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Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       11-06-2013, 6:00 AM Reply   
Speaking with no specific inside knowledge on this, I cant imagine the investment that Indmar is about to take on. Its not just water pumps and CATS but a whole new engine management system integration with our needed speed control, wake enhancement gadgets, surf gadgets, ect. I have no Idea how it will turn out but I commend Indmar for attempting a new approach. The Ford thing was a real surprise to me.

Although much too short for us wanting to know all the plans and specs, I thought Chuck did a really good job compared to all the other presentations. He left me with the impression that he was truly committed to seeing the project thru.

Because I have a wakesurfing buddy who lost his niece due to CO poisoning on an (non-Supra) old ski boat, I PRAY this motor helps getting CATS on 500hp+ motors. I know Indmar is trying to get this done.

Great to see the Supra in the background.

Last edited by redsupralaunch; 11-06-2013 at 6:03 AM. Reason: clarifing boat make
Old    Jason (corerider)      Join Date: May 2008       11-06-2013, 6:39 AM Reply   
It will be very interesting to see how well this pans out for Ford, Indmar, and Supra... Overhead cam engines aren't really known for making torque at low engine speeds, which is what we as tow boat owners need. I have no specific engine data for the "marineized 6.2L" but going off the Raptor engine specs it doesn't even get above 300 ft/lbs until around 3300 RPMs and makes peak torque at 4500 RPMs. In my opinion there will have to be one heck of a gear reduction v-drive and large prop to make up that lost low-end torque compared to other options out there.

Here are a few dyno graphs I found... Granted these are on chasis dynos and the numbers may be a bit lower than going through a boat drivetrain, but either way I don't get warm fuzzies.



Link to article dyno graph was pulled from... http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/02/f...en-more-power/

Now if they threw a Whipple supercharger on top, those numbers are quite promising! Nice flat torque curve all the way throught the RPM range. I guess we will have to wait and see once the actual engine is released and not just the truck engine sitting on a stand.



Link to Whipple Supercharger's dyno info... http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1274

Last edited by corerider; 11-06-2013 at 6:43 AM.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-06-2013, 6:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexair View Post
No more GM - Ford motors only in the line
Where are you seeing this? Can you post a link? I watched the video and they only said the 6.2L, they never mentioned a full lineup of Ford motors.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-06-2013, 6:57 AM Reply   
Found the All Ford announcement on their FB page but it doesn't have a timeline.
Quote:
GM has been a great partner but to satisfy the demands of today's towboat we will transition to an all Ford line of engines. Again, GM has been a great partner and we will continue to work together to service the engines we have out in the market for many many years to come. We are by no means cutting our ties with GM but moving forward our new line of engines when launched will be Ford only.
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-06-2013, 7:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Found the All Ford announcement on their FB page but it doesn't have a timeline.
So there might be an ecoboost marine motor at some point. Very interesting.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-06-2013, 7:43 AM Reply   
Engine prices are crazy on upgrading your boat. You think this will be any different with Ford? Will the consumer save anything or will this be even more money...?
I think the upgrade from the 350 HP to the 450HP has been about $10K. The upgrade from the 350HP to the 550HP was like $20K. My numbers are not exact but something along these lines.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-06-2013, 9:16 AM Reply   
You are about right with the msrp upgrade prices. It won't be any cheaper, if anything it will probably be more because last time I checked, the boat mfr's haven't put out the same boat with less cost in the the last 7 years at least.
Old    Alex Yermolenko (alexair)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-06-2013, 9:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Where are you seeing this? Can you post a link? I watched the video and they only said the 6.2L, they never mentioned a full lineup of Ford motors.
https://www.facebook.com/IndmarMarin...ocation=stream
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       11-06-2013, 9:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
Engine prices are crazy on upgrading your boat. You think this will be any different with Ford? Will the consumer save anything or will this be even more money...?
I think the upgrade from the 350 HP to the 450HP has been about $10K. The upgrade from the 350HP to the 550HP was like $20K. My numbers are not exact but something along these lines.
on mbsports.net boat builder under options, prices on upgrading from the standard 350 to 410hp@ $5,500, 350 to 450hp @ $10,300, and 350 to 550hp@ $15,995
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-06-2013, 11:20 AM Reply   
anyone know when this takes affect for indmar? I will be building an a24 shortly and wondering when the options take affect and which motor I would be getting?
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       11-06-2013, 11:33 AM Reply   
Indmar not the only one loosing GM.

The following is from http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5...ndrive-in-2014 Posted Oct 25th, 2013

Mercury Marine plans to introduce a new sterndrive engine next year as the company moves away from sterndrive engine blocks made by General Motors and strives to shift demand back to the segment.

