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Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-29-2013, 10:39 AM Reply   
ok so im trying to jupm w2w heal side, and so far im casing the other side of the wake. im so close that its bugging me!!! any tips on getting my accross the wake and not casing it? thanks
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-29-2013, 12:31 PM Reply   
how fast are you going rope length and boat will help.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-29-2013, 1:00 PM Reply   
good edge out, not too hard
progressive edge toward wake
hold handle close to your hip
fully extend legs as you go over the wake
keep rope in
Old    Jon Doe (Kane)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-29-2013, 2:18 PM Reply   
Can you post a video?
It's easier to see areas where you need to tweak when we can see your riding.
Old    Cole Parkhurst (Cpark)      Join Date: Apr 2013       09-03-2013, 8:25 AM Reply   
Think of it this way. On a motorcycle you don't pin it from 15ft from the jump, you keep a slower edge then edge hard all the way through the wake. I had this problem too a while ago and always cased the wake, but after taking some lessons with The Cobra it all made sense. Hope this helps!!
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-03-2013, 10:02 AM Reply   
I agree with everything above. One thing I noticed this weekend behind my X2 is when I ride at 60 ft 21mph I clear the wake no problems....Then I bumped it up to 65 ft and I couldn't get as much speed coming into the wake...I don't know if it's because I'm still riding the 2010 Ibex or maybe I need to increase the speed a little bit for the 65ft?
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-03-2013, 10:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
how fast are you going rope length and boat will help.
im riding behind an MB B52 widebody. love the boat. im at 55ft going 21-21.5
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-03-2013, 10:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane View Post
Can you post a video?
It's easier to see areas where you need to tweak when we can see your riding.
i can try this weekend when im out. ill have my dad post it for me
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-03-2013, 10:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpark View Post
Think of it this way. On a motorcycle you don't pin it from 15ft from the jump, you keep a slower edge then edge hard all the way through the wake. I had this problem too a while ago and always cased the wake, but after taking some lessons with The Cobra it all made sense. Hope this helps!!
ok. i never really got into motorcycling but i know what you mean. i love motocross. i might be taking lessons from Derek Cook soon with my family and family friends. Thanks
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-03-2013, 10:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToPHeR35 View Post
I agree with everything above. One thing I noticed this weekend behind my X2 is when I ride at 60 ft 21mph I clear the wake no problems....Then I bumped it up to 65 ft and I couldn't get as much speed coming into the wake...I don't know if it's because I'm still riding the 2010 Ibex or maybe I need to increase the speed a little bit for the 65ft?
i ride a Slingshot Pearl with Faith Hope Love bindings from Ronix and that board is amazing. the first time jumping i was on a liquid force Luna.i fella hella hard on my back came half way outta my bindings and had the worse headache ever and didnt ride the rest of the day
Old    August (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-03-2013, 10:13 AM Reply   
hold your edge until you are airborne. just once try pretending there is no wake (there is no spoon) and you are just cutting over to the other side of the boat.
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-03-2013, 11:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolover1418 View Post
i ride a Slingshot Pearl with Faith Hope Love bindings from Ronix and that board is amazing. the first time jumping i was on a liquid force Luna.i fella hella hard on my back came half way outta my bindings and had the worse headache ever and didnt ride the rest of the day
Just wait for the 360 attempts when you spin too early and you get pulled forward and land on your back/head after flying through the air....
Old     (Orange)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-03-2013, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToPHeR35 View Post
I agree with everything above. One thing I noticed this weekend behind my X2 is when I ride at 60 ft 21mph I clear the wake no problems....Then I bumped it up to 65 ft and I couldn't get as much speed coming into the wake...I don't know if it's because I'm still riding the 2010 Ibex or maybe I need to increase the speed a little bit for the 65ft?
It is most definitively NOT the board. The Ibex is a poppy board, though because it is an aggressive three stage rocker it can be a little inconsistent and will react differently to small changes in how you hit the wake.

With proper technique you should be able to clear w2w at 65' and 21 mph, but if you hit the wake exactly the same way at 65' as you did at 60' you'd fall a few feet short of the second wake because the wakes are probably 2-3' further apart at that distance. There are three ways you can make it over:

1) increase the boat speed a touch. This will both narrow the wakes and increase the speed you hit the wake, thus making w2w possible again. I don't recommend this for you YET because it will make crashes more painful and dangerous plus it will hide flaws in your technique.

