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Old    David C (dccd45)      Join Date: May 2012       10-01-2013, 1:15 PM Reply   
Is anyone else effected by the government shut down. Here in Vegas Lake Mead is a national park so no riding for us until these screwballs agree on something. It's a bummer since this is one of the nicest times of the year to be on the water with little to no winds.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-01-2013, 1:57 PM Reply   
I feel ya. And just think when you can't ride locally the economic impact. they loose out on the $20 launch fee. Your not buying food for the day & Gas. Its small but it adds up. They were saying Yosemite National Park here in California generates 4 Million dollars a year for the state. But yet its shut down today. So a division of the government that actually makes money is shut down BUT departments like congress that cost us thousands and got us in this mess are open for business.

On one hand It makes sense. I cant stay in business if I spend more then I take in So why should government.
Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-01-2013, 2:04 PM Reply   
David- You don't have a ramp on Lake Mead not controled by the government?
Old    Zach Sullivan (riding23)      Join Date: May 2009       10-01-2013, 2:16 PM Reply   
David I hear ya, I was looking to get out this weekend! My question is, who is going to be there to stop us from riding if gov't employees are not working??

I paid for a yearly pass and the gives me access to the lake, if that access is denied shouldn't I be rewarded a refund??
Old    David C (dccd45)      Join Date: May 2012       10-01-2013, 3:44 PM Reply   
Nope no access at all. All ramps are within the park and I was told that all entrance fee stations will be barricaded. They gave anyone camping or lodging within the park 48 hours to get out. I thought there was no fee station if you went through Overton so maybe going that route you could still launch out of echo bay. They also said all rangers would still be patrolling so I'm sure they would stop that.
Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-01-2013, 3:50 PM Reply   
Sounds like Washington politicians are trying to make an impact. Rangers are working to keep you out instead of just letting you in.

They did the same thing today at a free access monument in Washington. They put barricades around it to keep tourists away and then posted extra employees-more than when it is open- to keep people out.
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       10-01-2013, 3:50 PM Reply   
Not riding this weekend but I'm headed to Moab for some mountain biking and jeeping. No Arches National Park for me though. I've seen it a million times but my brother in law is coming with and he hasn't been there before. I guess we'll have to settle for Corona Arch.
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       10-01-2013, 4:00 PM Reply   
and lot's of businesses run in the red G. Look at Applebee's. The gov isn't allowed to make money. Examples: The post office used to be a profit center but they found a way to fix that by refusing to raise the price of stamps and providing that ridiculous requirement for 70 years of retirement benefits. Then there's Fannie and Freddie. They were trouble during the housing crash but they've been making huge money over the past few years. The big banks that we bailed out are getting all kinds of bent because Fannie and Freddie are earning money that they feel entitled to. The same people that say the government should be run like a business are the same ones that get pissed when the government runs like a business. Hopefully the jokers in congress can get it together before any un-repairable damage Is done. Sorry about your riding spots getting shut down.
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       10-01-2013, 4:25 PM Reply   
Nothing changing here in texas.... Is there a government shut down?
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-01-2013, 7:06 PM Reply   
Nope, I guess we don't even need the federal government, doesn't bother me, and why do we need the Post office? just a big jobs program I guess.
Old    Dan Lee (dan_lee)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-02-2013, 2:04 PM Reply   
Vegas guys- The park is shut down. We have customers getting stopped by the Ranger saying they need to head in and get off the lake. All of Lake Mead down to Laughlin is part of the Federal park.

We decided to still enjoy our hobby this weekend. Since we can't go on the lake, we're going to pull boats on trailers up and down Las Vegas Blvd Sunday. It happens to be a legal roadway that happens to still be open to the public and perhaps it will send a message if 100 boats are trailered up one of the busiest roads in America.

Let me know if you want details of when and where we will be "driving around looking for a place to use our boats."