“We’re coming out with a new sterndrive with lots of features no consumer’s ever seen before on a sterndrive,” Brunswick Corp. CEO Dusty McCoy told investors and analysts during a conference call on Thursday to discuss third-quarter earnings. “We think that’s important, as we move away from GM blocks and we own this whole franchise, that we bring something new to the market that the public’s never seen, and we’re confident that we’ll begin to stop the erosion in the sterndrive market.”

At least two boatbuilders have indicated that GM will stop producing the sterndrive blocks used by MerCruiser and Volvo Penta, although engine companies and GM have declined to specifically comment.

Despite the consumer shift away from the segment and the engine company’s focus on sterndrives, McCoy said Mercury and MerCruiser are well positioned for growth because the switch from sterndrive to outboard engines has largely occurred in freshwater markets where Mercury has a higher market share.

It is unlikely that Brunswick’s boat group will “actually achieve positive earnings” in 2013, McCoy said. Additionally, the sterndrive and inboard products are losing a little market share, he said.

“This is according to plan,” McCoy said. “This is why we’re taking down the pipeline. If we look at it in the following way, there’s a lot of small product where we’ve just taken models out because we don’t make that good of money on those and we’ve got a lot of great brands moving into those categories. We’ve made the decision not to put those [23-foot and under] models into the marketplace.”

The boat group has also taken some of the 40-foot range models from the lineup. “We carefully chose those models [that] didn’t have the margins on the models we kept have.

“I would say sitting here today that our modern lineup is not as fresh as we would like and we've acknowledged that, but we're also making enormous investment in boats in that 40- to 65-foot range,” McCoy said.

McCoy also indicated that the Bayliner brand also will continue to expand its value offerings similar to the Element. “The Element is an outboard product versus sterndrive and yes, we think there is room in the market for well-priced product, and we think the Bayliner brand is a good place to bring that in.”

— Reagan Haynes
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-06-2013, 12:41 PM Reply   
Mase
I heard 2015. Not sure if this is accurate though.
Old    Detox (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-06-2013, 12:53 PM Reply   
seems like this is something manufacturers are more excited about than consumers.... i'm sure theres guys out there who are, but put me on the list of not. I'd never buy a boat with a ford engine. ever.
Old    Alex R (SBC350)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-06-2013, 1:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10after View Post
seems like this is something manufacturers are more excited about than consumers.... i'm sure theres guys out there who are, but put me on the list of not. I'd never buy a boat with a ford engine. ever.
+1, from what ive heard around here they(GM engines) are reliable... I dont get the big hype.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Old    Kronos (kronoss)      Join Date: Oct 2010       11-06-2013, 10:30 PM Reply   
I did hear that old style gm blocks are not going to be produced anymore, starting 2014.

But that doesnt mean they cant start using the 5.3, or LSx
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       11-07-2013, 6:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10after View Post
seems like this is something manufacturers are more excited about than consumers.... i'm sure theres guys out there who are, but put me on the list of not. I'd never buy a boat with a ford engine. ever.
I hope you don't plan on buying a new boat any time soon then, because you are going to have quite a limited amount of options. Just curious, why not buy a boat with a ford block? If it doesn't cost more, I don't see the big deal
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-07-2013, 7:01 AM Reply   
I am confused too as to why this is such a big deal. I'm not excited about the exact that the ford may or may not get better fuel economy, but if it runs and they warranty it. I don't care.

With ford in the mix and the possibility of an Ecoboost in a boat. I'll take it.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       11-07-2013, 7:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttime41 View Post
If it doesn't cost more, I don't see the big deal
But it will. New boats continue to increase in cost year to year anyway, sometimes by 10% or more over the previous year's model. So why would introducing Ford's flagship V8, that has taken tons of money in R&D to marinize by Indmar, not come with a higher price tag than the tried and true, readily available GM offerings?

Fine by me, let them keep hiking up the cost of new boats. I'm thoroughly enjoying my 2008 that has depreciated in value, little, if at all, in the last several years.
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       11-07-2013, 8:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhyatt_ohp View Post
But it will. New boats continue to increase in cost year to year anyway, sometimes by 10% or more over the previous year's model. So why would introducing Ford's flagship V8, that has taken tons of money in R&D to marinize by Indmar, not come with a higher price tag than the tried and true, readily available GM offerings?

Fine by me, let them keep hiking up the cost of new boats. I'm thoroughly enjoying my 2008 that has depreciated in value, little, if at all, in the last several years.
I could see that being the case unfortunately. My comment was really directed towards those not complaining about price, but because of the fact that the motor is a Ford. I figure the usual Ford vs GM bickering probably has a lot to do with it.