2) keep the boat speed the same, but hit the wake going faster by using the extra rope length to start from farther away from the wake. If you cut in just as hard as you did at 60',you will end up hitting the wake at a higher speed and will carry farther. I would focus on this second... You are still increasing your speed and making crashes worse, but at least this is part of a long term development of being aggressive and using the full swing of the rope. You may actually find that by swinging all the way out before you start your cut you can charge a little LESS aggressively at the wake (or it will seem this way) at 65' than 60' but still build more speed and with better balance.

3) work on your technique. If you are not clearing the wake at 65' and 21 mph I can guarantee you are not hitting and leaving the wake correctly and are killing your pop. Most likely you are absorbing some of the wakes energy with your knees rather than extending. This is by far the best way to fix your problem because improving this core skill will transfer into all other tricks. If you can have somebody take a video of you attempting a w2w jump I bet you will see your knees pulled upwards near waist level on lift off which means you absorbed the wake. You don't have to jump at the wake, but you do need to extend upwards almost like your quickly getting out of a chair to keep from absorbing the wake. Warning - the first few times you do it right you may scare the crap out of yourself and drop the rope as you will go several feet higher.

Both 1 and 2 are just different ways of increasing your speed. I know many people who focus only on speed and never pause to fix their technique. I'd highly recommend fixing technique first as it will transfer to every trick you attempt lat and will permanently allow you to use the lowest boat speed required to do your trick - could prevent a major injury.
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-04-2013, 7:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
It is most definitively NOT the board. The Ibex is a poppy board, though because it is an aggressive three stage rocker it can be a little inconsistent and will react differently to small changes in how you hit the wake.

With proper technique you should be able to clear w2w at 65' and 21 mph, but if you hit the wake exactly the same way at 65' as you did at 60' you'd fall a few feet short of the second wake because the wakes are probably 2-3' further apart at that distance. There are three ways you can make it over:

1) increase the boat speed a touch. This will both narrow the wakes and increase the speed you hit the wake, thus making w2w possible again. I don't recommend this for you YET because it will make crashes more painful and dangerous plus it will hide flaws in your technique.

2) keep the boat speed the same, but hit the wake going faster by using the extra rope length to start from farther away from the wake. If you cut in just as hard as you did at 60',you will end up hitting the wake at a higher speed and will carry farther. I would focus on this second... You are still increasing your speed and making crashes worse, but at least this is part of a long term development of being aggressive and using the full swing of the rope. You may actually find that by swinging all the way out before you start your cut you can charge a little LESS aggressively at the wake (or it will seem this way) at 65' than 60' but still build more speed and with better balance.

3) work on your technique. If you are not clearing the wake at 65' and 21 mph I can guarantee you are not hitting and leaving the wake correctly and are killing your pop. Most likely you are absorbing some of the wakes energy with your knees rather than extending. This is by far the best way to fix your problem because improving this core skill will transfer into all other tricks. If you can have somebody take a video of you attempting a w2w jump I bet you will see your knees pulled upwards near waist level on lift off which means you absorbed the wake. You don't have to jump at the wake, but you do need to extend upwards almost like your quickly getting out of a chair to keep from absorbing the wake. Warning - the first few times you do it right you may scare the crap out of yourself and drop the rope as you will go several feet higher.

