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Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-31-2013, 5:42 PM Reply   
Woops
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-01-2013, 7:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
I am not speaking for J_bird, cause I don't know him.
Reading his post, he says "malibu just tried to copy skiers choice moomba line". I think he is trying to say that Malibu is copying in terms of producing a budget line boat under the same umbrella. I doubt he is saying they copied Moomba. If he is, I don't agree with him either, but I think he is just stating the fact that Malibu introduced a budget line (Axis) like Skiers Choice did (Moomba).
Up until the last couple years I more associated the axis competing with supra price and quality wise. Moomba's always seemed a lower quality to me, though I haven't been in their new models like the mojo
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-01-2013, 8:05 AM Reply   
CJH1669 , yeah I think that is a thing of the past. The newer models are nicely appointed. I really think the interiors in the Moomba's are light years above the Axis now. I would say the present day Axis interior is comparable to the 2005 era moomba interiors.... Again totally my opinion and we know Malibu builds a great boat in Axis and great wake. They do it on purpose to not compete with their own higher end brand..

disclaimer..... I don't own either
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-01-2013, 8:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
CJH1669 , yeah I think that is a thing of the past. The newer models are nicely appointed. I really think the interiors in the Moomba's are light years above the Axis now. I would say the present day Axis interior is comparable to the 2005 era moomba interiors.... Again totally my opinion and we know Malibu builds a great boat in Axis and great wake. They do it on purpose to not compete with their own higher end brand..

disclaimer..... I don't own either
Yeah I agree 100% on the current interior, though i can't make a statement on the current moombas. There isn't' a dealer around for at least 100 miles, so I don't see many. The one thing I always disliked about the moomba was it's really shallow cockpit.
The big thing I've always disliked about the axis was it's interior. Outside of that it's a great boat. Hard to beat price wise for it's performance. I think there are other boats that give you more bling for your buck at that price point, ie MB, moomba ect, but neither of those boats hold a candle to it wake wise.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-01-2013, 10:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewkettle View Post
Been on the Mojo and the Mb 52'
For a no hastle plug and play boat would be the Mb 52. Huge Comp Style surf wake that is incredible on both sides. also wake seemed solid as bodies played musical chairs. ,,Other boats seem to be picky as weight is moved around th boat. The Mb has a SUPER FAST balast fill.
On a long term investment and instant gratification on a hassle free push button wake balast system. My only choice would be the MB 52'

Moomba xlv boat owner
THis thread is great... and this post made me actually check someone's profile, which I almost never do, to see if MB was starting up again with their "lets infuse ourselves into every thread" game again. But it looks like Brewkettle is a legit WW'er and not a MB troll.

With that said, your post is almost completely full of hope and dreams. No hassle plug and play? MB? what boat are you in. Their plug n play requires a whole auxillary ballast system with pumps and switches. Stock ballast system is great, but you cannot pnp that one. MB's wake is pretty sensitive side to side compared to most boats, especially compared to Axis, since this is an Axis / Moomba thread. Have not been in the new moombas, but the old supras and moombas were very sensitive side to side, but the new SA is not... hopefully moomba's hull follows suit with Supra.

"no hassle plug n play" win goes to axis, and with Surfgate available on 2014's, there really is no comparison to the moomba and axis as far a wakeboard wake and surf wave adjustability (surfgate, wedge, full ballast system plug n play with 1" I.D. hoses and pumps).

