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Old     (mxscotty)      Join Date: Oct 2013       10-02-2013, 7:50 PM Reply   
Hey Guys,

My friend got a house on a lake last year and we started wakeboarding behing the jet boat that he bought. We thought that was great until we got a chance to ride behind a real wakeboard boat, a Supra, and he's been looking to upgrade to a wakeboard boat all summer. It's the end of the season and he's got it narrowed down to these 3 boats.

Boat #1:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...e-Te-102073134

We went and looked at this boat today. We took it out for a ride and he got to wakeboard behind it. The power was awesome on this boat! It was throwing out a big wake, but not as big as the Supra we have been getting to go out on. That's not much of a concern, we called "wakemakers" and they said they have an awesome plug and play setup for this boat for around $700 that works really well. He had some concerns about the "hybrid" feature that allows the boat to go from a ski boat to a wakeboard boat. We didn't know if that could detract form how well of a wakeboard boat it would be, because we are not interested in skiing. We did get the boat to make a cool wakesurfing wave interestingly enough by putting the boat in "ski" mode. We definitely will be trying surfing so that was a plus. The boat was really clean and well taken care of, it really did look brand new, there was not a scratch on it. In early talks it looks like he can get that boat for around $33,000.

Baot #2:

http://boats.iboats.com/ski-centurio...t/1398392.html

We are going to look at and drive this boat on Friday. Initial concerns were that this boat is bigger and has a smaller engine than the Nautique, so a little bit worried that it could be underpowered. The good thing researching this boat is that seems to be one of the favorites for surfing, so that's cool. It has similar features to the nautique, but research has gotten me to think that Correct Craft may make the better boat. The fit and finish on the Nautique was evideent for sure. The fact that this boat is 2 years newer is a plus though. We're really excited to go see this boat!! After talking to the guy through email and the phone this past week, he seems to think he can get this boat for around $28K, so there would be some saving there and the boat is newer.

Boat #3:

http://www.popyachts.com/view/29556

He almost bought this boat and had some second thoughts because there is just not much info out there on this. We've read up on the history of the boat, company, etc and it's just really hard to get a gauge on it. He'd have to hop on a plane to go see this one too, we live in NH and the boat is in Florida. He is really sold on this one, but the guy with the Supra is telling him not to get the "unknown" boat. This boat is considerably cheaper than the others, he can get this for $21,500 which definitely sounds alot better to him and his budget, but he would have to drop 1500 or so to get it up to NH so that brings it to around $23K. It seems as though most people who have not seen, driven, or rode behind the boat talk down about it, but people who own it or have wakeboarded behind it really like it. We really want to know if this boat is a total dog, or could it be real hidden gem at 5-10K less than the other 2 boats.

So that's where, we are at. Any suggestions, thoughts, help, thoughts on other possible boats, etc, would be SO appreciated. We are rookies to this sport but we caught the fever, and he is ready to pull the trigger on a boat!!

Thank You for reading my post, and I look forward to your thoughts.