Dan@boulderboats.com
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       10-02-2013, 2:10 PM Reply   
I guess that UPS and FedEx must be jobs programs too. We all know there's no money in delivering documents and packages. Just ask DHL how they have generously provided jobs to people at the expense of the company's owner. That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen typed in my life.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-02-2013, 2:21 PM Reply   
I'm currently vacationing in NC close to the Smokey Mountains National Park. Yesterday they told all the campers they had till 6pm to get out. We can't even drive through the park. Completely shut down. There are people who came from all over the world to see our National Parks and our dips**t politicians can't get their crap together. Vote out incumbents.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-02-2013, 4:11 PM Reply   
My question is, how is it a shutdown if they're still paying the rangers to stay and keep people out? The government at that point is still running, just pissing off citizens.
Old    Justin (jerasu98)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-02-2013, 6:19 PM Reply   
The federal employees that are still working aren't getting paid until they fix this mess. Then they get the back pay for what they worked when it goes back to normal. Hopefully their banks and creditors are understanding until they get paid again. Also their sick leave and vacation has been cancelled during this time. My friend who is still working bought tickets from San Diego to Boston for next week. The government told him he can't go due to shutdown. Has to eat the tickets unless they solve this soon.
Old    David C (dccd45)      Join Date: May 2012       10-02-2013, 7:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_lee View Post
Vegas guys- The park is shut down. We have customers getting stopped by the Ranger saying they need to head in and get off the lake. All of Lake Mead down to Laughlin is part of the Federal park.

We decided to still enjoy our hobby this weekend. Since we can't go on the lake, we're going to pull boats on trailers up and down Las Vegas Blvd Sunday. It happens to be a legal roadway that happens to still be open to the public and perhaps it will send a message if 100 boats are trailered up one of the busiest roads in America.

Let me know if you want details of when and where we will be "driving around looking for a place to use our boats."

Dan@boulderboats.com
I wouldn't mind riding a set in front of the bellagio!! I like the new boat Dan, seen it pull at WTW, the "horn" on this one is not as cool though.
Old    Eric (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       10-02-2013, 9:40 PM Reply   
You guys have a launch fee!? Yikes.... Never even heard of that.
Old    Randy Murray (wakeripper)      Join Date: Oct 2002       10-02-2013, 10:42 PM Reply   
yep totally effecting my riding. Ive had a big weekend where some friends are flying into town and we were supposed to go camping out at Lake Mead....looks like i'll be spending my money elsewhere.

On a side note i am going to try and roll "Muscles" down Las Vegas Blvd on our way home from the water on Sunday....
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-03-2013, 2:46 PM Reply   
"The federal employees that are still working aren't getting paid until they fix this mess."

This isn't true. It would be considered volunteering if they are not getting paid and that is expressly prohibited in the Antideficiency Act
Old    Dan Lee (dan_lee)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-03-2013, 3:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dccd45 View Post
I wouldn't mind riding a set in front of the bellagio!! I like the new boat Dan, seen it pull at WTW, the "horn" on this one is not as cool though.
LOL, yup, no hornblasters on this one.

In the interest of this thread...
Attached Images
 
Old    Joshua Creasman (tnvolgrad)      Join Date: Dec 2010       10-03-2013, 7:35 PM Reply   
Thank Harry Reid - he and Pelosi are the retards that shut your lakes down.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-04-2013, 11:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnvolgrad View Post
Thank Harry Reid - he and Pelosi are the retards that shut your lakes down.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
huh?
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-04-2013, 12:08 PM Reply   
This is true Josh.
3/4 of the US doesn't want Obamacare, yet they refuse to repeal it, and want to fund it by raising taxes on everyone. It's the lynch pin in the budget disagreements. They disapprove tax payer funding for the program that the tax payers don't want and the rest of the budget is approved, government goes back to work. Those two are two of the biggest proponents that wanted the shutdown because they won't budge on it.
Not to mention it is unconstitutional to force citizens to buy any product or penalize them if they choose not to, which is exactly what Obamacare does.
It's like the mafia "protection" racket.
Old    plhorn (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-04-2013, 4:31 PM Reply   
Josh, that is the most ignorant thing said on Wakeworld and that is saying a lot.

Regardless of how you feel about Obamacare, it has passed into law. What they are supposed to be doing now is setting up a budget not trying to pass laws.

This would be akin to saying we not approving a budget until Abortion is illegal, everyone has a gun in their homes, and the tax rate is 5%.

Those might be your goals but they have no place in the budget talks.

It is LAW, deal with it!! If you want to change that law, then you need to use the Change the law process not try to blackmail your way into it by holding the government hostage.