Last edited by Ttime41; 11-07-2013 at 8:29 AM.
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       11-07-2013, 9:57 AM Reply   
The new Idmar is indeed Ford and it just dropped at Sema. Look at the pic/Description of the raptor towpig

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...n=awdailydrive
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-07-2013, 11:20 AM Reply   
It cracks me up how you guys act like marinizing a block is like building a space ship. I seriously doubt you will feel the costs very much on the buyer end.
Old    Joe Stenger (jstenger)      Join Date: Jul 2010       11-07-2013, 3:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Where are you seeing this? Can you post a link? I watched the video and they only said the 6.2L, they never mentioned a full lineup of Ford motors.
According to the question asked on Facebook, the only block will be the 6.2 with different addons such as a supercharger to make the different horse powers.
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       11-07-2013, 4:35 PM Reply   
Maybe Ford is getting into this because of the monopoly GM has had and can charge whatever they want for engines. Competition can only help both cost and performance.
Old    Joshua Creasman (tnvolgrad)      Join Date: Dec 2010       11-07-2013, 5:02 PM Reply   
Why do so many think this is some kind of partnership focused on a hybrid marine engine (e.g. Diesel or Eco). With boat prices soaring past the 6 figure mark, not to mention 6k pound mark - does fuel consumption even matter? If you can afford a 6 figure boat, 20% fuel efficiency probably does not even remotely drive the path to purchase.

Just saying.


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Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-07-2013, 8:53 PM Reply   
Dude... Fuel efficiency matters Everytime this come up on here everyone chimes in saying its important to them. The benefits of diesel over gas in this application just begin at efficiency. Not only would they burn less fuel, they would literally get double the ballast out of the water and last for thousands of hours longer than a gas block. It's such a no brainer. I think the main reasons these boat motor companies don't do it is how much easier it is to tun wrenches on on gas motor than work on a modern turbo diesel. Think how many indmar mechanics at local shops would have to be trained on diesel motors. I just thought if this, I bet the logistics of it would be a nightmare so instead they just keep coming out with higher powered sports car motors for boats.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-07-2013, 8:58 PM Reply   
Think how incredibly In-efficient it would be if semi trucks towed around loads with sports car tuned gas engines. Sure it's an exaggeration but it's kind of the same idea. They would literally spend 3 times the amount they do on fuel. If I could even cut the money I spend putting fuel into my boat in half (considering it's about 100 bucks per day and I ride about 200hrs a year) It would well be worth it.
Old     (Throwaway1)      Join Date: Nov 2013       11-08-2013, 7:47 AM Reply   
somone I think hit on this earlier. but I'm going to elaborate. GM is phasing out V8 Engines built in the Mexico plant all together. NO MORE Marinized GM V8's within the next 4 years. They are raising the price to the builders 7% every year until then, to generate funds to develop and build a supercharged V6 as the replacement. \f the marinizers obviously didn't like that route, hence ford V8's and Mercuriser building their own sourced engines. Watch, PCM will follow. and so on...
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       11-08-2013, 12:02 PM Reply   
I can't imagine riding behind a diesel powered boat, would be nauseating.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-08-2013, 12:28 PM Reply   
why is that? modern diesels burn cleaner than gas vehicles especially outdated chevy blocks designed in the 1970s
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-09-2013, 5:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
why is that? modern diesels burn cleaner than gas vehicles especially outdated chevy blocks designed in the 1970s
The only "outdated" Chevy blocks currently being used in wakeboats is the standard 350 (well, one them was selling a few with the 305 in it too, but that wasn't very common thankfully). Everything else has been designed recently.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-09-2013, 8:42 AM Reply   
That was the specific motor I was referring to. Not that any of the gas motors are bad motors and I think they should always be an option. But for people who run heavy heavy ballast like me diesel would be a true game changer.
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       11-09-2013, 4:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
why is that? modern diesels burn cleaner than gas vehicles especially outdated chevy blocks designed in the 1970s
The small block chevy been around since 1955
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2013, 5:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelerWake View Post
The small block chevy been around since 1955
More proof it's time to move on.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-10-2013, 5:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
More proof it's time to move on.
Moving on could have simply been dropping it from the lineup and using the L96 as the base motor.

The defenders will state that they don't want to drop it, as it is cheap, reliable, cheap to repair and makes enough power for some people's needs.
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       11-10-2013, 5:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
Moving on could have simply been dropping it from the lineup and using the L96 as the base motor.

The defenders will state that they don't want to drop it, as it is cheap, reliable, cheap to repair and makes enough power for some people's needs.
Exactly, I recently bought Malibu LSV with a froze and busted engine. Bought an engine off craigslist for $75. Built it into a 383 with a stroker crank kit, dropped it in yesterday.
Attached Images
 
Old    Jilly (jillyjam)      Join Date: Feb 2006       11-19-2013, 2:19 PM Reply   
Gosh the launch video at SEMA is super horrible...I want my time back from Indmar for making me watch this crap-

Now, where is the oil filter on this thing?
Old    Jack (miljack)      Join Date: Feb 2006       11-21-2013, 2:20 PM Reply   
I looked on the Indmar site, they don't list which boat company is getting this engine first, is it a '14 model?
Anybody know where the Ford Raptor will first land?

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