do. I have no idea if they lurk or what. I know that most still wakeboard.

My point is this. A sizable (substantially sizable) potential audience (and participants) for this site are, giving it a pass.

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