If congress was allowed to vote today a temporary budget would pass, the only person that is keeping that vote from happening is John A. Boehner. He has the authority to put the temporary budget to a vote and keep things running.

He doesn't have to thought because the way his district if jerrymandered he has such a crazy republican base that there is no way he can lose an election.

To blame anyone else is simply factually false.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-04-2013, 10:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverRider View Post
I guess that UPS and FedEx must be jobs programs too. We all know there's no money in delivering documents and packages. Just ask DHL how they have generously provided jobs to people at the expense of the company's owner. That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen typed in my life.
That's got to be the most asinine statement I have ever seen typed in my life! Don't you know the post office loses money? Do fed ex and Dahl lose money every year? Fed ex and Dahl are not jobs programs the post office is!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       10-05-2013, 6:29 AM Reply   
^The USPS is constitutionally mandated.
,
Surf addict, Obamacare was ruled Constitutional last summer by the SC. You may not agree with the ruling, and if there is a majority of justice conservatives the ruling may be reversed, but until then, it is the law of the land.
Old    Jason Petty (jpetty3023)      Join Date: Jun 2011       10-05-2013, 1:59 PM Reply   
this is what we got in TX



Sent from my iP5s on an app called tapatalk 2
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-05-2013, 3:20 PM Reply   
You can stop blaming Obama for the "Shutdown". It's been renamed to "Slimdown" and the GOP are taking credit.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-05-2013, 3:53 PM Reply   
Currently, we are the world reserve in money. What this means is that other countries have to exchange their money into dollars to buy things worldwide. For example, if Germany wants to buy oil in the Middle East, it changes its currency into dollars to buy the oil. As a result, we are able to print money as fast as we want without backing it with gold, but what happens if the rest of the world decides to make another currency the world reserve? We have nothing backing the dollar then and it becomes worthless. This year, China has signed deals with 8 or 10 other nations to begin dealing in another currency other than the dollar. IMHO, this weak dollar policy—in combination with reckless spending and no accountable--is destructive and could have devastating results if something is done, but the Shutdown will have to end soon because no one wants to default.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-05-2013, 4:20 PM Reply   
Right on target with that Ron T.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-07-2013, 9:11 AM Reply   
Playing politics with peoples lives because something was voted on, passed and is now the law of the land is despicable. Fund the damn thing and try and overturn it later, or wait and see if the results are as devastating as they think. Then it will be Obamas fault and they can finger point.
Old    Steven Pederson (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       10-07-2013, 9:37 AM Reply   
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-07-2013, 9:49 AM Reply   
Seems that a dose of reality has appeared here. I completely agree with Ron and Paul. The will of the people through elections is the method for changing law. Protests are for the citizens, not Congress.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-07-2013, 2:49 PM Reply   
Ocean is closed! lol

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/8448...-due-shutdown/
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-07-2013, 3:45 PM Reply   
Well... 0.0025% of it. But why quibble over such small differences.
Old    Nikolas Dramountanis (Greeko)      Join Date: May 2013       10-07-2013, 4:44 PM Reply   
Sad..all the parks in Canada are still open
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-07-2013, 4:58 PM Reply   
None of it will matter anyway, according to the congressman from the great state of MN:

“This happened and as of today the United States is willingly, knowingly, intentionally sending arms to terrorists, now what this says to me, I’m a believer in Jesus Christ, as I look at the End Times scripture, this says to me that the leaf is on the fig tree and we are to understand the signs of the times, which is your ministry, we are to understand where we are in God’s end times history," Michelle Bachmann told Jan Markell, radio host of "Understanding the Times," on Saturday.

“Rather than seeing this as a negative, we need to rejoice, Maranatha Come Lord Jesus, His day is at hand...And so when we see up is down and right is called wrong, when this is happening, we were told this; that these days would be as the days of Noah. We are seeing that in our time. Yes it gives us fear in some respects because we want the retirement that our parents enjoyed. Well they will, if they know Jesus Christ.”
Old    Nikolas Dramountanis (Greeko)      Join Date: May 2013       10-07-2013, 5:31 PM Reply   
hmmm... So I take it you're a believer of the Muslim Faith?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-08-2013, 8:38 AM Reply   
Faith in fabric? Oh wait that's muslin. My sister, a Pentecostal would flip out when I criticized Bush over his idiotic escapades in the ME back when he was President. She told me I needed to read Revelations to understand what was going on. Apparently she was cheering for the end of the world so she could be with Jesus.
Old    plhorn (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-08-2013, 11:56 AM Reply   
So, Imagine that the company you work for held a poll, and asked everyone if they thought it would be a good idea to put a soda machine in the break room. The poll came back, and the majority of your colleagues said “Yes”, indicating that they would like a soda machine. Some said no, but the majority said yes. So, a week later, there’s a soda machine.