PS- If there is anybody in the New Englad area who owns a Session, he would love to come see it, talk to you on the phone, email, etc. Thanks Again
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       10-02-2013, 8:32 PM Reply   
$33k for a 2005 nautique crossover i think is too much. i paid $41k last year for 2008 nautique super air 210 team edition. It is a year later so it is only worth like $35k. PS that is way too much yellow. are you a bumblebee?
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       10-02-2013, 8:55 PM Reply   
You are most Likley one of the only buyers in the market for these boats during this season. If it was me 23 footer ski centurion. What elevation do you run at. If you are 4000 plus may need a bigger engine. No way on the Sessions. You want to be able to surf and wakeboard on whatever boat you buy. Good luck.
Old    210 SANTE (Paxdad)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-03-2013, 7:07 AM Reply   
The buyers market is prime right now and will continue to remain this way as everyone sorts out their plans for spring 2014. Many Nautique owners are shuffling to get in line for the new G series or those swapping from 2013 to 2014 model years. $33 does not seem to far off the mark for the 05 SV but I would certainly look around and widen you area of search. Check out Planet Nautique, InBoardsOnly, for a few other classified options for boats on the market. One of the most depressed areas I have seen in way of pricing is the Maryland and PA areas on craigslist. No matter what brand you select the PCM EX343 motor is a really strong motor in boats up to the 23 foot range.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       10-03-2013, 7:12 AM Reply   
popyachts is a brokerage firm I believe, understand that dealing with them means the price of the boat is inflated to pay a hefty brokerage fee. The Sessions isn't built anymore so getting parts for them is tough and a very clean 05 SV211 on a trailer would sell all day here in FL for 33k.
Old    Ryan (rlwagens)      Join Date: Feb 2008       10-03-2013, 7:23 AM Reply   
If you're gonna go above 30k for a crossover then why not look into the 210s? The Excalibur will provide all the power you need, and I doubt you wanna go old school enough for a GT40 (02 and older). Planet Nautique has a lot of members putting up 03-05 for the same price or well below the 05 SV, and you're gonna get a solid wakeboard wake out of a boat that many times is sold by the original owner.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       10-03-2013, 8:29 AM Reply   
^^ good point
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       10-03-2013, 9:35 AM Reply   
I won't ever work with POP Yachts. I sent a slightly low but respectable offer on a boat who's ad had been recently updated which indicated to me that it was still for sale. Why would you update your ad if the boat was sold? The guy came back and bragged about how the boat had already sold for some ridiculously high price. I replied that if you have sold the boat, you need to remove your ad and that you shouldn't brag about ripping people off. The loser salesman got all bent out of shape. If he wasn't going to take it as constructive criticism then he should have ignored it. Instead he chose to start sending me nasty replies. I took the opportunity to get him even more riled up. He got even nastier. The sold boat's ad was still up months later. This operation is as sketchy as it gets. I don't know anything about a Regal but if POP Yachts is selling it for 21 then you can bet that it's only worth 15.
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       10-03-2013, 9:38 AM Reply   
Definitely take the advice about the 210 vs the 211. You'll be happy you did while riding behind it and even happier about it when it's time to sell it on.
Old     (mxscotty)      Join Date: Oct 2013       10-03-2013, 11:23 AM Reply   
What an awesome forum, thanks for all the replies!! Definitely some helpful Information already. I'm researching the 210s now. Does the Hybrid feature on these boats factor into the hull design, and does the fact that it can be a ski boat detract from it's ability to make a wake as good as other boats? He is not really "willing" to spend in the $30's, but we did look at that Correct Craft for 33. He would really like to keep it under $30 if possible. I know that one of his main preferences is that the boat be a V-drive.

Great info about the Maryland / Pennsylvania area!! We could drive down there and get the boat, so there is a big upside to that!!

I haven't heard much about the Session except to stay away from it. I wish there were more session owners who could add some first hand experience. If there isn't, well then I guess it's for a reason.

Thank You so much for your replies!!
Old    210 SANTE (Paxdad)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-03-2013, 12:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
$33k for a 2005 nautique crossover i think is too much. i paid $41k last year for 2008 nautique super air 210 team edition. It is a year later so it is only worth like $35k. PS that is way too much yellow. are you a bumblebee?
If you can find and 08 SANTE for $35K and respectable hours I would drive out of my way to buy it. I have not seen any on the market for less than $42K and the $41K you paid for yours a year ago was a steal.
Old    210 SANTE (Paxdad)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-03-2013, 12:46 PM Reply   
By the way the SANTE 210 is great for surf and wakeboard and can easily be fine tuned to pro-level wake status with (minimal) additional ballast over stock. It even free skis well with the wake plate all the way forward. The downside to a cross-over is that you will eventually find that you will either take to wakeboarding or surfing mainly and then suffer the disadvantages of the cross over aspects. Starting with a purpose built wake/ surf hull and then working back to skiing is much easier than going the other direction. There are slalom skis out now that are specific for riding behind a wakeboard boat and are a blast. The Radar Satori one such ski that is made specifically for riding behind a wake/ surf boat.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-03-2013, 1:15 PM Reply   
Sessions were well built but quite heavy. Most people that had them were not as satisfied with how they came out of the hole as they would have liked. There should be no real problem with the Session except that it should be less than you would buy a different small manufacturers 2005 boat for so it is probably still over priced. Regal make excellent boats but they quit making Session after a very short run.
Old    Peter L (Indyxc)      Join Date: Jul 2011       10-03-2013, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottb7 View Post
$33k for a 2005 nautique crossover i think is too much. i paid $41k last year for 2008 nautique super air 210 team edition. It is a year later so it is only worth like $35k. PS that is way too much yellow. are you a bumblebee?