Side note, got to ride the Liquid Force Bro-boat A24..... full ballast, 750's rear, pnp front under seat bow bags, and a sumo 800 floor sack. No wedge, 23.5, 78-80'.... incredible wake. Had the LS3 motor, 2419 prop, and it could have taken a lot more weight.
Old    Jeremy Lear (J__bird)      Join Date: Apr 2013       11-01-2013, 12:21 PM Reply   
^^^ right on the money digs.. wow it looks like we have a lot of axis fans out there. sad sad day
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-01-2013, 12:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by J__bird View Post
^^^ right on the money digs.. wow it looks like we have a lot of axis fans out there. sad sad day
it's the best wake by far out of all the price point boats, it isn't even close. In fact there are only a handful of boats out there, period, that have as good or a better wakeboard wake than the axis. They did a great job desiging the hull of that boat. May not have the interior of the other price point boats, but is by far a better a better wake machine.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       11-01-2013, 12:31 PM Reply   
Chris, have you rode behind an MB? Not saying you are wrong, just curious. I've not had the pleasure to get behind an Axis yet.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-01-2013, 12:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakecumberland View Post
Chris, have you rode behind an MB? Not saying you are wrong, just curious. I've not had the pleasure to get behind an Axis yet.
Oh yeah, B52. My friend that had a 2010 axis bought a 2012 MB. Wake wasn't even close. Really nice boat, but doesn't come close to the axis wakeboard wake. Didn't like either of their surf wakes, but I know if you put some bags in the MB it can throw a really good surf wake. Never ridden an A22 with surf gate so that might help it's surf wake. I've heard nothing but great things about the A24 wakebord and surf wake. MBs are probably the best for the money all around if you want nicer interior ect, but the axis is a much better wake machine.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-01-2013, 1:47 PM Reply   
Vinyl quality wise I think we are splitting hairs here. 13 for Axis had a much much higher quality than the previous years . The previous years though I would put well below any current day Moomba in its price range. Axis in past 2 years has really turned their interiors around quality wise with materials. I still think the new line of Moombas give you a bit more of refined look inside the boat with molded seat bases and little less plastic to fill in gaps. They also have some nice thought out rider extras. The Axis follows te Malibu line of interiors. Roomy , simple, comfortable. It also follows their 3 piece construction of seat bases.

What I don't like about the new LSV and what seems to have been said about someone who drove a Mondo is that the boat really lists and leans awkwardly when loaded up with weight. It's hard to describe. You initiate your turn around around and it starts flat , then somewhere mid turn it's like it hooks up on edge ( for lake of better term) and u get a quick little jar/ list over to the side. It catches you by surprise if you not used to it. I didn't like it at all. Sounds like it may have transferred to the Mondo as well. These new Moomba boats have really taken them to te next level. Quite honestly I really don't think there are budget/baseline boats anymore except maye an outback v or and LSV. They are al higher quality these days than some of the flagships just a few years ago. Wakes are better, room is more, and features along with comfort are priority.

Axis has come a long way IMO as well. Their first models up to 11 if you ask me were really bordering budget. Their foam, vinyl, and feel really were toward the bottom. Now ........I would stack them against anyone in performance and quality. When a boat of that caliber is even in discussions with top 3 boats, serious discussions it says a ton.

Either way this whole idea of budget/ crap boats like the days of old is no more. Everyone is making a quality product. It just comes down to how much bling and how many gadgets run by computers you want to pay for.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-01-2013 at 1:50 PM.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-01-2013, 2:03 PM Reply   
Swatguy is right about that.... Crazy that we even use the word "budget" "pricepoint" with these boats anymore. I remember when $30K was the "budget" "pricepoint" and that was not long ago. Now $60K is budget.... The average MSRP is now at the $100k mark. Nuts!!!!
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-01-2013, 5:48 PM Reply   
Right. 60 k now is budget. Crazy
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-01-2013, 8:04 PM Reply   
Isn't the newer moomba LSV on the same exact hull as the 2006- lsv? I could be wrong but isn't the Mondo on a completely different running surface more similar to the Mojo?

The hard thing about comparing the "quality" of 2 boats is that "quality" can mean different things to different people. For some it might be more about reliability(long lasting, can stand up to abuse, etc) while for others it might have to do with fit/finish or plushness/luxury.

Looking at the pictures of the 2 interiors side by side, I would say the moomba interior definitely looks nicer or more luxurious. Sitting in the boat would could obviously change some of this but the Moomba interior definitely looks fancier. That said there is no way I can say which one has the more reliable by looking at them in pictures for sure but it might also be hard to judge reliability, initially at least, sitting in the boats.

If you are comparing the same year moomba and axis I think the Moomba has always had a slightly nicer or more luxurious interior than the Axis but I don't think it is that much different. Again, I have no idea idea which has a higher quality interior from a long lasting/reliability though.

As for wake I got nothing. Never been in either. Hard to argue with the massive amounts of positive feedback on the Axis but the Moomba has only been out for a few months so we don't really have much if any feedback. I am sure either would be more than sufficient for 95% of potential buyers. For the wake/wave snobsI don't mean this in a bad way really) of wakeworld that may not be the case.