Now imagine that Bill in accounting voted against the soda machine. He has a strong hatred for caffeinated soft drinks, thinks they are bad you you, whatever. He campaigns throughout the office to get the machine removed. Well, management decides “OK, we’ll ask again” and again, the majority of people say “Yes, lets keep the soda machine.”

Bill continues to campaign, and management continues to ask the employees, and every time, the answer is in favor of the soda machine. This happens, lets say… 35 times. Eventually, Bill says “OK, I’M NOT PROCESSING PAYROLL ANYMORE UNTIL THE SODA MACHINE IS REMOVED”, so nobody will get paid unless management removes the machine.

What should we do???

Answer: Fire Bill and get someone who will do the ****ing job.

Bonus: Bill tells everyone that he was willing to “Negotiate”, to come to a solution where everyone got their payroll checks, but only so long as that negotiation capitulated to his demand to remove the soda machine.

Bill is a ****ing jackass.

-Brian Krewson via themetricruler
Old    Dan Lee (dan_lee)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-08-2013, 12:16 PM Reply   
Or Bill in accounting realized that purchasing the soda machine just isn't feasible for the company's budget. He is speaking up at a time when the company isn't in a position to make purchases. More importantly, once they install this machine everyone is forced to drink soda, no one knows what it will cost and the soda supplier has no idea what it will cost them to produce their product.

This Bill in accounting story drives me bananas.

What is happening is several employees are sent home until this is solved. They don't have to work, but once they sort this out, they will all receive back pay for the time that they didn't have to work until the company figured out how to afford to purchase this soda machine.

Don't get me started on the obamacare side of things. What if my wife decided that we should buy a new big screen TV to watch football on Sunday. On Thursday I show up for work and am told that my company is broke and to keep my job I need to take a reduction in pay. Do you think I may cancel my trip to Costco on Saturday to purchase a new 60" 3-D TV if it's not on the budget?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-08-2013, 12:31 PM Reply   
Back pay must be approved by the same guys that put them out of work. The bottom line... The people elected the top leader who spearheaded the creation of the ACA. The opposition campaigned on the stump that his first day in office would result in an order to rescind the ACA. Then the people ratified the position of the top leader again and rejected the opponent.

Now the opponents cronies in the House want to destroy the credibility of the country and the dollar to undo the will of the people. Because they think they know better than us who should lead.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-08-2013, 12:51 PM Reply   
Bill should be fired and the company disbanded. They are all jackasses.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-09-2013, 11:45 AM Reply   
http://www.theonion.com/articles/con...udget-c,34151/
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-11-2013, 8:40 AM Reply   
GRRRRRRRRR - This is so F'ing ridiculous. I am so sick of our government going after the hard working people. It feels like f'ing Robin Hood - Taking from the hard working and giving to those that do not produce. This will put a large number of people that currently working $8-10/hour jobs on unemployment as it makes more sense than spending money on medical insurance. Hard to believe with all of our issues as a country, this is the focus. How 'bout losing business to other countries every day, homelessness, spending zillions of dollars on a war we can't win, oil, deficit, etc..... Makes me want to close my business and let my 25+ employees go on unemployment. After all. I have have been paying taxes for over 30 years and paid my own medical for most of those - Maybe I should just live off the system and wakeboard everyday? Grrrrrr
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       10-11-2013, 9:16 AM Reply   
If you truly had 25+ employees Jason, then you would know that the law doesn't affect you until you have 50. I suspect that you don't have any employees at all because if you did, you would be paying more attention to the law. If you do have employees and are just not paying attention, then relax. You can continue to pay your employees pathetically low wages of 8-10 per hour while simultaneously not paying any of their health insurance. Your position as the only one at your company that makes enough money to wake board will still be secured. Unless of course you shoot yourself in the foot by closing your business and living off the system. I suspect there will be a wake up call when you find out that you can't even afford to put gas in a boat ... much less, pay insurance or maintenance assuming you own your boat outright. You don't need to hit poor people in the face to encourage them not to be poor. It already just sucks to be poor. Even in the USA.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-11-2013, 10:09 AM Reply   
Note only that, but now his employees can actually afford HI. Why do you hate your employees Jason. Even to the point of calling them "non-producers".

