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Old    Callum Chad (Shavo9)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-11-2013, 10:39 PM Reply   
So I have been debating for a while about boats now and for people that didnt see my other post im looking for,

- Versatile wakes, (18-24mph wakes that are clean not to steep etc but can also be loaded up!)
- Decent rough water ride
- Use in saltwater

I love everything about mastercraft but the X-25 seems to be an issue about the steepness and cleanliness of the wakes at low speed which is not good for beginners to intermediate obviously.

Axis from personal experience seems to be a great versatile wake and although X-25 isnt out of my budget im think that the wake may be better (versatility wise) and also much easier on the budget, main concern about the Axis is Rough water ride and saltwater quality? how will it last with a little bit of use in salt water

opinions and even other options greatly appreciated
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-12-2013, 1:02 AM Reply   
I can only speak for the A22. I use mine in salt water 100% of the time. It is 2 years old and as of yesterday has 426 hours on it. I have some friends with all different brands and it seems anything with a touch screen or digital requires a lot more maintenance. We wash and flush our engine every time after use. The only issues I have had is with ballast pumps. They do not last as long in saltwater. The Axis is a great all around boat. I have young kids and all of them can ride behind the A22. I can get a clean wake at around 17 for my youngest and drop the wedge for my 12 year old, set it at 19 and it is perfect for him. We have had it loaded down (1100's) in the back and bow sac full) and it will produce a wake that is sufficient for most humans. I love how you can change the shape of the already nice wake with the wedge. The surf wave behind it isnt bad IMO. In the channel to and from our riding spot it can get rough 2-3 foot swells and it handles them fine. It is a very simple yet functional boat. I am in the market for a new one and have looked at the big 3 plus MB and have decided on an A24.
Old    Callum Chad (Shavo9)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-12-2013, 5:58 AM Reply   
I'm thinking that the the surf gate should greatly help the surf wave regardless and make it at least sufficient? What are the benefits you see in the 24 opposed to 22?
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-12-2013, 7:28 AM Reply   
18-24mph will be fine in the x25. Low speed is fine with 0 ballast. Actually, a little front weight helps to mellow out a beginner wake. Forget anything below 18 mph though. Which I feel is a moot point anyhow..... The first thing, every beginner should learn, is to get confident with board control, and ride at 20+. Why the heck are beginners so worried about a clean wake? Why try to jump the wake, when you don't even have board control or the ability to ride at 20+ yet??

Nonetheless, If the only choices are these 2 boats, and the wallet doesn't care about the price of the X25.....go with the X25. That being said, there are a couple other boats, out there, that would suit your needs better. Especially if an X25 is in budget...... Being as you are talking saltwater though, I would probably go MC. Last I checked, they had the best saltwater package.
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-12-2013, 12:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shavo9 View Post
I'm thinking that the the surf gate should greatly help the surf wave regardless and make it at least sufficient? What are the benefits you see in the 24 opposed to 22?
I have 5 kids and usually with them and all their friends who like to come things get a little snug. I would like a little more room is the only reason for the A24.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-12-2013, 12:48 PM Reply   
1. is preferrence but the A22 has a more mellow beginner wake and cleaner at slower speeds. (eric, this is important to those of us with 4 year olds, or teaching little kids to ride, having wash on the wake makes learning to cross the wake a lot more difficult, so if you can have a wake that is clean at 16-17 as opposed to 18-19, that is a HUGE deal when it comes to beginners and little kids). As far as loading it up, just keep adding weight and as long as your motor / prop combo can handle it, the boat can handle it... in fact, it loves it.

2. x-25 wins, deeper V, cuts through chop better.

3. I think the A22 has a saltwater option, and I know the X25 does.

result of your 3 parameters = tie.
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-12-2013, 12:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
18-24mph will be fine in the x25. Low speed is fine with 0 ballast. Actually, a little front weight helps to mellow out a beginner wake. Forget anything below 18 mph though. Which I feel is a moot point anyhow..... The first thing, every beginner should learn, is to get confident with board control, and ride at 20+. Why the heck are beginners so worried about a clean wake? Why try to jump the wake, when you don't even have board control or the ability to ride at 20+ yet??

Nonetheless, If the only choices are these 2 boats, and the wallet doesn't care about the price of the X25.....go with the X25. That being said, there are a couple other boats, out there, that would suit your needs better. Especially if an X25 is in budget...... Being as you are talking saltwater though, I would probably go MC. Last I checked, they had the best saltwater package.
I disagree on the 20 mph. All my children ride below 20 and they have excellent board control. I feel when you are teaching children how to ride the slower the better. Their ages are 11, 9, and 7. My 7 year old can do basic W2W 180s and both HS and TS jumps. 20 MPH is fast for that little guy. Also when my older ones started to learn inverts I slowed it down until they got the feel for it. Doing that IMO helped them gain the confidence to learn the trick without taking a hard stack. Also out of curiosity what makes MC have the best saltwater package?
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-12-2013, 1:58 PM Reply   
Ya guys, I didn't really think about young kids, and you have a very valid point there...... If you wanna tow in the 16-18mph range, the x25 wouldn't be the preferable boat.