Show us where you can buy a 08 210 for 41k with respectable hours, let alone for 35k.
Old    Nailem (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       10-03-2013, 5:30 PM Reply   
I have an 05' enzo. It will put out the best surf wave out of those three by a huge margin. I run 1850lbs of ballast plus crew and last week end we had 2300lbs of ballast plus 600lbs in crew. My 330hp black scorpion had now problem and I still have the factory ski prop. We do not wakeboard much but it those a big enough wake for us. Switching props this winter will make it even easier.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by nailem; 10-03-2013 at 5:35 PM.
Old     (mxscotty)      Join Date: Oct 2013       10-04-2013, 3:59 PM Reply   
Hey Guys, Thanks again for the replies. We went and saw/drove the Enzo today. It was really amazing. It was a little bit neglected, there were lots of little details and cosmetic things wrong with it, but nothing real major. It was nowhere as clean as the Correct Craft we saw, but man, it was a way cooler boat. This boat was much bigger and made a nicer, bigger wake with the ballasts completely empty, than the Correct Craft did with full ballasts. It was night and day. Really cool boat.
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-05-2013, 8:30 PM Reply   
How about this 2008 SANTE for $24k?
http://www.carsforsale.com/used_cars...ique_210547556
Old    Rex Lex (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-05-2013, 10:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyxc View Post
Show us where you can buy a 08 210 for 41k with respectable hours, let alone for 35k.
How about for $24k http://www.picksboats.net/2008_Corre..._210547556.veh
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-06-2013, 4:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexlex01 View Post
Is that real?
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-06-2013, 5:53 PM Reply   
I doubt it!! If so thats beyond a smoking deal!!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-06-2013, 6:16 PM Reply   
You have plenty of time to find the right boat for the right price. I would pump the breaks and do some more research and really think about how you want to use the boat before making a decision. Personally I wouldn't pick SAN210(pre 2006) if I was in your position. They are very well built boat but seeing as how you guys are beginners it will be a while before you ever take advantage of that wake. It is also super steep and some people don't even like it. Another thing about those era SAN's, they are basically good at wakeboarding and that is it. They don't surf well, they don't ski well, they don't ride well in rough water, they have little storage, they don't have much room overall, etc........

Again, slow down, figure out how you are realistically going to use the boat and do some research. You have till February or march till prices start going back up because the season is coming.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-06-2013, 11:48 PM Reply   
Brett, I disagree with almost everything you've said except the research part.
Old    Todd Shelley (MrShelley)      Join Date: Apr 2012       10-07-2013, 5:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexlex01 View Post
I'll be calling them as soon as they open!

If this is real I'm making a drive to North Dakota TODAY!
Old     (mxscotty)      Join Date: Oct 2013       10-07-2013, 12:07 PM Reply   
Thank You Brett, I actually agree with you!! My friend who is buying the boat is really itchy to pull the trigger, and I find myself being the voice of reason quite often. That's why I'm trying to do so much research for him.

That 2008 seems too good to be true. I showed him the link.

He went to a boat show yesterday and there was a guy there talking to him about a used 2012 Axis A20. The guy quoted him $36K and now he is all about that boat. I think going newer will be his best bet and this Axis seems like an awesome boat. He's going to look at it soon.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       10-07-2013, 12:16 PM Reply   
Brett is right about the steep wake on the 210 (bow weight can minimize that), I disagree on the surfing side of things though. This pictures is not well lit, but you can see the wave is long and waist high, and pretty clean considering were going through chop in this pic
Attached Images
 
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       10-07-2013, 12:20 PM Reply   
One more. These are out of my phone and it was a bit choppy/windy that day, but you can see the potential (99 SAN210)
Attached Images
 
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-07-2013, 1:22 PM Reply   
That picks boats is got to be a scam. They have like 10 tow boats advertised. They are all 10K or more under fair pricing. Plus i have been to that town when I was stationed up in Minot. There isn't 10 boats like that in that part of the state more less all for sale at one place.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-07-2013, 4:47 PM Reply   
Without question I would get the Enzo. Then again I'm more focused on surfing than anything else.
The color scheme is also schweet!
Old     (mxscotty)      Join Date: Oct 2013       10-10-2013, 7:25 PM Reply   
well, he ended up buying the Regal Session. He really did get a great deal where the boat is relatively unknown. He got it for 20,500. The boat is very clean and well taken care of. Can't wait to get out on it. Thanks for all your help guys
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-10-2013, 10:13 PM Reply   
Post some pics! Congrats!
Old    Jesse (NotSure123)      Join Date: Nov 2012       10-11-2013, 10:43 AM Reply   
Congratulations! I've got an 05' Session, had it for almost 3 years and it's been absolutely great to me so far. I can assure he won't have any regets, especially at that price! I've gotten pretty familiar with mine so let me know if you/he have any questions...
Old    Jesse (NotSure123)      Join Date: Nov 2012       10-11-2013, 10:54 AM Reply   
O ya...if it hasn't already been done the first upgrade I would look into is a new prop...the stock 14x16 OJ is OK for normal boarding/running around but not so much if you guys start adding weight or carring alot of ppl around. (I went with an ACME 1847 and it was a night and day difference...)
Old    Nick Brady (02s2knick)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-12-2013, 6:34 AM Reply   
If you decide to look at a 230 sante and can't decide between the ex340 or the zr6 390hp engines both engines perform well with extra weight. My friends 2011 230 with the ex340 engine comes out of the hole fine with weight, but I believe his fuel consumption is greater with weight compared to my 07 236/230 sante with the zr6. When I was looking for boats engine size wasn't a concern of mine but didn't mind having the bigger engine.