You wouldn't lose your business to other countries if you asked your politicians to not allow foreign products in this nation from countries that have lower standards of pay, environmental protection, employee safety standards, legal, and health and welfare without tarriffing them to balance the inherent production costs you face from regulation. But like most people you probably enjoy buying things at the lowest price without regard to the fact that is exporting our economy and eliminating jobs for people with lessor skills and education.

Or.... you could adopt the opposite approach and claim that global trade is good and the US dollar is strengthened by it. The downside is we have to keep printing and borrowing money to keep the show from crashing to a screeching halt. You cannot have a net loss of up to maybe a trillion dollars a year from your economy and expect to not have to replace it somehow. So printing and borrowing bad, but printing and borrowing is good. Just flip the coin and pick one.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-11-2013, 10:33 AM Reply   
I'm on your side Jason
regardless of what this administration says, my business, I built it.
I took all of the risk, so I should get to determine where profits (if any) go.

you won't gain much ground here. There are those that still think Obuma is the answer.

I for one am glad that part of congress is stopping the Dems from doing whatever it is that they want to do.

I also find it funny that people in the comment sections after a news piece say...it's the law, fund it.
If our laws were actually followed, we wouldn't have an immigration problem......

hope that this thing drags out until Obama realizes that this particular mixture of congress was voted in for a reason. Even if their points are not his points, they are apparently the views of those that voted them in.....
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-11-2013, 11:03 AM Reply   
You do realize that Obama was voted by in after the ACA was passed and the repeal was a cornerstone of Romney's stump speech. When you say...

"until Obama realizes that this particular mixture of congress was voted in for a reason."

You do realize that the GOP lost the majority vote and seats in the House last election, even though they held on to the majority in the House.

I think Obama knows where the mix of Congress is going. Especially if the GOP tanks the economy. The GOP has no hand. They either give up or the GOP won't even be able to remember what the House looks like after Nov 2014.

More likely they are just tanking the market a bit to short some stocks and buy in at the bottom, which of course they will know because they decide to announce when they are ready to cave, and the market will recover. But that history because they've already caved and the market has already responded.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-11-2013, 11:16 AM Reply   
I hear ya on all of that. I think the republican voters are tired of the soft stance with this administration. If they cave, they will be replaced.
You and I both know that they will eventually cave. I'm just saying that I don't agree. Stand your ground, and let the election play out. The media and Obamas brilliant campaigning abilities are going to spin any and everything towards the dems anyway.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-11-2013, 11:32 AM Reply   
You and I have a different definition of "soft stance". If they don't cave they will be replaced by Democrats. If they do it might be just soon enough for America's short memory to give them another shot at the House next year. IMO the right ideology that represents this obstinacy in the House has seen it's best days.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-11-2013, 3:38 PM Reply   
They all need to go.
Old    Walt (Walt)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-12-2013, 12:27 AM Reply   
The two closest lakes to me are both closed. The Delta it is tomorrow.
Old    Jay Simmo (JayManAR)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-12-2013, 8:16 AM Reply   
All of our main ramps have been closed. Luckily there is a public access and a private ramp owned by one of the local marinas that is not maintained by the US Corps of Engineers.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-13-2013, 12:29 PM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jd-iaYLO1A