As far as a preferable saltwater package goes-
MC has tinned wiring, instead of just tinned connectors. MC is more comprehensive with sacrificial anodes, and grounding crucial components. All aluminum parts are anodized, and hydraulic steering is another major bonus on their saltwater package. Now, I am not 100% sure that axis doesn't use any of that stuff, but last I checked, they didn't. All of those things wouldn't make a difference on freshwater but will save a lot of future headaches on saltwater.

Last edited by Fixable; 09-12-2013 at 2:05 PM.
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       09-12-2013, 2:39 PM Reply   
One boat is built well and comfortable, the other is not built as well or as comfortable. I'll leave it up to you as to which is which,,,,,
Old    Bryan James (bjames)      Join Date: May 2012       09-12-2013, 2:51 PM Reply   
I cant speak about the Axis, but i have owned two X 25's (2011 & 2012). For versatility, the boat is good. For Wakeboard wake, IMO the wake is steap and failry abrupt. I recently went from the X25 to an 09 Xstar an couldnt be happier. For some reason I always had a problem with the steepness of the X25 wake. The more ballast you throw at it the larger (and steeper) the wake is. Its great for pop, but you have to be carefull.

At 18mph (no less), I found the wake to be more tame with empty ballast and surf tabs all the way up.

Best advise is to go out and try both, and ask the dealer if you can ride behind both. Im sure that will help make your decision.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-12-2013, 3:21 PM Reply   
I have no experience with either boat but have a ton of experience in salt water. I would definitely get the A22 for saltwater because how simple the boat it. Salt gets into every thread on the interior and the axis has a very basic interior design where every seat pulls out. Not to mention, if a seat needs to be re-upholstered, its just a square design. If you trailer the boat to the water like I do, the whole sacrificial anodes etc is pretty pointless. The main things I would want on a salt boat it, closed cooling, dry bilge, galvanized or aluminum trailer, and the least amount of metal parts and electronics as possible. Just remember, the less the boat has, the less amount of maintenance you have to do.

In salt, the main thing that goes to trash is the trailer. But you said it would only see a little bit of salt water use, so all this really doesn't matter. If you only use it in salt a few times, and are pretty consistent at washing your boat every time, a normal boat would work just fine.

However, the a22 and x-25 have a pretty big price jump between the two. I would go for the a22 but Im also coming from a 2001 tige so even the cheap axis is luxury to me.
Old     (JetRanger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       09-12-2013, 6:39 PM Reply   
What a ridiculous question! Comparing a Mastercraft to an Axis is like comparing a Tige to a MB!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-12-2013, 7:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetRanger View Post
What a ridiculous question! Comparing a Mastercraft to an Axis is like comparing a Tige to a MB!
Wait, so are you recommending supreme or moomba?
Old    Mason Obray (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       09-12-2013, 9:56 PM Reply   
In this case, the X-25 is a non-factor. A22 all the way.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       09-12-2013, 10:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCObray View Post
In this case, the X-25 is a non-factor. A22 all the way.
Explain!?!?!?!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-13-2013, 3:41 AM Reply   
A22 for most reasons listed above.

As far as "build quality" goes, they're equal. I had the privilege of hand flexing nearly every boat hull there at expo. MC fit and finish will be better though
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-13-2013, 4:44 AM Reply   
No way is the A22 built better than a x-25 but both boats do perform the same functions, which is throwing wakes. And both will easily last 5yrs or more running in salt. From everything the OP has said though I would lean towards the A22. Reason being is no matter what boat it is your going to take a serious beating on depreciation by running it in salt. It just makes more financial sense to destroy the cheap boat.
Old    Preston (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-13-2013, 10:43 AM Reply   
I agree with Ron from above. Axis is not build as well as Malibu, so thinking it is as well built as MC is laughable. Perfect example is that Malibu has a shoebox fit that is glued and screwed where Axis does not have the shoebox fit. The deck and hull have a lip that sits on each other. it is screwed together and covered by the rubrail. This is a cost cutting measure.

A better comparision would be between X25 and Malibu 22MXZ.
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-13-2013, 12:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
I agree with Ron from above. Axis is not build as well as Malibu, so thinking it is as well built as MC is laughable. Perfect example is that Malibu has a shoebox fit that is glued and screwed where Axis does not have the shoebox fit. The deck and hull have a lip that sits on each other. it is screwed together and covered by the rubrail. This is a cost cutting measure.