Both 1 and 2 are just different ways of increasing your speed. I know many people who focus only on speed and never pause to fix their technique. I'd highly recommend fixing technique first as it will transfer to every trick you attempt lat and will permanently allow you to use the lowest boat speed required to do your trick - could prevent a major injury.
Thanks! I always thought it was my technique since I start edging in knees bent then straighten them out as I hit the wake. Maybe I'm just not straightening them out quick enough? I will focus on keeping them more straight this weekend. The reason I brought up the Ibex was because others on here have also said the pop is pretty inconsistent on the board. Someone once said that the only person to ever get consistent pop on it was Parks. There are times when I hit the wake and am amazed at how much pop I get and other times where I've felt like it should have been more. One thing I've noticed is that if the water isn't perfect glass, the chances of getting huge pop drop off alot especially with the Ibex since it has a pretty aggressive rocker.
Old     (Orange)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-04-2013, 10:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToPHeR35 View Post
Thanks! I always thought it was my technique since I start edging in knees bent then straighten them out as I hit the wake. Maybe I'm just not straightening them out quick enough? I will focus on keeping them more straight this weekend. The reason I brought up the Ibex was because others on here have also said the pop is pretty inconsistent on the board. Someone once said that the only person to ever get consistent pop on it was Parks. There are times when I hit the wake and am amazed at how much pop I get and other times where I've felt like it should have been more. One thing I've noticed is that if the water isn't perfect glass, the chances of getting huge pop drop off alot especially with the Ibex since it has a pretty aggressive rocker.
The quickest way to diagnose your pop is to have somebody shoot a video of you. You will likely see that you are doing things you didn't realize you were doing, or not doing things you thought you were doing. Most of us lack total body awareness that great athletes seem to have or develop and can't recognize on our own what we are doing right and wrong.

As for the Ibex, I used to ride one though I think mine was an '08 or '09. It is not really any different than any other three stage rocker board in its inconsistency - a little more inconsistent, but easily managed. Before you replace it, try working on your technique for a month - take video and really scrub what you're doing. I bet at the end of the month you like the board better. The Ibex should be plenty good if you want to save yourself some coin, but no denying buying a new board is always fun. I think you'd be better served, however, to focus on your technique and not start a habit that the best way to fix a performance problem is to go out and buy new equipment.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-04-2013, 6:40 PM Reply   
Three stage boards are slower to the wake than continuous rocker boards. I don't think it's the board though. Parks doesn't have any trouble with it. LOL A video will help us all help you. Good Luck!
Old    Michael (sprocketeer)      Join Date: Nov 2012       09-07-2013, 5:10 PM Reply   
I have had the exact same problem of not being able to go w2w. I checked my PP with a GPS and found it a little slow. I bumped my speed up to 21.5 and cleared the wake twice today. I was stoked!!
FYI, I was 21.5 at 60' behind a Supra 20V with maybe 800lbs of ballast.
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-09-2013, 10:15 AM Reply   
my slingshot is not a 3stage rocker. its a flex board. look it up,
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-09-2013, 10:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolover1418 View Post
my slingshot is not a 3stage rocker. its a flex board. look it up,
Your Pearl is a continuous rocker. And yes, it is a flex board.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-09-2013, 11:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolover1418 View Post
my slingshot is not a 3stage rocker. its a flex board. look it up,
I was referring to the Ibex. With a video we can analyze your technique and help you. There are multiple posters asking questions in this thread sorry for the confusion.
Old     (macandcheese)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-09-2013, 12:23 PM Reply   
It's hard to tell without a video. Here's a few things that helped me learn wake to wake.

When I started my edge, I would keep the handle too close to my hips. If I left my arms out a little bit I could create more tension on the rope. Think of if you're sitting on the ground and someone grabs your hands to help you up. You don't keep them close to you, you extend them.

I was also standing tall a little early. The other thing to think about is as you stand tall bring the handle down and in toward your hips.
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-10-2013, 10:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezul View Post
Your Pearl is a continuous rocker. And yes, it is a flex board.
it doesnt feel like it
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-10-2013, 10:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolover1418 View Post
it doesnt feel like it
http://www.evo.com/wakeboards/slings...2013-front.jpg

That should give you the info you need about your board.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-10-2013, 6:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolover1418 View Post
it doesnt feel like it
What other boards have you ridden? That would let us know what your comparing it to.
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-11-2013, 3:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
What other boards have you ridden? That would let us know what your comparing it to.
i used to ride a liquid force luna
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-11-2013, 4:09 PM Reply   
Either board should be easy to clear the wake at your speed and rope length.Like was said earlier a video would help tons.Then we can see if you need slight technique tweaks.Also we can see how clean the wake is.
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-12-2013, 12:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Either board should be easy to clear the wake at your speed and rope length.Like was said earlier a video would help tons.Then we can see if you need slight technique tweaks.Also we can see how clean the wake is.
I've always felt that the wake has been my problem. I'm 5'10 200lbs and ride behind an 08 X2. The problem is the X2 only came with 500lbs of ballast in 08 and then they upped it to 900 in 09.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2013, 6:16 PM Reply   
It's not the wake if it's clean.At 21 mph and 55' rope most wakes are going to be 6' to 10' wide at most.
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-12-2013, 6:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
It's not the wake if it's clean.At 21 mph and 55' rope most wakes are going to be 6' to 10' wide at most.
This is at 65 Ft I think?

Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-13-2013, 3:27 AM Reply   
That wake looks very easy to clear even at the 65' rope length.
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-13-2013, 7:54 AM Reply   
I can clear it, but not easily and not consistent. When I take lessons, the guys use a SAN 210 with about 1,500#s and I put half the amount of energy into my cut to get twice as high behind that boat. Behind the X2 it's like I have to take a super aggressive cut almost like I'm throwing a tantrum or backroll into the flats just to build up enough speed to come down on the outside of the other wake. I naturally right switch so that picture is me doing a HS FS 360 coming from the right side of the pic and IMO it doesn't look like I'm getting high enough to throw that trick.

Judging by the picture, is the wake just not rampy enough for an aggressive 3 stage board like the Ibex? Would I be better suited with a continuous rocker board like a Bill or William? Or maybe I should put more weight on my back foot on the takeoff so I pop more straight up and down? If I do that, then I know I won't clear the wake on the landing though.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-13-2013, 1:18 PM Reply   
Post a video and we will be able to help you.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-13-2013, 3:01 PM Reply   
your board is not going to make a difference in terms of your wake to wake abilities rather just the feel of it under your feet.

i dont know how to go "heal" side so i wont offer any advice
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-13-2013, 5:16 PM Reply   
On a FS 360 you use mostly legs and not a lot of edge. At 65 ft. There isn't a boat out there that should be hard to clear the wake. I regularly do BS 360's on a unweighted wake at 75'.Although it's much easier at 70'.How far do you cut out away from the wake when doing this trick? You want to allow yourself plenty of time to build speed without a lot of edge and line tension.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-14-2013, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToPHeR35 View Post
This is at 65 Ft I think?

It looks like you're going 20-21 in this pic?
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-14-2013, 3:52 PM Reply   
yep, 21mph. Lake is kinda small so you can only turn left at the corners and it's got a piece of shoreline that sticks out a little too much just to the left of the pic which is why the driver is kind of veering left here LOL!!

Actually went back out today at 60ft and stomped it first hit. I really stressed keeping the handle close combined with the "sitting in a chair" feeling while keeping my chest over my toes edging in and cleared every time. Think pop first before you let yourself think actual trick is also helpful.

Now on to the blind 180 and consistent toeside cuts....

Last edited by ToPHeR35; 09-14-2013 at 4:00 PM.
Old    Nate (NATE1979)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-14-2013, 7:39 PM Reply   
Being a 200 lb guy as well, I can tell you that you that getting good pop is a lot harder than someone weighing 160.

The handle needs to stay in and the stand up motion needs to be exaggerated. More speed and more ballast will help too. You create more drag than a smaller person, so for the same edge, your approach will be slower. Speed up the boat and add weight and you will hit the same size wake and same approach speed as a smaller rider.

Before some smaller person convinces you of how easy it should be, ask them if they have tried with a 40# sand bag on their back.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-15-2013, 3:07 AM Reply   
Ask Rusty Malinoski if weighing 200 plus pounds has held him back.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-15-2013, 5:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by NATE1979 View Post
Being a 200 lb guy as well, I can tell you that you that getting good pop is a lot harder than someone weighing 160.

The handle needs to stay in and the stand up motion needs to be exaggerated. More speed and more ballast will help too. You create more drag than a smaller person, so for the same edge, your approach will be slower. Speed up the boat and add weight and you will hit the same size wake and same approach speed as a smaller rider.

Before some smaller person convinces you of how easy it should be, ask them if they have tried with a 40# sand bag on their back.
More like ask the BIG guy of he's riding the same size board? If not stop making excuses about your weight. You don't mind the weight advantage when playing football! Little guys just play harder and do better because of more effort and training.Technique is the real key to Wakeboarding ,not size.
Old    Chris Gawenda (ToPHeR35)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-15-2013, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by NATE1979 View Post
Being a 200 lb guy as well, I can tell you that you that getting good pop is a lot harder than someone weighing 160.