scumbags

Last edited by pesos; 10-13-2013 at 12:30 PM. Reason: youtube embed code doesn't work anymore?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-13-2013, 1:09 PM Reply   
Can we fire them all?
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-14-2013, 12:16 AM Reply   
wes, if you are referring to the repubs,thats funny!
the dems are masters of avoiding following the rules.....
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-14-2013, 6:09 AM Reply   
There are no rules in politics. Just Liars,Cheaters,Tramps and Thieves. In both parties for sure.None of our government leaders have any morals or concern for the well being of their citizens.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-14-2013, 10:07 AM Reply   
Cliff, I'm referring to the particular group of domestic terrorists that are holding the republican party hostage, and now doing the same to the entire country. The same delusional folks that are doing their best to destroy education in America are now doing what they can to tank the economy. Unreal.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-14-2013, 5:59 PM Reply   
Eric/John - You misinterpreted. My employees are not the non-producers. I do in fact have 25+ employees and been in business almost 20 years on my own dime. I have sacrificed and risked everything every day. I love my employees and I must not be terrible because most of them have been here 10-20 years. I wish I could afford insurance for all of them and their families, but we just can't. The job pays what the job pays. Some guys make $10 and other make $50/hr - depends on many things. Also I fully get the law bro about the less than 50. Here is the thing , the law requires them to have it, not for me to pay for it. When they don't have it they will be fined, when they can't pay for it, I will be forced to take it out of there checks. BS. Luckily for you Eric, I have heard guys like you my whole life, so you have no impact on how I run my life, my business, my employees or my boat. If I was such a bad guy, I would not have double digit yearly sales increases, kept long term employees or continue to hire year round. What about making affordable health care to help business's like mine to be able to give our employees health insurance. I currently spend $56K a year on Kaiser health insurance for my family, my managers, and a few long term guys. Thats with them barely using it. I would have no problem spending that and covering every employe with a basic plan. If the plan in fact ends up affordable, I will go out and get them all insurance.

I am down with firing all them suckas. I am also down with a revolution - that is what helped to make the biggest changes in our country. I think we are at that point.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2013, 9:05 AM Reply   
Jason, all we know is how you represent yourself here. Your employees are now offered the opportunity to insure themselves and their families with assistance from the govt to help them pay their premiums and a guarantee that they won't be denied coverage because a family member has a health history. On the flip side the fine is very small. The benefit of being able to afford insurance far outweighs the fine.

You say your are down with a revolution, but are fighting for the status quo. I.E. hiring and paying so little that the people who work for you are unable to get health coverage. I hardly picture you as a revolutionary.

So what do you suggest to make HC affordable, because I am totally down with that, and have opinions on what will do it. But I'm not hearing it from anyone else. Nor do I expect to because it's too painful. In the meantime I am down with the ACA because it's the first move that has forced us to stare down the face of an expensive abyss we created. It is Medicare that's our biggest fiscal problem. A huge future unfunded liability that is paying into a hyper inflating market that neither the ACA or anything before it has addressed.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       10-15-2013, 9:17 AM Reply   
Since this is now the ACA thread can someone give an actual number as to how affordable it is to Jason's employees. I'm not trolling, if no one knows that's cool too, just wondering.

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Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-15-2013, 9:36 AM Reply   
Wes
We just have a different perspective. The republican house has sent yet another proposal and Obama has, again, rejected it. But, you claim that it's part of the house that is holding the nation hostage. I say it's obamas unwillingness to compromise.
I for one, am glad that the tea party is there. The republicans have had a history with Obama of rolling over.
I know that I'm gunna get slammed for this, but I like Cruz. Have you heard his stance on immigration? I think it's perfect.....just what this country needs


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Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-15-2013, 9:41 AM Reply   
John - It's funny, we have been waiting for Kaiser and SHOP to finalize our quotes. They have been so busy talking about the tax credits, that we have not seen the formal quotes yet. I would expect the quotes by the end of the week. I have seen all sorts of $ for individuals, but nothing for the company as a whole yet.

I would love to pay all of my team $20/hour or more, but there is not enough margin to do so. Also like every job, there are starting positions through management. I am sure my company is very similar to most, in that, as you the employee puts in time and gains experience, they are rewarded with wages and/or benefits

I am not sure of the solution and I am not opposed to change as I believe it to be necessary. This is a good place to talk about options and thoughts however.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2013, 10:52 AM Reply   
Boat Driver, check this link.... http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

I just made up some numbers. I'll soon be 58, so I just entered 58 and a sample income of 30K (wouldn't get a subsidy on my actual income), single, no kids, non smoker....

I pay $2500 and the govt subsidizes $4500.