As for the MB I think it definitely has it's positives and negatives. I really like the 21' and 23' MBs for a lot of reasons like the deep V for rough water ride, wakeboard wake with minimul ballast and surf wave potential. I also like the ballast system and even though you can't do plug and play that isn't a big deal to me. there is very little difference in adding a plumbed in ballast system after then fact and a factory system. In both someone, at some point, had to drill holes in the hull, add pumps, switches, wiring and hoses. Hell, a custom designed and installed ballast system might be better than the factory. You can't really argue that it costs more to add bags to an MB but what the hell is $1500 when you have already dropped 65k? I really like the simple yet luxurious look of the boat. I also like the storage. The things I don't like about the MB though are the looks of the tower(Really like the swivel racks and how easy it is to lower with out it falling down), the shallow interior and I think the seats are uncomfotable. I am not a huge fan of the wavy look to the interior(hard to explain and most might not understand what I mean by this). For some the boat not being able to make a clean wake at low speeds is a negative as well.
Old    Adam Padgett (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       11-01-2013, 8:26 PM Reply   
Dealer here has two axis's. Both are around 68-69k. I could pick up a mondo for around 53-55. Mb for around 58-62.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-02-2013, 1:43 AM Reply   
The LSV is allegedly on the same hull, but with the new top deck and extended gunwales it drives and handles completely different. You get a ton of bow rise and propose with the newer LSV than the old from my experience of putting a 13 to test for a day. I had very high hopes but it didn't wow me like I thought it should seeing as how the older one was such a solid performer.
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-02-2013, 5:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Dealer here has two axis's. Both are around 68-69k. I could pick up a mondo for around 53-55. Mb for around 58-62.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is that price for the 2014 Axis A22? If so, I am sure that number is high and they can work with you on getting it closer to the MB price.

As for the quality of vinyl, I agree with xstar on this one. The quality of the '12 - '14's is much improved over the previous models. I would be scared to let my dogs on the boat in fear of the vinyl getting ripped in the previous model. My 2014 A22 vinyl has the feel of being very durable. Only time will tell if it is.
Old    Adam Padgett (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       11-02-2013, 5:23 AM Reply   
They are 2014's


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       11-02-2013, 7:35 AM Reply   
That price should be close if it's loaded with 330hp IMO
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-02-2013, 7:50 AM Reply   
^^^^but as you know Bryce it better be VERY loaded for that price.
Old    Jeremy Lear (J__bird)      Join Date: Apr 2013       11-02-2013, 9:13 AM Reply   
^^^ you nailed it diggs. sorry for the confusion chris. There's a lot of axis fans out there I see.. that's great! Either way if you pick a Moomba or Axis at least your still getting out on the water and having fun. which is the main reason for buying these boats. so good luck on your decision im sure you'll be happy with whatever boat model you pick!
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       11-02-2013, 9:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
^^^^but as you know Bryce it better be VERY loaded for that price.
Every option but the upgraded engine practically.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-02-2013, 12:18 PM Reply   
$69k for an A22? That's pretty damn high. Not exactly "price point" especially without the upgraded engine. At that price you are only about $10k away from an 23LSV.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-02-2013, 12:32 PM Reply   
Here are my numbers. 2014 Ordered way I want it. MSRP of course

Standard Engine
Auto set Wedge
Bolster seat
Ski pylon
Cleats
Bimini
GPS cruise upgrade
Chillax
Plug n play w/o bags
2 swivel racks
Ez fold tower upgrade
Heater
Stereo pack 1
Transom remote
Depth finder
Dual battery
Tower mirror
Surfgate
High torque 15 X 25 prop.

No cover. Standard gel combo. Standard carpet, no deck traction

White w blue metal flake accents.
Was at 67k MSRP. I should be able to hit 59-60k plus tax I hope when I start dealing. If you strip it out bare bones easily be right at 50-55k. With little dealing easily 50k as base price is 53,600
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-02-2013, 12:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
$69k for an A22? That's pretty damn high. Not exactly "price point" especially without the upgraded engine. At that price you are only about $10k away from an 23LSV.
I agree with the whole price point thing. I can't blame the manufacturer's for continuing to raise the price if that is where the market/buyers are but my god does it suck you can't even buy a new wakeboard boat for anywhere close to 40k. REmember when you could get a couple different Moomba models, a couple different Centurion models, sangers, calabria's, a Vride, etc.... for around 40kish?