A better comparision would be between X25 and Malibu 22MXZ.
FYI the 2014 A24 is now a shoebox fit. Not that I am in anyway trying to get in a conversation about built quality of a price point boat compared to a luxury boat.
Old    Parker Frost (waketowake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-13-2013, 12:30 PM Reply   
I have a mastercraft 07 x star saltwater series with the captain crusader engine. I ride in salt 100% of the time as well. The first time my boat touched freshwater was the other day when i took it to a river. The only problem ive had was with the exhaust manifolds which I replaced last year. I love axis and all other wake boats, but i would go with the 25. I believe the 25 is the same hull as the csx which in MC commercials was blasting through the gulf of mexico(which is where I live), but i would never dream of taking my boat out there, or an axis. Saltwater is super hard on boats so i would definitely go with the better built boat.
Old    Ty (wakeandsnow27)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-13-2013, 3:19 PM Reply   
I'd personally rather have an A22 with surf gate and use some of the savings on a killer stereo and extra ballast.
Old    Bryan James (bjames)      Join Date: May 2012       09-17-2013, 7:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCObray View Post
In this case, the X-25 is a non-factor. A22 all the way.
Anyone know the story behind this???? Looks like they are trying to pull the boat back into the water.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       09-17-2013, 7:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjames View Post
Anyone know the story behind this???? Looks like they are trying to pull the boat back into the water.
Local river that is affected by tide changes. Looks like they beached it on high tide. Pretty sure that rope wouldn't get it, look how shallow the prop is.
Old    dan (doubleup_dan)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-17-2013, 8:47 AM Reply   
X25 all the way I own one and it is one of the best wakes I have ever ridden.

The attitude plate is a must for auto launch and I run mine with the plate at 60% with 4000 lbs. Wake is as good/better then a slammed 2011 Xstar. Very similar wake shape with a little bit more lip but not steep at all!

Also the best stock wake I have ever seen also using attitude plate at 60%
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-17-2013, 9:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleup_dan View Post
X25 all the way I own one and it is one of the best wakes I have ever ridden.

The attitude plate is a must for auto launch and I run mine with the plate at 60% with 4000 lbs. Wake is as good/better then a slammed 2011 Xstar. Very similar wake shape with a little bit more lip but not steep at all!

Also the best stock wake I have ever seen also using attitude plate at 60%
Dan I wanna give the x-25 another try. Couple ?'s, how are you putting 4k in the x-25? What's your setup? What line length and speed? Also what motor you using with 4k? Do you have pro package? Thanks
Old    dan (doubleup_dan)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-17-2013, 9:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Dan I wanna give the x-25 another try. Couple ?'s, how are you putting 4k in the x-25? What's your setup? What line length and speed? Also what motor you using with 4k? Do you have pro package? Thanks
I have the the x2 fly high kit which is the 2 rear sacs and a u shaped sac that I put on top of the seats in the nose as there isn't much space under the seats up there. Then I put a large sac in the walkway and then a medium size sac on the floor by the rear seat. I ride 78 feet at 24mph and always use the attitude plate at 60%.

I have the 6.0 ilmor and with auto launch it gets up to speed quite fast for home much weight I have. I have the the pro package and I run a 14.5x14.25 prop.


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Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-23-2013, 7:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleup_dan View Post
I have the the x2 fly high kit which is the 2 rear sacs and a u shaped sac that I put on top of the seats in the nose as there isn't much space under the seats up there. Then I put a large sac in the walkway and then a medium size sac on the floor by the rear seat. I ride 78 feet at 24mph and always use the attitude plate at 60%.

I have the 6.0 ilmor and with auto launch it gets up to speed quite fast for home much weight I have. I have the the pro package and I run a 14.5x14.25 prop.


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Did you install the high fly kit yourself?
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-23-2013, 8:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleup_dan View Post
I have the the x2 fly high kit which is the 2 rear sacs and a u shaped sac that I put on top of the seats in the nose as there isn't much space under the seats up there. Then I put a large sac in the walkway and then a medium size sac on the floor by the rear seat. I ride 78 feet at 24mph and always use the attitude plate at 60%.

I have the 6.0 ilmor and with auto launch it gets up to speed quite fast for home much weight I have. I have the the pro package and I run a 14.5x14.25 prop.


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First off let me say I agree with the statement that a loaded up 25 is just as good as the 03-11 Star. All those sacs laying around the boat what room is left? I run a fly high on top of my bow area as well so I get that. However compare all those sacs having to be filled by hand and taking up space to everything hidden and plumbed from factory on an Axis. Add in surfgate and an adjustable wake that can be as lippy and steep as you like or super mellowed out for newbs. Makes a decision bit tougher.

Last edited by xstarrider; 09-23-2013 at 8:46 AM.
Old    dan (doubleup_dan)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-25-2013, 7:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToPHeR35 View Post
Did you install the high fly kit yourself?
I just use the sacs and don't have them plumbed in as they are from my old boat. Though I have plumber sacs in before and it is very simple


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Old    dan (doubleup_dan)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-25-2013, 7:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Add in surfgate and an adjustable wake that can be as lippy and steep as you like or super mellowed out for newbs. Makes a decision bit tougher.
The attitude plate has the same effect to mellow or steepen up the wake, and the master craft surf tabs are good for surfing too.


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