Jason, my point isn't about how much you pay your employees. It's more about having employees that are only able to earn that much and you are against them getting help form the govt for HI.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-15-2013, 12:41 PM Reply   
John, who pays that new $4500 expenditure? Also, what is your deducible? Who says that people can afford the $300 a month that they used to not be able to begin with?

Most people will have to buy a government subsidized plan which puts more pressure on the middle class. That plan is more likely from money the poor people can not afford anyway even if it is "cheap" and the deductible will put that into an emergency only category anyway. Only thing this does is put more pressure on the middle class.

This is not insurance, people are buying maintenance plans.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-15-2013, 12:45 PM Reply   
Also, the ACA was passed and is not law argument is lame. There are plenty of passed laws that don't get funded. That is the power of how government works. How about being angry on the other side. The president (I use that term loosely) has been hand picking winners and losers on who has to abide by said "passed law". He does not have that power to amend a law and he is only doing it to keep the heat off until after the 2014 elections. He knows if the law goes into full effect prior, the democrats will be sunk because he is hand choosing not to make the law effect (as passed) the big business employees who make up the middle class.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2013, 1:15 PM Reply   
Delta, the answer to your first question is in my post. You still don't have to buy the insurance. The fine is very small considering you still have the insurance of an emergency room no matter how poor you are.

The ACA being law argument is only lame if you don't like it. Deal with it. Heathcare is eventually going to be socialized. You've probably been getting socialized heathcare for years as the govt has been paying part of your premiums with a significant tax deduction. I say probably because the "socialization" is not equitable among the population. Depends on who employs you and what kind of plan they have and percentage they pay.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-15-2013, 1:16 PM Reply   
Obamacare is a pos.

You want healthcare move to Canada
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-15-2013, 1:22 PM Reply   
Socialism = Somebody I feel superior to getting the same benefit that I already receive.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2013, 2:34 PM Reply   
Funny how the right spends so much time on the phoney "forced to buy" argument when they really object to the costs of subsidization and no preexisting condition limitation.

Anyone with no insurance can become a drain on the system at any time, so my sympathies are hardly with people who don't want insurance. They are with those who want insurance and can't get it or remotely afford it.
Old    Onthe Creek (onthecreek)      Join Date: Apr 2013       10-15-2013, 3:12 PM Reply   
funny how Obamacare is law and it can't be touched. yet at the same time so are the sequester cuts but those are now being put back on the table by dems. the sequester is even Obama's law much like that signature pile of economic destruction. the sequester cuts were going to be so damaging to the economy yet it was all fear mongering. Obamacare is supposed to be so good but it's such a turd the websites don't even work. after all of this BS with funding the govt and raising the debt ceiling, for anyone to not be scared *****less about the govt being in charge of their healthcare they must be brain dead.

'the govt is paying $4500'....sure pass on the buck to the rest of us. this country is being brought down to the level of government (inefficient, ineffective, over priced, fraudulent) instead of having a smaller govt performing only what's necessary. government is an evil necessity, not a solution.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2013, 4:09 PM Reply   
Since you seem to know so much... What other law funding was intended to be so severely cut that it would have basically made it existence a moot point.

BTW, if you guys are down for a revolution in HC lets hear your ideas. I know how to do it and stated it many times. But quite frankly I don't hear anyone with any ideas. I hear a lot of complaining. If you've got nothing, then bring on universal HC. Capitalist HC is pricing itself out of existence.

The problem is that you need HC laws that fit the population. The more lower income people, the less appropriate our highly regulated overpriced HC is for the population. Moaning isn't the same as answers.
Old    Scott (magicr)      Join Date: May 2004       10-15-2013, 4:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
"for anyone to not be scared *****less about the govt being in charge of their healthcare they must be brain dead"
I don't know, I think most older folks like Medicare, You know, that full on European Socialist program.

Last edited by magicr; 10-15-2013 at 4:32 PM.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-15-2013, 4:35 PM Reply   
Ok, I'll start
Pre existing condition coverage is a good thing.....keep it
Carrying kids on parents insurance is a good thing.....keep it

Now, from my experience:
There needs to be some regulation on costs. The difference in cost between a name brand and generic is ridiculous. Put a cap on it.
The difference in procedure from doc to doc or cash paid vs insurance coverage is crazy....regulate it.
$30 for an aspirin while in the hospital and not allowed to bring approved meds in.....ridiculous. It's almost theft.
There needs to be itemized lists given....mandatory

Law suit settlements......put a cap on it. Give courts more control over frivolous law suits.....again...regulate

I'm also of consistent punishments in criminal cases...