The handle needs to stay in and the stand up motion needs to be exaggerated. More speed and more ballast will help too. You create more drag than a smaller person, so for the same edge, your approach will be slower. Speed up the boat and add weight and you will hit the same size wake and same approach speed as a smaller rider.

Before some smaller person convinces you of how easy it should be, ask them if they have tried with a 40# sand bag on their back.
We've talked about this many times on the boat. My cousin is the only other person that rides with me and he weighs 160lbs tops and rides an older Watson board and he gets crazy pop! But he is also an avid skateboarder which prolly helps.

Wakeboarding is my only board sport.
Old    Allie Christman (evolover1418)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-16-2013, 10:00 AM Reply   
Hey this my my thread... Not ur. I asked for help for me, now ya'll are helping others and not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-16-2013, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolover1418 View Post
Hey this my my thread... Not ur. I asked for help for me, now ya'll are helping others and not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Send a video and we can help you. Then we can see your approach and your take-off. That will enable us to suggest adjustments.
Old    Andrew Wilson (awakewilson)      Join Date: Sep 2013       09-17-2013, 7:22 AM Reply   
I was at that point for a wile. You really just have to push your self and go all out to clear it for your first time. Until you can land it, you will be holding back and not giving it your biggest effort. Keep on tying man. Good luck!
Old    Nate (NATE1979)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-18-2013, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToPHeR35 View Post
We've talked about this many times on the boat. My cousin is the only other person that rides with me and he weighs 160lbs tops and rides an older Watson board and he gets crazy pop! But he is also an avid skateboarder which prolly helps.

Wakeboarding is my only board sport.
No excuses.. I'm 6'4" tall.

I am just saying that for him to hit the same approach speed as his smaller buddies, he needs to cut harder or the boat needs to go faster.

For me going from 21 to 22.5 made a huge difference on my pop with no change in my approach. I let out more rope and added ballast to keep the wake nearly the same.

BTW watch Rusty cut, and watch Harley cut. You tell me who is working harder...
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-18-2013, 3:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by NATE1979 View Post
No excuses.. I'm 6'4" tall.

I am just saying that for him to hit the same approach speed as his smaller buddies, he needs to cut harder or the boat needs to go faster.

For me going from 21 to 22.5 made a huge difference on my pop with no change in my approach. I let out more rope and added ballast to keep the wake nearly the same.

BTW watch Rusty cut, and watch Harley cut. You tell me who is working harder...
Rusty is on a longer line and rides faster.Harley rides at 65' and 22mph so he can get in more tricks on the same length run. Less pressure to get them in too.
Old    Nate (NATE1979)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-21-2013, 9:29 AM Reply   
^^ This is my point. Rusty rides at 82.5 feet & 24.6 MPH.

Heavier folks need more speed and more line.

Downside = crashes suck more..
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-21-2013, 10:35 AM Reply   
Get some video up and let us disect it.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       09-21-2013, 11:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by NATE1979 View Post
^^ This is my point. Rusty rides at 82.5 feet & 24.6 MPH.

Heavier folks need more speed and more line.

Downside = crashes suck more..
Uhhh I think I do ok at 200lbs and 22.5 mph....
Attached Images
 
Old    Cas Marks (CasMarks)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-21-2013, 2:32 PM Reply   
Someone post the video of Sean Kilgus (I think...) riding and no one will say you can't clear the wake if you are over 200 lbs anymore.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-21-2013, 5:42 PM Reply   
The only reason I feel better riding when I'm 185 vs 195 is that - omg - I'm actually in shape! Lean mean and ready to take a shot or squiggle out of a sketchy landing. Do big guys have it tougher - not if that's how they''re built and they're in shape... Wakeboarding is one of the most physically demanding sports to consistently perform at a high level - IE pro. There is a LOT going on with different muscles doing different moves

Look at Rusty, he's got his own Xfit gym at his house. The guy is a monster. It looks like he's working harder when he rides, because he is trying to go as big and stylish as possible, not because he weighs 220 or 235 or whatever...

Look at when Darrin rode back in the day. Dude is like 5-4 or 5-3, 155lbs. He's JACKED, not some 160 whip like guys are talking about above. He worked harder than anyone on his cuts, and consequently, went bigger than almost everyone else...

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