When I was selling Mastercrafts in 2007 I thought I was completely ripping people off selling Xstars and X45's for 90k. Now that is about an average price for a 22' MAstercraft, supra, nautique, malibu, tige, etc... Hell, here in Seattle I saw a dealer selling a used/demo 2013 Malibu LSV for 109k on craigslist. WTH is going on?

I wish there was still a 21' vdrive you could pick up for around 40 grand with tandem trailer, triple ballast, PP and a tower. Then had the choice of what things to add like racks, stereo, added balllast, wakeplate, cover, bimini, etc...

Seems like the big manufacturer's that have a premium line and a budget line should be able to use use their old hulls and molds for their budget line so there is no R & D or mold cost associated with the value line. The budget line's shouldn't be cheaper just because they aren't as fancy but because they don't have a lot of the other costs that go into the price of the cutting edge luxury lines.

Last edited by polarbill; 11-02-2013 at 12:56 PM.
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-02-2013, 1:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Here are my numbers. 2014 Ordered way I want it. MSRP of course

Standard Engine
Auto set Wedge
Bolster seat
Ski pylon
Cleats
Bimini
GPS cruise upgrade
Chillax
Plug n play w/o bags
2 swivel racks
Ez fold tower upgrade
Heater
Stereo pack 1
Transom remote
Depth finder
Dual battery
Tower mirror
Surfgate
High torque 15 X 25 prop.

No cover. Standard gel combo. Standard carpet, no deck traction

White w blue metal flake accents.
Was at 67k MSRP. I should be able to hit 59-60k plus tax I hope when I start dealing. If you strip it out bare bones easily be right at 50-55k. With little dealing easily 50k as base price is 53,600
I think this post is spot on. Price may vary a little with trade-in and other options.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-02-2013, 4:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Here are my numbers. 2014 Ordered way I want it. MSRP of course

Standard Engine
Auto set Wedge
Bolster seat
Ski pylon
Cleats
Bimini
GPS cruise upgrade
Chillax
Plug n play w/o bags
2 swivel racks
Ez fold tower upgrade
Heater
Stereo pack 1
Transom remote
Depth finder
Dual battery
Tower mirror
Surfgate
High torque 15 X 25 prop.

No cover. Standard gel combo. Standard carpet, no deck traction

White w blue metal flake accents.
Was at 67k MSRP. I should be able to hit 59-60k plus tax I hope when I start dealing. If you strip it out bare bones easily be right at 50-55k. With little dealing easily 50k as base price is 53,600
Sounds good but I have 2 suggestions for you if I may:

1. Get the deck trac (unless you have a plan to add your own). I didnt order mine with it either because I like how it looks without, but my dealer put it on for me and I am so glad I did. All the flat surfaces are so slippery, bow is slippery, and gunwales. Theres a strip for transom protection that works well to protect your transom from wakeboards when on the swim step.

2. Go with no stereo option. Ask them to still cut the speaker holes for you, and they may pre-wire all the speakers for free as well (atleast they did for me). Then spend that money you saved and build a better system for cheaper.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-02-2013, 8:03 PM Reply   
John.


Planning on adding my own deck traction. I have a buddy who cuts some sweet stuff


I was told I couldn't go no stereo and have the cutouts and pre wiring. I will have to look into that more. I haven't finalized anything just yet. Keeping my eye out for another option of a used 220 or 210. The wife absolutely loves the drivers helm of the Nautiques. It seems to fit her perfectly. The 220 is on there because I can possibly find the old prop rotation as we all ride goofy. She spends about the same time behind the wheel as me if not more so that is a huge factor. I will say I find the Axis drivers seat about the most comfortable seat for me tho I have ever sat in. I am 6ft.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-02-2013 at 8:07 PM.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-02-2013, 9:30 PM Reply   
Glad to hear you are putting your own traction on, I have heard of multiple nasty falls on these boats without it.