Set up a fund that takes care of the truly needy and elderly. Screen those that apply. No drug users, no felons, no illegals.....sometimes you have to be tough. Don't borrow from this fund....

Same with social security, and all entitlements

Remove illegals from the equation.

The problem with Obama care is that he has said...this is a step towards single payer. He has said that he wants total government health care. The best way to prevent that is to fight it.....fight on Cruz.....fight on!

I'm sure there are tons of other ideas. These are just some that I typed down while cooling down from a workout.....eating right...stretching.....I ought to get a discount for a healthy lifestyle

Obama isn't trustworthy. His/democrats end game isn't revealed. You have to dig for it. Listen to their own words in past speeches.

I don't think a bad idea is good enough just because its a start .....



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Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-15-2013, 4:44 PM Reply   
The "Bill in accounting" example needs some tweeking because Bill's role has been intentionally minimized.

You see, this company has a CEO and two VPs. The CEO can veto rules, but he can't make rules-much like the POTUS. The VPs are called Senate and House and they can make policy. But, only House can initiate spending requests.

Together they vote for a Health Policy. They are allowed to fund it but they don't because they sell it to Board of Directors- who have the right to hire and fire- that it won't cost any money and will in fact save money.

But before the Health policy is in place, House is fired by the Board and House 2nd is put in place with directions to not raise costs. It turns out the health policy will cost a bunch and House 2nd follows his orders. Keep in mind all appropriations must be initiated by House 2nd.

You see the company had the foresight to put in place checks and balances. They intentionally wanted House to control expenditures because it is larger and much more representative of the Board of Directors.

Now who do you fire?
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-15-2013, 4:48 PM Reply   
Also. I disagree with making businesses offer the insurance. Keep it an individual thing. Give businesses a tax incentive if they want to participate. This would ease a lot of the criticism....maybe
Did I mention no exemptions?
Also, the dems sold this to the public and to each other as a penalty based plan. It's not. It's a tax. The court even said it had to be a tax. So, the spirit of the thing didn't survive the court. Obama, like most presidents....lied
I just hunk he ought to stop with the feels good stories of Mary Sue in Vermont, and Tom in Ardmore, and be straight with what it is and what the plan is.....but he can't. Cuz then he wouldn't get the backing....


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Old    Onthe Creek (onthecreek)      Join Date: Apr 2013       10-15-2013, 5:27 PM Reply   
it pains me to call for regulation but one of the biggest problems with healthcare is very similar to higher education's biggest problem. for education, as more money has become available in the form of college loans, costs have skyrocketed. the same is true with healthcare. the prices hospitals can charge insurance companies is obscene and is fueling the problem. putting the govt in control of something like that is only asking for bigger problems. until that fundamental problem is addressed we're all pissing in the wind...just what the career politicians want. nothing suits their agenda more than a fiercely and evenly split populace.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-15-2013, 6:05 PM Reply   
OK, let's keep business out of HI. Remove the tax deduction for HI. Convert the existing employer contribution to pay. Allow the employee to purchase anywhere he wants or not at all. Keep the exchanges and everyone can shop there. The result... a highly competitive environment because it's likely a lot of people will just say no to HI if the cost is too high.

Second, make a law that states a HC provider charge the same price for the same procedure to every customer. That will do away with $30 aspirin. It will also allow people who self insure to get the same best price any HI company gets. No more fake billing prices. I've seen a 10:1 ratio between what's billed and what my HI pays.

HI is already mandatory and that is making it expensive. Your employee contribution is "use it or lose it". Your tax deduction contribution is "use it or lose it". Take away those two incentives and see how willing the public is to pay for HI price increases.

You'll notice the only regulation needed is for price gouging. Giving the public the choice with their pocketbook is the revolution.

Last edited by fly135; 10-15-2013 at 6:08 PM.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-15-2013, 6:46 PM Reply   

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