If your wanting a awesome wake boat and surf boat but not wanting to shell a lot of cash out. Look for a 07 236 air nautique. The 236 is the first year of the 230, the factory ballast is the same as the new 230s. Every aspect of the 236 is the same except for tower, no touch screen gauges, and a higher pitched prop to pull skiers.
Old    Nailem (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       10-12-2013, 6:48 AM Reply   
Nick, I'd like to know how you are weighting the 07' 236. My buddy just got one this summer and we have not been able to dial it in. Actually it sucks. He has stock rear tank with 1100 on top, in front of that a 300 under the bench. We have tried with the belly full to empty and starboard full to empty. The best we could come up with is the factory rear locker with 1100 on top, the 300 under the bench, 500 on top of the bench seat. Belly 3/4 full and starboard 1/2. Tried every speed from 10.5-12 and 11.5 was the best but still sucked. Lots of spray and just not that fun to ride. He also has the 390hp motor but had to switch props because he could get up to 10.5 with the 1600lb.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       10-12-2013, 8:44 AM Reply   
I would try again, but skip the belly and starboard. just put all the weight on one side. And slow down to like 9.5.

i have the 210, so maybe different, but those are my suggestions. i run 1100 port, 600 under love seat (see, pic), empty belly. it is awesome. we go like 9.3, 9.5. speed up from that for longer, less height.
Attached Images
 
Old    Nailem (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       10-12-2013, 9:06 AM Reply   
Will give it a try but seems like 10.5 seemed slow. Wave was super steep with no length that's why we tried filling the belly. This made it slightly better so then we increased speed which again made it less steep and longer but still was just not fun to ride.
Old    Nick Brady (02s2knick)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-12-2013, 6:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nailem View Post
Nick, I'd like to know how you are weighting the 07' 236. My buddy just got one this summer and we have not been able to dial it in. Actually it sucks. He has stock rear tank with 1100 on top, in front of that a 300 under the bench. We have tried with the belly full to empty and starboard full to empty. The best we could come up with is the factory rear locker with 1100 on top, the 300 under the bench, 500 on top of the bench seat. Belly 3/4 full and starboard 1/2. Tried every speed from 10.5-12 and 11.5 was the best but still sucked. Lots of spray and just not that fun to ride. He also has the 390hp motor but had to switch props because he could get up to 10.5 with the 1600lb.
When we surf we would fill my 600 on top of factory starboard tank, remove the grate where the cooler is and position a 450 sac in the floor with half of it in the coolers location. Then fill belly tank 1/4 to 1/2. Also hydro gate lever pulled all the way back and cruise at 10.5
We surf starboard because the wave is bigger with less weight on starboard than port.

If we don't have enough people weight we lay another 450 on top of the other 450/floor
Old    Nick Brady (02s2knick)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-12-2013, 6:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nailem View Post
Will give it a try but seems like 10.5 seemed slow. Wave was super steep with no length that's why we tried filling the belly. This made it slightly better so then we increased speed which again made it less steep and longer but still was just not fun to ride.
If your having issuings with wake cleaning up you need more bow/ belly weight. When we surf with a lot of people and 600 on top of factory and one 450 in the floor/cooler ill add belly fully. I also have an arrow sac plumed in to belly over flow and the arrow sac's over flow is plumed into a v sac under bow seating. And will fill arrow sac full with v sac full. If pockets is to big with no push ill empty on the fly until it gets there

Best wave I've ever had was 450 in floor/cooler. 3 people in back corner seating, 1 setting on transom cooler, belly full arrow sack full in ski locker; and v sac 1/2 full.
Old    Nailem (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       10-12-2013, 6:44 PM Reply   
I could see that starboard could be better than port. He gets so much spray/wash when we surf port. No one in our crew surfs goofy.
Old    Nick Brady (02s2knick)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-13-2013, 6:39 AM Reply   
But I can get my surf wave to be clean and big on port just takes a little extra weight

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