Im not sure about the stereo thing... that may be true now. I didn't even ask for the wires to be ran, just the holes cut. I figured that it didn't cost anything for them to cut 6 holes out for me, just a few minutes of labor. The wires were ran and that was a surprise to me. I just figured since they already pre wire the tower for speakers even if you do not order them, then they must pre wire the boat too. That, or they just ran the wires because they saw that holes were cut and assumed a system was going in at the factory. As for being told you can't have the cutouts done for you, tell them that you are certain MB or Supra or anyone else would be happy to cut a few holes out for you and take your $55K+ from you.
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       12-11-2013, 10:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
"no hassle plug n play" win goes to axis, and with Surfgate available on 2014's, there really is no comparison to the moomba and axis as far a wakeboard wake and surf wave adjustability (surfgate, wedge, full ballast system plug n play with 1" I.D. hoses and pumps).
What about Moombas wakeplate? Having a variable hook helps with planing, turning, and wake shape. The wedge only makes manuevering more difficult and won't effect surf wave. And the Axis wedge is manual right?
Moomba uses ballast bags that are easily swapped out for larger ones. And Moomba uses Jabsco pumps as opposed to Axis aerator pumps.
With the Supra Swell launch, I can only assume Moomba will get a surf system soon. So many S's...

Also, does Malibu/Axis still have a 75lb weight limit on top of their rear hard tanks? Not sure if they changed that or not recently.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       12-11-2013, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideGull View Post
What about Moombas wakeplate? Having a variable hook helps with planing, turning, and wake shape. The wedge only makes manuevering more difficult and won't effect surf wave. And the Axis wedge is manual right?
Moomba uses ballast bags that are easily swapped out for larger ones. And Moomba uses Jabsco pumps as opposed to Axis aerator pumps.
With the Supra Swell launch, I can only assume Moomba will get a surf system soon. So many S's...

Also, does Malibu/Axis still have a 75lb weight limit on top of their rear hard tanks? Not sure if they changed that or not recently.
There is no weight limit on the plug n play lol. You can run 1100s on top of the plug n play, no problem (with the right prop). The aerator pumps are plenty fast and in the latest models, it's on 1" hose. No issues there.

A22 has no issues with planing or turning. Wakeshape is changed by deploying or not deploying the wedge. The wedge is manual, but the simplicity is nice and it takes 2 seconds to adjust.

I've not been behind a Moomba, but I would put my money on the A22. The wake for wakeboarding is PHENOMENAL. I've surfed an A24 with surfgate too, it's huge and has tons of push. The interior is great. Deckadence carpet with logo and border will jazz it up a bit if you're into that sort of thing. The 2013+ vinyl is also a huge improvement.
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       12-11-2013, 11:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
There is no weight limit on the plug n play lol. You can run 1100s on top of the plug n play, no problem (with the right prop). The aerator pumps are plenty fast and in the latest models, it's on 1" hose. No issues there.

A22 has no issues with planing or turning. Wakeshape is changed by deploying or not deploying the wedge. The wedge is manual, but the simplicity is nice and it takes 2 seconds to adjust.
I just remember a couple years back Malibu had a warning label saying to not put more than 75lb of weight on top of the hard tanks because it could crack/dent it. Wasn't sure if they had changed that or not. Not trying to start a debate over this, just curious if it has changed.

I was referring to planing/turning under heavy load, not just stock + PNP, but even more weight than that. Any boat that doesn't have a variable hook will be more sluggish than one with a device such as Wakeplate, NCRS, Attitude Adj.
That's what I don't like about the wedge. In my experience, the use of some "plate" works much much better than a foil pulling the hull down.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       12-11-2013, 11:38 AM Reply   
I'm not sure what has changed, but my experience is that 750s and 1100s are standard and no problem. Malibu probably put that there as a CYA.

I'm not sure what the difference might be with a wake plate. I agree it might help, but frankly, I'd rather have the wedge than the wake plate. It's a worthwhile tradeoff when it comes to shaping the wake. Personal preference.
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-12-2013, 3:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
I'm not sure what has changed, but my experience is that 750s and 1100s are standard and no problem. Malibu probably put that there as a CYA.

I'm not sure what the difference might be with a wake plate. I agree it might help, but frankly, I'd rather have the wedge than the wake plate. It's a worthwhile tradeoff when it comes to shaping the wake. Personal preference.
I agree. I have had both and I prefer the wedge over the wakeplate. I have had no issues with turning under load on my Axis. It turns like a champ.
Old    Danny D (axxxiswake)      Join Date: Jun 2013       12-12-2013, 7:39 AM Reply   
I'll sell OP my 2011 a22 for $45k

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